Impeaching Donald Trump

[Craig Lamson]

Ok.  So contemporary accounts from the EU, before anyone had any reason to slant the coverage, are “weak” but retroactive claims from Glenn Beck and John Solomon are solid?  That’s your claim?

Oh they all count James.  You take them as a whole.  And yes the accounts you used are very weak given the complexity of the issue.  But i guess for some its just easier to read a few quick articles rather than really look.  But hey if that works for you, have at it. 

[Alan Klein]

OK, I'll challenge your whataboutism just one more time. But then it really is time for bed.
He took America to the moon, ensuring the admiration of the entire world.  Stared down Russian adventurism in Cuba, ensuring the admiration of the entire world.
He published his book Profiles in Courage, which won a Pulitzer Prize.  Trump had his books written for him, but claimed authorship. (see "cheats at golf", above)
What shall we ask her?  She was a movie star, not a political actor.

 Clinton presided over the longest period of peacetime economic expansion in American history.  During the last three years of Clinton's presidency, the Congressional Budget Office reported a budget surplus—the first such surplus since 1969.  (since you're "thrilled" with such things)

 Johnson is ranked favorably by many historians because of his domestic policies and the passage of many major laws that affected civil rights, gun control, wilderness preservation, and Social Security, although he also drew substantial criticism for his escalation of the Vietnam War.

 But he did earn the respect of most of the world's politicians (and many of it's citizens) and incidentally rescue America (and possibly the western world) from the economic disaster resulting from corruption and greed fostered by previous administrations.

Good for you.  And all the others who put their pocketbooks ahead of their brains.

Peter, I was there and remember the "staring down the Russian missiles" nearly started a nuclear WWIII.  Because of Kennedy's Bay of Pigs fiasco, Castro invited the Russians to install their missiles in Cuba creating the crisis.  Kennedy's amateurish and weak response when he met Soviet Chairman Khrushchev convinced the Russian he had nothing to fear from Kennedy.  So he install the missiles, cementing the crisis.  You need to read some history to get the facts right.

Clinton lied to a grand jury about "not having sex with that woman" and lost his license to practice law besides getting impeached.

Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and started the VietNam war because of his lie that killed 58,000 Americans. 

Shall I go on?

[BernardLanguillier]

I would have no problem if he confirmed it, because in my opinion it’s still not impeachable.

Which must be the reason why the lawyers of Trump have insisted that the lack of a direct witness was a key aspect demonstrating his innocence... 

And also why Mitt Romney and Susan Colins are now requesting the testimony of Bolton...

You are making a lot of sense here Craig and demonstrating more objectivity. Yes, I am being ironic.

But I am not surprised, you are aligned with the "deep lie" approach of other key Republicans such as Alan Dershowitz who now claims that a crime is needed to impeach a president while he claimed the exact opposite before the impeachement of Bill clinton. Truth doens't seem to have any relevance for you guys, does it?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

[...]
Shall I go on?

Yes, you 'forgot' Bush (Sr & Jr) ...

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

American taxpayers don't give our dollars to foreign countries for nothing.  We expect something from them.  We're not in the charity business.  Certainly Trump isn;t.   Quid quo pros are perfectly normal.

But there was no Quid Pro Quo, according to Trump.

[RSL]

Which must be the reason why the lawyers of Trump have insisted that the lack of a direct witness was a key aspect demonstrating his innocence... 

Cheers,
Bernard

You probably need to think before you write, Bernard. His lawyers aren't saying anything about his "innocence." What they're saying is that an opinion isn't evidence. All we've heard or seen so far are opinions coming from people with bad cases of Trump derangement syndrome. It isn't evidence. It's the cheapest kind of hearsay and it's clearly biased.

[Alan Klein]

Yes, you 'forgot' Bush (Sr & Jr) ...

OK.  Jr lied about WMD and I'm not sure what Sr. did.  But the point is our presidents are far less than angels when it comes to personal and political deceptiveness.  Isn't that the definition of a politician?  Plus most of them are lawyers and well, no disrespect to any counselors here.  But they know how to spin a tale or two.  Trump has the burden of never have done politics and not being a lawyer.  So he's not smooth like the slippery and sleazy Schiff or Pocahontas.  Heck, President William Clinton was called Slick Willie in his home state of Arkansas before he moved on to bigger and better corruptions. So our people understand our pols pretty well.

[Alan Klein]

But there was no Quid Pro Quo, according to Trump.

He's entitled to his opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  I'm saying that calling for an investigation and threatening withholding foreign aid is acceptable when the Bidens may have broken American law. 

[Craig Lamson]

Which must be the reason why the lawyers of Trump have insisted that the lack of a direct witness was a key aspect demonstrating his innocence... 

And also why Mitt Romney and Susan Colins are now requesting the testimony of Bolton...

You are making a lot of sense here Craig and demonstrating more objectivity. Yes, I am being ironic.

But I am not surprised, you are aligned with the "deep lie" approach of other key Republicans such as Alan Dershowitz who now claims that a crime is needed to impeach a president while he claimed the exact opposite before the impeachement of Bill clinton. Truth doens't seem to have any relevance for you guys, does it?

Cheers,
Bernard

The Deep lie.  Wow.  Let’s be clear here. Trump wanted the investigations.   He had every right to want them.   In fact every American should have wanted them too.  If Biden is dirty, as it seems if one actually follows the evidence, then it’s a true National Security issue.  And Trump had every right to decided to hold aid for a time....he could have cancelled it if he wanted.  That’s truth. 

Ok, you hate Trump.   Good for you.   Many don’t.   

Romney and Collins.   What a surprise.  But it is what it is.  Witnesses could blow up in either sides faces.  Which is why attorneys seldom ask questions when they don’t know the answers.   

[Robert Roaldi]

Trump derangement syndrome.

I love it that people now have a handle to use.

[PeterAit]

More infantile behavior from this administration. After Pompeo fell to the floor and drummed his heels over unwanted questions from an NPR reporter, the State Dept. has taken a different NPR reporter off the press list for Pompeo's upcoming official trip to Ukraine.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/27/npr-reporter-pompeo-clash-plane-106969

[Alan Klein]

Which must be the reason why the lawyers of Trump have insisted that the lack of a direct witness was a key aspect demonstrating his innocence... 

And also why Mitt Romney and Susan Colins are now requesting the testimony of Bolton...

You are making a lot of sense here Craig and demonstrating more objectivity. Yes, I am being ironic.

But I am not surprised, you are aligned with the "deep lie" approach of other key Republicans such as Alan Dershowitz who now claims that a crime is needed to impeach a president while he claimed the exact opposite before the impeachement of Bill clinton. Truth doens't seem to have any relevance for you guys, does it?

Cheers,
Bernard

The NY Times and others on the left always have an October surprise.  They drag out information that they supposedly got at the last minute to damage the other side.  They do this every October before the November elections, hence the term.  They did it with Justice Kavanaugh.  Who's the reporter who did it against Bush, I think he was from CBS, and lost his job.  It's a smear campaign based on rumor that's hard to counter.  You think the public would have learned already and not be fooled so easily. 

[RSL]

I love it that people now have a handle to use.

Right, Robert. And it quite accurately describes the current mental condition of Democrats.

[PeterAit]

Yes, you 'forgot' Bush (Sr & Jr) ...

Boys, boys...this is silly. You can take any president in history and find both good and bad things that he did.

[Alan Klein]

Boys, boys...this is silly. You can take any president in history and find both good and bad things that he did.

That's something we finally agree on. 

[PeterAit]

But there was no Quid Pro Quo, according to Trump.

The problem isn't the existence of a quid pro quo. The problem is that it was for Trump's personal gain.

[Robert Roaldi]

More infantile behavior from this administration. After Pompeo fell to the floor and drummed his heels over unwanted questions from an NPR reporter, the State Dept. has taken a different NPR reporter off the press list for Pompeo's upcoming official trip to Ukraine.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/27/npr-reporter-pompeo-clash-plane-106969

Oh man, those reporters must be onto something for sure!

Does the administration think that the press corps is the government's marketing department?

[Alan Klein]

The problem isn't the existence of a quid pro quo. The problem is that it was for Trump's personal gain.

The issue is whether what he did was legal.  Getting a side benefit does not make it illegal.  We all do things for different reasons.  But we can't get into the heads of people to try to determine these things.  Since the Bidens appear to have done something illegal, the president, any president, is allowed to follow up to ask for an investigation. 

Let me give you another example.  Let's say someone apparently hurts a person who's a minority in an apparent hate crime.  So a president calls for an investigation knowing that he will gain political points from the voters.  Is that allowed?  Well, of course.  Because the president has the authority to call for an investigation of apparent crimes even though he gets a side benefit politically.  He can walk and chew gum at the same time. The problem here was that Biden opened himself up to an investigation by not recusing himself and using his office to help in what appears his son's financial interest.  He was warned by Obama and other key democrats to not get involved in the corruption in Ukraine because his son was involved.  Had he not, we wouldn't be discussing this because the president would not have called for an investigation.

[Peter McLennan]

Boy the brain washing runs deep in you.

Amazing, innit?  What historical fact can do?

...and yes it is late and I was up at 5 so I'll be happy to rebut your "whataboutyisms" tomorrow.

Breathlessly awaiting your point-by point rebuttal of my answers to your request.

[Chris Kern]

I'm saying that calling for an investigation and threatening withholding foreign aid is acceptable when the Bidens may have broken American law.

What "American law" are you referring to?  The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (15 U.S.C. §78dd-1),* prohibits certain American business entities from paying bribes to officials of other countries.  I'm not aware that President Trump or even any of his most ardent defenders has accused former Vice President Biden of violating it or any other federal statute.

The issue of Hunter Biden's business dealings in Ukraine was raised in 2015 by career officials of the U.S. State Department, who were concerned that it created the appearance of a conflict of interest for the then vice president.  (Biden-père could only have had an actual conflict of interest if he had personally been receiving some of the income paid by the Ukrainian company to Biden-fils, which no one has ever alleged.)  When the State Department contacted Biden's staff to discuss the issue, an aide reportedly declined to raise it with the vice president, saying Biden didn't have the "bandwidth" to deal with Hunter Biden's business arrangements in Ukraine while his other son was dying of cancer.
___
*In 2017, President Trump reportedly told then Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to "get rid of the law" because it is "just so unfair that American companies aren’t allowed to pay bribes to get business overseas."  Tillerson had to explain to Trump that an act of Congress is required to repeal a law.