COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS

[faberryman]

We will not be able to solve the problem until people start doing what they are supposed to do. Here is an example: 700 idiots go to a party at an airbnb in New Jersey. This is an example of "American Exceptionalism". Exceptionally dumb.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/us/new-jersey-airbnb-house-party-covid-trnd/index.html

[Alan Klein]

Children May Carry Coronavirus at High Levels, Study Finds

The research does not prove that infected children are contagious, but it should influence the debate about reopening schools, some experts said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/health/coronavirus-children.html

[Alan Klein]

We will not be able to solve the problem until people start doing what they are supposed to do. Here is an example: 700 idiots go to a party at an airbnb in New Jersey.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/us/new-jersey-airbnb-house-party-covid-trnd/index.html

Yeah, they're jerks.  But how will it be better once you send kids to schools and bring back workers to businesses?

[hogloff]

Is that your plan or have you done it?  While you're being optimistic, you really don't know what's going to happen until you start it.  I wouldn't be bragging until schools and businesses have been running a few weeks.  Then check back with us and give us a report.

At least there is a plan.

[Alan Goldhammer]

How to you run an economy at 2/3rds?  Today, it was reported the the US had a second quarter GDP down 33%, the worst in history.  Of course, the US Federal Reserve just prints more money and is handing it out to people not making a salary.  How long can the Dutch do that?  We can't do it much longer ourselves as we'll be totally neutered which may be why some many people want us to keep our economy shut down.  In any case, people have to live and eat.  Me?  As a senior, I could just continue being locked up until they get a vaccine.   

Let me try to make this clear and I am also a senior.  About 1/3 of the people in the US won't go to restaurants, movies, sporting events and so on.  the economy is not going to come back to 100% until we get a) herd immunity, b) vaccine, or c) a good oral antiviral drug that anyone suspected of contacting COVID-19 can take.  I see nothing that points to (c).  (a) can be achieved but with further mortality and even then there will still be continued small outbreaks.  (b) is achievable but the timeline is not known and we also do not know how potent the vaccine will be.

Nobody wants the economy shut down but there are some businesses that clearly will not make it and there will be continued unemployment at a high level.  That's the blunt fact.  Even getting the economy back to 90% is still a disaster for a lot of people whose jobs are gone forever.

[Alan Klein]

At least there is a plan.

We have a phased plan here in New Jersey.  I think we're up to Phase IV.  NY and CT and other states have plans too.  This problem reminds me of what World Heavyweight fighter Mike Tyson said about plans.  "All my opponents come to my fights with a plan.  Their plans go away the first time I hit them in the face."

[hogloff]

We have a phased plan here in New Jersey.  I think we're up to Phase IV.  NY and CT and other states have plans too.  This problem reminds me of what World Heavyweight fighter Mike Tyson said about plans.  "All my opponents come to my fights with a plan.  Their plans go away the first time I hit them in the face."

We were discussing getting kids back to school. I haven't seen any coherent plan for this...just fist pounding saying "it will happen".

[Alan Klein]

We were discussing getting kids back to school. I haven't seen any coherent plan for this...just fist pounding saying "it will happen".

Each state is developing their plans and will handle it differently.  That's good.  It will show which methods works best.  If you do one plan on a national basis, and it's not the best plan, you won't know if there's a better way.  One of the advantages of a Federal system like America's. 

[Alan Klein]

Here's part of the problem with getting kids back to school. It's not just a political or medical decision.

Teachers Are Wary of Returning to Class, and Online Instruction Too

"Unions are threatening to strike if classrooms reopen, but are also pushing to limit live remote teaching. Their demands will shape pandemic education."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/us/teacher-union-school-reopening-coronavirus.html

[hogloff]

Here's part of the problem with getting kids back to school. It's not just a political or medical decision.

Teachers Are Wary of Returning to Class, and Online Instruction Too

"Unions are threatening to strike if classrooms reopen, but are also pushing to limit live remote teaching. Their demands will shape pandemic education."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/us/teacher-union-school-reopening-coronavirus.html

The school plan in BC involved the unions, health professionals as well as the government. Jointly came up with the plan.

[hogloff]

Each state is developing their plans and will handle it differently.  That's good.  It will show which methods works best.  If you do one plan on a national basis, and it's not the best plan, you won't know if there's a better way.  One of the advantages of a Federal system like America's.

Yes, but Trump is threatening to withhold any federal funds for schooling if the schools don't open up immediately. Is that really leaving it up to the states on how and when to open up?

[Alan Goldhammer]

I have a daughter who is a primary school special education specialist.  The students she works with really only respond to in class instruction.  the big question is how to open schools safely.  The National Academy of Sciences did a major paper on this that you can read HERE.  The recommendations are reasonable but the associate implementation costs are great.  Our synagogue runs a nursery school for children under 5 years of age.  In order to provide a safe environment they had to raise the tuition from $12K to $17K which is a significant increase.  The French International school is about 1/2 mile from our house.  They went to the county for a permit hearing yesterday to bring nine portable class rooms plus a generator on site so they would have extra rooms to provide proper physical distancing.  Even with this addition they have to go to one week on one week off for the students to assure safety.

I have also looked at this and class size needs to be dropped down to about 12 students per room which is a reduction of at least 50% in size.  Now maybe this is only needed for 6-12 months depending on viral outbreaks and the availability of a vaccine.  the bigger question is who is going to pay for all of this?  I am not one who wants to see things shut down but the costs to do things safely are quite high.

[hogloff]

I have a daughter who is a primary school special education specialist.  The students she works with really only respond to in class instruction.  the big question is how to open schools safely.  The National Academy of Sciences did a major paper on this that you can read HERE.  The recommendations are reasonable but the associate implementation costs are great.  Our synagogue runs a nursery school for children under 5 years of age.  In order to provide a safe environment they had to raise the tuition from $12K to $17K which is a significant increase.  The French International school is about 1/2 mile from our house.  They went to the county for a permit hearing yesterday to bring nine portable class rooms plus a generator on site so they would have extra rooms to provide proper physical distancing.  Even with this addition they have to go to one week on one week off for the students to assure safety.

I have also looked at this and class size needs to be dropped down to about 12 students per room which is a reduction of at least 50% in size.  Now maybe this is only needed for 6-12 months depending on viral outbreaks and the availability of a vaccine.  the bigger question is who is going to pay for all of this?  I am not one who wants to see things shut down but the costs to do things safely are quite high.

The costs to do them unsafely is even higher.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Regarding schools in Portugal there is discussion about implementing a mixed system. Some classes can be taught remotely, so that students stay at home at least a few days every week. Also, to avoid crowding public transports, there is talk of offsetting school schedules and work schedules.

My kids are in University, and from mid-March to mid-July they had remote classes and exams. Wasit ideal? No. But it can work.

Pre-primary schools (up tp 5 years old) have reopened in 1st June, so far I only heard about 1 or 2 outbreaks, promptly taken care of.

[Alan Klein]

Yes, but Trump is threatening to withhold any federal funds for schooling if the schools don't open up immediately. Is that really leaving it up to the states on how and when to open up?

Decisions on opening up will be made locally.  Most education funding is local - state, county, town, not Federal.  55% of my property taxes pays for schools in my town.  All additional costs have to be paid by homeowners or local governments who are already broke.  To say we should do anything required misses the point that it costs a lot of money, money that people and government already don't have. 

[Alan Klein]

Regarding schools in Portugal there is discussion about implementing a mixed system. Some classes can be taught remotely, so that students stay at home at least a few days every week. Also, to avoid crowding public transports, there is talk of offsetting school schedules and work schedules.

My kids are in University, and from mid-March to mid-July they had remote classes and exams. Wasit ideal? No. But it can work.

Pre-primary schools (up tp 5 years old) have reopened in 1st June, so far I only heard about 1 or 2 outbreaks, promptly taken care of.

A discussion here in America is whether it's right for colleges to be charging full tuition costs for on-line instruction?  What are they doing in Portugal regarding that and how do you feel about it?

[Jeremy Roussak]

I have deleted several overtly and purely political posts. The two posters have both been banned in the past for violating the rule against such activity in this thread, and their continued ability to post is hanging by a thread.

Jeremy

[TechTalk]

Each state is developing their plans and will handle it differently.  That's good.  It will show which methods works best.  If you do one plan on a national basis, and it's not the best plan, you won't know if there's a better way.  One of the advantages of a Federal system like America's.

How do you teach a virus about federalism or get it to recognize and respect state borders? My understanding is that viruses have only learned to do two things well: replicate inside of a host and transfer from one host to another. They get failing grades in geography and constitutional law.

[Alan Klein]

How do you teach a virus about federalism or get it to recognize and respect state borders? My understanding is that viruses have only learned to do two things well: replicate inside of a host and transfer from one host to another. They get failing grades in geography and constitutional law.

non-sequitar

[faberryman]

This is unbelievable. As a nation, have we collectively lost our minds? This is the second summer camp disaster I have posted about. Just wait until school starts.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/children-staff-georgia-overnight-camp-test-positive-coronavirus-cdc-says-n1235503