PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Craig Lamson]

Rob, old photographers and boobs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM2y5n3DQQ0&list=PLCiXi0Azd3pnaG7ZlOxQOKJolKrvdmygH&index=2

[Robert Roaldi]

Robert,  That was the headline if the article.  Not my words.  I usually Italicize and Bold headlines when I post to show it's not my words but the article's. Then I provide the link. My words are the unbolded and unitalicized above the title. I don't try to deceive.  I thought doing that shows which is which. Maybe I should use a different approach.  Should I add quotes "...."  ?

You're quite right, my apologies. Somehow I managed to miss that those words appeared in the actual article. I thought that you had added them in your post and replied too quickly.

So let me transfer my disdain to them. It was a moronic way to frame the article.

My understanding is that headlines are not written by the writer of the article but are superimposed later by someone else, probably someone whose job it is to attract clicks. I try to stay aware of that, but sometimes it slips through my shields.

[Alan Klein]

No problem.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Some were wondering why gun purchase in the time of corona. Here is why:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/doorbell-video-shows-illinois-home-invasion-suspects-in-coronavirus-masks

Doorbell video captures violent Illinois home invasion which left coronavirus mask-wearing suspect dead

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Sweden has a population of about 10M. It has recorded 870 deaths. If we extrapolate that death count to the US population, we'd get about 28,000 deaths. Is that good?

Of course it is.

[BernardLanguillier]

I don't know.  If their country gains herd immunity so there is no secondary wave next year, while the rest of the world goes through a repeat and another shutdown and more deaths, then their approach might be better.  Time will tell.

Sweden is trying to do targeted isolation. One of the 2 options I mentioned in an earlier post.

Whatever the selected approach, the key was to realize early how critical the pandemic is and to deploy the chosen measure timely.

If there is one key difference btwn what is referred to in that article misleadingly as Trump approach (a lockdown) and Sweden’s approach (targeted isolation) it’s that Trump reacted way too late.

I call the wording misleading because:
- Trump was a follower in terms of lock down
- The US is in partial lock down only

Speaking of Sweden, they have completely stopped the usage of Trump’s magical drug, the choloroquine. Because there is no clinical proof it helps while several people have died of heart failure due to it’s usage in the past days.

Regards,
Bernard

[John Camp]

Sweden is in trouble.

[Alan Klein]

Sweden is trying to do targeted isolation. One of the 2 options I mentioned in an earlier post.

Whatever the selected approach, the key was to realize early how critical the pandemic is and to deploy the chosen measure timely.

If there is one key difference btwn what is referred to in that article misleadingly as Trump approach (a lockdown) and Sweden’s approach (targeted isolation) it’s that Trump reacted way too late.

I call the wording misleading because:
- Trump was a follower in terms of lock down
- The US is in partial lock down only

Speaking of Sweden, they have completely stopped the usage of Trump’s magical drug, the choloroquine. Because there is no clinical proof it helps while several people have died of heart failure due to it’s usage in the past days.

Regards,
Bernard

You're backpedaling and trying to ignore and downplay what Sweden did.  No they didn't do what others did. You're trying to make this have do something with Trump.  Sweden's methods are different than other countries.  If it works, we will have a lot to learn from their methods.  People who ignore it to play a political game do that at their and the rest of our peril. 

[chez]

Some were wondering why gun purchase in the time of corona. Here is why:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/doorbell-video-shows-illinois-home-invasion-suspects-in-coronavirus-masks

Doorbell video captures violent Illinois home invasion which left coronavirus mask-wearing suspect dead

Let's make America great again.

[chez]

Of course it is.

Glad you think so. Wouldn't expect anything less from you.

[BernardLanguillier]

You're backpedaling and trying to ignore and downplay what Sweden did.  No they didn't do what others did. You're trying to make this have do something with Trump.  Sweden's methods are different than other countries.  If it works, we will have a lot to learn from their methods.  People who ignore it to play a political game do that at their and the rest of our peril.

Euh... I am at a loss how you reach that conclusion from what I wrote.

It would appear you have understood no more than... 0%.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

Euh... I am at a loss how you reach that conclusion from what I wrote.

It would appear you have understood no more than... 0%.

Cheers,
Bernard

You said: "Whatever the selected approach, the key was to realize early how critical the pandemic is and to deploy the chosen measure timely."

So according to you, it doesn;t matter that Sweden did targeted isolation as an approach which was different than what the US and others did.  According to you, only the start time counts.  I said that their methods including their approach was different and will be worthy of examination, especially if successful.  The start time isn't the only important thing. 

[BernardLanguillier]

You said: "Whatever the selected approach, the key was to realize early how critical the pandemic is and to deploy the chosen measure timely."

So according to you, it doesn;t matter that Sweden did targeted isolation as an approach which was different than what the US and others did.  According to you, only the start time counts.  I said that their methods including their approach was different and will be worthy of examination, especially if successful.  The start time isn't the only important thing.

But even with targeted isolation, the Swedish approach, it will not work well if deployed too late. Or, more accurately, it will be impossible to identify and isolate all the people that need to be if the pandemic already spread too much.

So the right timing is a mandatory condition. And we don’t know yet if the timing was right in Sweden btw.

So the Swedish method is probably not applicable to the US where more than half a million people have unfortunately been contaminated. This being the result of the delayed reaction of Trump.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

But even with targeted isolation, the Swedish approach, it will not work well if deployed too late. Or, more accurately, it will be possible to identify and isolate all the people that need to be if the pandemic already spread too much.

So the right timing is a mandatory condition.

Cheers,
Bernard

Well, let's just say then their approach should be studied regardless of the methods.  Especially if their results turn out better than what others are doing.  We should learn from the good and copy those methods.

[chez]

But even with targeted isolation, the Swedish approach, it will not work well if deployed too late. Or, more accurately, it will be impossible to identify and isolate all the people that need to be if the pandemic already spread too much.

So the right timing is a mandatory condition. And we don’t know yet if the timing was right in Sweden btw.

So the Swedish method is probably not applicable to the US where more than half a million people have unfortunately been contaminated. This being the result of the delayed reaction of Trump.

Cheers,
Bernard

I can assure you there are way more than 1/2 million people infected in the USA. Testing is still low compared to other countries and the proof is in NY where the mayor claimed over 100 people are dying in their homes daily from the virus and they aren't being tallied as Covid cases.

[Robert Roaldi]

Some were wondering why gun purchase in the time of corona. Here is why:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/doorbell-video-shows-illinois-home-invasion-suspects-in-coronavirus-masks

Doorbell video captures violent Illinois home invasion which left coronavirus mask-wearing suspect dead

Wouldn't a story about a homeowner stopping a home invasion with his gun be a better reason for buying guns?

How many people die in home invasions? Is it more than die from the normal flu?

Relax, I'm just having some fun.

[BernardLanguillier]

Well, let's just say then their approach should be studied regardless of the methods.  Especially if their results turn out better than what others are doing.  We should learn from the good and copy those methods.

You are free to say whatever you please. Whether that makes sense is a different matter.

I sincerely hope that the Swedish approach works in Sweden and that it could be deployed successfully in the US if that can save lives, but unfortunately I sincerely doubt it. The reason being that you would probably have to test maybe 10~15 million people (all those that were in contact with known cases) in the coming 2-3 days and isolate the 2-3 millions that will be found to have been infected. Obviously these figures have no scientific foundation, but the order of magnitude should be in the ball park.

I am afraid that the only thing that could limit the problem considering the disastrously late start is the continuation/enforcement of a strict confinement followed by the quick discovery of a drug that is really effective without major side effects.

But I would of course love to be proven wrong.

This approach of wide spread testing and targeted isolation is considered very seriously not as an alternative to the confinement, but as a way to get out of confinement, which is a very different story.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

I can assure you there are way more than 1/2 million people infected in the USA. Testing is still low compared to other countries and the proof is in NY where the mayor claimed over 100 people are dying in their homes daily from the virus and they aren't being tallied as Covid cases.

If there are people dying in their homes in the USA, there are people dying in their homes in Italy and Spain and elsewhere.  These other countries aren't testing everyone either. 

Spain has tested  7596 people per million or 7/10 of 1%.  The US has tested 7557 per million ; also 7/10  of 1%.  NY has tested 21481 or about 3 times the country wide average.  Obviously, due to the heavy infection rate in NY, you'd want to do more testing there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing

[BernardLanguillier]

If there are people dying in their homes in the USA, there are people dying in their homes in Italy and Spain and elsewhere.  These other countries aren't testing everyone either. 

Spain has tested  7596 people per million or 7/10 of 1%.  The US has tested 7557 per million ; also 7/10  of 1%.  NY has tested 21481 or about 3 times the country wide average.  Obviously, due to the heavy infection rate in NY, you'd want to do more testing there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing

Yes, a study showed that in the parts of Italy where the concentration of cases is highest actual casualties are probably unfortunately at least twice as high as the official numbers.

Regards,
Bernard

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Sorry, late to react, and I've not yet read all followup posts, I had more useful things to do.

Interesting stats from an interesting source, take from them what you will.

Thank you, but I prefer more factual sources with good reputation in the scientific world like:
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

And what's easy to forget (or deliberately glance over), is that this is an additional number of deaths on top of those from other causes.
And there is an exponential growth going on that will continue for some time to come. People get ill, some of those get worse, some of those get hospitalized, some of those will die.

BTW, you forgot to mention the number gun fatalities in the USA.