US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

Too bad he can't remember which war finished the n 1918.

Everybody is entitled to a slip of the tongue now and again. It is just that I am unsure sometimes whether it is a slip of the tongue or ignorance. And of course the constant lying bothers me.

[Ray]

Since this is the appropriate thread, all about politics with no 'ad hominems', I'll raise this interesting choice of Kamala Harris as running VP with Joe Biden.

However, I feel I must first mention that I'm not American, but Australian, and I'm not riled up or annoyed by any choices that the American people make, so I'm addressing this situation as an outsider with less political bias than most Americans.

When I first read in the Media that Kamala Harris had been chosen as running mate, I was quite impressed. She's academically well qualified, smart, tough, and at 55 is much younger than Joe Biden and capable of taking on the role of President should Joe Biden seriously falter and become unfit for the job.

I also got the impression from the media that she is half Indian (not American Indian), and half 'Black African', because her father emigrated to the US from Jamaica where most of the population is of African descent, because of the slaves imported by the British.
In view of the current chaos in America, such as the 'Black Lives Matter' protests, and so on, it seemed to me that choosing Kamala Harris as VP running mate is a sensible choice.

However, Kamala doesn't have the appearance of being half 'African American', and her father, Professor Donald Harris, doesn't have the appearance of being a 'Black African'.

A search on the internet revealed that Kamala's father has previously stated that he is descended from Hamilton Brown who was a 'white' slave owner in the British colony of Jamaica, so the question remains, 'does Kamala Harris have any African associations in her DNA?'

If she is appealing to African American voters, this is surely an issue, and I would suggest that Kamala, and/or her father, clarify this issue. If they cover it up, it will be fuel for the opposition.

[Alan Klein]

Since this is the appropriate thread, all about politics with no 'ad hominems', I'll raise this interesting choice of Kamala Harris as running VP with Joe Biden.

However, I feel I must first mention that I'm not American, but Australian, and I'm not riled up or annoyed by any choices that the American people make, so I'm addressing this situation as an outsider with less political bias than most Americans.

When I first read in the Media that Kamala Harris had been chosen as running mate, I was quite impressed. She's academically well qualified, smart, tough, and at 55 is much younger than Joe Biden and capable of taking on the role of President should Joe Biden seriously falter and become unfit for the job.

I also got the impression from the media that she is half Indian (not American Indian), and half 'Black African', because her father emigrated to the US from Jamaica where most of the population is of African descent, because of the slaves imported by the British.
In view of the current chaos in America, such as the 'Black Lives Matter' protests, and so on, it seemed to me that choosing Kamala Harris as VP running mate is a sensible choice.

However, Kamala doesn't have the appearance of being half 'African American', and her father, Professor Donald Harris, doesn't have the appearance of being a 'Black African'.

A search on the internet revealed that Kamala's father has previously stated that he is descended from Hamilton Brown who was a 'white' slave owner in the British colony of Jamaica, so the question remains, 'does Kamala Harris have any African associations in her DNA?'

If she is appealing to African American voters, this is surely an issue, and I would suggest that Kamala, and/or her father, clarify this issue. If they cover it up, it will be fuel for the opposition.

While I only speak for myself, it probably won't matter to most American blacks.  After all, President Obama's mother was white and his father was a black man born in Africa whose ancestors were never slaves, at least American.  American blacks consider Obama an American black.  I suppose they will consider Harris an American black as well even though she too has no American slaves as ancestors.  I really hope we all get past this race stuff.  It does none of us any good. 

The main issue is Biden and Trump.  Frankly, the real main issue will be how Covid and the economy are doing in October when everyone starts voting by mail.  If it's doing lousy, Trump will lose.  If it's doing well, then the people will have to decide whether they want to stick with Trump's leadership and business skills or give Biden a chance despite his apparent age issues and ability to help the economy.  I think Trump proved himself during the last four years despite the difficulty we're having recently because of the virus and the shutdown. 

[James Clark]

While I only speak for myself, it probably won't matter to most American blacks.  After all, President Obama's mother was white and his father was a black man born in Africa whose ancestors were never slaves, at least American.  American blacks consider Obama an American black.  I suppose they will consider Harris an American black as well even though she too has no American slaves as ancestors.  I really hope we all get past this race stuff.  It does none of us any good. 

The main issue is Biden and Trump.  Frankly, the real main issue will be how Covid and the economy are doing in October when everyone starts voting by mail.  If it's doing lousy, Trump will lose.  If it's doing well, then the people will have to decide whether they want to stick with Trump's leadership and business skills or give Biden a chance despite his apparent age issues and ability to help the economy.  I think Trump proved himself during the last four years despite the difficulty we're having recently because of the virus and the shutdown.

Trump’s leadership and business skills?  Dude is a crap CEO who BKs everything he touches and, like, 60% of the people he “leads” hate him. American banks won’t touch him and everyone that leaves his employ trashes him.

[Alan Klein]

Trump’s leadership and business skills?  Dude is a crap CEO who BKs everything he touches and, like, 60% of the people he “leads” hate him. American banks won’t touch him and everyone that leaves his employ trashes him.

Biden never ran a business.

[mistymoon]

Biden never ran a business.

trump is a failed businessman, with numerous bankruptcies, business failures, and ethics violations. If he is an example of a successful businessman, we're screwed. Aside from that, even if he was good at business, that means NOTHING in government. Two different animals.

[Ray]

While I only speak for myself, it probably won't matter to most American blacks.  After all, President Obama's mother was white and his father was a black man born in Africa whose ancestors were never slaves, at least American.  American blacks consider Obama an American black.  I suppose they will consider Harris an American black as well even though she too has no American slaves as ancestors.

There's no doubt that Barack Obama is at least partially Black African and can therefore identify with American Blacks, whether or not his ancestors were slaves.

The issue is whether Kamala Harris has any percentage of African ancestry. If she doesn't, then it would be just plain silly for anyone to consider her an American Black.

I'm speculating here, but I think it's possible that her father might have some Black African DNA, but he doesn't look nearly as black as Barack Obama, so he might be, say, 1/4th black. I think it was not unusual in the past for slave owners to have sex with their slaves.

I really hope we all get past this race stuff.  It does none of us any good.

Racial prejudice does none of us any good, but being honest is the greatest good.

[jeremyrh]

A search on the internet revealed that Kamala's father has previously stated that he is descended from Hamilton Brown who was a 'white' slave owner in the British colony of Jamaica, so the question remains, 'does Kamala Harris have any African associations in her DNA?'

If she is appealing to African American voters, this is surely an issue, and I would suggest that Kamala, and/or her father, clarify this issue. If they cover it up, it will be fuel for the opposition.

As far as I’m aware the police don’t do a DNA test before they kneel on your neck. The issue isn’t the minutiae of her ancestry, it’s her experience as a “person of color “ living in the US.

[William Walker]

Hopefully this gives certain people pause....

“…you don’t have to be a racist to support Donald Trump, but, ultimately you have to comfortable with having a racist as President - and that something you think you’re getting from him being President is more important than him being a racist.”

Stuart Stevens - Former Chief Strategist Romney For President 2012.

Quoted from the interview below.

https://youtu.be/K8B6VTj4j0U

[William Walker]

Biden never ran a business.

[Robert Roaldi]

Biden never ran a business.

Is that a measure of anything relevant?

Did Nixon? Did Reagan? Did Kennedy? Did Eisenhower?

Other than his TV "reality" show, has Trump actually accomplished much that would prepare him for his current job?

[James Clark]

As far as I’m aware the police don’t do a DNA test before they kneel on your neck. The issue isn’t the minutiae of her ancestry, it’s her experience as a “person of color “ living in the US.

Exactly right.

[Robert Roaldi]

There's no doubt that Barack Obama is at least partially Black African and can therefore identify with American Blacks, whether or not his ancestors were slaves.

The issue is whether Kamala Harris has any percentage of African ancestry. If she doesn't, then it would be just plain silly for anyone to consider her an American Black.

I'm speculating here, but I think it's possible that her father might have some Black African DNA, but he doesn't look nearly as black as Barack Obama, so he might be, say, 1/4th black. I think it was not unusual in the past for slave owners to have sex with their slaves.

Racial prejudice does none of us any good, but being honest is the greatest good.

Is the descendence from slaves a relevant piece of information? Does that criterium matter to anyone?

[James Clark]

Since this is the appropriate thread, all about politics with no 'ad hominems', I'll raise this interesting choice of Kamala Harris as running VP with Joe Biden.

However, I feel I must first mention that I'm not American, but Australian, and I'm not riled up or annoyed by any choices that the American people make, so I'm addressing this situation as an outsider with less political bias than most Americans.

When I first read in the Media that Kamala Harris had been chosen as running mate, I was quite impressed. She's academically well qualified, smart, tough, and at 55 is much younger than Joe Biden and capable of taking on the role of President should Joe Biden seriously falter and become unfit for the job.

I also got the impression from the media that she is half Indian (not American Indian), and half 'Black African', because her father emigrated to the US from Jamaica where most of the population is of African descent, because of the slaves imported by the British.
In view of the current chaos in America, such as the 'Black Lives Matter' protests, and so on, it seemed to me that choosing Kamala Harris as VP running mate is a sensible choice.

However, Kamala doesn't have the appearance of being half 'African American', and her father, Professor Donald Harris, doesn't have the appearance of being a 'Black African'.

A search on the internet revealed that Kamala's father has previously stated that he is descended from Hamilton Brown who was a 'white' slave owner in the British colony of Jamaica, so the question remains, 'does Kamala Harris have any African associations in her DNA?'

If she is appealing to African American voters, this is surely an issue, and I would suggest that Kamala, and/or her father, clarify this issue. If they cover it up, it will be fuel for the opposition.

I gotta say, this is one of the stranger things I’ve read here. Are you asking if her father is actually just a swarthy white guy, and if she’s of Indian/Caucasian descent instead of being black?  Not attacking you, I’m just not sure what you think is unclear/important.

[Alan Klein]

Is that a measure of anything relevant?

Did Nixon? Did Reagan? Did Kennedy? Did Eisenhower?

Other than his TV "reality" show, has Trump actually accomplished much that would prepare him for his current job?

Well, Biden has helped run up American debt for 40 years in politics.

Yes, running a business or being a governor is good experience for the presidency.  Making executive decisions under fire compliments the position.  Being a senator, and deciding how to vote on legislation, not so much. 

Reagan was governor of California for 8 years.  Eisenhower was the general in charge of Allied forces in Europe during WWII and won,  Kennedy frankly was the weakest and nearly got us into WWIII with his stupid decision regarding the Bay of Pigs in Cuba and causing the Russians to set up shop there with nuclear tipped missiles.  He was very inexperienced in running things.  Nixon got himself fired as president because he didn't control his staff properly and let them run wild in Watergate. Trump doesn't waste any time firing you if you screw up.  So yeah.  Executive experience counts a lot.  What did Biden do?  It's true he was VP and saw decision making going on.  But he wasn't the one making the hard decisions.

[faberryman]

If she is appealing to African American voters, this is surely an issue, and I would suggest that Kamala, and/or her father, clarify this issue. If they cover it up, it will be fuel for the opposition.

I am sure that Biden's campaign completely forgot to vet this characteristic of his running mate, and that Trump's crack team of private investigators just back from Hawaii will track this to ground. Meanwhile, let's believe everything we read about it on the internet.

[faberryman]

Well, Biden has helped run up American debt for 40 years in politics.

Yes, running a business or being a governor is good experience for the presidency.  Making executive decisions under fire compliments the position.  Being a senator, and deciding how to vote on legislation, not so much. 

Reagan was governor of California for 8 years.  Eisenhower was the general in charge of Allied forces in Europe during WWII and won,  Kennedy frankly was the weakest and nearly got us into WWIII with his stupid decision regarding the Bay of Pigs in Cuba and causing the Russians to set up shop there with nuclear tipped missiles.  He was very inexperienced in running things.  Nixon got himself fired as president because he didn't control his staff properly and let them run wild in Watergate. Trump doesn't waste any time firing you if you screw up.  So yeah.  Executive experience counts a lot.  What did Biden do?  It's true he was VP and saw decision making going on.  But he wasn't the one making the hard decisions.

I am too tired to look up all of Trump's disastrous business ventures. Let just say that if someone could screw something up, doesn't matter what, it's Trump. You post this tripe so often, I get the feeling you are trying to convince yourself of it.

[Ray]

As far as I’m aware the police don’t do a DNA test before they kneel on your neck.

Of course not. Don't be silly    . George Floyd resisted arrest. The policeman's reaction in kneeling on his neck would not have occurred if George had not resisted arrest. The over-reaction of the police led to his death, and that over-reaction would have been influenced by the obvious awareness and prejudice that they were dealing with a 'Black American'. No DNA test required.

The issue isn’t the minutiae of her ancestry, it’s her experience as a “person of color “ living in the US.

I'm not American, but my impression is that the prejudice against 'Black Americans' is greater than the prejudice against 'Brown Americans', such as Asians and Hispanics. The difference is not minutiae.
The following article addresses the issue. It's a long article, so I'll select a few quotes for those who can't be bothered to read it.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

"When asked about specific situations they may have experienced because of their race or ethnicity, blacks are considerably more likely than whites, Hispanics or Asians to say that people have acted as if they were suspicious of them; people have acted as if they thought they weren’t smart; they have been treated unfairly by an employer in hiring, pay or promotion; or they have been unfairly stopped by police. Hispanics and Asians are more likely than whites to say each of these have happened to them."

"A multivariate analysis suggests that Hispanics with darker skin tones are more likely than those with lighter skin to say they have ever experienced discrimination or been treated unfairly because of their race or ethnicity. Darker skin color is also associated with a higher likelihood among Hispanics of saying that – because of their race or ethnicity – people have acted as if they were suspicious of them, people have acted as if they thought they weren’t smart, they have been treated unfairly in employment situations, they have subject to slurs or jokes, and that they have feared for their safety."

"Blacks are more likely than other racial or ethnic groups to say being black hurts a lot: 42% say this vs. a third or fewer among Asians, whites and Hispanics."
"While blacks are more likely than people in most other racial and ethnic groups to say being black is a hindrance in getting ahead, just the opposite is true for Hispanics. Hispanics are the least likely to say being Hispanic hurts people’s ability to get ahead."

"Blacks are by far the most likely to say slavery continues to have an impact. More than eight-in-ten say slavery affects the position of black people at least a fair amount, including 59% who say it does so a great deal. By comparison, 26% of whites, 29% of Hispanics and 33% of Asians say slavery affects the situation of black people today a great deal, though majorities of each group say it does so at least a fair amount."

[Alan Klein]

There's too much discussion about race in American politics.  I thought we got past that with President Obama.  We really need to move on. We've got a devastating virus going around that's killing people and destroying our economy.  The growing national debt is killing us.  Both parties just want to print more money to solve the problem.  Their plans are a disaster.

[faberryman]

There's too much discussion about race in American politics.  I thought we got past that with President Obama.  We really need to move on. We've got a devastating virus going around that's killing people and destroying our economy. 

And disproportionately affects people of color. But let's gloss over that.

The growing national debt is killing us.  Both parties just want to print more money to solve the problem.  Their plans are a disaster.

Where have I heard this before? Why don't you just put this in your signature. It will save you from having to retype it every other post.