US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

Since Trump was helpful in getting it done, he deserves credit for it.

Yes, but his charactering the deal as "I've kept us out of war" and you characterizing the deal as the equivalent of a US-North Korea peace treaty are both hyperbolic to say the least.

It's like him claiming $400 in unemployment benefits when they really are just $300, and which are supposed to go through December 6th when the money is going to run out in four or five weeks.

Or his FHA eviction moratorium which is nothing more than a directive to look into it. And if they ever figure something out, it won't apply to 90% of renters.

Or even something as petty as him futzing with the elevator control panels so Trump Tower looks like it has ten more floors than it actually does.

There's always some bullshit with Trump.

[jeremyrh]

And the US takes another step.towards dictatorship as Trump chips away at the cornerstone of democracy, the right to vote

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump-usps-post-office-election-funding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[jeremyrh]

Yes, but his charactering the deal as "I've kept us out of war" and you characterizing the deal as the equivalent of a US-North Korea peace treaty are both hyperbolic to say the least.

It's like him claiming $400 in unemployment benefits when they really are just $300, and which are supposed to go through December 6th when the money is going to run out in four or five weeks.

Or his FHA eviction moratorium which is nothing more than a directive to look into it. And if they ever figure something out, it won't apply to 90% of renters.

Or even something as petty as him futzing with the elevator control panels so Trump Tower looks like it has ten more floors than it actually does.

There's always some bullshit with Trump.

Or his executive order on pre-existing conditions which was ALREADY THE LAW

[faberryman]

Or his executive order on pre-existing conditions which was ALREADY THE LAW

He hasn't signed it yet. I can't imagine it being enforceable anyway. When asked about why he was signing an executive order about something that was already the law, he said it is "a double safety net." Sounds like something from Animal House.

[JoeKitchen]

And the US takes another step.towards dictatorship as Trump chips away at the cornerstone of democracy, the right to vote

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump-usps-post-office-election-funding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

And liberals keep on ignoring the obvious signs that a vote by mail election would be a complete and abject disaster.  Below is a NYTs article on the NYC primaries that were largely based off of mail in ballots.  In short, 21% (that's over a 1/5) of all ballots were invalidated due to a few reasons, all of which would not have been an issue with in person voting. 

After this and the Iowa Caucus, I dont know how anyone can trust Democrats on running an election anymore, especially with trying something new for the first time.  Furthermore, considering 86% of Republicans but only 45% of Democrats plan on voting in person, the drastic increase in vote by mail is only going to help the republicans.  Many more ballots from Dems will be invalidated.  Plus longer voting lines due to fewer polling places will mean only the most enthusiastic will wait, and there is no enthusiasm to vote for Biden. 

Why the Botched N.Y.C. Primary Has  ...

Yes, I'm back.  Jeremy R was kind enough to give me a week off after my heated remarks about James (I believe), and then I decided to give myself another month. 

[Alan Klein]

Yes, but his charactering the deal as "I've kept us out of war" and you characterizing the deal as the equivalent of a US-North Korea peace treaty are both hyperbolic to say the least.

It's like him claiming $400 in unemployment benefits when they really are just $300, and which are supposed to go through December 6th when the money is going to run out in four or five weeks.

Or his FHA eviction moratorium which is nothing more than a directive to look into it. And if they ever figure something out, it won't apply to 90% of renters.

Or even something as petty as him futzing with the elevator control panels so Trump Tower looks like it has ten more floors than it actually does.

There's always some bullshit with Trump.

We've been through this before.  Trump is trying to help the unemployed who have to pay rent.  A president is not the Congress.  They are charged with legislating, not the president.  You can can't expect him to dot every "i" and cross every "t".  That's Congress's job.  And the Democrats have abandoned these people refusing to give them anything unless the states get a trillion dollars in aid.  That's a separate issue, a huge funding and debt issue, that could be discussed separately.  In the meanwhile, they should pass the extension to the PPP for the unemployed. 

[faberryman]

We've been through this before.  Trump is trying to help the unemployed who have to pay rent.  A president is not the Congress.  They are charged with legislating, not the president.  You can can't expect him to dot every "i" and cross every "t".  That's Congress's job.  And the Democrats have abandoned these people refusing to give them anything unless the states get a trillion dollars in aid.  That's a separate issue, a huge funding and debt issue, that could be discussed separately.  In the meanwhile, they should pass the extension to the PPP for the unemployed.

So that's your excuse for him lying about it?

[Alan Klein]

So that's your excuse for him lying about it?

He's not lying about it. I heard him say in the news conference that $300 will be paid by the Feds while the states have to pay the $100.  The unemployed voters who can't pay rent next month without Trump and because of Pelosi and the Democrats don't care how many floors there are in Trump Towers. 

[faberryman]

He's not lying about it. I heard him say in the news conference that $300 will be paid by the Feds while the states have to pay the $100.  The unemployed voters who can't pay rent next month without Trump and because of Pelosi and the Democrats don't care how many floors there are in Trump Towers.

It's not what he said at his golf club when he first rolled this out. It came out the following day when the press looked at, and reported on,  what was actually in the executive order. By then, the jig was up.

[Alan Klein]

It's not what he said at his golf club when he first rolled this out. It came out the following day when the press looked at, and reported on,  what was actually in the executive order.

Explain that all to the unemployed voters.

[jeremyrh]

And liberals keep on ignoring the obvious signs that a vote by mail election would be a complete and abject disaster.  Below is a NYTs article on the NYC primaries that were largely based off of mail in bailouts.  In short, 21% (that's over a 1/5) of all bailouts were invalidated due to a few reasons, all of which would not have been an issue with in person voting. 

After this and the Iowa Caucus, I dont know how anyone can trust Democrats on running an election anymore, especially with trying something new for the first time.  Furthermore, considering 86% of Republicans but only 45% of Democrats plan on voting in person, the drastic increase in vote by mail is only going to help the republicans.  Many more bailouts from Dems will be invalidated.  Plus longer voting lines due to fewer polling places will mean only the most enthusiastic will wait, and there is no enthusiasm to vote for Biden. 

Why the Botched N.Y.C. Primary Has  ...
 

An honest president would react by making sure that the USPS was equipped to handle the ballots (note the spelling) and not try to undermine democracy by hindering the vote. Oh, sorry, I said "honest president". My mistake.

[jeremyrh]

Explain that all to the unemployed voters.

Explain that Trump denied them the support they were getting previously?  I'd imagine that that's happening as we speak.

[JoeKitchen]

An honest president would react by making sure that the USPS was equipped to handle the ballots (note the spelling) and not try to undermine democracy by hindering the vote. Oh, sorry, I said "honest president". My mistake.

And how would that solve the rather large number of ballots that were invalidated because people just forgot to sign them?  Oh yes, that's right, the Dems also want to not just make it so you dont need any ID, but that you also dont even need to sign ballots anymore.  (This is actually in their version of the bill specifically due to the NYC screw up.) 

The fact is, there is no way of making the USPS equipped enough without implementing automation, which has been vehemently fought by the Dems for years.  To equip the USPS with more automation would take longer then a few months, since you need to start planning logistics, create machine designs, then build them, perhaps expand into new buildings, etc.  This would be a multi-year approach.  Half-assing it in a couple of months would result in what we saw recently in NYC and in Iowa earlier this year. 

Even if they just hired a few 1000 more postman, they would have to be trained.  Not to mention, I would find it difficult to imagine you could only hire them as temps since the union is so strong they would fight for them being permanent employees.  This would create another mess in the future that would require another bailout. 

Sorry Jeremy, but it is you that is not being honest. 

BTW, thanks for catching my spelling error. 

[faberryman]

The Post Office handles 472 million pieces of mail a day. Now if they would stop pulling those automatic sorting machines out of the post offices.

https://www.businessinsider.com/usps-turning-off-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election-2020-8

And Trump said mail in was okay in Florida. Do they have their own post office?

[JoeKitchen]

The Post Office handles 472 million pieces of mail a day. Now if they would stop pulling those automatic sorting machines out of the post offices.

https://www.businessinsider.com/usps-turning-off-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election-2020-8

And Trump said mail in was okay in Florida. Do they have their own post office?

As usually the real meat is at the end of the article. 

"But experts have said that Trump's assertion that the USPS won't be able to process mail-in voting without a larger budget is faulty. Amber McReynolds, the former director of the Denver Elections Division and the CEO of the National Vote At Home Institute, told Business Insider in April that election-related mail likely wouldn't strain the service."

If mail-in ballots wont cause any strain, why the need for $25B? 

Now, insofar as deactivating the machines, it does not say why nor how many sorting machines the post office has.  If they are deactivating 14 out of 14 machines, that would be an issue.  But if it is 14 out of 1000, not that much to worry about.  As far as why, maybe they are older machines that use a lot more power and more expensive to run? 

Not exactly great reporting here.  I need more information to make up my mind on this. 

[faberryman]

If mail-in ballots wont cause any strain, why the need for $25B?

I seem to recall 3.5 billion was for the mail in ballots and the balance was for annual budget. But I could be wrong. I just don't care enough about arguing with you to bother looking them up again.

[JoeKitchen]

I seem to recall 3.5 billion was for the mail in ballots and the balance was for annual budget. But I could be wrong. I just don't care enough about arguing with you to bother looking them up again.

Well to honest, I would be fine with the $25B if the majority of it went to solve budget shortfalls.  However, I would only agree to this if the bill also made it so the USPS can be run completely separate from congress without the need of congressional approval to make business decisions. 

The nix on signing ballots would be a deal breaker for me also.  Sorry, but you need to have some way of ensuring ballots are filled out by the right person before being mailed, even if that means a large percentage of idiots will forget to sign them making their ballots invalidated. 

At the end of the day though, I still think we should go the Joe Rogan route, vote over the Internet.  Maybe in 50 years the government will finally jump on that.  I know all Apple devices have fingerprint scanners in them now; how common is this in other computers?  I feel like you could make this work and have it be pretty secure. 

[faberryman]

Here is the article I read:

"Democrats passed legislation in May that would allocate $25 billion over three years to the Postal Service as part of broader coronavirus relief. Democratic leaders have proposed an additional $3.5 billion in supplemental funding to be used for election resources amid the coronavirus pandemic, which has complicated in-person voting."

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/511835-trump-says-no-post-office-funding-means-democrats-cant-have-universal

As usual, Trump is farting a cloud of misinformation about the post office funding.

The ballots need to be signed. If you forget to do so, it is your own fault your ballot is not counted. I don't know whether the Democrats or the Republicans have the larger pool of voters who are either too dumb or too absent minded to sign their ballot. If you don't think you can handle the signing part, vote in person. A nice little old lady showed me where I had to sign when I voted in person the last time around.  In truth, it doesn't matter whether I vote or not as I live in a red state that Trump carried by double digits. But I'll do my civic duty and most likely vote in person. I'd have to drive the mail in ballot to the post office anyway. People have been going around taking mail out of the mail boxes in our neighborhood hoping to find bill payment checks so they can forge themselves as payee and buy who knows what. Maybe groceries. The polling place is right next to the post office.  There is a long window for early voting so no long lines to worry about.

[PeterAit]

He's not lying about it. I heard him say in the news conference that $300 will be paid by the Feds while the states have to pay the $100.  The unemployed voters who can't pay rent next month without Trump and because of Pelosi and the Democrats don't care how many floors there are in Trump Towers.

The fact is that the Dems wanted to give the unemployed more and the Reps in congress refused. So somehow this is the Dem's fault? And last I read the constitution, money could not be spent without congressional authorization so Trump's action is blatantly unconstitutional, as even a Rep senator has said. But he may yet get away with it as almost all the Rep congressmen and all too many judges have their lips glued firmly to his ass.

I think some more aid to the unemployed is a good thing, but from Trump it is one of the most blatant vote-buying acts in history.

[JoeKitchen]

ere is the article I read:

"Democrats passed legislation in May that would allocate $25 billion over three years to the Postal Service as part of broader coronavirus relief. Democratic leaders have proposed an additional $3.5 billion in supplemental funding to be used for election resources amid the coronavirus pandemic, which has complicated in-person voting."

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/511835-trump-says-no-post-office-funding-means-democrats-cant-have-universal

Why Frank, thanks so much for showing you care enough to look this up!  I'm going to live high on this for the rest of the week.