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Author Topic: Covid 19 Updates Part 2  (Read 83371 times)

Craig Lamson

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #940 on: April 03, 2020, 09:30:10 pm »

You are not answering to the crystal clear point I am making.

You are focusing on what Trump cannot legally do instead of looking at what he could have done, should have done, but did way too late.

In doing so you are implicitly agreeing to me point about the total inability of Trump to act as a President. Confirming in the process his screaming shortcomings as well as the huge devaluation of the presidential function he has caused.

All that to avoid having to admit that your support to him was badly musguided and is resulting in the worsening of both the health of thousands of Americans and the economy.

Cheers,
Bernard

You must be a bit under the weather tonight Bernard, your post reeks of fantasy.  Are you suffering from a fever?

Your point was crystal clear...let me referent your feverish mind...

You said
“If we ignore your advice and hear what Trump is saying then we listen to a president who didn’t deny the pandemic... but denied way too long (at least 2 weeks) it was a real threat and one whose resolution should take immediate precedence over the economy. Which should have meant immediate wide spread confinement.

Once again, if you have the capacity, Trump never denied the pandemic, his experts did not deny the pandemic and told the worldv of their findings and suggestions.  Every Governor had access the the information.    The law limits the Presidents actions. He did and is doing what he can.  The rest belongs to the States.  Welcome to the USA.

Now I know, given your possible condition, that this information might not be received by you in a coherent manner and for that You have my best wishes on a speedy recovery.



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James Clark

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #941 on: April 03, 2020, 09:33:02 pm »

James why not answer my questions about Kushner?  Is he failing? If he’s not and he’s doing a good job, as it appears he is, what the problem?

We don't know he's doing a good job yet - time will tell. We DO know that the guy that put him charge has a history of not selecting people on their merits, and selected someone with seemingly no relevant skills for the position, or canning people that DO know their jobbed tell him when he's doing stupid crap.  That's a big flag for anyone looking at it objectively.

Take Trump out of it. 

CEO A is in charge of hiring someone to quickly mobilize a series of unrelated multinational corporations to accomplish the manufacture and distribution of just discovered Product B, because Product B cures cancer and also stops aging.   

who do you hire to coordinate that:

A) your daughter's husband, who has no experience in manufacturing, logistics, or distribution, but thinks you're a really cool surrogate dad; or
B) Someone who has successfully overseen the production and national rollout of a new widget?; or
C) Someone who has a record of successfully assembling and managing massive public/private cooperative ventures?

Hint:   You choose B or C.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 09:37:42 pm by James Clark »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #942 on: April 03, 2020, 09:35:19 pm »

Someone who has a record of successfully assembling and managing massive public/private cooperative ventures?

Hint:   You choose B or C.

If they want the job.
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hogloff

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #943 on: April 03, 2020, 09:36:59 pm »

What would Trump do if the USA was under attack from a foreign nation that might take out 100,000 to 240,000 civilians? Would he have the authority to go over the states...or would each state worry about what to do on their own.

Right now the states are under attack and projections of loss of life more than twice as many lives as the Vietnam war. Surely something can be done to get everyone in step.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #944 on: April 03, 2020, 09:44:02 pm »

WOOHOO?

LOL. It has? Trump's grade-school thinking and petty tweeting is the New World Order?  WTF is wrong with you?

Well Trump said that we cant trust China in 2016, and everyone agrees. 

Trump said you dont really have a country if you dont produce your own stuff, and well, this virus is showing the world he is right.

Trump warned against the Iran deal, namely because Iran would not follow it and still attack the West, and he was right. 

Trump moved the embassy, even though every expert thought it would lead to war.  Trump did not think this, and he was right. 

Trump decided to push forward a Middle East plan that no longer thought of the Palestinian as refugees after 60+ years and did not make a two state solution a major part of it.  All the experts thought it was destine to failure, but the majority of the Middle Eastern countries sign on, showing Trump was right. 

Shall I go on? 

You're stuck in a past that has all been proven to be antiquated and false. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 09:47:05 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #945 on: April 03, 2020, 09:44:10 pm »

Do you have any proof?

I say you don't get because the "restrictions" are actually minimal and common sense. Not everything revolves against Trump but you seem to think otherwise. Every decision has to be political and has to be for or against Trump. It must tough to imagine enemies where they aren't, world is a little more than black or white.
Yes, I heard her. She talks in her sleep.  Proof?  Give me a break!

JoeKitchen

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #946 on: April 03, 2020, 09:45:12 pm »

I'm sorry Bernard, but it looks like Craig is now the savior.   ;)
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Alan Klein

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #947 on: April 03, 2020, 09:47:29 pm »

Are you simply not listening or is really so far beyond your ken that it’s becoming silly?

The President does not have the authority to tell every State they must issue a lockdown.  Only each State can order such a thing.  Trump could  suggest it, like he has done with his 15 and now 30 days to stop the spread guidelines.  He’s not a King Bernard and I find it highly amusing that recently you accuse him of ignoring the constitution and wanting him removed from office and how you want him to ignore the constitution.  The irony is delicious.

Every Governor was in the loop.  Every State was privy to the same information. They all made the choices they thought were correct. It was their call.  That’s how it works here. 

That’s the reality Bernard.  You seem oblivious to that fact.

Now, In case this too is beyond you, it is estimated 75 to 85 million people died in WWII. As bad as this is it will be nowhere near the level of WWII .



Craig, you know that if he directed all the states to comply with his rule, all these same people would call him a dictator violating the constitution.  Whatever he does is wrong.  His enemies always take the contrarian view regardless what it is.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #948 on: April 03, 2020, 09:50:08 pm »

Craig, you know that if he directed all the states to comply with his rule, all these same people would call him a dictator violating the constitution.  Whatever he does is wrong.  His enemies always take the contrarian view regardless what it is.

It really amazes me that through out the last three years Trump has been called a dictator in disguise, a real Hitler, looking to take complete control over the country, and now, when the opportunity if perfect for him to do, he has resisted it in every single situation. 

Meanwhile, every Dem who told he was going to become a dictator has been calling for the government to completely take over business and our lives.  Funny. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #949 on: April 03, 2020, 09:52:18 pm »

We don't know he's doing a good job yet - time will tell. We DO know that the guy that put him charge has a history of not selecting people on their merits, and selected someone with seemingly no relevant skills for the position, or canning people that DO know their jobbed tell him when he's doing stupid crap.  That's a big flag for anyone looking at it objectively.

Take Trump out of it. 

CEO A is in charge of hiring someone to quickly mobilize a series of unrelated multinational corporations to accomplish the manufacture and distribution of just discovered Product B, because Product B cures cancer and also stops aging.   

who do you hire to coordinate that:

A) your daughter's husband, who has no experience in manufacturing, logistics, or distribution, but thinks you're a really cool surrogate dad; or
B) Someone who has successfully overseen the production and national rollout of a new widget?; or
C) Someone who has a record of successfully assembling and managing massive public/private cooperative ventures?

Hint:   You choose B or C.
Well, Kushner did pick a pretty wife and rich father-in-law.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #950 on: April 03, 2020, 09:53:43 pm »

In other news, I never thought the USA would encourage citizens to rat out their neighbors like in the USSR, but LA Mayor Garcetti had other plans. 

This week the mayor's office in LA put out a statement asking for people to turn in anyone not complying with the stay at home order.  His exact words, “you know the old expression about snitches,” Garcetti said this week. “Well, in this case, snitches get rewards.”  He added: “We want to thank you for turning folks in and making sure we are all safe,” he said.

Eric Michael Garcetti, our new man of steel. 

Like a lottery ticket you'll never loose, scratch a socialist and you'll find a tyrant underneath every time. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 09:59:11 pm by JoeKitchen »
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hogloff

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #951 on: April 03, 2020, 10:01:25 pm »

In other news, I never thought the USA would encourage citizens to rat out their neighbors like in the USSR, but LA Mayor Garcetti had other plans. 

This week the mayor's office in LA put out a statement asking for people to turn in anyone not complying with the stay at home order.  His exact words, “you know the old expression about snitches,” Garcetti said this week. “Well, in this case, snitches get rewards.”  He added: “We want to thank you for turning folks in and making sure we are all safe,” he said.

Eric Michael Garcetti, our new man of steal. 

Like a lottery ticket you'll never loose at, scratch a socialist and you'll find a tyrant underneath every time.

Really, you call it ratting out. I call it people being selfish when they go out and don't abide by the rules. For God's sake people's lives are at stake. Maybe when it hits closer to home, some people here might realize the seriousness of this virus.

I'm sorry...but your comment about ratting it is totally wrong. Tell me, would you describe to police the person you saw running away from a shooting? You have no idea he was the one doing the shooting...but would you describe him, or would you feel you are ratting out someone? How is this different...that person out and not abiding by the rules could be in the process of killing someone.
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John Camp

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #952 on: April 03, 2020, 10:04:25 pm »

You talk of management style not being acceptable.  To who?  He's president.  He reports to no one except the people.  He demands loyalty and excellence.  If you fail at either, you're out.  No second chances.  No getting a break for past performance or being nice to his kids.  That's how he operates. It's his way or the highway.   If they don't like it, they shouldn't take the job.  If they haven't figured that out yet, than their not smart enough to work for him. 

Only his enemies care who he hires and who he fires and how he runs the office.  All the public cares about are results.  The public sees a president every day on stage who is in command.  He's sticking his neck out being up there.  No one else will get the credit or the blame if he fails.  He knows that.  That's why he's taking charge so publicly.  For the election.  If he succeeds, he'll be re-elected.  If he fails, he won't be.  It's that simple.  The rest is conversation.

I can understand some guys' affection for Trump; we saw the same thing with Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mussolini, Stalin, etc., millions of devoted followers, along with millions of dead, so Trumpism is not exactly new on the world stage. We just have to hope that we only wind up with 240,000 dead, because of his shortcomings, instead of millions. But, as most people here know by now, he's not my favorite guy. At least he did one fine thing, when he appointed his son-in-law, Jared Kuchner, as Virus Czar. Some people criticized JK after he nearly bankrupted his own family company by buying one of the most expensive towers in Manhattan for $1.8 billion (a record at the time) at the very, very peak, the pinnacle, the apex of the housing market there, a year before the entire real estate market went in the dumper.  A week after he bought it, it was worth about a third less. But hey, that was a learning experience, obviously put to use in his cultivation of a close and essential friendship with MBS, the Saudi prince, which really saved our bacon when the Saudis and the the Russians decided to get rid of the American fracking industry. And I'm certainly happy that his much ballyhooed negotiation to arrange peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis worked out as well as it did. I'm a little less certain when he said that that New York didn't need all those ventilators, because he'd done some calculations that proved they didn't. He got this extensive business and governmental insight at Harvard, where he spend four years after his father, the billionaire, donated a couple million bucks to the place, which I'm sure had nothing to do with the admission of a guy who barely made it through high school.

So I think we're actually looking pretty good, here.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:18:57 pm by John Camp »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #953 on: April 03, 2020, 10:09:39 pm »

Really, you call it ratting out. I call it people being selfish when they go out and don't abide by the rules. For God's sake people's lives are at stake. Maybe when it hits closer to home, some people here might realize the seriousness of this virus.

I'm sorry...but your comment about ratting it is totally wrong. Tell me, would you describe to police the person you saw running away from a shooting? You have no idea he was the one doing the shooting...but would you describe him, or would you feel you are ratting out someone? How is this different...that person out and not abiding by the rules could be in the process of killing someone.

I'm just amazed no one has used the "will anyone think of the children" line yet, what I occasionally hear when indulging in my Bourgeois cigar activities. 

And yes, I'm calling it ratting out, because that is exactly what it is.  Especially when it has become blatantly obvious nobody, even the experts, knows their ass from a whole in the ground on this thing.  Fauci told us this week that you cant trust models, but then insisted that we need to lockdown because of the models.  LOL, that made sense. 

I have read too many articles today on experts doubting their own models, yet we are expected to continue to follow this horse shit? 

And your analogy is not an apples to apples comparison.  Immediate threat to life is very different then some invisible virus that well over 99% of which will survive and over 50% will not even have any symptoms, especially when not a single person anywhere in the world can give us any straight answers. 

Meanwhile, we get to watch very entertaining academy award and Oscar winning program of people's lives get completely economically ruined due to government actions. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:14:25 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #954 on: April 03, 2020, 10:10:17 pm »

What would Trump do if the USA was under attack from a foreign nation that might take out 100,000 to 240,000 civilians? Would he have the authority to go over the states...or would each state worry about what to do on their own.

Right now the states are under attack and projections of loss of life more than twice as many lives as the Vietnam war. Surely something can be done to get everyone in step.
The US Constitution gives sole authority to the president to be commander-in-chief of the armed forces.  So yes, he would not have to go to the states to ask for any permission to order the country's defense.  However, an act of war requires Congressional approval.  The US Congress declares war for the entire country.  Individual states can neither make war or even make treaties with other countries.  That is reserved for the Federal Government.  Individual states can take action if they are attacked however.  The second amendment of the US Constitution allows each state to have a militia made up of its state's residents who are also constitutionally allowed to bear arms for private protection and to defend their state and country.  The militia today is each state's National Guard and Reserve Units. The president can call up these units in an emergency.

Here's a picture of of the state of Michigan's Air National Guard warthogs (A-10 Thunderbolts) getting reading for deployment to Afghanistan.  Notice the MI on the tail wing.  It stands for Michigan. 
https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/09/09/selfridge-airmen-prepare-for-afghanistan-deployment/

Craig Lamson

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #955 on: April 03, 2020, 10:11:40 pm »

What would Trump do if the USA was under attack from a foreign nation that might take out 100,000 to 240,000 civilians? Would he have the authority to go over the states...or would each state worry about what to do on their own.

Right now the states are under attack and projections of loss of life more than twice as many lives as the Vietnam war. Surely something can be done to get everyone in step.

His control is over Federal assets.  Not States assets. 

The internet has this amazing thing called “search”...it amazing what you can find there about Federal powers.

https://legal-planet.org/2020/03/18/presidential-power-in-a-pandemic/

https://reason.com/2020/03/18/police-powers-during-a-pandemic-constitutional-but-not-unlimited/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-emergency-powers-and-their-use




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John Camp

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #956 on: April 03, 2020, 10:12:30 pm »

Every once in a very rare while I agree with Joe on something. Americans shouldn't rat each other out.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #957 on: April 03, 2020, 10:14:55 pm »

We don't know he's doing a good job yet - time will tell. We DO know that the guy that put him charge has a history of not selecting people on their merits, and selected someone with seemingly no relevant skills for the position, or canning people that DO know their jobbed tell him when he's doing stupid crap.  That's a big flag for anyone looking at it objectively.

Take Trump out of it. 

CEO A is in charge of hiring someone to quickly mobilize a series of unrelated multinational corporations to accomplish the manufacture and distribution of just discovered Product B, because Product B cures cancer and also stops aging.   

who do you hire to coordinate that:

A) your daughter's husband, who has no experience in manufacturing, logistics, or distribution, but thinks you're a really cool surrogate dad; or
B) Someone who has successfully overseen the production and national rollout of a new widget?; or
C) Someone who has a record of successfully assembling and managing massive public/private cooperative ventures?

Hint:   You choose B or C.

Or you could choose A.  The President gets to choose, like it or not, and I know you don’t like it.  Did you read that Politico article I posted?  It appears quite even handed.
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James Clark

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #958 on: April 03, 2020, 10:15:49 pm »

Well Trump said that we cant trust China in 2016, and everyone agrees.
Not new thinking.

Trump said you dont really have a country if you dont produce your own stuff, and well, this virus is showing the world he is right.

Trump warned against the Iran deal, namely because Iran would not follow it and still attack the West, and he was right.
He wasn't right at all.  He blew up the deal and created instability where the was detente before.  He's a moron. 

Trump moved the embassy, even though every expert thought it would lead to war.  Trump did not think this, and he was right.
A risky ploy to suck up to idiot evangelicals that didn't lead to war.  Did anyone really think it would lead to war though? Really? Just more unrest in the ME, kind of like...   

Trump decided to push forward a Middle East plan that no longer thought of the Palestinian as refugees after 60+ years and did not make a two state solution a major part of it.  All the experts thought it was destine to failure, but the majority of the Middle Eastern countries sign on, showing Trump was right.
...this train wreck.  The majority of the ME has NOT signed on, because the whole plan is basically, "we really wanna recognize the annexation of the illegal settlements.  And Bibi is my friend - plus we love the same sort of graft. I mean, if you cannot wield a little unsavory power, what good is being president anyway.  Totally unfair what they're doing to Bibi, by the way. A lot of people are saying so."

Shall I go on?
Please.  I have a little more contempt to get out so I can have good weekend.

You're stuck in a past that has all been proven to be antiquated and false.

Not a damn thing has been proven.  We kept the peace for 70 years and built the most powerful nation the world has ever known with variations on my "antiquated" philosophy.  And now the poster boy for the Dunning Kreuger effect - a two-bit RE developer with a penchant for gold toilets who can barely read - thinks he knows better?  The only thing stupider than that is that some of you seem to agree.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:19:23 pm by James Clark »
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John Camp

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Re: Covid 19 Updates Part 2
« Reply #959 on: April 03, 2020, 10:16:47 pm »

The US Constitution gives sole authority to the president to be commander-in-chief of the armed forces.  So yes, he would not have to go to the states to ask for any permission to order the country's defense.  However, an act of war requires Congressional approval.  The US Congress declares war for the entire country.  Individual states can neither make war or even make treaties with other countries.  That is reserved for the Federal Government.  Individual states can take action if they are attacked however.  The second amendment of the US Constitution allows each state to have a militia made up of its state's residents who are also constitutionally allowed to bear arms for private protection and to defend their state and country.  The militia today is each state's National Guard and Reserve Units. The president can call up these units in an emergency.

Here's a picture of of the state of Michigan's Air National Guard warthogs (A-10 Thunderbolts) getting reading for deployment to Afghanistan.  Notice the MI on the tail wing.  It stands for Michigan. 
https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/09/09/selfridge-airmen-prepare-for-afghanistan-deployment/

Alan, my God, you've said some things here that you really need to revise. Don't let the NRA hear you telling people that the National Guard is the militia, because there goes the Second Amendment, which only protects arms for the "well-regulated militia." You should also note that the U.S. Congress hasn't declared war on anyone since World War II...they apparently weren't paying attention during Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I & 2 and Afghanistan (which isn't really our longest war, because, you know it isn't technically a war.) Without revision, you could get your Tea Party card taken away.
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