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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 138093 times)

Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3380 on: January 27, 2020, 05:20:46 pm »

Not Trump.  He can hardly put five words together in a sentence.  This is not an opinion, this is an observation.

Nice attempt at deflection.  Now why not answer the question?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3381 on: January 27, 2020, 05:24:00 pm »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-bolton-idUSKBN1ZP0VD

How are you Trump supporters going to explain us why the Republicans will not ask Bolton to testify?

Cheers,
Bernard

How about we actually find out If the WP is actually telling the truth, before you run off all half cocked...
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3382 on: January 27, 2020, 05:28:21 pm »

How about we actually find out If the WP is actually telling the truth, before you run off all half cocked...
You mean by having Bolton testify?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3383 on: January 27, 2020, 05:29:20 pm »

Because, Alan, They. Are. LYING.  The timeline is all wrong - Neither Burisma nor Biden was under investigation when Ukraine was pressured into removing Shokin.  Further, the EU, independent of Biden, the US, had been pushing for the same as a matter of policy. Further still, all of these people wanted Shokin replaced because he WASN'T being aggressive enough.  Every source at the time confirms this, and I linked several contemporaneous articles here from various EU media sources that were published at the time. 

What don't y'all understand about this???  Literally, this has the same  factual credibility as it would if Trump was claiming Biden was a space alien because he was trying to cut off SETI funding lest he be outed..

Well why don’t you prove your point about all of this by posting your research?  Then we can compare your “timeline” woth Glenn Becks, who has invested considerable effort to actually review court documents from Ukraine.  He made some very interesting finds. 
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3384 on: January 27, 2020, 05:31:22 pm »

Well why don’t you prove your point about all of this by posting your research?  Then we can compare your “timeline” woth Glenn Becks, who has invested considerable effort to actually review court documents from Ukraine.  He made some very interesting finds.
Glenn Beck? Seriously?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trumpmor
« Reply #3385 on: January 27, 2020, 05:33:31 pm »

You mean by having Bolton testify?

I have no problem with Bolton testifying.  But has he either confirmed or denied the story by the WP?   Maybe the WP can actually give it’s readers something other than their current raft of nameless “sources”.  Don’t you want from your “news” outlets?   Or is it any port in a storm when it benefits your TBS?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3386 on: January 27, 2020, 05:34:48 pm »

You mean by having Bolton testify?
Let's get the Bidens to testify.  Then we can find out how everyone is corrupt.  Which is worse?  Trump using his office to get re-elected.  Or Biden using his office to enrich his son?   I think bribery is in the constitution as a High Crime.   If Biden wins the presidency, then the House could impeach him for Bribery.  The Constitution doesn;t define a time limit.  He didn't have to do it during a future presidency.  He could be impeached for previous bribery while being vice president under Obama.  Now wouldn't that be interesting.  :)

Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3387 on: January 27, 2020, 05:35:22 pm »

Glenn Beck? Seriously?

Yep.  I don’t care who is reporting as long as they do real work.  Are you afraid of what he has?  Or better yet offer up some other source who has done the hard work...I’ll be more than happy to read it.
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trumpmor
« Reply #3388 on: January 27, 2020, 05:35:26 pm »

I have no problem with Bolton testifying.  But has he either confirmed or denied the story by the WP?   Maybe the WP can actually give it’s readers something other than their current raft of nameless “sources”.  Don’t you want from your “news” outlets?   Or is it any port in a storm when it benefits your TBS?
It's a NYT story. I don't know what TBS stands for.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trumpmor
« Reply #3389 on: January 27, 2020, 05:37:45 pm »

It's a NYT story. I don't know what TBS stands for.

My bad, you are correct.  I’ve read it in both, and my typo should have said TDS. 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3390 on: January 27, 2020, 05:39:35 pm »

Glenn Beck? Seriously?

So post your research, let’s see what you have.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3391 on: January 27, 2020, 05:40:51 pm »

No one cares about Bolton or Beck.  The lawyers will apparently be the only presenters.  Then the Senate will vote to acquit.

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3392 on: January 27, 2020, 05:43:01 pm »

Well why don’t you prove your point about all of this by posting your research?  Then we can compare your “timeline” woth Glenn Becks, who has invested considerable effort to actually review court documents from Ukraine.  He made some very interesting finds.

Go back in the thread... it's there.  As I recall from the Glenn back stuff, he thinks the fact that George Soros talked to someone is important,  relies on Shokin himself claiming he was wronged and was TOTALLY INNOCENT, and on a false report that a "do not prosecute"list was given to Ukraine by Yavanovitch. 

But hey, you do you. It totally makes more sense than the idea that Donald Trump did something petty and stupid.  Really.  ::)
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3393 on: January 27, 2020, 06:43:57 pm »

Currently on TV live the Republicans are making the case in front of the Senate about Biden's corruption - how Hunter got a sweetheart deal and how his father the VP Joe Biden protected him by insisting that Ukraine fire the prosecutor or Obama would withhold 1 billion dollars in military aid.  So it seems the Bidens were doing what everyone is accusing Trump of doing.  Small world.

What on earth does that have to do with the charges against Trump?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3394 on: January 27, 2020, 06:59:20 pm »

What on earth does that have to do with the charges against Trump?
If the Bidens hadn't done anything that is or has the appearance of being corrupt, there would have been no point in Trump calling for their investigation. An investigation under these circumstances makes it perfectly legal.  A twelve year-old knows what the Bidens did looks fishy.   Only someone in complete denial thinks VP Biden acted in the country's interest only by getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired.  How can you see corruption so clearly with Trump but are oblivious to it with Biden?  Of course Trump did the same thing.  Using a legitimate reason for an investigation as the excuse to go after his opponent.  But people are allowed to walk and chew gum at the same time.  Biden should have recused himself.  I guess his son;s job was more important. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3395 on: January 27, 2020, 07:03:58 pm »

... The timeline is all wrong - Neither Burisma nor Biden was under investigation when Ukraine was pressured into removing Shokin.  Further, the EU, independent of Biden, the US, had been pushing for the same as a matter of policy. Further still, all of these people wanted Shokin replaced because he WASN'T being aggressive enough.  Every source at the time confirms this, and I linked several contemporaneous articles here from various EU media sources that were published at the time. 

What don't y'all understand about this???...

Because those are just claims without proof. I have yet to see a single piece of compelling evidence for the above. From what I remember, you did post ONE link to an Irish news piece with a generic complaint about corruption in Ukraine. Never seen anything linking the ouster of Shokin to, say, MMF loan, or anything concrete, like Biden's 1 billion blackmail. Yes, everybody complained about corruption in Ukraine, but that is a far cry from linking it to a single person.

So, several questions:

- if investigation into Burisma was stalled because Shokin was not aggressive enough, what happened after his ouster? The investigation renewed with a gusto? Didn't happen.

- does anyone really believe that the source of corruption in Ukraine was one guy??? Hence his ouster would end it? And a billion dollars can be freely given without fear of further corruption? Several years later, Ukraine is still #1 corrupt country in the world.

- everyone involved in the investigation of Burisma, and that is not just Ukraine and Shokin, but EU was investigating it, was perfectly aware that the son of the US vice-president is sitting on its board. And everyone involved understood how awkward would be to investigate it, if not downright dangerous (for one's career). Especially after Biden so publicly put everyone in their place with his $1 billion blackmail. Nobody had to say a word, but everyone involved understood without a question that investigating Burisma is out of the question.

- if the EU complained that they could not finalize their investigation in Burisma because Shokin was dragging his feet, why didn't they continue after his ouster? Instead they freed Burisma's frozen funds soon after Biden's blackmail.

- where were the brave leftie whistleblowers to talk to their congressman about how uncomfortable they were with the glaringly apparent VP's conflict of interest? They wouldn't betray their guy, of course.

- if the aid to Ukraine was of such a national security importance, was it really in the U.S. national interest to withhold one.billion.dollars over a single guy!?

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3396 on: January 27, 2020, 07:16:39 pm »

Because those are just claims without proof. I have yet to see a single piece of compelling evidence for the above. From what I remember, you did post ONE link to an Irish news piece with a generic complaint about corruption in Ukraine. Never seen anything linking the ouster of Shokin to, say, MMF loan, or anything concrete, like Biden's 1 billion blackmail. Yes, everybody complained about corruption in Ukraine, but that is a far cry from linking it to a single person.

So, several questions:

- if investigation into Burisma was stalled because Shokin was not aggressive enough, what happened after his ouster? The investigation renewed with a gusto? Didn't happen.

- does anyone really believe that the source of corruption in Ukraine was one guy??? Hence his ouster would end it? And a billion dollars can be freely given without fear of further corruption? Several years later, Ukraine is still #1 corrupt country in the world.

- everyone involved in the investigation of Burisma, and that is not just Ukraine and Shokin, but EU was investigating it, was perfectly aware that the son of the US vice-president is sitting on its board. And everyone involved understood how awkward would be to investigate it, if not downright dangerous (for one's career). Especially after Biden so publicly put everyone in their place with his $1 billion blackmail. Nobody had to say a word, but everyone involved understood without a question that investigating Burisma is out of the question.

- if the EU complained that they could not finalize their investigation in Burisma because Shokin was dragging his feet, why didn't they continue after his ouster? Instead they freed Burisma's frozen funds soon after Biden's blackmail.

- where were the brave leftie whistleblowers to talk to their congressman about how uncomfortable they were with the glaringly apparent VP's conflict of interest? They wouldn't betray their guy, of course.

- if the aid to Ukraine was of such a national security importance, was it really in the U.S. national interest to withhold one.billion.dollars over a single guy!?

Well, the single guy wasn't Shokin.  It was Hunter Biden, a rather important person to the VP.  :)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3397 on: January 27, 2020, 07:17:25 pm »

If the Bidens hadn't done anything that is or has the appearance of being corrupt, there would have been no point in Trump calling for their investigation.

Trump didn't ask for an investigation, he just wanted them to announce an investigation, in order to hurt his personal opponent.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3398 on: January 27, 2020, 07:37:41 pm »

Trump didn't ask for an investigation, he just wanted them to announce an investigation, in order to hurt his personal opponent.

Bart, are you scheduled to testify soon? I am surprised you have not already been invited, given your first-hand knowledge.

Btw, “personal” opponent!?

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3399 on: January 27, 2020, 07:49:56 pm »

Btw, “personal” opponent!?

Trump takes everybody who is not supporting him as his personal adversary.
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