Pages: 1 ... 123 124 [125] 126   Go Down

Author Topic: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS  (Read 86407 times)

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2480 on: November 01, 2020, 12:26:36 pm »

All we're doing is slowing down the spread.

I thought that was what we have been trying been trying to do for the past seven or so months.  I seem to remember in the beginning Fauci said something about flattening the curve so the health care system wasn't overwhelmed.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2481 on: November 01, 2020, 12:28:50 pm »

I thought that was what we have been trying been trying to do for the past seven or so months.  I seem to remember in the beginning Fauci said something about flattening the curve so the health care system wasn't overwhelmed.
I covered that in my post.  Didn't you read the whole thing?

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2482 on: November 01, 2020, 12:34:57 pm »

Who debunked herd immunity?  I thought it's still a valid theory.

Theoretically, it seems like a valid theory.
A more practical solution is to avoid virus introduction in the first place. Here is an article explaining how Taiwan managed to avoid this plague:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-taiwan-beat-the-coronavirus.html

New Zealand applied similar measures and it has had similar success.

In contrast, USA totally disregarded the scientific advice and recommendations and made the situation much worse by allowing mass street demonstrations and superspreader rallies.
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2483 on: November 01, 2020, 12:39:14 pm »

I covered that in my post.  Didn't you read the whole thing?

Of course. I wouldn't want to miss a word of your posts.

I thought the way you characterized what we were doing by saying " All we're doing..." was minimizing what we have been trying to do.

And I don't know why you prefaced your remarks by saying "Leaving aside a vaccine" when no one anywhere is leaving it aside. A vaccine is pretty much the whole ball of wax. Why would we have a discussion leaving it aside?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 04:42:05 pm by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2484 on: November 01, 2020, 01:38:41 pm »

Theoretically, it seems like a valid theory.
A more practical solution is to avoid virus introduction in the first place. Here is an article explaining how Taiwan managed to avoid this plague:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-taiwan-beat-the-coronavirus.html

New Zealand applied similar measures and it has had similar success.

In contrast, USA totally disregarded the scientific advice and recommendations and made the situation much worse by allowing mass street demonstrations and superspreader rallies.
Apparently the article states that Taiwan had been working on its plan for years.  I assume it's because they've had issues before. They've used masks for years.  BUt I think the main issue is Taiwan's population is all Chinese. They're a single people, a single culture, and singular in the way they think about things and handle them.  America is huge, too diverse.  We have around 150+ different languages and cultures. We're an immigrant nation.  We have a history of individualism, for better or worse.  We don't like following rules.  Thar may account for the way Europe is affected as well.  Each country handles it  little differently.  Some Europeans are rioting over the rules unlike Taiwanese and other Asians who kowtow to their governments. The bottom line is Americans aren't Taiwanese.  Neither are Europeans and they're suffering just as much.  I don't understand why you're always picking on America?  Europe's no better. I've read that the summer vacation and travel have caused the second wave there.  Why did the EU and all the leaders there allow that?  Europe has beaches too after all. 

Are the New Zealanders similar?  Are they a single people. Both NZ and Taiwan are also islands that can more easily limit international travel.  They're isolated unlike Europe and America.  DNA may have something to do with these things as well.  We really should study what works and what doesn't and whether culture and history have their effects.  But to keep castigating America seems to border on politics.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2485 on: November 01, 2020, 01:42:51 pm »

Of course. I wouldn't want to miss a word of your posts.

I thought the way you characterized what we were doing by saying " All we're doing..." was minimizing what we have been trying to do.

And I don't know why you prefaced your remarks by saying "Leaving aside a vaccine" when no one anywhere is leaving it aside. A vaccine is pretty much the whole ball of wax.
My post explains all those things.  Sorry you don't understand.

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4764
    • Robert's Photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2486 on: November 01, 2020, 01:45:26 pm »

Apparently the article states that Taiwan had been working on its plan for years.  I assume it's because they've had issues before. They've used masks for years.  BUt I think the main issue is Taiwan's population is all Chinese. They're a single people, a single culture, and singular in the way they think about things and handle them.  America is huge, too diverse.  We have around 150+ different languages and cultures. We're an immigrant nation.  We have a history of individualism, for better or worse.  We don't like following rules.  Thar may account for the way Europe is affected as well.  Each country handles it  little differently.  Some Europeans are rioting over the rules unlike Taiwanese and other Asians who kowtow to their governments. The bottom line is Americans aren't Taiwanese.  Neither are Europeans and they're suffering just as much.  I don't understand why you're always picking on America?  Europe's no better. I've read that the summer vacation and travel have caused the second wave there.  Why did the EU and all the leaders there allow that?  Europe has beaches too after all. 

Are the New Zealanders similar?  Are they a single people. Both NZ and Taiwan are also islands that can more easily limit international travel.  They're isolated unlike Europe and America.  DNA may have something to do with these things as well.  We really should study what works and what doesn't and whether culture and history have their effects.  But to keep castigating America seems to border on politics.

There are no races, you know, there's only DNA.
Logged
--
Robert

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2487 on: November 01, 2020, 01:54:12 pm »

Apparently the article states that Taiwan had been working on its plan for years.  I assume it's because they've had issues before. They've used masks for years.  BUt I think the main issue is Taiwan's population is all Chinese. They're a single people, a single culture, and singular in the way they think about things and handle them.  America is huge, too diverse.  We have around 150+ different languages and cultures. We're an immigrant nation.  We have a history of individualism, for better or worse.  We don't like following rules.  Thar may account for the way Europe is affected as well.  Each country handles it  little differently.  Some Europeans are rioting over the rules unlike Taiwanese and other Asians who kowtow to their governments. The bottom line is Americans aren't Taiwanese.  Neither are Europeans and they're suffering just as much.  I don't understand why you're always picking on America?  Europe's no better. I've read that the summer vacation and travel have caused the second wave there.  Why did the EU and all the leaders there allow that?  Europe has beaches too after all. 

Are the New Zealanders similar?  Are they a single people. Both NZ and Taiwan are also islands that can more easily limit international travel.  They're isolated unlike Europe and America.  DNA may have something to do with these things as well.  We really should study what works and what doesn't and whether culture and history have their effects.  But to keep castigating America seems to border on politics.

Actually, I like America and Americans.
I understand and also admire the individualism. But justifying no compliance with a sound and serious medical advice is not a sign of responsible nation, it is more a hallmark of an immature, rebellious and suicidal teenager. You personally take all possible precautions against the virus, so why do you endorse all the maskless mass gatherings? Is it the freedom to get exposed to the virus?
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2488 on: November 01, 2020, 01:54:53 pm »

Apparently the article states that Taiwan had been working on its plan for years.  I assume it's because they've had issues before. They've used masks for years.  BUt I think the main issue is Taiwan's population is all Chinese. They're a single people, a single culture, and singular in the way they think about things and handle them.  America is huge, too diverse.  We have around 150+ different languages and cultures. We're an immigrant nation.  We have a history of individualism, for better or worse.  We don't like following rules.  Thar may account for the way Europe is affected as well.  Each country handles it  little differently.  Some Europeans are rioting over the rules unlike Taiwanese and other Asians who kowtow to their governments. The bottom line is Americans aren't Taiwanese.  Neither are Europeans and they're suffering just as much.  I don't understand why you're always picking on America?  Europe's no better. I've read that the summer vacation and travel have caused the second wave there.  Why did the EU and all the leaders there allow that?  Europe has beaches too after all. 

Are the New Zealanders similar?  Are they a single people. Both NZ and Taiwan are also islands that can more easily limit international travel.  They're isolated unlike Europe and America.  DNA may have something to do with these things as well.  We really should study what works and what doesn't and whether culture and history have their effects.  But to keep castigating America seems to border on politics.

I've known a few rugged individualists in my life, and, based on my experience, they all stopped at red lights, so they generally seemed to know a good idea from a bad idea when it came to their health and safety. Maybe that would be a good research project, to determine the percentage of rugged individualists who wear masks and the percentage of those who don't. Then we might be able to determine whether our pathetic response to the coronavirus is attributable to an ethos of rugged individualism or just plain stupidity. Or a lack of leadership at the federal, state, and local level.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 02:10:33 pm by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2489 on: November 01, 2020, 02:23:30 pm »

Actually, I like America and Americans.
I understand and also admire the individualism. But justifying no compliance with a sound and serious medical advice is not a sign of responsible nation, it is more a hallmark of an immature, rebellious and suicidal teenager. You personally take all possible precautions against the virus, so why do you endorse all the maskless mass gatherings? Is it the freedom to get exposed to the virus?
First, it seems that the young in Europe are just as individualistic and adventurous as the young in America.  And why are Europeans rioting in the street about the rules if they're so smart and sensible? 

Second, I never endorsed maskless mass gatherings?  I said let people act on their own accord, hopefully responsibly as they see fit.  We don't need the government to force us how to live to stay alive.  We're not stupid.  I'm going to the hospital tomorrow in NYC for a CT scan and then to see a doctor there.  Frankly, I'd rather not go because I put myself in danger.  But I'm weighing the dangers of being in a hospital environment with sick people who might be sick with Covid, with getting a test I should have had last August.  We all have to balance risks and rewards.  I don't want an unfeeling bureaucrat telling me what to do.  Additionally the hospital set up rules  that they feel are appropriate.  They don't need the government.  They aren't stupid either.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2490 on: November 01, 2020, 02:31:50 pm »

I've known a few rugged individualists in my life, and, based on my experience, they all stopped at red lights, so they generally seemed to know a good idea from a bad idea when it came to their health and safety. Maybe that would be a good research project, to determine the percentage of rugged individualists who wear masks and the percentage of those who don't. Then we might be able to determine whether our pathetic response to the coronavirus is attributable to an ethos of rugged individualism or just plain stupidity. Or a lack of leadership at the federal, state, and local level.
Your arguments are political in nature due to the election.  The speed of vaccine research was helped by good leadership as the top.  So was getting PPE equipment in place that was in short supply in the beginning.  The main reason it's spreading is because its a very infectious disease that's difficult to control and limit.  There's only so much that can be done. 

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2491 on: November 01, 2020, 02:50:20 pm »

Your arguments are political in nature due to the election.  The speed of vaccine research was helped by good leadership as the top.  So was getting PPE equipment in place that was in short supply in the beginning.  The main reason it's spreading is because its a very infectious disease that's difficult to control and limit.  There's only so much that can be done.

What does any of that have to do with my comments about rugged individualism and its relation, if any, to our pathetic response to the coronavirus?  You brought the subject up to begin with, and now you are just changing the subject because you don't want to, or can't, respond to my comments. It is always the same with you.

My wife had to come in and help me off the floor I was laughing so hard when you said my arguments were political in nature due to election.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 02:57:59 pm by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2492 on: November 01, 2020, 03:06:51 pm »

What does any of that have to do with my comments about rugged individualism and its relation, if any, to our pathetic response to the coronavirus?  You brought the subject up to begin with, and now you are just changing the subject because you don't want to, or can't, respond to my comments. It is always the same with you.

My wife had to come in and help me off the floor I was laughing so hard when you said my arguments were political in nature due to election.


Your wife always has to help you off the floor. 

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2493 on: November 01, 2020, 03:17:51 pm »

Your wife always has to help you off the floor.

That was really pretty lame. You can do better.  And don't think I, and probably everyone else, didn't notice that you dodged my questions.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 03:21:44 pm by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2494 on: November 01, 2020, 03:34:37 pm »

That was really pretty lame. You can do better.  And don't think I, and probably everyone else, didn't notice that you dodged my questions.
Sorry.  I shouldn't have brought your wife into.  That wasn't called for.  You ask too many questions where I already gave the answer like you didn't read my post.  It's annoying.   

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2495 on: November 01, 2020, 03:49:10 pm »

Sorry.  I shouldn't have brought your wife into.  That wasn't called for.  You ask too many questions where I already gave the answer like you didn't read my post.  It's annoying.

I didn’t take offense. I just thought it was a lame response. That ill-advised post of yours was a response to my previous post wherein I asked you several questions. You still haven’t answered any of them. Or the questions in my post previous to that either. You have this habit of changing the subject instead of answering questions. Do you think no one notices?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 05:35:59 pm by faberryman »
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2496 on: November 01, 2020, 04:24:40 pm »

Theoretically, it seems like a valid theory.

Sure, the herd immunity theory is just like the theory that you can get your team of hikers to the bottom of the mountain by everyone jumping off the next precipice you come to. Perfectly valid, but probably not the best course of action, even if a couple do survive the fall. So you look at other ways to achieve the objective. Well, except for ace radiologist Scott Adams, Trump's medical advisor and his hand selected member on the administration's coronavirus task force, who is encouraging everybody to jump. I read an article the other day that in August Dr. Birx, dear old Dr. Birx, the scarf lady, said she wasn't going to sit in on any more meetings where Scott Adams was present. So that probably explains why you haven't seen or heard from her in months. I wish I had saved that link.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 04:55:32 pm by faberryman »
Logged

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2497 on: November 01, 2020, 05:02:26 pm »

Chinese... singular in the way they think about things

Disgusting

Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2498 on: November 01, 2020, 05:12:41 pm »

I didn’t take offense. I just thought it was a lame response. That ill-advised post was a response to my previous post wherein I asked you several questions. You still haven’t answered any of them. Or the questions in my post previous to that either. You have this habit of changing the subject instead of answering questions. Do you think no one notices?
I don't have to answer your questions of which there are too many.  You're not interviewing me.  Make your points and I'll make mine. 
Pages: 1 ... 123 124 [125] 126   Go Up