Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[Craig Lamson]

Appreciate the edit

It gives me some hope that even my friends on the right think this is a WTF move.  Probably there are some lefties out there among my fellow travelers that would be fine with Trump falling flat on his face in dealing with this, but I for one am not one of them, and find that abhorrent.  I hope dealing with the crisis is his (Trump's) greatest success (I mean, I guess hope Kushner comes through too, but...), and this action (letting Kushner into the middle of this) is really discouraging.

Why is it discouraging?  Sounds like Kushner is looking to find ways to end run the slow and crappy systems of the Federal government.  No one can say the Feds are a speedy bunch.  He's working on getting the private sector in the game.  Its not like he's a newcomer to the Trump admin.

Here is a Politico article on the subject.  They are generally a cennter publication.  Its a bit more nuanced that an opinion article that starts with a title, Trumps ignorant son-in law....

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/jared-kushner-coronavirus-response-160553

[Rob C]

Ever since Brexit, Rob has sold his soul to commies. No wonder you are welcoming him into your arms.

Slobodan, the only realistic explanation for your mind storms has to be that your water has been laced with hallucinogens.

My absolutely favourite politician ever was a certain Margaret Thatcher, a true blue who took on massive unions with the same verve and conviction as she did invading Argentinians armed with French missiles. She represented what I believe defines the real spirit of Conservatism. Sadly, she was subjected to the "et tu, Brut" treatment from her close fellow politicos. It might be said that the flower of British Conservatism started to wilt not a hundred years from then.

Today, there is no longer a Conservative Party in Britain. Instead, we have a charade modelled on the one running across the Atlantic. It can't even get its head around doing that without fucking up despite having its rôle models on-screen every blasted newscast that comes on the tv.

I'm afraid that politically, I have been totally disenfranchised. There is nobody left that strikes me as even remotely plausible.

[JoeKitchen]

In other news, I am reading that the theory this virus originated from the Wuhan lab is getting additional credit. 

Apparently, the suspect wet market this was thought to have originated from did not sell bats, and one of the first patients did not have any contact with bats.  However, for years that lab has been collecting bat corona viruses to study.  It is very plausible that someone accidentally got infected with one of these viruses and started spreading it in the community. 

One of the main sticking points with this theory originally was that the virus did not appear to be engineered.  However, in the scenario above, this critique would not matter since it was an accidental exposure of a naturally occurring virus. 

It could have been a total, yet accidental, screw up with lab protocol that brought us this. 

[Craig Lamson]

Kuchner said that the federal governments stockpile of equipment is "Our" stockpile, not the states. :-)

Well it actually is.  The Fed needs to be able have backup as well, and given where we are today they need to dole whats left out carefully and where it can be best used. 

The States have their own power and should have had a stockpile as well.

[hogloff]

Your side complained that his statement would get people to stop isolating and stop protecting themselves. Only people who hate Trump take what he said incorrectly.  You do that all the time because you hate the guy.  It blinds you to all reality.  Independents who don;t have an ax to grind listen to what he says in a human manner.  They don;t cherry pick and ascribe weird meaning to what he says.  Journalists who are in the business of listening to words know what he means. But they're also prejudiced against him and report nonsense.

It's not a matter of taking Trump literally...it's a matter of taking Trump seriously.

[JoeKitchen]

Ad space is getting interesting, right Rob?   

[faberryman]

Your side complained that his statement would get people to stop isolating and stop protecting themselves. Only people who hate Trump take what he said incorrectly.  You do that all the time because you hate the guy.  It blinds you to all reality.  Independents who don;t have an ax to grind listen to what he says in a human manner.  They don;t cherry pick and ascribe weird meaning to what he says.  Journalists who are in the business of listening to words know what he means. But they're also prejudiced against him and report nonsense.

I never complained that "his statement would get people to stop isolating and stop protecting themselves." Again, you are confusing me with someone else. That's twice today. If I said anything, it was that this idiot thinks this is going to be all over and everyone will be back at work in two weeks, either that or else he is just lying to us again.

[Craig Lamson]

Lot of stuff I like about the US, perhaps because I lived there for a short period. But the politics? Jeez it’s never ending, repetitive and boring as hell. I try to dredge up some interest now and again  because it sure seems to fascinate a lot of people and it horribly over reported in world news. The truth is I couldn’t really care less. (As some of us say)

Politics in the US is a cluster F...  Not doubt about it.  There is an election every two years so the process is endless.  And every year it seems to start sooner.  Factor in the lack of term limits other than for the President and thoe in power amass too much power. 

Give me a 4 year term for the house with 3 terms, 6 years for the Senate and 2 terms and 8 years for the President with 1 term.

It might cut down on some of the BS and endless campaigns

[Alan Klein]

Why is it discouraging?  Sounds like Kushner is looking to find ways to end run the slow and crappy systems of the Federal government.  No one can say the Feds are a speedy bunch.  He's working on getting the private sector in the game.  Its not like he's a newcomer to the Trump admin.

Here is a Politico article on the subject.  They are generally a cennter publication.  Its a bit more nuanced that an opinion article that starts with a title, Trumps ignorant son-in law....

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/jared-kushner-coronavirus-response-160553

Trump believes government is made up of a bunch of dummies.  After all, they hurt American industry by making bad trade deals and allowing China to out maneuver America in business.  So it's natural for him to ask private industry to help out. 

The big problem I have with Trump is that he believes in debt.  That's not unusual for real estate magnates who use debit to buy and build properties.  So he thinks nothing of the US borrowing and spending trillions.  And unlike private industry where you have to get money from others, the US government can also print trillions.  That's been going on for years.  Now the republican politicians, who use to have some idea of conservative economics, have joined the Democrats in a free for all grab bag of spending on everything by printing more American dollars.  It's going to bankrupt everyone's savings, retirement funds, and make salaries worthless.  China will win the war without firing a shot. 

Of course, Trump plans to take the printing press with him to Mar-a-lago when he leaves office.  He knows a good thing when he see it.

[Craig Lamson]

That many of its passengers are telling one another that everything is cool, that the best thing to do is go make another cheese, go shoot another camper van and, most certainly, invest in an extension to the armoury only adds drama to the background scenery. Some external observers even wonder if they are actually watching a very expensive and long-running commercial for a new Amazon or Netflix show.

Just to be clear, I've not worked shooting for 3 weeks now an have no plans of going out to shoot again until the end of April at the earilest.

[Alan Klein]

I never complained that "his statement would get people to stop isolating and stop protecting themselves." Again, you are confusing me with someone else. That's twice today.

I didn't say you said it. I said "your side" said it.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Cant say I disagree with any of this.  Why in God's name is the FDA still dragging their knuckles on this.  They need to be completely dismantled and rebuilt after this.  Their bureaucratic bull shit has screwed this country over up and down.

It is not the FDA.  The tests need to be validated and that's straight forward.  The companies don't want to do this.  You can distribute an unvalidated test but have to send along a disclaimer.  We don't want tests going out that are unreliable.  A lot of the tests that are registered with the FDA come from Asian suppliers and they don't have a working knowledge of FDA regs.  They would need a US partner

[James Clark]

Why is it discouraging?  Sounds like Kushner is looking to find ways to end run the slow and crappy systems of the Federal government.  No one can say the Feds are a speedy bunch.  He's working on getting the private sector in the game.  Its not like he's a newcomer to the Trump admin.

Here is a Politico article on the subject.  They are generally a cennter publication.  Its a bit more nuanced that an opinion article that starts with a title, Trumps ignorant son-in law....

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/jared-kushner-coronavirus-response-160553

It's discouraging because I've seen nothing in the last three years that indicates that Trump has any skill in making government actually work, or picking competent people, and because Jared Kushner has no outstanding qualifications beyond being related to the President. 

This is possibly one of the most important processes we'll see in my lifetime, and who's running it?  Not an expert in logistics, or procurement, or supply chain management, but his kid's husband, because.. why?

Listen - I'm a small-time CEO.  When I was still doing agency work, I ran a $10,000,000 company with a staff of about 40.  Chump change, really.  But you know what?  I didn't fire people for disagreeing with me, and I didn't look to my friends (or God help me, my family) to run my critical functions.  In fact, if I was hiring someone for a critical high-level position, I damn well searched hard for someone *better* than I was at that function, and if they told me I was wrong about something, I listened.

Compare and contrast to what you've seen in the last 3 years and tell me why I should have any faith in the choices being made?

[Craig Lamson]

It's discouraging because I've seen nothing in the last three years that indicates that Trump has any skill in making government actually work, or picking competent people, and because Jared Kushner has no outstanding qualifications beyond being related to the President. 

This is possibly one of the most important processes we'll see in my lifetime, and who's running it?  Not an expert in logistics, or procurement, or supply chain management, but his kid's husband, because.. why?

Listen - I'm a small-time CEO.  When I was still doing agency work, I ran a $10,000,000 company with a staff of about 40.  Chump change, really.  But you know what?  I didn't fire people for disagreeing with me, and I didn't look to my friends (or God help me, my family) to run my critical functions.  In fact, if I was hiring someone for a critical high-level position, I damn well searched hard for someone *better* than I was at that function, and if they told me I was wrong about something, I listened.   Compare and contrast to what you've seen in the last 3 years and tell me why I should have any faith in the choices being made?

Is he failing?  Does he have good people working with him, including military experts?   If he is screwing up, thats one thing but it appears he is doing a pretty good job.  Is he an expert in supply chain management or has he got the best guy he can find doing?  I would submit that Kushner is doing exactly what you have done, finding someone better than him for a specfic task, listening, and managing the process.  Question, why would you have a problem with friends or family if they were up to the task and you trusted them?  I would venture thats exactly WHY Trump has chosed both...more for trust than any other reason, and the outsiders have given him good reason not to trust them.

So your managment style differs from Trumps.  Ok, no problem.  Despite what some my think, the last three years look pretty good from my seat...we will see in short order about the virus thing. 

[James Clark]

Is he failing?

At what?  Look at his employee turnover.   Does he suck at hiring, or is he atrocious at retention?  Maybe both, but one has to be true. 

Does he have good people working with him, including military experts?

Fewer every week, seemingly.  Replaced by toadies that he "trusts" because they soft-pedal his ego.

If he is screwing up, thats one thing but it appears he is doing a pretty good job.

Because as best I can tell, your philosophy is that breaking government equals "doing a good job" because that means it gets out of the way.  That's cool and all, and there are, believe it or not, some cases where I would agree with you.  That's all fine and good and fun when we shoot the bull about taxes, political correctness and the government's role in directing social policy.  It's a little less fine when you need expert-level coordinated response for an honest-to-God emergency.

Does he have good people working with him, including military experts? Is he an expert in supply chain management or has he got the best guy he can find doing?  I would submit that Kushner is doing exactly what you have done, finding someone better than him for a specfic task, listening, and managing the process.  Question, why would you have a problem with friends or family if they were up to the task and you trusted them?  I would venture thats exactly WHY Trump has chosed both...more for trust than any other reason, and the outsiders have given him good reason not to trust them.

This is the great unknown, right?  As I said, to this point, whatever our disagreement may be on policy, it's undeniable that Trump has either done a poor job recruiting talent, or a poor job retaining talent because of his ego.  Both are signs of a poor manager.  This has been the crux of my issues with Trump from the start.  I mean, sure, his social policy is retrograde, reactionary, and plays to the lowest common denominator, but fundamentally he is just a piss-poor manager of people and bad at looking at divergent points view.  He thinks he already knows everything. And that's a bad guy to have in charge of the world's biggest organization, where literal lives depend on his competency. Does it even matter?  Almost everyone that leaves the administration claims that he doesn't listen, doesn't learn, and has no interest in information that disputes his preconceived notions, and those that don't say that are still angling for, or part of, the entourage.  I'll be pleasantly surprised if he rises above that now.

So your managment style differs from Trumps.  Ok, no problem.  Despite what some my think, the last three years look pretty good from my seat...we will see in short order about the virus thing.

Good luck to us. 

[BernardLanguillier]

But, sadly for you, once again you missed it.  Trump denied nothing.  He had his science experts present their fact every day.  He still does.  You are lost in your hatred, which is a really sad thing.  What’s worse you decided to blame Joe and others for the virus deaths, which is beyond the pale.

Craig,

You are a smart person, why the urge to deny the obvious?

On the one hand you guys are telling us we should ignore Trump’s words and watch his actions? When we do this we see a president who did everything he could to delay actions to save his economy. With the obvious result of many un’eeded additional casualties and more impact to the economy. Those 2+ weeks were disastrous for lack of a better word.

If we ignore your advice and hear what Trump is saying then we listen to a president who didn’t deny the pandemic... but denied way too long (at least 2 weeks) it was a real threat and one whose resolution should take immediate precedence over the economy. Which should have meant immediate wide spread confinement.

Let me guess why you keep denying the obvious... because you know I am right but admitting to this would also be admitting that you were possibly wrong also on all the other things we hzve disagreed on these past months?

That’s not how I look at it.

I see a WW pandemic with complex interactions, I see one global planet and when the leader of a large and powerful country messes up lile Trump has on this corona pandemic, it impacts everyone. You, Joe, me,... so I don’t feel hatred for Trump, I am judging his performance on the biggest crisis he has had to face and it’s abysmal both in absolute terms and when compared to other leaders of large countries. Abysmal in his actions and words.

Cheers,
Bernard

[texshooter]

Only people who hate Trump take what he said incorrectly.

[LesPalenik]

By Easter people are going to start loosing it if we cant get concrete answers. 

Even with total lock down or a mild version, no one seems to be able to figure out the difference in death count.  Like if a partial lock down, like in Germany, will result in 2.5M vs. 150K for a total lockdown, I can see the argument for the lockdown.  But what if it is 200K vs. 150K; I think most would accept the 50K died to avoid a total economic collapse. 

I would keep it locked down a little bit longer.
I like the light road traffic and even grocery shopping. My local food store is clean, quiet, well stocked, hardly any people, pleasure to shop.
However, the skating rink and swimming pool are closed and there are no dances.

[BernardLanguillier]

I dont know about you guys, but trust in all of these medical experts is really starting to decrease with me.  There are just too many different results for it to make any sense. 

People are reviewing the models and it is apparent no one has any clue to what is going to happen regardless of what we do.  Many experts are even doubting their own models and Dr. Fauci said in an recent interview that you cant trust models anyway.  The ranges of possibilities are so large and significant between models, even between ones using the same inputs. 

On top of that, no one is talking about what the trade off should between damage due to the virus and economic damage.
ckdown.

Comon, give credit when credit is due. One person spoke at length about this trade of... and that’s Trump.

And for the longest time he decided that not risking impacting the economy was more important than taking strong measures to prevent the spread of the virus.

Well there is always going to be a major impact. The more you wait the bigger. With both many casualties and deeper wounds to the US and world economy.

As far as the complexity of modeling... everyone seems at least to agree that limiting interactions btwn people is the only known way to reduce the spread. Which requires strong and clear words and actions pronounced and taken timely. Both obvious issues with the way Trump managed the crisis.

Cheers,
Bernard

[JoeKitchen]

I would keep it locked down a little bit longer.
I like the light road traffic and even grocery shopping. My local food store is clean, quiet, well stocked, hardly any people, pleasure to shop.
However, the skating rink and swimming pool are closed and there are no dances.

Always look on the bright side of life. 

I’m fine a lot more free time to enjoy a cigar and a glass of wine.