US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

Even in your case, stating that you're from North Carolina, a southern state would make your argument in favor of Black Lives Matter, if you hold that position, more powerful.  Otherwise, people might assume you're just another Yankee from another northern liberal state and would favor the organization.

This sort of nonsense is why we shouldn't disclose our locations.

[Robert Roaldi]

Why are you surprised that members of a party, whether Republican or Democrat, support their party's president?  That's how it works.  How many Democrats didn't support Obama?  You either stick together or all hang separately.

You didn't listen to it, did you? You didn't hear why the author thinks their support of authoritarian policies may run contrary to American constitutional beliefs. That's ok, I didn't put it out there for you, I put it out there because I thought it was interesting piece. You can listen to it or not, up to you.

[James Clark]

Why are you surprised that members of a party, whether Republican or Democrat, support their party's president?  That's how it works.  How many Democrats didn't support Obama?  You either stick together or all hang separately.

I didn't vote for Obama in '12 specifically because he abandoned (or actively embraced) some of the policy positions that I though were critical and necessary changes from the previous administration.  I wouldn't vote for any candidate, D, R, my party or not, that advanced and went to court to promote a unitary executive theory, or that argued, literally, that the president was immune from investigation for murder, and I'm pretty comfortable with that... 

[Manoli]

Why are you surprised that members of a party, whether Republican or Democrat, support their party's president?  That's how it works. 

No, Alan that's not how it works. If it did, then Johnson wouldn't have won the landslide victory he did in the UK elections and Trump, for sure, wouldn't have won in 2016.

[Alan Klein]

I didn't vote for Obama in '12 specifically because he abandoned (or actively embraced) some of the policy positions that I though were critical and necessary changes from the previous administration.  I wouldn't vote for any candidate, D, R, my party or not, that advanced and went to court to promote a unitary executive theory, or that argued, literally, that the president was immune from investigation for murder, and I'm pretty comfortable with that... 

No, Alan that's not how it works. If it did, then Johnson wouldn't have won the landslide victory he did in the UK elections and Trump, for sure, wouldn't have won in 2016.

I was referring to Senators and Congressmen who are Republicans sticking together, or if they are Democrats.  Of course, voters will switch parties when they vote despite belonging to a party.  Additionally, many voters don't even belong to a party.

[Alan Klein]

You didn't listen to it, did you? You didn't hear why the author thinks their support of authoritarian policies may run contrary to American constitutional beliefs. That's ok, I didn't put it out there for you, I put it out there because I thought it was interesting piece. You can listen to it or not, up to you.

NPR, Ann Applebaum and The Atlantic are all left, anti-Trump. How many Trump hating diatribes should I listen too? 

[hogloff]

NPR, Ann Applebaum and The Atlantic are all left, anti-Trump. How many Trump hating diatribes should I listen too?

Just as many Trump loving...he can't do no wrong diatribes to balance your biased views. If you only read what you agree with...you'll never know the real truth...just what you want the truth to be.

[TechTalk]

This was all hashed out before you came to the party.  Check earlier threads about this subject.

If I missed out on the hash at your party, I'm not likely to be going there now.

The main point I made then and make again is that it is not in America's interest to get involved securing a homeland for the Kurds

When has anyone suggested that the US become involved in securing a homeland for the Kurds?

We've spent enough treasure and lost enough blood in the Middle East trying to sort out the craziness there that will never be resolved regardless what we do.

The US has invested blood and treasure in the Middle East. Anyone, not wearing blinders, will also know that the US has also extracted treasure from the region and thru the fomenting of revolution and support of brutal dictators and monarchs has aided in the loss of blood there. As to craziness, the US has had a hand in stirring that pot as well.

The US has been involved wherever money, power, and oil intersect in the Middle East since the 1920s when oil was discovered there. The ledger is thick and complex, but there are certainly entries on both sides of the balance sheet for the US.

While it would be nice for the Kurds to have a homeland, it doesn't become America's responsibility.

Again, who has suggested that a Kurdish homeland is the responsibility of the US?

The Kurd history was something European and other countries caused and who didn't do anything to correct for a hundred years.

Largely, but not exclusively.
______________________

My post was in response to your suggestion to imagine what it would be like if US troops were still in Syria engaged with "players jockeying for power, territory and control of oil".  I spent the vast majority of the post, to which you replied, showing that the US is still there - in reality - and doing precisely what you asked to imagine.

Mention of the Kurds in this thread (not your previous hash party which I missed) began when I pointed out that they hadn't fared well under recent US policy. This is nothing new for them as the US has repeatedly played them as pawns and then abandoned them in Iraq. This time it's Syria.

I tacked on to the bottom of my more recent post a highly abbreviated modern history of the Kurds for the expressly stated purpose of  giving "a little history in the hope that it might nudge some further interest of a few people to learn more" about the Kurds, especially as it relates to their history with Turkey.

Never did I or anyone else, anywhere in this thread, even remotely suggest that the US should be involved in "securing a homeland for the Kurds". How or why you went off on that tangent, I haven't a clue.

You did mention hash at a previous party that I missed. It must have been good.

[James Clark]

NPR, Ann Applebaum and The Atlantic are all left, anti-Trump. How many Trump hating diatribes should I listen too?

Enough to convince you that when the president's lawyer claims that he's immune from investigation (not indictment, investigation) *even if he shoots someone in plain view * we have a problem.

[TechTalk]

NPR, Ann Applebaum and The Atlantic are all left, anti-Trump. How many Trump hating diatribes should I listen too?

You should read or listen to nothing except predigested information conforming to your ideological diet. Unless of course, you're attempting to keep an open mind and are looking for broader knowledge.

[TechTalk]

This is podcast from NPR's Fresh Air program. It is an interview with Ann Applebaum who wrote a recent article in The Atlantic analyzing the behaviour of GOP and administration officials and how they seem to acquiesce to many of Trump's proto-authoritarian impulses, something to which they would have been normally opposed, https://www.npr.org/2020/06/04/869783127/why-gop-leaders-back-trumps-proto-authoritarian-cult. She likens this to a form of collaboration that is due to several motivations and there is a discussion of those.

Just a word of warning to Trumpeteers, this podcast is not a safe space for you. It contains disturbing descriptions of Trump's actions since being elected, nothing new but you won't enjoy them. If you at all sensitive, best not to listen.

I read the article in The Atlantic and thought it was very well written. Thanks for the interview link! I'm going to listen to it now.

[Alan Klein]

Just as many Trump loving...he can't do no wrong diatribes to balance your biased views. If you only read what you agree with...you'll never know the real truth...just what you want the truth to be.

I'l bet I watch more CNN and MSNBC than you watch Fox.

[hogloff]

I'l bet I watch more CNN and MSNBC than you watch Fox.

You got that right. I don't watch any of that shit...it's there to entertain the simpletons. If I want entertainment, I'll watch the Three Stooges...much smarter than the Stooges in the White House today.

[kers]

I think Trump will not be reelected mainly because of the way he (not) handled the corona pandemie.
It will linger on till election-day and beyond, just because there was no clear national direction and will have a devastating effect on the economy, unemployment; not to talk about the 150.000+ casualties.

[faberryman]

I think Trump will not be reelected mainly because of the way he (not) handled the corona pandemie.
It will linger on till election-day and beyond, just because there was no clear national direction and will have a devastating effect on the economy, unemployment; not to talk about the 150.000+ casualties.

Texas and Florida are on a record setting pace for cases and hospitalizations, and the governors today rolled back their reopening plans, which largely means they are closing bars. You'd think that adults would take steps to protect themselves by wearing masks and social distancing, but it is simply too much too expect. People are idiots.

[hogloff]

I think Trump will not be reelected mainly because of the way he (not) handled the corona pandemie.
It will linger on till election-day and beyond, just because there was no clear national direction and will have a devastating effect on the economy, unemployment; not to talk about the 150.000+ casualties.

He showed extremely poor leadership throughout the pendemic. Rather than providing the leadership the USA was critically needing, all Trump was concerned about was his reelection...thinking ( hoping ) the virus would just go away as it is interrupting his reelection plans.

If he had more wisdom, he would realize the virus was a huge opportunity to show the people his leadership and tackle the issue head on...get the nation united against this invisible enemy...but instead he totally blundered any opportunity to take the Bulls by the horns and now he's swimming in dodo.

[faberryman]

If I missed out on the hash at your party, I'm not likely to be going there now.

Trust me; you didn't miss a thing. But you knew that.

[LesPalenik]

Texas and Florida are on a record setting pace for cases and hospitalizations, and the governors today rolled back their reopening plans, which largely means they are closing bars. You'd think that adults would take steps to protect themselves by wearing masks and social distancing, but it is simply too much too expect. People are idiots.

Some of them were told that in the summer the virus will magically disappear. Or that some herds will appear which will put the end to it.

[Alan Klein]

Here's why mail-in voting can be a fraud problem.  This is near where I live.  This is not one or two votes as is always claimed by Democrats.  It ran into the thousands for a little election.  You won't see this story much on CNN.

1 in 5 Ballots Rejected as Fraud Is Charged in N.J. Mail-In Election

In the City Council election, 16,747 vote-by-mail ballots were received, but only 13,557 votes were counted. More than 3,190 votes, 19% of the total ballots cast, were disqualified by the board of elections.

Over 800 ballots in Paterson were invalidated for appearing in mailboxes improperly bundled together – including a one mailbox where hundreds of ballots were in a single packet.

The board of elections disqualified another 2,300 ballots after concluding that the signatures on them did not match the signatures on voter records.

There were multiple reports that large numbers of mail-in ballots were left on the lobby floors of apartment buildings and not delivered to residents’ individual mailboxes, further casting doubt on the integrity of the election.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5_ballots_rejected_as_fraud_is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html

[Robert Roaldi]

I think Trump will not be reelected mainly because of the way he (not) handled the corona pandemie.
It will linger on till election-day and beyond, just because there was no clear national direction and will have a devastating effect on the economy, unemployment; not to talk about the 150.000+ casualties.

It appears that Trump is starting to paint himself as the "law and order" choice. If FOX keeps showing rioters and looters on high rotation, it's a strategy that might have legs.

A recent podcast from Sam Harris points this out, among many other things, https://samharris.org/podcasts/207-can-pull-back-brink/.