PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[faberryman]

What can I say, if only America's worse governor Cuomo actually listened to Trump instead of scoffing at him for a couple of weeks and not shutting, perhaps ...

Last I checked, take NY out of the equation and we sit at #47 in terms of death rates.

Take out Florida, Texas, and California, they would probably improve further.

Maybe Germany could take out Munich and Berlin and their stats would improve too. Just a guess.

Tell me again under federalism what Trump can take credit for and what Trump has to take the blame for. It is your argument after all.

This sounds like the argument that if I take out the D I got in statistics, my GPA and class ranking would be better.

You must be having a bad day today, Joe. These arguments are way below what you have offered up before.

[JoeKitchen]

Take out Florida, Texas, and California, they would probably improve further.

Maybe Germany could take out Munich or Berlin and their stats would improve. Just a guess.

No no no, leave in CA.  The Ken Doll running that state brings more then enough entertainment to make up for his inept policies. 

[faberryman]

No no no, leave in CA.  The Ken Doll running that state brings more then enough entertainment to make up for his inept policies.

Well, that was enlightening and advances the conversation.

[Craig Lamson]

Take out Florida, Texas, and California, they would probably improve further.

Maybe Germany could take out Munich and Berlin and their stats would improve too. Just a guess.

Tell me again under federalism what Trump can take credit for and what Trump has to take the blame for. It is your argument after all.

This sounds like the argument that if I take out the D I got in statistics, my GPA and class ranking would be better.

You must be having a bad day today, Joe. These arguments are way below what you have offered up before.

I think the argument could be made that in terms of COVID response and statistics at least we are more like 50 separate countries not one big one.  It might make for more interesting and perhaps more accurate comparisons when we look at the rest of the world. 

[faberryman]

I think the argument could be made that in terms of COVID response and statistics at least we are more like 50 separate countries not one big one.  It might make for more interesting and perhaps more accurate comparisons when we look at the rest of the world.

Yes, you could make that argument. Giving it a minute's thought, I think you have to exclude any actions taken by the federal government that may have had any effect on the response in each state, and reevaluate what would have occurred hypothetically in their absence.  Take for example, masks, PPE, ventilators, medicines, federal funding, federal expertise, planning, logistics, testing, the list is almost endless. And the results would simply be a guess. But, I suppose it could be done.

[Craig Lamson]

Yes, you could make that argument. Giving it a minute's thought, I think you have to exclude any actions taken by the federal government that may have had an effect on the response in each state, and reevaluate what would have occurred hypothetically in their absence.  Take for example, masks, PPE, ventilators, medicines, federal funding, federal expertise, the list is almost endless. And the results would simply have to be a guess. But, I suppose it could be done.

True but I think the most important items are the rules set by each state, but that’s just me.  But it illustrates the problem we have when comparing one country to the next.

[faberryman]

True but I think the most important items are the rules set by each state, but that’s just me.  But it illustrates the problem we have when comparing one country to the next.

Not really. Each country has its own rules which affect its outcome. For example, you can compare Sweden and Italy, each of which had their own rules, and determine which country had the best results? I would have to do a significant amount of research to determine whether different rules were in effect in each political subdivision of each country.  For example, France is divided into departments. I would not be at all surprised if each department had some latitude in setting rules, and rules would differ from department to department.

[LesPalenik]

In Canada, Quebec had 106,981 cases while Yukon had only 23. Northwest Territory holds the best record with only 10 cases.

[JoeKitchen]

Not really. Each country has its own rules which affect its outcome. For example, you can compare Sweden and Italy, each of which had their own rules, and determine which country had the best results? I would have to do a significant amount of research to determine whether different rules were in effect in each political subdivision of each country. I would guess that is the case, but it is just a guess.

This is just not the case.  Our country is very unique of how much governing powers are given to the states. 

I was recently listening to a conversation with  Ben Shapiro (on the right, obviously) and Matt Yglesias (of VOX, and on the left), and it struck me that Matt Yglesias was the one who pointed out that one of the great things about the USA is how we have independent states that govern differently.  And not only that, people are free to move from state to state, giving us a free market on governance.  No other country has this. 

Perhaps with Munich vs. Berlin you can find some meaningful differences, but they would pail in comparison between state in the USA.  Like I said, CA with its Ken Doll is a lot different that TX with its Woody (I could not resist). 

[Craig Lamson]

Not really. Each country has its own rules which affect its outcome. For example, you can compare Sweden and Italy, each of which had their own rules, and determine which country had the best results? I would have to do a significant amount of research to determine whether different rules were in effect in each political subdivision of each country.  For example, France is divided into departments. I would not be at all surprised if each department had some latitude in setting rules, and rules would differ from department to department.

Like I said, this just illustrates the difficulty of trying to compare results from one country to the next and compounded by the fact that we are split 50 ways.

[faberryman]

Like I said, this just illustrates the difficulty of trying to compare results from one country to the next and compounded by the fact that we are split 50 ways.

There are 96 departments in mainland France. It is possible that even if each department had leeway in setting rules, they all adopted the same rules because national leaders convinced them that such rules would result in the best response, and that by adopting a uniform set of rules there would be a positive add-on effect.

[faberryman]

This is just not the case.  Our country is very unique of how much governing powers are given to the states. 

I was recently listening to a conversation with  Ben Shapiro (on the right, obviously) and Matt Yglesias (of VOX, and on the left), and it struck me that Matt Yglesias was the one who pointed out that one of the great things about the USA is how we have independent states that govern differently.  And not only that, people are free to move from state to state, giving us a free market on governance.  No other country has this. 

Perhaps with Munich vs. Berlin you can find some meaningful differences, but they would pail in comparison between state in the USA.  Like I said, CA with its Ken Doll is a lot different that TX with its Woody (I could not resist).

Well, if our political system results in a poorer COVID response than a country with a different political system, maybe we should make adjustments to our political system. Or recognize that our political system results in a poorer COVID response, but has other benefits which outweigh a poorer COVID response, and make no changes.

I think our poor COVID response was the result of poor leadership at the federal, state, and local levels, rather than our political system, except to the extent that our political system often results in the election of poor leaders.

[elliot_n]

Last I checked, take NY out of the equation and we sit at #47 in terms of death rates. 

#17

[Craig Lamson]

There are 96 departments in mainland France.

Does each department have its own constitution?   I ask because I don’t know and I don’t feel iike looking.

[faberryman]

Does each department have its own constitution?   I ask because I don’t know and I don’t feel iike looking.

No. It is a different system. Every country has a different political system. They are all unique. As I said, I don't think our political system is the problem. I think it is poor leadership at every level. I think we as a country could have done better. I also think this isn't over, and we can learn from our mistakes, and improve our response going forward. I don't think trying to rationalize why our response thus far has been worse than in other countries is helpful. It is backward looking rather than forward looking.

Take my state for example. Our governor is a political hack. He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, and is a lousy leader. Federalism isn't the reason why he is a political hack who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and is a lousy leader.

[LesPalenik]

Good interview with Canadian Dr. Isaac Bogoch about the C19 situation in USA and a comparison how is this situation handled in Canada.
The interview is presented both as a 5 minute long video clip and as a transcript.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/trump-threatens-fire-fauci-covid-205812610.html

[Jeremy Roussak]

It's 4th November. Political discussion (including of climate change) on this site is now banned, save for the Bear Pit thread which I shall open.

See here for more information.

Jeremy