COVID-19 updates

[Alan Klein]

Does ultraviolet kill viruses?

[Robert Roaldi]

Sam Harris has made two recent podcasts about Covid-19 available free of charge.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/190-respond-coronavirus/

https://samharris.org/podcasts/191-early-thoughts-pandemic/

Be prepared, there is some criticism of the US government's early response and it's very uncomplimentary.

[JoeKitchen]

they already have as has been shown of all the college aged people still partying in Florida.  Maybe they get mild cases and maybe they come home and infect other family members including elder relatives.

I will, this is being stupid.  I spent my spring breaks rowing 8 hours, sleeping 14 and eating for 2 everyday. 

Just to put some numbers out their, death toll is at 100 today in the USA since our first case two months ago.  102 will die in car accidents today alone.  7400 will die overall.  A full 1000 people died of the Swine Flu before anyone really started talking about it. 

Just some perspective. 

[Robert Roaldi]

The problem is experts have differing opinions.  Ever listen to stock market reviews?  It's why we have bears and bulls.  Why do we have such differing opinions in these forums? Same with many scientific and economic things.  Then you have politicians and newspapers who spin the news and facts to fit their own agenda.  The poor guy on the street like us is just confused and finds it hard to believe anyone.  That's why politicians, media, and so many other have so low levels of trust.  Also, even experts can't read the future.  They don't have crystal balls.  This seems like a new situation we haven;t faced before.  Also, fighting the last war may not be the way to fight the new one.  History has a way of surprising us.   God too.

Your generalizations are obscuring the facts. Your assertion that stock market reviews are somehow "scientific" is simply ludicrous. It's an irrelevant analogy.

No one cares what politicians and spin doctors say. This discussion stopped being political a while ago, but no one told the politicians. The experts in epidemiology have been singing from the same songbook for a long time, it's just no one listened hard enough. And this is most definitely NOT something new. The progress of the disease is tracking just like the previous ones. This is very well known, it's just that no one (or almost no one) reads the books or watches the science documentaries. Sometimes, experts can predict the future very accurately.

Listen to those two podcasts I referred to above from Sam Harris. When they get to the spot when they criticize the past performance of the Trump administration, do your best to ignore it and persevere, listen to the rest. You complain that you don't have the right information, well it's all there, just go listen to it. No one is hiding anything from you.

[JoeKitchen]

Stanford epidemiologist John Ioannidis is calling for a little more calmness and not to throw caution into the wind when it comes to the economy. 

A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

I'll be keeping a cool head, looking at this analytically and following his lead here.  It just seems like there is so much hysteria out there, and on this forum, which I will be tuning out this point forward.  You have a logical response based on real numbers, I'm all ears, otherwise it's not something I will be caring too much about.  Neither I nor my wife can make sense of this hysteria and we both feel it is not a good thing to feed into it anymore. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Does ultraviolet kill viruses?

Probably, so if you're someplace warm, walk around naked for a while. Post the pics. 

[Raul_Rodriguez]

Young people die too, the Chinese doctor who was a whistleblower and died was 34 or 36. And if you don't die it doesn't mean that you are doing great. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger doesn't apply too well in medicine.

A flu caused me some mild but irreversible hearing lost in my left ear around 8 years ago, I was only 30 at the time. So yeah, you get well but these things sometimes leave scars.

[JoeKitchen]

As I mentioned before, in Philly only major felonies police will be making arrests.  For instance, all drug related offenses are now not going to warrant an arrest. 

Lets say in Philly, taking these measure, 100 people are saved from the WuFlu, but 100 people overdose and die. 

Was it worth it? 

[Robert Roaldi]

As I mentioned before, in Philly only major felonies police will be making arrests.  For instance, all drug related offenses are now not going to warrant an arrest. 

Lets say in Philly, taking these measure, 100 people are saved from the WuFlu, but 100 people overdose and die. 

Was it worth it?

The sooner they de-criminalize drugs and get them out of the hands of the cartels the better off everyone will be.

My point is that your comparison doesn't illuminate much.

During that same timeframe, how many will die in traffic accidents or in gun shootings, etc. If that action prevents contagious contact with 1000 other people, it might make sense. All we ever do is balance things.

I think you're worrying far too much about what some lame jurisdiction is trying to do on beaches and gold courses. It's a dumb thing to do but is it anything more than a forgettable hiccup in the grand scheme of things? Who is going to launch an armed revolution over access to a beach? This is a non-issue that will disappear soon. I mean, seriously, who is going to enforce it, they probably already can't stop all the people running red lights, which really is actually dangerous. There are more important battles to fight.

[JoeKitchen]

The sooner they de-criminalize drugs and get them out of the hands of the cartels the better off everyone will be.

My point is that your comparison doesn't illuminate much.

During that same timeframe, how many will die in traffic accidents or in gun shootings, etc. If that action prevents contagious contact with 1000 other people, it might make sense. All we ever do is balance things.

I think you're worrying far too much about what some lame jurisdiction is trying to do on beaches and gold courses. It's a dumb thing to do but is it anything more than a forgettable hiccup in the grand scheme of things? Who is going to launch an armed revolution over access to a beach? This is a non-issue that will disappear soon. I mean, seriously, who is going to enforce it, they probably already can't stop all the people running red lights, which really is actually dangerous. There are more important battles to fight.

Your eyes are closed if you actually think this way.   

I am very libertarian and use to feel the same way; if someone wants to use drugs, why would that bother me attitude.  Then CA, for all intents and purposes, legalized all drug use.  You can't arrest someone in CA with out them having at least $1000 worth of drugs on them, and you cant mandate a person go to rehab.  What did we get for this?

A homeless crisis.  Shit and piss on the street.  Parks covered in needles and other drug paraphernalia.  Addicts sleeping in store doorways, shutting down businesses.  With the exception of weed, you cant make drugs legal without serious effects on the community.  I have completely changed my point of view on this in the last year. 

And no, homelessness does not cause drug use.  It is drug use that causes homelessness; ask any addiction specialists. 

I was listening to a pod cast on this today.  You know cant take away a homeless person's possessions in CA.  Sounds like a good policy until you note the fact that if a homeless person hoards his feces, it is legally considered a possession and you cant take it away from him.  Many homeless people hoard their feces. 

[armand]

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/03/17/donations-masks-hospitals-ppe

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/16/health/doctors-coronavirus-health-care-hit-harder/index.html

[faberryman]

What are you planning to do with your $2000 check from the government?

[JoeKitchen]

What are you planning to do with your $2000 check from the government?

Invest it is the stock market.  Could easily double that by the end of the year. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Does ultraviolet kill viruses?

Yes, and it's one of the reasons why viral infections are less common during summer months.  Heat, UV and humidity reduce viral population in the environment.  The best thing continues to frequent hand washing.  Make sure you also frequently apply a moisturizer to prevent the skin from drying out.

[KLaban]

Sadly it's likely there will be contributors to LuLa who will die due to the selfishness of their neighbours.

Happily it's likely there will be contributors to LuLa who will live due to the selflessness of their neighbours.

[Robert Roaldi]

Oh give me a break, your eyes are closed if you actually think this way.   

I am very libertarian and use to feel the same way; if someone wants to use drugs, why would that bother me attitude.  Then CA, for all intents and purposes, legalized all drug use.  You can't arrest someone in CA with out them having at least $1000 worth of drugs on them, and you cant mandate a person go to rehab.  What did we get for this?

A homeless crisis.  Shit and piss on the street.  Parks covered in needles and other drug paraphernalia.  Addicts sleeping in store doorways, shutting down businesses.  With the exception of weed, you cant make drugs legal without serious effects on the community. 

And no, homelessness does not cause drug use.  It is drug use that causes homelessness; ask any addiction specialists.

At no point in my adult life (I'm about to be 67) was there ever a time when I couldn't get any drug I wanted with a couple of phone calls. And I don't use any.

They can't keep drugs out of prisons. Where all the doors are locked and you know everyone who goes in or out.

The "war on drugs" hasn't halted or even much slowed down the flow of drugs. Not for a minute. People have always been able to get anything they wanted despite the fact that most countries on earth criminalize drugs. Criminal drug cartels have become a large economic force in the world since the war on drugs began, maybe because of the war on drugs some argue.

Laws and law enforcement have not prevented anyone from being able to buy illegal drugs. This is even true in Tehran, a place with more stringent laws than the US.

I have no idea what's going on in California. Maybe all the country's indigents move there because of the weather, for all I know. Your description of the root problem there is almost certainly incomplete, at best.

How can there be anyone left who thinks that what we've done and continue to do is working? Where is the evidence.

[LesPalenik]

they already have as has been shown of all the college aged people still partying in Florida.  Maybe they get mild cases and maybe they come home and infect other family members including elder relatives.

The beaches and bars are closed now, so all the college aged people will be partying indoors in their hotel rooms and apartments.

Spring break may be in full swing, but now it’s getting a buzz-killing dose of coronavirus reality.
Both Fort Lauderdale and Miami Beach, where spring breakers were expected to flood into town through early April, are closing their beaches in an attempt to contain the spread of COVID-19. Both cities are also ordering bars and restaurants to close by 10 p.m. and cap crowds at 250 people to get a grip on the pandemic.

“We cannot become a petri dish for a very dangerous virus,” Miami Beach Mayor Dan Gelber said Sunday during a joint news conference at Miami Beach City Hall. “Spring break is over. The party is over.”

Fort Lauderdale beach — the sandy section — will be closed from Harbor Drive north to Oakland Park Boulevard. Miami Beach will close the beach from Fifth Street to 15th Street —the uber trendy section known as South Beach. Even its public parking garages will close and an 11 p.m. curfew will be strictly enforced.

Fort Lauderdale’s rules are in effect now through April 12. Violators can risk a $500 fine or 60 days in jail.
“We clearly want to encourage voluntary compliance, but we could arrest or issue notices to appear if necessary," Fort Lauderdale City Manager Chris Lagerbloom said.

[JoeKitchen]

At no point in my adult life (I'm about to be 67) was there ever a time when I couldn't get any drug I wanted with a couple of phone calls. And I don't use any.

They can't keep drugs out of prisons. Where all the doors are locked and you know everyone who goes in or out.

The "war on drugs" hasn't halted or even much slowed down the flow of drugs. Not for a minute. People have always been able to get anything they wanted despite the fact that most countries on earth criminalize drugs. Criminal drug cartels have become a large economic force in the world since the war on drugs began, maybe because of the war on drugs some argue.

Laws and law enforcement have not prevented anyone from being able to buy illegal drugs. This is even true in Tehran, a place with more stringent laws than the US.

I have no idea what's going on in California. Maybe all the country's indigents move there because of the weather, for all I know. Your description of the root problem there is almost certainly incomplete, at best.

How can there be anyone left who thinks that what we've done and continue to do is working? Where is the evidence.

Not in my entire life have I ever talked to one criminal who said, you know what, that lock on that door kept me from trying.  Seriously, what are the stats on how many thefts are deterred by the presence of a lock.  I dont mean attempted and failed, I mean someone looking at a lock and saying, I'll move on to somewhere else.  You know what though, even given the lack of data, it does happen, and happens a lot. 

You would be foolish to think the laws dont deter drug use. 

Insofar as CA's problems, it is becoming more and more apparent it is due to drug addiction and the fact cops cant stop it. 

[JoeKitchen]

Sadly it's likely there will be contributors to LuLa who will die due to the selfishness of their neighbours.

Happily it's likely there will be contributors to LuLa who will live due to the selflessness of their neighbours.

Sounds very much like what the militant environmentalists were campaigning on all last year. 

What if this sparks a war?  Not that difficult to do so under stressed economic conditions.  Those dead solders and innocent civilians wont recover either Keith. 

[LesPalenik]

Does ultraviolet kill viruses?

Only if you wear a speedo.