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Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 103009 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2180 on: October 11, 2020, 03:41:04 pm »

Some pretty damning descriptions of the amateur incompetence in the White House, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/11/amateur-hour-trump-white-house-428533https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/11/amateur-hour-trump-white-house-428533.

Shouldn't a successful billionaire manage a business better than this?
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2181 on: October 11, 2020, 03:59:45 pm »

The above is fake news. Biden has made it quite clear that he would retain a small footprint of troops in Afghanistan to monitor and respond to any re-emergence of ISIS or Al-Qaeda in that country. All one needs to do to confirm this is to actually bother to watch the interview with Biden to which the fake news commentary from The Week in India linked above refers.

https://www.youtube.com/Joe Biden talks Afghanistan, future of troop presence overseas

Or, there is the more recent Sept. 11, 2020 article from Axios below.

https://www.axios.com/biden-trump-911-legacy

"Biden made news on Thursday when he told Stars and Stripes that he supports a sustained U.S. military footprint of up to 1,500-2,000 on the ground — primarily for special operations against ISIS and other terror threats — in the war that began after the 9/11 terrorist attacks 19 years ago.

"These forever wars have to end ... but here's the problem, we still have to worry about terrorism," Biden said."

"Biden's insistence on a counter-ISIS force puts him to the right of President Trump's rhetoric — though the maximum levels Biden is talking about are lower than what the winner in November can expect to inherit — but the Democratic nominee's stance also could give some assurances to centrist voters from both parties."

Trump on the other hand has announced that he intends to withdraw all US forces from Afghanistan which prompted support for his re-election from the Taliban.

Military Times / Associated Press - Oct. 8, 2020

https://www.militarytimes.com/2020/10/08/taliban-cheer-trump-tweet-promising-early-us-troop-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

"Military officials blindsided by Trump announcement of early US troop withdrawal from Afghanistan"

"The U.S. military was blindsided Thursday by President Donald Trump’s assertion that all U.S. troops will be out of Afghanistan by the end of the year, with U.S. officials saying they are not aware of such a plan and have gotten no actual order to accelerate the more gradual pullout they’ve been executing."Trump’s comments, laid out in a confusing progression of comments and a tweet, alarmed Pentagon and State officials who fear that putting a definitive date on troop withdrawal could undercut negotiations to finalize a peace deal between the Taliban and the Afghan government. They also fear a hasty withdrawal could force the U.S. to leave behind sensitive military equipment. And they continue to stress that the Taliban has still not met requirements to reduce violence against the Afghans, a key element of the U.S. withdrawal plan."

"The Taliban welcomed Trump’s announcements, which started with a tweet Wednesday saying “we should have the small remaining number of our BRAVE Men and Women serving in Afghanistan home by Christmas.” He reinforced early withdrawal plans Thursday morning, in a Fox Business Channel interview that understated the number of troops currently in Afghanistan."

Their policy positions are not the same. Please stop spreading fake news.

* And if you're unable to recognize real news and professional journalists and have to go to India to find fake news commentary in order to create a false narrative, you might want to consider slowing down to check your sources before blurting things out online or anywhere else.


Biden's position before was the same as Trump's.  Read my article.  So now he's modified it just in time for the election as he has with every other position he's taken in life.  Who's spreading false news?  You or me, or are both of us telling different things because Biden can't make up his mind until he checks which way the wind is blowing?   Regardless, as I said,  CBS never mentioned Biden's position one way or the other.  They just smeared Trump.

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2182 on: October 11, 2020, 04:17:53 pm »

What change in Biden's position? You happily roll along making things up as you feel the need.

The CBS News interview with Biden was from February. He reiterated the same position last month.

I read your fake news article that you linked. Who's spreading fake news? You are.

The CBS news story was on Trump's impulsive policy tweet. The story wasn't about Biden. There's no reason to mention Biden's consistent policy position of maintaining a small special forces presence to monitor and respond to any renewed security threats in a story about recent Trump changes in position.

You seem unable to tell fact from fiction from a smear.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 04:28:06 pm by TechTalk »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2183 on: October 11, 2020, 04:45:11 pm »

What change in Biden's position? You happily roll along making things up as you feel the need.

The CBS News interview with Biden was from February. He reiterated the same position last month.

I read your fake news article that you linked. Who's spreading fake news? You are.

The CBS news story was on Trump's impulsive policy tweet. The story wasn't about Biden. There's no reason to mention Biden's consistent policy position of maintaining a small special forces presence to monitor and respond to any renewed security threats in a story about recent Trump changes in position.

You seem unable to tell fact from fiction from a smear.
There you go again spreading fake news.  Here's from the JUly 15, 2020 article I posted:

"If there is one thing Democrat candidate Joe Biden and President Donald Trump do agree on, it is the pull out of troops from Afghanistan. In an interview, Biden made it clear: America bears “zero responsibility’’ if the Taliban come back to power.

“Zero responsibility. The responsibility I have is to protect America’s national interest and not put our women and men in harm's way… that’s what I’d do as president,’’ Biden said in an interview to CBS when asked whether America bore responsibility if the Taliban came back to power.

His comments make it clear that Afghanistan policy will not change if there was a new president in the White House come November. “I hope this is a wake-up call to any Afghan leaders slow-rolling the #AfghanPeaceProcess in the hopes that the US might change direction and aim to stay in Afghanistan (if) Joe Biden wins in November,’’ tweeted Laurel Miller, Director of Asia Programme at the Crisis Group...."

"...Biden’s views on Afghanistan are not new. In 2010, Biden had lost his temper with Richard Holbrooke, the then special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, when the latter raised the point of making the rights of Afghan women a priority. Biden “erupted’’ Holbrooke, with the exchange recorded in the book Our Man: Richard Holbrooke and the End of the American Century. "I am not sending my boy back there to risk his life on behalf of women’s rights, it just won’t work, that’s not what they’re there for,’’ he is quoted as saying. Biden wanted to get out of Afghanistan..."

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2184 on: October 11, 2020, 04:49:41 pm »

So Trump has been negotiating a withdrawal with the Taliban which is the same policy Biden agrees with and supported, even telling the Taliban don't expect anything different from him.  Yet fake news CBS tries to smear Trump never mentioning Biden's position one way or the other.  That's the point.   Nothing about Biden's position.  Nada.   

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2185 on: October 11, 2020, 04:58:20 pm »

For crying out loud man! Watch the freaking interview with Biden that your fake news article references!

I handed it to you already on a silver platter, but here it is again. If you can spare 4-minutes of your time to bother to check the reliability of the fake news you keep linking to or simply make up on your own, you may actually be enlightened.

https://www.youtube.com/Joe Biden talks Afghanistan, future of troop presence overseas

If you bother to watch the interview and then are unable or unwilling to see that their policies on troop withdrawals are not the same, as you and your quoted fake news commentary claim, I can't be bothered with your nonsense.

Biden wants to pull out troops as well. Both candidates have the same policy.

False. Trump tweeted on Oct. 7th "We should have the small remaining number of our BRAVE Men and Women serving in Afghanistan home by Christmas!" Biden has consistently said that we need to retain a small military special forces presence to monitor and respond to any re-emergence of ISIS or Al-Qaeda to insure US security. They do NOT have the same policy on troop withdrawal.

If there is one thing Democrat candidate Joe Biden and President Donald Trump do agree on, it is the pull out of troops from Afghanistan.

His comments make it clear that Afghanistan policy will not change if there was a new president in the White House come November.

Fake news commentary. Trump wants to bring US forces down to zero. Biden wants to retain a small footprint of trained counterterrorism forces in Afghanistan and has consistently maintained that position. They do NOT have the same policy on troop withdrawal.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 07:12:59 pm by TechTalk »
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John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2186 on: October 11, 2020, 06:15:29 pm »

There you go again spreading fake news.  Here's from the JUly 15, 2020 article I posted:

"If there is one thing Democrat candidate Joe Biden and President Donald Trump do agree on, it is the pull out of troops from Afghanistan. In an interview, Biden made it clear: America bears “zero responsibility’’ if the Taliban come back to power.

“Zero responsibility. The responsibility I have is to protect America’s national interest and not put our women and men in harm's way… that’s what I’d do as president,’’ Biden said in an interview to CBS when asked whether America bore responsibility if the Taliban came back to power.

His comments make it clear that Afghanistan policy will not change if there was a new president in the White House come November. “I hope this is a wake-up call to any Afghan leaders slow-rolling the #AfghanPeaceProcess in the hopes that the US might change direction and aim to stay in Afghanistan (if) Joe Biden wins in November,’’ tweeted Laurel Miller, Director of Asia Programme at the Crisis Group...."

"...Biden’s views on Afghanistan are not new. In 2010, Biden had lost his temper with Richard Holbrooke, the then special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, when the latter raised the point of making the rights of Afghan women a priority. Biden “erupted’’ Holbrooke, with the exchange recorded in the book Our Man: Richard Holbrooke and the End of the American Century. "I am not sending my boy back there to risk his life on behalf of women’s rights, it just won’t work, that’s not what they’re there for,’’ he is quoted as saying. Biden wanted to get out of Afghanistan..."



This is really dishonest, Alan. You should stop doing this. The Biden quote -- a whole transcript of the Face the Nation interview -- is found easily enough with Google. Why did you go to a secondary source that twisted the interview?

Biden said:
"I gave you my- I gave the answer. Do I bear responsibility? Zero responsibility. The responsibility I have is to protect America's na- national self-interest and not put our women and men in harm's way to try to solve every single problem in the world by use of force. That's my responsibility as President. And that's what I'll do as president."

He didn't say he bears zero responsibility if the Taliban comes back to power -- he said we bear zero responsibility for solving all the world's problems by sending troops everywhere. In the same interview, he favored keeping some troops in Afghanistan, to prevent the Taliban or Al Queda from coming back to power.

"I think we should only have troops there to make sure that it's impossible for the Taliban and excuse me- for ISIS or al-Qaeda to reestablish a foothold there, to be able to go from Afghanistan to the United States to attack the United States. That requires a much smaller footprint.
 
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2187 on: October 11, 2020, 06:35:06 pm »

He won't watch a 4-minute long video clip of the interview that proves his assertions and the phony news commentary he linked to are false. You think that he'd be willing to even glance at a transcript?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-joe-biden-on-face-the-nation-february-23-2020/
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PeterAit

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2188 on: October 11, 2020, 06:39:57 pm »

Peter,

Biden wants to pull out troops as well. Both candidates have the same policy. You'd think that CBS would mention Biden's position in the article.  But of course the fake news press's job is only to smear Trump.
https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/07/15/us-set-to-pull-out-of-afghanistan-regardless-of-the-election-result.html

The point is not whether Biden's position is different, duh. The point is that the Taliban have explicitly endorsed Trump.

The main stream press does not seek to smear Trump--that a right-wing pipe dream. They report accurately and because Trump does so many stupid, vile, and evil things, it just looks that way.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2189 on: October 11, 2020, 07:26:12 pm »

I am really pulling for this guy to oust Lindsey Graham.

Jaime Harrison raises $57 million in campaign to unseat Lindsey Graham, shattering quarterly record

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/11/jaime-harrison-raises-57-million-in-campaign-to-unseat-lindsey-graham.html
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2190 on: October 11, 2020, 08:39:53 pm »

For crying out loud man! Watch the freaking interview with Biden that your fake news article references!

I handed it to you already on a silver platter, but here it is again. If you can spare 4-minutes of your time to bother to check the reliability of the fake news you keep linking to or simply make up on your own, you may actually be enlightened.

https://www.youtube.com/Joe Biden talks Afghanistan, future of troop presence overseas

If you bother to watch the interview and then are unable or unwilling to see that their policies on troop withdrawals are not the same, as you and your quoted fake news commentary claim, I can't be bothered with your nonsense.

False. Trump tweeted on Oct. 7th "We should have the small remaining number of our BRAVE Men and Women serving in Afghanistan home by Christmas!" Biden has consistently said that we need to retain a small military special forces presence to monitor and respond to any re-emergence of ISIS or Al-Qaeda to insure US security. They do NOT have the same policy on troop withdrawal.

Fake news commentary. Trump wants to bring US forces down to zero. Biden wants to retain a small footprint of trained counterterrorism forces in Afghanistan and has consistently maintained that position. They do NOT have the same policy on troop withdrawal.
Suddenly on Oct 7, 4 days ago,  he stated that he wants to leave a small contingent.  For a decade, he's been telling everyone he wants our troops out.
He won't watch a 4-minute long video clip of the interview that proves his assertions and the phony news commentary he linked to are false. You think that he'd be willing to even glance at a transcript?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-joe-biden-on-face-the-nation-february-23-2020/
Trump was leaving a small contingent too originally. But that was before.  He's now engaged in negotiations as president with the Taliban.  So sure, there's now a slight difference.  But Biden wanted the troops out for years which was Trump's position.  Both men agreed on this.

In any case, my point was not about the difference, small or large as you perceive it. But that CBS just smeared Trump and never said in their article anything about Biden's position, which is basically the same as Trumps.  Regarding leaving troops there, this is from the same VP who in 2011 supported Obama in pulling troops out of Iraq against military commanders advice.  That was the power vacuum that create ISIS that Trump had to destroy along with Al Baghdadi, its leader.  CBS said nothing about that either. 

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2191 on: October 11, 2020, 08:42:30 pm »

I am really pulling for this guy to oust Lindsey Graham.

Jaime Harrison raises $57 million in campaign to unseat Lindsey Graham, shattering quarterly record

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/11/jaime-harrison-raises-57-million-in-campaign-to-unseat-lindsey-graham.html
You never hear from Democrats how money is helping their candidates.  They only complain about campaign financing when Republicans get it.  What a bunch of phonies. 

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2192 on: October 11, 2020, 09:07:12 pm »

Suddenly on Oct 7, 4 days ago,  he stated that he wants to leave a small contingent.

No.No.No. You don't even bother with basic reading comprehension. TRUMP tweeted on Oct. 7th that he was bringing all of the troops home from Afghanistan before Christmas. Biden has very consistently... you know what. Never mind. This is like trying to teach a brick how to do calculus.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2193 on: October 11, 2020, 10:44:26 pm »

No.No.No. You don't even bother with basic reading comprehension. TRUMP tweeted on Oct. 7th that he was bringing all of the troops home from Afghanistan before Christmas. Biden has very consistently... you know what. Never mind. This is like trying to teach a brick how to do calculus.

Your frustration is understandable but you are wasting your time trying to get him to read or listen to anything you suggest. He never has before. His posts are almost always just talking points that are probably posted on cult web sites for followers to use. Reality has no traction in that world. They probably think he has actually drained the swamp and built the wall.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2194 on: October 11, 2020, 11:28:27 pm »

This is like trying to teach a brick how to do calculus.

 :) :) :) :) :)
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2195 on: October 12, 2020, 10:30:33 am »

Reading Uncle Remus is probably not politically correct these days, but taking a quick glance at the tale of Tar-Baby might shed some light on the problem. Br-er Rabbit ultimately prevails over Br-er Fox, but not without sullying himself in the process. It is best to walk on by. The ignore feature aids you in doing so.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 04:00:57 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2196 on: October 12, 2020, 11:12:12 am »

Biden clearly stated in 2011 2012 (corrected) when he was Vice President under Obama that we should get out of Afghanistan entirely.  Sure, Biden changed his mind a little for this election.  But Biden has changed his mind on every policy he's ever had except wanting to be president. My main point was the CBS never mentioned Biden or his policy positions in the article.  It just use the article to smear Trump.  I agree with Biden's assessment in 2011 which matches Trumps current plan.  Americans need to get out of Afghanistan.  WHo cares who runs that country.  We should just warn the Taliban that if they again allow their country to be used as a terrorist camp, then we'll be back.


Biden: Mission accomplished in Afghanistan

Vice President Joe Biden said Thursday night that the United States has successfully completed its one and only mission in Afghanistan: to destroy al Qaeda, seeming to narrow the administration’s goals for the war. "The fact is we went there for one reason: to get those people who killed Americans — al Qaeda," Biden said during ...
BY JOSH ROGIN | OCTOBER 11, 2012, 11:20 PM

"The fact is we went there for one reason: to get those people who killed Americans — al Qaeda," Biden said during his debate with Rep. Paul Ryan. "We decimated al Qaeda central; we have eliminated Osama bin Laden. That was our purpose."

"It is the responsibility of the Afghans to take care of their own security," he said. "The primary objective is almost completed. Now all we’re doing is putting the Kabul government in a position to be able to maintain their own security. It’s their responsibility, not America’s."

"[Ryan] and the governor say it’s based on conditions, which means ‘it depends.’ It does not depend for us. It is the responsibility of the Afghans to take care of their own security," Biden said in what appear to be the most emphatic statements on the 2014 departure date by an Obama administration official. "We are leaving in 2014. Period."
https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/10/11/biden-mission-accomplished-in-afghanistan/
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 11:23:24 am by Alan Klein »
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MattBurt

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2197 on: October 12, 2020, 11:52:47 am »

Biden has changed his mind on every policy he's ever had except wanting to be president.

Citation?
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2198 on: October 12, 2020, 01:04:05 pm »

Citation?
Look up the word rhetorical. 

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2199 on: October 12, 2020, 01:13:50 pm »

Citation?
By the way, Matt, is that the only negative thing you can say about my post?  So I suppose you now agree with everything I was saying regarding everything Biden believed in 2012 and that he's changed his policy position?  You didn't say anything about that point.
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