Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 110821 times)

Ray

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1720 on: September 28, 2020, 08:24:15 am »

And by the way, it has nothing to do with business acumen and everything to do with expensive tax attorneys and accountants.

Really! Who chooses the expensive attorneys and accountants, and on what basis is the choice made. Doesn't this require business acumen?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1721 on: September 28, 2020, 08:29:39 am »

Really! Who chooses the expensive attorneys and accountants, and on what basis is the choice made. Doesn't this require business acumen?

It seems to me that the whole point of business acumen in the case of a privately held company is to provide wealth and income to the owner and his or her family.  It appears that Trumps is doing that nicely, and finding a ways to avoid taxes, which pretty much every person alive tries to do. 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1722 on: September 28, 2020, 08:33:22 am »

Regardless of what you thnk of him, he digs up a lot of dirt....

James O’Keefe, of Project Veritas, exposes massive Minneapolis voter fraud

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/09/james_okeefe_of_project_veritas_exposes_massive_minneapolis_voter_fraud.html#ixzz6ZL6itG6U
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1723 on: September 28, 2020, 09:09:38 am »

You have to read to well in the the yellow news of the NYT to find the real truth...

Mr. Trump was periodically required to pay a parallel income tax called the alternative minimum tax, created as a tripwire to prevent wealthy people from using huge deductions, including business losses, to entirely wipe out their tax liabilities.

Mr. Trump paid alternative minimum tax in seven years between 2000 and 2017 — a total of $24.3 million, excluding refunds he received after filing. For 2015, he paid $641,931, his first payment of any federal income tax since 2010.


To be fair, I understand his decisions about reducing the level of taxation for the rich, why would he want to tax himself?

I mean since we've established that ethics aren't relevant anymore for Trump and his hard core supporters.

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Bernard

jeremyrh

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1724 on: September 28, 2020, 09:26:32 am »

I think Trump should demand a refund.  For $70,000 I'd expect my hair to look better than an orang-utan in a wind tunnel!
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1725 on: September 28, 2020, 09:51:28 am »

Really! Who chooses the expensive attorneys and accountants, and on what basis is the choice made. Doesn't this require business acumen?

Not really. You just ask around. Everybody knows who the best in the professions are. Same with doctors and such.

And how much business acumen does it take to lose so much money you don't have to pay taxes? A friend of mine once told me that the way to make a small fortune in real estate was to start with a large one. I think I have read that if Trump had invested the money he inherited from his father in a stock index fund, he would be wealthier than even he claims to be. The probable result of these disclosure is that Trump is going to fall off the Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans. I don't know if Trump's ego with be able to handle it. I am sure it will be Fake News.

I know I won’t convince you of anything so just ignore my posts. The Ignore feature works pretty well.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 02:02:16 pm by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1726 on: September 28, 2020, 10:56:18 am »

The Trump accountants and their participation in setting up fraudulent tax schemes for the family business over decades is old news. People have short memories; especially when there is a never ending stream of chaos pouring from the White House.

https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-shadowy-accountants-who-do-trumps-taxes-and-help-him-seem-richer-than-he-is

Meet the Shadowy Accountants Who Do Trump’s Taxes and Help Him Seem Richer Than He Is

The Supreme Court fight over Donald Trump’s tax returns has pushed his accounting firm into the limelight. In various episodes over 30 years, partners — including the CEO — have run into trouble for fraud, misconduct or malpractice.

by Peter Elkind, ProPublica, and Meg Cramer, WNYC, with Doris Burke, ProPublica May 6, 4 a.m. EDT

Excerpts Below

In fact, Trump entrusts his taxes and planning to a tiny, secretive team of CPAs who have operated at various times from humble quarters in Queens and two Long Island office parks. That team, which has had two leaders with back-to-back multidecade terms, has been working for the Trumps since Fred Trump began using the firm back in the 1950s. It was eventually subsumed into Mazars USA, the American arm of a large international firm, through a series of mergers over decades.

One theme has been consistent: partners and sometimes the firm itself have faced accusations of fraud, misconduct and malpractice on multiple occasions, an investigation by ProPublica and WNYC has found.

That pattern dates to the 30 years during which the Trump accounting team was led by Jack Mitnick, whose pugnaciousness was exceeded only by his aversion to his clients paying the IRS. He was the architect of the notorious schemes, revealed by The New York Times, to dodge more than $500 million in gift and inheritance taxes and funnel hundreds of millions from Fred Trump to his children, helping keep Donald Trump afloat through four of his business bankruptcies. Mitnick was known as an accounting star — at least until 1996, when his partners threw him out of the firm amid accusations of fraud and malpractice.

Years of turmoil followed. The firm operated without malpractice insurance for a period and was dogged by feuds — with current and former partners suing each other — and financial problems.

And it ran afoul of regulators. In January of 2004 — one week after “The Apprentice” premiered on NBC — the Securities and Exchange Commission formally censured the firm for willfully aiding and abetting misconduct. The SEC suspended one partner from practicing before it for four years for what the agency called “highly unreasonable” and “improper professional conduct.”

Since Trump’s accountants merged their practice into Mazars in 2010, they have been present for Trump’s scandals, too. Mazars accountants prepared the tax returns for the Donald J. Trump Foundation, forced to shut down and ordered to pay more than $2 million in damages after a New York attorney general’s investigation exposed a history of illegal self-dealing. And the Manhattan DA’s office, which is investigating whether the Trump Organization falsified its business records to cover up hush-money payments to adult film actress Stormy Daniels, subpoenaed not only Trump’s tax returns but also various internal records and assessments prepared by Mazars.

Today, the CEO of Mazars USA is the same partner who was suspended by the SEC for four years for improper conduct. (Mazars defends its CEO, saying he meets all ethical and professional standards, and asserts that the firm has encountered no more sanctions or litigation than other comparable firms.)

The Mazars accountants were complicit in the foundation’s illegal practices, according to Marcus Owens, an attorney and expert in nonprofit law who ran the IRS’ exempt-organizations division for a decade. “I cannot fathom how they would not know,” he said. Owens called the firm’s role in the foundation’s misconduct “extraordinary. ... I’ve been practicing charity law for 45 years, including 25 at the IRS, and I’ve never seen anything like it.” Added Owens: “This is aiding and abetting someone doing something that is in clear violation of federal tax law. It really calls into question what’s going on with every other tax return that firm prepared.”

The greatest revelations also may not be contained in the tax returns themselves, which will lack detail about Trump and his businesses, but in the thousands of pages of other materials that Congress and the DA have also subpoenaed. These include the hundreds of corporate returns, also prepared by Mazars, detailing Trump’s investments, his debts, his sources of income and his partners. Equally important, the accountants’ work papers and communications with the Trump Organization could reveal unguarded internal assessments and exchanges about his finances.

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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1727 on: September 28, 2020, 11:20:37 am »

If James O’Keefe ever manages to expose anything, it will be himself—most likely to another lawsuit or another conviction.

https://www.businessinsider.com/james-okeefe-project-veritas-sting-fails-2017-11

https://www.theatlantic.com/The Bad Faith of James O'Keefe

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/

"O'Keefe's criminal record has caused the charity problems in some states. Mississippi and Utah stripped the group of a license to raise money in those states because it failed to disclose O'Keefe's conviction on state applications, records show."

"Also working at Veritas is former television producer Robert J. Halderman, who was sentenced to six months in jail in 2010 after he was accused of trying to blackmail late-night host David Letterman. Halderman was with O'Keefe outside the Project Veritas offices Monday as a reporter tried to ask about Phillips's role with the organization."
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 12:20:35 pm by TechTalk »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1728 on: September 28, 2020, 11:33:09 am »

The Trump accountants and their participation in setting up fraudulent tax schemes for the family business over decades is old news. People have short memories; especially when there is a never ending stream of chaos pouring from the White House.

...


No, NO, NO!, TechTalk.  You're missing the point. That's just sound business practices.  He's just smarter than everyone else.  He knows how to game the system.  That's why he's such a good President.
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1729 on: September 28, 2020, 11:49:43 am »

I'm still trying to get over the shock that you have to actually read what was written in a news story of the NYT to find the real truth!
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1730 on: September 28, 2020, 12:59:49 pm »

Really! Who chooses the expensive attorneys and accountants, and on what basis is the choice made. Doesn't this require business acumen?

From what I read and hear on podcasts, it has been true for many years that US banks will no longer do business with Trump, as he is unreliable when it comes to paying back creditors. None of this is secret, it has been known for a long time, well before he was elected. Mainstream news in the US is skin deep. The number of people who read the longer analytical pieces rounds to zero.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1731 on: September 28, 2020, 01:28:02 pm »

The Trump accountants and their participation in setting up fraudulent tax schemes for the family business over decades is old news. People have short memories; especially when there is a never ending stream of chaos pouring from the White House.

https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-shadowy-accountants-who-do-trumps-taxes-and-help-him-seem-richer-than-he-is

Meet the Shadowy Accountants Who Do Trump’s Taxes and Help Him Seem Richer Than He Is

The Supreme Court fight over Donald Trump’s tax returns has pushed his accounting firm into the limelight. In various episodes over 30 years, partners — including the CEO — have run into trouble for fraud, misconduct or malpractice.

by Peter Elkind, ProPublica, and Meg Cramer, WNYC, with Doris Burke, ProPublica May 6, 4 a.m. EDT

Excerpts Below

In fact, Trump entrusts his taxes and planning to a tiny, secretive team of CPAs who have operated at various times from humble quarters in Queens and two Long Island office parks. That team, which has had two leaders with back-to-back multidecade terms, has been working for the Trumps since Fred Trump began using the firm back in the 1950s. It was eventually subsumed into Mazars USA, the American arm of a large international firm, through a series of mergers over decades.

One theme has been consistent: partners and sometimes the firm itself have faced accusations of fraud, misconduct and malpractice on multiple occasions, an investigation by ProPublica and WNYC has found.

That pattern dates to the 30 years during which the Trump accounting team was led by Jack Mitnick, whose pugnaciousness was exceeded only by his aversion to his clients paying the IRS. He was the architect of the notorious schemes, revealed by The New York Times, to dodge more than $500 million in gift and inheritance taxes and funnel hundreds of millions from Fred Trump to his children, helping keep Donald Trump afloat through four of his business bankruptcies. Mitnick was known as an accounting star — at least until 1996, when his partners threw him out of the firm amid accusations of fraud and malpractice.

Years of turmoil followed. The firm operated without malpractice insurance for a period and was dogged by feuds — with current and former partners suing each other — and financial problems.

And it ran afoul of regulators. In January of 2004 — one week after “The Apprentice” premiered on NBC — the Securities and Exchange Commission formally censured the firm for willfully aiding and abetting misconduct. The SEC suspended one partner from practicing before it for four years for what the agency called “highly unreasonable” and “improper professional conduct.”

Since Trump’s accountants merged their practice into Mazars in 2010, they have been present for Trump’s scandals, too. Mazars accountants prepared the tax returns for the Donald J. Trump Foundation, forced to shut down and ordered to pay more than $2 million in damages after a New York attorney general’s investigation exposed a history of illegal self-dealing. And the Manhattan DA’s office, which is investigating whether the Trump Organization falsified its business records to cover up hush-money payments to adult film actress Stormy Daniels, subpoenaed not only Trump’s tax returns but also various internal records and assessments prepared by Mazars.

Today, the CEO of Mazars USA is the same partner who was suspended by the SEC for four years for improper conduct. (Mazars defends its CEO, saying he meets all ethical and professional standards, and asserts that the firm has encountered no more sanctions or litigation than other comparable firms.)

The Mazars accountants were complicit in the foundation’s illegal practices, according to Marcus Owens, an attorney and expert in nonprofit law who ran the IRS’ exempt-organizations division for a decade. “I cannot fathom how they would not know,” he said. Owens called the firm’s role in the foundation’s misconduct “extraordinary. ... I’ve been practicing charity law for 45 years, including 25 at the IRS, and I’ve never seen anything like it.” Added Owens: “This is aiding and abetting someone doing something that is in clear violation of federal tax law. It really calls into question what’s going on with every other tax return that firm prepared.”

The greatest revelations also may not be contained in the tax returns themselves, which will lack detail about Trump and his businesses, but in the thousands of pages of other materials that Congress and the DA have also subpoenaed. These include the hundreds of corporate returns, also prepared by Mazars, detailing Trump’s investments, his debts, his sources of income and his partners. Equally important, the accountants’ work papers and communications with the Trump Organization could reveal unguarded internal assessments and exchanges about his finances.

So where are the convictions of Donald Trump for fraud?  More BS from Mr. Talk
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1732 on: September 28, 2020, 01:30:12 pm »

So where are the convictions of Donald Trump for fraud?  More BS from Mr. Talk

You have to view things in context. How many white collar crooks get caught and jailed? There was that guy from Enron once, I think, ....
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1733 on: September 28, 2020, 01:31:07 pm »

If James O’Keefe ever manages to expose anything, it will be himself—most likely to another lawsuit or another conviction.

https://www.businessinsider.com/james-okeefe-project-veritas-sting-fails-2017-11

https://www.theatlantic.com/The Bad Faith of James O'Keefe

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/

"O'Keefe's criminal record has caused the charity problems in some states. Mississippi and Utah stripped the group of a license to raise money in those states because it failed to disclose O'Keefe's conviction on state applications, records show."

"Also working at Veritas is former television producer Robert J. Halderman, who was sentenced to six months in jail in 2010 after he was accused of trying to blackmail late-night host David Letterman. Halderman was with O'Keefe outside the Project Veritas offices Monday as a reporter tried to ask about Phillips's role with the organization."

I see you can't refute the claims by Veritas in this instance.  So instead you go directly to shooting the source.

Pretty weak stuff here Mr. Talk.  Google is not really your friend after all.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1734 on: September 28, 2020, 01:35:05 pm »

You have to view things in context. How many white collar crooks get caught and jailed? There was that guy from Enron once, I think, ....

Lots and they have been looking at Trump and his companies for 30 years according to Mr. Talk.  Its easy to make wild claims.  Much harder to prove them. And if Mr. Talk could have proved them he would have.  Instead all he has left...once again...is innuendo.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 01:42:16 pm by Craig Lamson »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1735 on: September 28, 2020, 01:40:00 pm »

It seems to me that the whole point of business acumen in the case of a privately held company is to provide wealth and income to the owner and his or her family.  It appears that Trumps is doing that nicely, and finding a ways to avoid taxes, which pretty much every person alive tries to do.
Yet, he campaigned on cleaning up the tax code back in 2016.  He didn't even do away with the carried interest loophole that benefits his hedge fund friends.  Anyone who has had real estate holdings realizes the tax code is meant to be abused.  If you look at some of the deductions Trump has taken it is quite laughable.  He even paid his daughter as a consultant and then wrote off the 'exact' same amount as a deduction.  How many of us could do the same.  Most of this golf courses are unprofitable as is his hotel in DC.  The huge refund he claimed over a decade ago continues to be under audit.  Why?

If he doesn't like the NY Times story he can easily clear things up by releasing his tax returns for the years in question.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1736 on: September 28, 2020, 01:42:34 pm »

Really! Who chooses the expensive attorneys and accountants, and on what basis is the choice made. Doesn't this require business acumen?
Not really.  the question is how close to the tax law does one want to come.  Real estate tax law is a total joke in the US.  Everytime a building changes hands, the depreciation begins all over again.  why do you think hotel building so frequently flip to a new brand?  It's all about the depreciation.  I would have taken Trump more seriously if he and Mnuchin had drawn some hard lines in the sand on the tax reform legislation in 2017.  That he did not speaks to his grifter mentality.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1737 on: September 28, 2020, 01:54:00 pm »

Yet, he campaigned on cleaning up the tax code back in 2016.  He didn't even do away with the carried interest loophole that benefits his hedge fund friends.  Anyone who has had real estate holdings realizes the tax code is meant to be abused.  If you look at some of the deductions Trump has taken it is quite laughable.  He even paid his daughter as a consultant and then wrote off the 'exact' same amount as a deduction.  How many of us could do the same.  Most of this golf courses are unprofitable as is his hotel in DC.  The huge refund he claimed over a decade ago continues to be under audit.  Why?

If he doesn't like the NY Times story he can easily clear things up by releasing his tax returns for the years in question.

Well Alan the IRS has been looking at him for years.  Still waiting to see what they have on him or not  Why is it taking so long?  You need to ask the IRS about that.  I'm not shocked at all to see his properties are not profitable at this time.  He was once the darling of the LEFT and then he was not.  They have waged a war for three years to take him down b y any means possible including financially.  Which is pretty crappy  if you ask me, but then again its the Left we are talking about.    That it effected his venues is not a surprise.  He may be the only President not to get rich by by being in office.  Now he has Covid trashing entertainment and travel businesses as well. I suspect that he along with a bunch of others in the same industries will be in the same boat. 

Last I looked the tax laws in the US are not written by the President, but rather by Congress.  If you don't like the tax laws, lobby Congress change them.  Don't get pissed that someone uses the tax laws to save a buck.  Why I imagine even you do that, don't you Alan?  I know I do.  After all it seems like an American Tradition.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1738 on: September 28, 2020, 02:12:24 pm »

Last I looked the tax laws in the US are not written by the President, but rather by Congress.  If you don't like the tax laws, lobby Congress change them.  Don't get pissed that someone uses the tax laws to save a buck.  Why I imagine even you do that, don't you Alan?  I know I do.  After all it seems like an American Tradition.

I haven't deducted my haircuts as a business expense. Perhaps I should have. That won't be a big deal this year. My wife has been doing it. Like restaurants, I may never go back to the barber again. Funny how things change. You adapt. Life goes on.

Is there any news on the $200 Rx debit cards Trump is supposed to be handing out to seniors? He'd better hurry, the election is almost upon us, and I have a couple of prescriptions to fill. I have given up on another $1200 check from Congress. So much for new tires.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 07:46:15 pm by faberryman »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1739 on: September 28, 2020, 02:15:48 pm »

Well Alan the IRS has been looking at him for years.  Still waiting to see what they have on him or not  Why is it taking so long?  You need to ask the IRS about that.  I'm not shocked at all to see his properties are not profitable at this time.  He was once the darling of the LEFT and then he was not.  They have waged a war for three years to take him down b y any means possible including financially.  Which is pretty crappy  if you ask me, but then again its the Left we are talking about.    That it effected his venues is not a surprise.  He may be the only President not to get rich by by being in office.  Now he has Covid trashing entertainment and travel businesses as well. I suspect that he along with a bunch of others in the same industries will be in the same boat. 

Last I looked the tax laws in the US are not written by the President, but rather by Congress.  If you don't like the tax laws, lobby Congress change them.  Don't get pissed that someone uses the tax laws to save a buck.  Why I imagine even you do that, don't you Alan?  I know I do.  After all it seems like an American Tradition.

The "letter of the law" argument has its place. I hope this means that we won't hear any more whining about Biden's son.  :)

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