Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[BernardLanguillier]

I really feel sorry for you.  You think you have the ability to foresee the future but you can’t even deal directly with the past.  Or the rule of law...or actual facts on the ground.

Best of luck with your recovery. May it be swift and full and return to to a proper state of mind.

Added on edit:

The irony here is just delicious...

Virus spread in Japan prompts US to issue warning.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-in-japan-spread-draws-warning-us-embassy-americans-get-out-2020-04-03/


An explosive surge in infections is inevitable if Japan doesn't rapidly adopt tough restrictions like those in the U.S. and Europe, Hokkaido University Professor Hiroshi Nishiura has told Nikkei.

"Voluntary stay-home guidelines so far have only cut person-to-person contact on public transit by 20%, but contact needs to be cut by at least 80%," the forecasting expert said. Unless control measures are stepped-up, his modelling predicts new cases in Tokyo will peak at 6,000 per day.

Craig,

Not sure what you are saying, I have only been writing about the past, not a word about the future. I have only commented about what Trump has not done the way he should have as the commander in chief of the most powerful country on earth.

I still haven't see the slightest bit of relevant answer to the points I have been making. Which can only be understood as an acknowledgement that his behavior has indeed fallen far short of expectations.

Regarding this article, the irony is indeed delicious... you stress that taking measures late and way too partially in Japan is a problem (which I agree 1,000% with) but fail to criticize your own president for having strongly contributed for the very same issue in the US...

In won't even comment on the tone of your replies...

Finally, I once again wonder what Trump would have to do or not to do in order to loose support from fanatics of your caliber. Obviously contributing to the death of thousands of elderly citizens isn't considered by you as a major issue...

Cheers,
Bernard

[BobShaw]

Regarding this article, the irony is indeed delicious... you stress that taking measures late and way too partially in Japan is a problem (which I agree 1,000% with) but fail to criticize your own president for having strongly contributed for the very same issue in the US...

How can the US criticise any other country?
Japan for example has 2617 confirmed cases and 65 deaths. Currently sitting number 32 in the world.
USA has 213,600 cases and 4793 deaths and sitting number ONE. More cases than China and Italy combined.
Helloooo?

(sorry if i missed the last 20 pages)

[Rob C]

In other news, I never thought the USA would encourage citizens to rat out their neighbors like in the USSR, but LA Mayor Garcetti had other plans. 

This week the mayor's office in LA put out a statement asking for people to turn in anyone not complying with the stay at home order.  His exact words, “you know the old expression about snitches,” Garcetti said this week. “Well, in this case, snitches get rewards.”  He added: “We want to thank you for turning folks in and making sure we are all safe,” he said.

Eric Michael Garcetti, our new man of steel. 

Like a lottery ticket you'll never loose, scratch a socialist and you'll find a tyrant underneath every time.

That is one of the most irrational, desperate posts I have come across here on LuLa or anywhere else - which isn't surprising, as I don't visit many places where I know I will be exposed to mass stupidity cloaked as loyalty to some brand or another. I just wrote cloaked: perhaps that's a mistake, and the two are actually one and the same thing.

On Sky News a couple of minutes ago I watched Trump say that the wearing of masks had been suggested as a voluntary exercise to prevent infection being spread person to person, but that he probaby wouldn't be wearing one himself.

In one sentence he shows himself the most dumb leader any nation has been cursed to bear. A direct appeal to the myth of the cowboy, the superhero who is beyond all challenges, too brave (read stupid) to take precautions that could not only save himself but fellow citizens. Why is it dificult to comprehend that wearing a mask keeps your flying sneeze or snot inside your mask and not flying into the eyes, noses or mouths of those near you? And vice versa!

You can blame who you like for the place you are in, but boy, you cannot convincingly deny you are being led by a goat. And that goat can't even lead by good example, but only do so by exhibiting the very worst one he can find.

[William Walker]

Nope, just the President of The United States, not a king or a dictator and bound by rules based upon our constitution.

Craig, it seems like under a declared "State of Emergency" you guys are "subjects" and your President does become a "king"...

Senate Report 93-549

War and Emergency Powers Acts     https://famguardian.org/Subjects/LawAndGovt/Articles/SenateReport93-549.htm

"These proclamations give force to 470 provisions of Federal law. These hundreds of statutes delegate to the President extraordinary powers, ordinarily exercised by the Congress, which affect the lives of American citizens in a host of all-encompassing manners. This vast range of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule the country without reference to normal Constitutional processes.

Under the powers delegated by these statutes, the President may:
seize property; organize and control the means of production; seize commodities; assign military forces abroad; institute martial law; seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens."

If this is the case then, the way I see it, the haphazard response of the USA is in the hands of one person...

[BernardLanguillier]

How can the US criticise any other country?
Japan for example has 2617 confirmed cases and 65 deaths. Currently sitting number 32 in the world.
USA has 213,600 cases and 4793 deaths and sitting number ONE. More cases than China and Italy combined.
Helloooo?

Sure Bob!

But still, I completely agree with Craig on this. Japan is acting utterly irresponsibly and the criticism is totally deserved.

The thing though is that Japan has been the first country to be contaminated outside China, they never closed flights, have only closed schools but never imposed a confinement. They are far worse than the US even after the huge mistakes Trump has made.

But... Japanese people mostly wear masks in Feb/Mar to protect themselves from polen and are probably benefiting from a stronger immunity thanks to BCG vaccine strain Tokyo 172. Purely out of an incredible luck.

I honestly think that tens of thousand of people would have died in Japan without this. Authorities seem completely unable to act.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Yea, good for Trump, that IG was less than impartial and law abiding.

How so?

[Robert Roaldi]

I read this but need help understanding it. US health care seems like such a rat's nest to non-Americans, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/trump-obamacare-coronavirus-164285.

It sounds to me as if people who are laid off at this time lose their employer health coverage. So their other option would have been to enrol in Obamacare (sorry I don't know its official name or how to refer to it) but that enrolment had been closed. All the parties involved agreed to re-open enrolment but Trump unilaterally decided to keep enrolment closed. Instead he promised to reimburse hospitals for Covid-19 treatment.

Is my summary correct?

The article specifically referred to hospitals, is it truly hospitals only?

Also, this only promises re-imbursement for Covid-19 care only, nothing else, is this correct?

Does this mean that all those newly unemployed Americans have no health coverage other than what they buy for themselves?

[JoeKitchen]

That is one of the most irrational, desperate posts I have come across here on LuLa or anywhere else - which isn't surprising, as I don't visit many places where I know I will be exposed to mass stupidity cloaked as loyalty to some brand or another. I just wrote cloaked: perhaps that's a mistake, and the two are actually one and the same thing.

On Sky News a couple of minutes ago I watched Trump say that the wearing of masks had been suggested as a voluntary exercise to prevent infection being spread person to person, but that he probaby wouldn't be wearing one himself.

In one sentence he shows himself the most dumb leader any nation has been cursed to bear. A direct appeal to the myth of the cowboy, the superhero who is beyond all challenges, too brave (read stupid) to take precautions that could not only save himself but fellow citizens. Why is it dificult to comprehend that wearing a mask keeps your flying sneeze or snot inside your mask and not flying into the eyes, noses or mouths of those near you? And vice versa!

You can blame who you like for the place you are in, but boy, you cannot convincingly deny you are being led by a goat. And that goat can't even lead by good example, but only do so by exhibiting the very worst one he can find.

So you’re for ratting people out?  Because that is what that post was about.  That would be so  Stalinesc. 

What’s next, hanging wooden doors from basement walls and really teach these people a lesson? 

[BernardLanguillier]

So you’re for ratting people out?  Because that is what that post was about.  That would be so  Stalinesc. 

What’s next, hanging wooden doors from basement walls and really teach these people a lesson?

Perhaps a smarter way of using your time would be to do some soul searching about the relevance of still supporting Trump instead of trying to win conversations here?

Cheers,
Bernard

[JoeKitchen]

Perhaps a smarter way of using your time would be to do some soul searching about the relevance of still supporting Trump instead of trying to win conversations here?

Cheers,
Bernard

And maybe you could spend your time researching USA civics, so when you criticize our government you will actually understand how it works. 

FYI, I use to be a devote liberal Democrat in my early to mid-20s.  I've done my soul-searching already. 

[JoeKitchen]

Really a low death rate...1% is low? If you let it run rampant through the USA by just getting back to normal because you are bored sitting in your house and let's say only 1/2 of the population picks up thus extremely contagious virus...geez only 1,600,000 people will die and 8,500,000 people will be hospitalized with 3,200,000 people needing ICU care.

You can live with this?

At the greater expense of the economy, yes. 

But as I said, you speak as if you actually know how many more will die, but you dont.  No does, not even the medical experts.  Not a single person can give us any definitive answers, and I dont think we should sit back and watch the economy implode without any concrete answers on how many people we are saving by staying inside. 

As I said, the ranges they are putting out their is 50K to 2.25M in the USA alone.  That's too large a range to make any sense of what is coming out of our talking heads. 

I'll give it another week and half, mainly because that is how much longer it will take for the leaves  to come out.  But if I dont get real answers by then, I'm not going to listen to these draconian measures anymore.

[Robert Roaldi]

At the greater expense of the economy, yes. 

But as I said, you speaking as if you actually know how many more will die, but you dont.  No does, not even the medical experts.

It would be interesting to see how cutting back on restrictions and a return to work could happen on the ground. There's no mystery anymore about how risky the bug is, so if the word came out that people should go back to work today, I wonder how many people would say, "Ok, you first." People might see it as that first wave out of the trenches.

You keep repeating that we don't know how many will die. Well, maybe not to the third decimal but I'd say we have a pretty good idea by now, or the rest of us do, I don't know why you don't. The blanket statement that experts don't all agree is pure silliness. We know enough so we know what to do today. When new data emerge we'll know more. That is how everything works. 

[hogloff]

At the greater expense of the economy, yes. 

But as I said, you speak as if you actually know how many more will die, but you dont.  No does, not even the medical experts.  Not a single person can give us any definitive answers, and I dont think we should sit back and watch the economy implode without any concrete answers on how many people we are saving by staying inside. 

As I said, the ranges they are putting out their is 50K to 2.25M in the USA alone.  That's too large a range to make any sense of what is coming out of our talking heads. 

I'll give it another week and half, mainly because that is how much longer it will take for the leaves  to come out.  But if I dont get real answers by then, I'm not going to listen to these draconian measures anymore.

One big reason no one can give you an better estimate is because of people like you that are getting bored sitting inside and "only give it another week" before saying fuck it...I'm going back to business as usual. One thing you know for sure is that people act like you and say fuck it...many more people will die...maybe even you.

Tell me, are you starving right now? Are you in pain in someway. Why exactly do you need to break loose out of your home? Just to stick it to the man?

[JoeKitchen]

It would be interesting to see how cutting back on restrictions and a return to work could happen on the ground. There's no mystery anymore about how risky the bug is, so if the word came out that people should go back to work today, I wonder how many people would say, "Ok, you first." People might see it as that first wave out of the trenches.

You keep repeating that we don't know how many will die. Well, maybe not to the third decimal but I'd say we have a pretty good idea by now, or the rest of us do, I don't know why you don't. The blanket statement that experts don't all agree is pure silliness. We know enough so we know what to do today. When new data emerge we'll know more. That is how everything works.

Point me to the studies Rob. 

Show me a definitive amount (or even just a small range, not the it could 50K or 2M more).

I have been looking and no one can. But you know what, people's lives will be completely ruined if we continue this, and for you to discount that is very discouraging. 

[Craig Lamson]

Craig,

Not sure what you are saying, I have only been writing about the past, not a word about the future. I have only commented about what Trump has not done the way he should have as the commander in chief of the most powerful country on earth.

I still haven't see the slightest bit of relevant answer to the points I have been making. Which can only be understood as an acknowledgement that his behavior has indeed fallen far short of expectations.

Regarding this article, the irony is indeed delicious... you stress that taking measures late and way too partially in Japan is a problem (which I agree 1,000% with) but fail to criticize your own president for having strongly contributed for the very same issue in the US...

In won't even comment on the tone of your replies...

Finally, I once again wonder what Trump would have to do or not to do in order to loose support from fanatics of your caliber. Obviously contributing to the death of thousands of elderly citizens isn't considered by you as a major issue...

Cheers,
Bernard

Oh my Bernard, you can’t even remember your own words, your illness must be more pronounced that I originally thought.  Let’s review shall we?  You have told us how you believe Trumps actions will cause more death and more damage to the economy.  How do you know the FUTURE Bernard?  Sheesh, you may be beyond help. 

I love this you say “ should have done” like you again know the future.  Your problem is that you have not made any “relevant points”.  60 percent of Americans find Trump is doing a good job, last time I looked. 

You don’t understand our system of government, And you don’t understand our people.  All you understand is your hate for a Trump.  It’s kind of sad.  What’s sadder is you even told Joe, and a good swath of America by extension they we complicit in the death of scores of Americans by supporting their President.  That’s pretty sick Bernard.  In fact it’s disgusting.

You spend multiple posts denigrating Americans because they don’t share your hatred of Trump, yet your own country is a mess.  You say Trump did the same but the reality is just the opposite.  His administration was truthful with the American people about the dangers of this virus from day one.  Everyone had the information they needed to make informed decisions.  He acted within the scope of his legal ability, and at times offered hope the results might not be as bad as feared.  He spend massive amounts of time speaking with the Governors of every State and him and his team of experts offered them advice and information.

Ok, you don’t like...BFD.  You don’t get a vote .

I hope you find a cure for your sickness.

[JoeKitchen]

One big reason no one can give you an better estimate is because of people like you that are getting bored sitting inside and "only give it another week" before saying fuck it...I'm going back to business as usual. One thing you know for sure is that people act like you and say fuck it...many more people will die...maybe even you.

Tell me, are you starving right now? Are you in pain in someway. Why exactly do you need to break loose out of your home? Just to stick it to the man?

You want me to stick to it, start showing me concrete numbers. 

If you cant, too bad.  I'd rather keep the economy afloat then having it all burn down due to some maybe this or maybe that, we just dont know, you cant trust models anyway but you need to do this just because jargon.

[Craig Lamson]

That is one of the most irrational, desperate posts I have come across here on LuLa or anywhere else - which isn't surprising, as I don't visit many places where I know I will be exposed to mass stupidity cloaked as loyalty to some brand or another. I just wrote cloaked: perhaps that's a mistake, and the two are actually one and the same thing.

On Sky News a couple of minutes ago I watched Trump say that the wearing of masks had been suggested as a voluntary exercise to prevent infection being spread person to person, but that he probaby wouldn't be wearing one himself.

In one sentence he shows himself the most dumb leader any nation has been cursed to bear. A direct appeal to the myth of the cowboy, the superhero who is beyond all challenges, too brave (read stupid) to take precautions that could not only save himself but fellow citizens. Why is it dificult to comprehend that wearing a mask keeps your flying sneeze or snot inside your mask and not flying into the eyes, noses or mouths of those near you? And vice versa!

You can blame who you like for the place you are in, but boy, you cannot convincingly deny you are being led by a goat. And that goat can't even lead by good example, but only do so by exhibiting the very worst one he can find.

Rob it’s a CHOICE, not a demand.  Now if Trump spends time out with people who have not been vetted for the virus, and he’s not wearing a mask, complain to your hearts content.  To critique him from not wearing a mask in his home and office is simply silly.

Btw, do you know they are now using the 15  min test for the virus for people who see the President?

And while we are on the complaining kick, did your Sky News people have on masks?  Do the press at Trumps briefing wear masks? 

[Craig Lamson]

Craig, it seems like under a declared "State of Emergency" you guys are "subjects" and your President does become a "king"...

Senate Report 93-549

War and Emergency Powers Acts     https://famguardian.org/Subjects/LawAndGovt/Articles/SenateReport93-549.htm

"These proclamations give force to 470 provisions of Federal law. These hundreds of statutes delegate to the President extraordinary powers, ordinarily exercised by the Congress, which affect the lives of American citizens in a host of all-encompassing manners. This vast range of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule the country without reference to normal Constitutional processes.

Under the powers delegated by these statutes, the President may:
seize property; organize and control the means of production; seize commodities; assign military forces abroad; institute martial law; seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens."

If this is the case then, the way I see it, the haphazard response of the USA is in the hands of one person...

Try again.  National Emergency Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act

[Alan Klein]

The ethical question seems perfectly clear, you tell the truth about your history and current condition, and trust the medical professionals to make the correct decision.  Whether you choose to act ethically or not while confronting your fear is another question.   But I wouldn't want my lie to cost someone else their life (and possibly more than one).

Yes.  Trust in God.  Good advice.  Thanks.

[KLaban]

At the greater expense of the economy, yes. 

But as I said, you speak as if you actually know how many more will die, but you dont.  No does, not even the medical experts.  Not a single person can give us any definitive answers, and I dont think we should sit back and watch the economy implode without any concrete answers on how many people we are saving by staying inside. 

As I said, the ranges they are putting out their is 50K to 2.25M in the USA alone.  That's too large a range to make any sense of what is coming out of our talking heads. 

I'll give it another week and half, mainly because that is how much longer it will take for the leaves  to come out.  But if I dont get real answers by then, I'm not going to listen to these draconian measures anymore.

Would you be willing to sacrifice your loved ones for the economy, or perhaps only those of others?