US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[JoeKitchen]

The fact is that the Dems wanted to give the unemployed more and the Reps in congress refused. So somehow this is the Dem's fault? And last I read the constitution, money could not be spent without congressional authorization so Trump's action is blatantly unconstitutional, as even a Rep senator has said. But he may yet get away with it as almost all the Rep congressmen and all too many judges have their lips glued firmly to his ass.

I think some more aid to the unemployed is a good thing, but from Trump it is one of the most blatant vote-buying acts in history.

Just like DACA was with Obama, unconstitutional and vote buying.  And don't forget, just a few weeks ago the Supreme Court, with its DACA ruling, cemented the precedent that presidents can do unconstitutional acts and we cant stop them until all of the administration actions are taken (with every t crossed and i dotted on our part).  Unintended consequences of TDS, got to love them. 

To be honest though, I dont like any of this, including the additional money for the unemployed.  The extra $600 per week made it so 4 out of 5 workers in the US were getting more staying home then working.  It has been documented that many employers could not reopen since their employees wanted to stay on unemployment.  This is just not healthy for the economy and I feel it should have just been ended. 

Insofar as these unconstitutional edicts, which they are, the Dems really dont have any way to fight it.  Politically it was a brilliant move, especially since McConnell endorsed it, even if I dont like it.  The Dems no longer have any bargaining power, since this shields the Republicans.  If the Dems sue to stop Trump, they will be screwing over average Americans in an election year, not a good look.  All they can do is piss and moan, which only helps the Republican narrative that they purposely sabotaged the bill for their own pet projects. 


I should note, I know quite a few moderate Dems that are becoming disenfranchised with the party over stuff like this, and the lockdowns.  My wife recently went to her Dentist, who is a Democrat, and he was just demoralized by everything party has been doing.  Now, I am not saying that all of these moderate will vote for Trump, but I would not be surprised if they  just stayed home.  The notion on the left that there is such a exhaust with  Trump that the Dems can do anything they want and still win is a false notion. 

[faberryman]

Why Frank, thanks so much for showing you care enough to look this up!  I'm going to live high on this for the rest of the week.   

Yeah, I had a cup of coffee and it kept nagging at me so I looked it up. I just wanted to make sure my memory wasn't failing me. I got up way too early this morning.

[faberryman]

This should be interesting. Right up your alley Joe.

Judge orders Trump campaign to produce evidence of voter fraud in Pennsylvania

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/trump-campaign-voter-fraud-lawsuit-pennsylvania/index.html

[TechTalk]

I also got the impression from the media that she is half Indian (not American Indian), and half 'Black African', because her father emigrated to the US from Jamaica where most of the population is of African descent, because of the slaves imported by the British.

Kamala Harris is mixed race of Indian and African-Jamaican heritage born in America. Spain was the first to colonize Jamaica in the early 1500s and to import slaves from Africa. The Spanish colonists did not bring women in the first expeditions. The start of a Jamaican mixed race population begins over 500 years ago. When the British invaded in 1655, Jamaica's entire population consisted of around 2,500 people. By 1800, there were over 250,000 African slaves working plantations. The British were responsible for the dramatic expansion of population in Jamaica thru importation of slaves, but the roots extend further back. Due to the exploitation of female slaves, there was a proliferation of mixed race slaves. There was a classification system for this. Here's a couple of pages from a 1798 history listing their classifications... https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/the-history-civil-and-commercial-of-the-west-indies

However, Kamala doesn't have the appearance of being half 'African American', and her father, Professor Donald Harris, doesn't have the appearance of being a 'Black African'.

I have no idea what you expect in the appearance of mixed race people. Kamala Harris is of Indian/African-Jamaican heritage. Her father is African-Jamaican.

A search on the internet revealed that Kamala's father has previously stated that he is descended from Hamilton Brown who was a 'white' slave owner in the British colony of Jamaica, so the question remains, 'does Kamala Harris have any African associations in her DNA?'

There is no question. None. Since appearances matter to you, here's a picture of baby Kamala sitting on her great-grandmother's lap...  https://www.jamaicaglobalonline.com/2018/10/2.-Miss-Iris-with-her-greatgranddaughter-Kamala-©-Donald-J  and here's her other paternal great-grandmother...  https://www.jamaicaglobalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/miss_chrishy

If she is appealing to African American voters, this is surely an issue, and I would suggest that Kamala, and/or her father, clarify this issue.

There is no issue and nothing to clarify.

If they cover it up, it will be fuel for the opposition.

There is nothing to cover up.

it will be fuel for the opposition.

Undoubtedly. It will be used as fuel for the conspiracy minded by extreme right-wing media. In fact, it already is.

[JoeKitchen]

This should be interesting. Right up your alley Joe.

Judge orders Trump campaign to produce evidence of voter fraud in Pennsylvania

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/trump-campaign-voter-fraud-lawsuit-pennsylvania/index.html

I'm more of a Hanlon's razor kind of guy and not one to go along with the voter fraud narrative.  However, like I alluded to before, the logistical nightmare mail in voting will produce with such short notice is more likely then not, which is not fraud.  If you need evidence this will happen, just look to NYC recent primary.  It is going to be 2000 all over again, only in multiple states this time.  Should be fun, having Thanksgiving without yet knowing who won. 

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."


What I ultimately think will happen is that many more Dems will vote by mail with many more Republicans will vote in person, which will create two positives for Reps.  First, since states are not having as many polling places as usuals, there will be long lines.  Since Dems are not really enthusiastic about Biden, there will a decent amount of Dems who just choose not to vote over the wait time.  However, since so many Republicans are enthusiastic, the vast majority will vote.  Second, in a couple of the swing states, counting the mail in ballots will become a nightmare with the courts ultimately coming and invalidating a large percentage of votes, just like in NYC.  Since so many more Dems are voting by mail, this will hurt the left and cause Trump to win on a technicality.  Oh yeah, throw in the acquittal of Derek Chauvin since it is now obvious he was overcharged with 2nd degree murder and should have been charge with manslaughter. 

Shortly thereafter, we will descend into Hell. 

[faberryman]

It is going to be 2000 all over again, only in multiple states this time.  Should be fun, having Thanksgiving without yet knowing who won.

I definitely don't want to be watching some guy's eyes bug out over hanging chads for hours on end again. I really don't need to know anything on November 3rd. What is another couple of weeks anyway. People are too impatient. Got to have everything yesterday. Mad if the stuff they ordered from Amazon on Sunday morning isn't there by 5:00 pm. The only problem is that it screws up cable news coverage. They've got the big board up and nothing to say. So they say nothing with as many words as possible.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Except for Egypt and Jordan who signed a peace treaty with Israel years ago, the rest of the Arab countries have been in a defacto war with Israel since one of the earlier actual wars.

For most of the time, de jure, not de facto (two words): no fighting.

Jeremy

[Jeremy Roussak]

Yes, I'm back.  Jeremy R was kind enough to give me a week off after my heated remarks about James (I believe), and then I decided to give myself another month.

Nothing's changed, has it?

Jeremy

[faberryman]

For most of the time, de jure, not de facto (two words): no fighting.

In this case, it is neither. There was no fighting because there was no war.

[TechTalk]

This will be the first presidential election since 1982 in which the Republican Party has not been bound by a Federal Court Consent Decree which limited their election security and polling place activities without first getting permission from the court. This stems from a 1981 DNC lawsuit over minority voter suppression and polling place intimidation activities by the Republican Party in a New Jersey gubernatorial election. As a historical side-note, Roger Stone was the Republican campaign manager. Because the Republican National Committee organized the voter caging and armed patrols outside of polling places, the decree was enforced nationwide.

https://theconversation.com/armed-poll-watchers-new-jerseys-cautionary-tale-ahead-of-the-2020-presidential-election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_Security_Task_Force

The Federal Court Decree expired at the end of 2017. It will be interesting to see how that plays out in November.

[Chris Kern]

And how would that solve the rather large number of ballots that were invalidated because people just forgot to sign them?  Oh yes, that's right, the Dems also want to not just make it so you dont need any ID, but that you also dont even need to sign ballots anymore.

Signatures are an essential requirement for mail-in ballots not only to deter potential fraud, but also to to provide evidence when challengers argue the existence of actual fraud.  Although apparently there is little credible evidence that significant ballot fraud has been committed in previous U.S. federal elections, the ability to compare signatures on mailed-in ballots with signatures on voter-registration documents―assuming it is done fairly and with appropriate safeguards against partisan bias―is in an important element of maintaining public trust in the integrity of the electoral process.

At the end of the day though, I still think we should . . . vote over the Internet.  Maybe in 50 years the government will finally jump on that.  I know all Apple devices have fingerprint scanners in them now; how common is this in other computers?  I feel like you could make this work and have it be pretty secure.

I don't claim to be an expert in these matters, but I have some experience performing information security functions for the federal government, including dealing with attacks by foreign adversaries, which, according to publicly-available reports of intelligence evaluations, constitute a significant current threat to the electoral process.

While I certainly wouldn't want to foreclose an online voting option in federal elections, I rather doubt it would be possible to implement in an acceptably (and provably) secure manner―at least in a country the size of the United States―without creating a national identity card with strongly-encrypted credentials similar to those used in the personal identity verification cards issued to federal employees.

Cellphones that are currently available are not a secure alternative.  Nor are state driver's licenses that conform to the federal Real-ID standard.  Until now, at least, the political opposition to creating a national identity card remains intense among both right- and left-wing libertarians.

[JoeKitchen]

Nothing's changed, has it?

Jeremy

Is that a quip against me or the Coffee Corner in general? 

I meant no offense to you BTW and harbor no ill feelings keep in mind.  And in all seriousness I often get James and John mixed up, just like with loose and lose. 

[Ray]

Kamala Harris is mixed race of Indian and African-Jamaican heritage born in America. Spain was the first to colonize Jamaica in the early 1500s and to import slaves from Africa. The Spanish colonists did not bring women in the first expeditions. The start of a Jamaican mixed race population begins over 500 years ago. When the British invaded in 1655, Jamaica's entire population consisted of around 2,500 people. By 1800, there were over 250,000 African slaves working plantations. The British were responsible for the dramatic expansion of population in Jamaica thru importation of slaves, but the roots extend further back. Due to the exploitation of female slaves, there was a proliferation of mixed race slaves. There was a classification system for this. Here's a couple of pages from a 1798 history listing their classifications... https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/the-history-civil-and-commercial-of-the-west-indies

I have no idea what you expect in the appearance of mixed race people. Kamala Harris is of Indian/African-Jamaican heritage. Her father is African-Jamaican.

There is no question. None. Since appearances matter to you, here's a picture of baby Kamala sitting on her great-grandmother's lap...  https://www.jamaicaglobalonline.com/2018/10/2.-Miss-Iris-with-her-greatgranddaughter-Kamala-©-Donald-J  and here's her other paternal great-grandmother...  https://www.jamaicaglobalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/miss_chrishy

There is no issue and nothing to clarify.

There is nothing to cover up.

Undoubtedly. It will be used as fuel for the conspiracy minded by extreme right-wing media. In fact, it already is.

Thanks at least for your attempt at clarification, despite claiming there is nothing to clarify.

My impression is that Kamala Harris is a mixture of three racial groups; Indian Asian, Black African, and White Caucasian, with the 'Indian Asian' aspect predominating and the 'White' part coming from an Irish slave owner, Hamilton Brown. Have I got that right?

Seems she's the perfect Presidential candidate for a racially-torn USA. 

[TechTalk]

Hopefully this gives certain people pause....

“…you don’t have to be a racist to support Donald Trump, but, ultimately you have to comfortable with having a racist as President - and that something you think you’re getting from him being President is more important than him being a racist.”

Stuart Stevens - Former Chief Strategist Romney For President 2012.

Quoted from the interview below.

https://youtu.be/K8B6VTj4j0U

Ezra Klein at Vox has a much longer audio podcast interview with Stuart Stevens. I found it very interesting.

"For 30 years, Stuart Stevens was one of the most influential operatives in Republican politics. He was Mitt Romney’s top strategist in 2012, served in key roles on both of George W. Bush’s presidential campaigns, and worked on dozens of congressional and gubernatorial campaigns — building one of the best winning records in politics. Then Stevens watched his party throw its support behind a man who stood against everything he believed in, or thought he believed in.

Most dissidents from Trumpism take a familiar line: They didn’t leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left them. But for Stevens, Trump forced a more fundamental rethinking: The problem, he believes, is not that the GOP became something it wasn’t; it’s that many of those within it — including him — failed to see what it actually was. In Stevens’s new book, It Was All a Lie, he delivers a searing indictment of the party he helped build, and his role in it."

https://www.vox.com/ezra-klein-show-podcast/2020/8/10/stuart-stevens-gop-republicans-trump-romney-ezra-klein

*Edit... A better interview with Stuart Stevens is on NPR Fresh Air... https://www.npr.org/2020/08/11/veteran-gop-strategist-takes-on-trump-and-his-party-in-it-was-all-a-lie

[Ray]

I suggest you watch ths before talking about resiting arrest:

https://www.1011now.com/2020/08/11/graphic-court-releases-body-cam-footage-from-george-floyd-arrest/

Your linked article makes it clear than Floyd did resist arrest. Here are the relevant quotes.

"Floyd is soon pulled from the car. He struggles when Lane and Officer J. Alexander Kueng try to handcuff him."

"This is what the public couldn't see well from surveillance or bystander videos. Floyd initially resists getting into the police vehicle and is then pushed from one side by Kueng."

However, please don't assume that I am excusing the police behaviour. It seems clear that the police overreacted because they were dealing with a Black American, and it seems clear that Floyd was scared stiff, for whatever reason; probably because he was aware that police tend to deal more harshly with Black Americans.

Do you think Floyd would have died if he had submitted calmly to the police and followed their instructions?

[James Clark]

Is that a quip against me or the Coffee Corner in general? 

I meant no offense to you BTW and harbor no ill feelings keep in mind.  And in all seriousness I often get James and John mixed up, just like with loose and lose.

By all means, confuse me with a Pulitzer-prize winning journalist anytime.   Welcome back.

[Alan Klein]

The fact is that the Dems wanted to give the unemployed more and the Reps in congress refused. So somehow this is the Dem's fault? And last I read the constitution, money could not be spent without congressional authorization so Trump's action is blatantly unconstitutional, as even a Rep senator has said. But he may yet get away with it as almost all the Rep congressmen and all too many judges have their lips glued firmly to his ass.

I think some more aid to the unemployed is a good thing, but from Trump it is one of the most blatant vote-buying acts in history.

And Democrats refusing to make any deal is their attempt to get a bunch of angry voters who don't get money to vote Democrat by blaming Republicans for the problem.  Both are sides are playing politics.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Is that a quip against me or the Coffee Corner in general? 

I meant no offense to you BTW and harbor no ill feelings keep in mind. 

The political threads in general.

I'm glad to hear it: you weren't the only contributor who took a break around that time.

Jeremy

[jeremyrh]

Do you think Floyd would have died if he had submitted calmly to the police and followed their instructions?

Do you think that woman would have been raped if she hadn’t gone out in that short skirt?

[Paulo Bizarro]

In this case, it is neither. There was no fighting because there was no war.

This agreement between Israel and UAE is an effort against the common enemy: Iran.