COVID-19 updates

[armand]

A centralized source for articles: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/research/coronavirus/

[Craig Lamson]

Gov. Tom Wolf orders all Pennsylvania businesses that aren’t ‘life-sustaining’ to close, will enforce order

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/spl/pennsylvania-shutdown-lifesustaining-businesses-tom-wolf-shut-down-20200319.html

[JoeKitchen]

Gov. Tom Wolf orders all Pennsylvania businesses that aren’t ‘life-sustaining’ to close, will enforce order

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/spl/pennsylvania-shutdown-lifesustaining-businesses-tom-wolf-shut-down-20200319.html

France may extend 14-day coronavirus lockdown, claims 'idiots' breaking rules

So France cant even get their citizens to follow the rules, yet here in the USA ...

I seriously doubt this can be enforced.  Philly police wont arrest thieves, drug dealers, pros and primps, but will punish citizens who do something legal under normal circumstances.  I'm telling you, after talking to a few neighbors today, unless people start dropping like flies, no one is going to follow this for more then two weeks, three at the most. 

At some point, no is going to care what the governor says.  I can tell it is already starting to boil over.  Even a doctor who lives on my block does not think the public will allow this to last much longer. 

Make plans accordingly if you are in a group that could be effected seriously by this. 

[chez]

France may extend 14-day coronavirus lockdown, claims 'idiots' breaking rules

So France cant even get their citizens to follow the rules, but here in the USA ...

I seriously doubt this can be enforced.  Philly police wont arrest thieves, drug dealers, pros and primps, but will punish citizens who do something legal under normal circumstances.  I'm telling you, after talking to a few neighbors today, unless people start dropping like flies, no one is going to follow this for more then two weeks, three at the most. 

At some point, no is going to care what the governor says.  I can tell it is already starting to boil over.

Quiet here. Downtown has some people working, but not many out walking. Some people walking the trails around town. Grocery stores offering online ordering and home delivery. No signs of any unrest...our head Doctor that does a daily conference on TV is very direct and a calming voice.

Don't people understand that this whole isolation is to prevent people from falling dead. Either the message is not getting across or the people just don't have the ability to understand the situation. In either case a sad situation if people will break their isolation as they'll then see their wish of people dropping dead come true.

[JoeKitchen]

Quiet here. Downtown has some people working, but not many out walking. Some people walking the trails around town. Grocery stores offering online ordering and home delivery. No signs of any unrest...our head Doctor that does a daily conference on TV is very direct and a calming voice.

Don't people understand that this whole isolation is to prevent people from falling dead. Either the message is not getting across or the people just don't have the ability to understand the situation. In either case a sad situation if people will break their isolation as they'll then see their wish of people dropping dead come true.

It's human nature.

Instead of fighting it, I'd much rather see our public officials create plans that actually work with it.

I have been reading more and more that we may just all have to catch it anyway, much like chicken pox, and their are plenty of young people that would rather catch it now and just deal with it today then tomorrow.  Truth be told, if it does in fact require the majority of us to catch it and become immune to end it, I'm in that group and nearly everyone will be as well. 

[LesPalenik]

Sensible people should be able to walk on uncrowded streets and walkways, empty beaches or forest trails.
However, having beach parties and barbeque picnics or dancing in a tight tango embrace with a stranger would be irresponsible and stupid.

From German press on this very subject today:

Vice Prime Minister Joachim Stamp (FDP) therefore told SPIEGEL: "curfews are the last resort if sections of the population continue to behave irresponsibly and it is not possible to limit social contacts to a minimum with the measures taken to date." The Minister of Integration and Family is actually known for quiet statements. This time he says it clearly: "You have to say it brutally: If you don't stick to the rules now, you risk that the health system will be overloaded in a few weeks and, like in Italy, many people without oxygen masks will suffocate."

[JoeKitchen]

Sensible people should be able to walk on uncrowded streets and walkways, empty beaches or forest trails.
However, having beach parties and barbeque picnics or dancing in a tight tango embrace with a stranger would be irresponsible and stupid.

I agree, and I don't think this is an impossible thing to have people do for two three weeks. 

But the problem is it is unsustainable for more then that especially when our officials are not giving us timeframes of when it will be over. 

The best analogy I heard on this is it is like a diet.  If you tell people, listen, you need to go on a diet for a month, but after that you can slowly come off of it, most would be okay.  But if you tell people you need to completely change your whole life style and don't even question us when you can back back to your old ways!  Unless something serious happens, most just wont care after a month. 

Same thing here.  Our officials have not given us any info on how long this will last; they just expect us to do this indefinitely without an end plan in site.  Sure, there will be some diehards, some nanny state people, that will listen, but most wont give a shit after two or three weeks.  That's it!  If our elected officials actaully want us to listen, they need to tell us how long this will last and what the end game is. 

We have a better chance of making this isolation go even longer with mostly everyone following it if we know now the timeframe and end game.  If not, it will collapse sooner then we think.  And dont give me we just dont know the end game right now, because most wont care about that either, most want certainty and something to plan off of. 

[chez]

It's human nature.

Instead of fighting it, I'd much rather see our public officials create plans that actually work with it.

I have been reading more and more that we may just all have to catch it anyway, much like chicken pox, and their are plenty of young people that would rather catch it now and just deal with it today then tomorrow.  Truth be told, if it does in fact require the majority of us to catch it and become immune to end it, I'm in that group and nearly everyone will be as well.

Don't you understand that if everyone catches it today...many magnitudes more people will die because the medical community cannot deal with such an influx. Not only people that have the virus will die, so will people that need any kind of emergency or icu care. Are you so selfish that you'd rather get over it quickly along with the herd and carry on your old normal life and and not care about your neighbors dying

[LesPalenik]

If we can learn anything from China and South Korea, 45 days lockdown would be the most effective period.
2 weeks may help to slow down the disease, but there will be still enough viruses to get it started again.

[chez]

I agree, and I don't think this is an impossible thing to have people do for two three weeks. 

But the problem is it is unsustainable for more then that especially when our officials are not giving us timeframes of when it will be over. 

The best analogy I heard on this is it is like a diet.  If you tell people, listen, you need to go on a diet for a month, but after that you can slowly come off of it, most would be okay.  But if you tell people you need to completely change your whole life style and don't even question us when you can back back to your old ways!  Unless something serious happens, most just wont care after a month. 

Same thing here.  Our officials have not given us any info on how long this will last; they just expect us to do this indefinitely without an end plan in site.  Sure, there will be some diehards, some nanny state people, that will listen, but most wont give a shit after two or three weeks.  That's it!  If our elected officials actaully want us to listen, they need to tell us how long this will last and what the end game is. 

We have a better chance of making this isolation go even longer with mostly everyone following it if we know now the timeframe and end game.  If not, it will collapse sooner then we think.  And dont give me we just dont know the end game right now, because most wont care about that either, most want certainty and something to plan off of.

New virus, new grounds...hard to do. And how well people isolate themselves really influences how long we need to keep isolating. But for you Joe, let's say 6 months...go hibernate now.

[chez]

If we can learn anything from China and South Korea, 45 days lockdown would be the most effective period.
2 weeks may help to slow down the disease, but there will be still enough viruses to get it started again.

But that was a full locdown. From things I've seen on the net, we are far from what China and South Korea citizens committed to.

[JoeKitchen]

New virus, new grounds...hard to do. And how well people isolate themselves really influences how long we need to keep isolating. But for you Joe, let's say 6 months...go hibernate now.

Just showing how much you dont care to try and understand how real people will react to this.  This whole thing will fail apart unless an end game is given or people start dying in large numbers. 

[JoeKitchen]

Don't you understand that if everyone catches it today...many magnitudes more people will die because the medical community cannot deal with such an influx. Not only people that have the virus will die, so will people that need any kind of emergency or icu care. Are you so selfish that you'd rather get over it quickly along with the herd and carry on your old normal life and and not care about your neighbors dying

LOL man.  It is like trying to beat a dead horse with you. 

You clearly don't understand human nature and how most people react.  I'm just trying to explain to you how society will respond without a clear end game.  It's not me; it's people in general. 

I'm just advocating that we recognize it and plan around it, otherwise we'll be worse off when nobody cares what you or any other expert says. 

Regardless of the concern or the request to self-isolate, my wife (while running errands today) saw the sidewalks filled on main streets.  She was surprised to see so many out.  They need to plan around this unchangeable human flaw now, before it is too late. 

[elliot_n]

This whole thing will fail apart unless an end game is given or people start dying in large numbers. 

You keep saying this. Do you really believe that people will NOT start dying in large numbers?

[chez]

Just showing how much you dont care to try and understand how real people will react to this.  This whole thing will fail apart unless an end game is given or people start dying in large numbers.

Sorry, but I just don't believe people in the US are so naive. Have they not seen what's happening in Italy...and this is even after drastic isolation measures. I give people more credit than that.

[chez]

LOL man.  It is like trying to beat a dead horse with you. 

You clearly don't understand human nature and how most people react.  I'm just trying to explain to you how society will respond without a clear end game.  It's not me; it's people in general. 

I'm just advocating that we recognize it and plan around it, otherwise we'll be worse off when nobody cares what you or any other expert says. 

Regardless of the concern or the request to self-isolate, my wife (while running errands today) saw the sidewalks filled on main streets.  She was surprised to see so many out.  They need to plan around this unchangeable human flaw now, before it is too late.

Ummm...I saw how people acted in China, in South Korea, in Italy...none are running wild in the streets with six shooters strapped to their hips. Maybe it's your narrow view of humanity that is wrong.

[JoeKitchen]

You keep saying this. Do you really believe that people will NOT start dying in large numbers?

I think it is inevitable, and just like in Italy, that is when people will start to take this seriously enough to self-isolate, especially without a clear plan that explains exactly how long this will last. 

With that said, I think the real limit here is two, possibly three, months.  Since this only kills the elderly and those with other conditions, that is the real limit for everyone else to become numb to death to the point where they just move on.  It be different if healthy people were being killed here. 

This is just how I feel most will react to this. 

[chez]

You keep saying this. Do you really believe that people will NOT start dying in large numbers?

I get a feeling Joe would be relieved if people start dying in droves.

[JoeKitchen]

Ummm...I saw how people acted in China, in South Korea, in Italy...none are running wild in the streets with six shooters strapped to their hips. Maybe it's your narrow view of humanity that is wrong.

Well you're wrong about all of this. 

People in China were forced through threat of being prisoned or killed to stay inside.  A much more serious threat that what we could get away with here.  So circumstance were very very different. 

People in Italy only stayed inside after death was clearly behind the walls, which is how I feel the rest of the world will go, especially given the idea we can just lock it down without an end game. 

South Korea did not shut it down like you suggest.  They had wide spread testing available and required those with the virus to be quarantined and monitored them to make sure.  However everyone else went about business as usual.  Their economy did not come to a halt. 

[chez]

I think it is inevitable, and just like in Italy, that is when people will start to take this seriously enough to self-isolate, especially without a clear plan that explains exactly how long this will last. 

With that said, I think the real limit here is two, possibly three, months.  Since this only kills the elderly and those with other conditions, that is the real limit for everyone else to become numb to death to the point where they just move on.  It be different is healthy people were being killed here. 

This is just how I feel most will react to this.

You are so wrong if you think only older people will die. When you hospital is totally overrun, people of all ages which cannot get the right care because the doctors are all busy or the equipment is all busy...you will just lie in a hallway and slowly die, be it from a heart attack, a car accident, or whatever else that makes you arrive in emergency or the icu.