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Author Topic: Ambassadorial Leaks  (Read 1596 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2019, 02:48:09 pm »

I'm over my limit on free articles from The New York Times. Can you sum up how it has changed?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2019, 02:55:03 pm »

Like the ambassador.

Seriously!?

An ambassador is definitely not a local, even if formally living here. Even low level diplomatic personnel is discouraged from fraternizing with locals, let alone the ambassador. And locals who do interact with diplomatic personnel are generally rather careful what to disclose and how.

RSL

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2019, 03:06:53 pm »

Russ, the IAEA (https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iran) reporting confirmed that Iran stuck to the agreement, until the deal was unilaterally ripped-up by the USA. Inspections were not frustrated, and the findings were in line with what was agreed upon.

Now that there is no official agreement anymore, and there have been additional Trading sanctions imposed on anybody who wants to still honor the agreement, why would Iran be the only one to still stick to the (now non-existing limitations)?

Tantrum baby Trump is behaving like a schoolyard bully, only for re-election purposes. Those who think he is guided by what's best for the future of the USA, or even only his own voters, comes across as rather naive.  Sorry to be blunt, he only cares about himself. You are being used, and will be discarded as soon as you've outlived your usefulness for him (as many in his inner circle have already found out).

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart,

To believe that the IAEA report deals with the facts on the ground is naivety that goes beyond normal bounds. The IAEA can’t even get into the areas where the real work is going on. And even if “the findings were in line with what was agreed upon,” what was agreed upon would have given Iran a nuke in the near future.

And I agree it would be unrealistic for Iran to stick to the now nonexistent limitations, but when did Iran ever stick to them when they were extant? They talked a good line but there’s no way to know whether or not they were sticking to them or sticking it to us. You can bet it was the latter.

Trump has plenty of flaws, but his policies have restored serious prosperity to the U.S., and, if they’re willing to work at it, to the entire free world. Hillary was giving away our secrets with her unsecured server and selling our Uranium to the Russians. Those are not policies for survival.

One thing you need to remember when you look at United States policies is this: If it hadn’t been for the United States, in order to survive you’d now be either a Nazi  or a Russian-controlled serf. If the U.S. fumbles and goes down all of us – actually, as we say in the south, “y’all,” since I’m heading for 90 – will live, as Churchill put it, in a new dark age.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 04:14:15 pm by RSL »
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Chris Kern

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2019, 03:52:33 pm »

I'm over my limit on free articles from The New York Times. Can you sum up how it has changed?

I don't know how to do that without paraphrasing so much of the article and including so many of the quotations that I would arguably be infringing the Times' copyright: it's a reported story, not an opinion piece, and the content is contained in the details provided by the people interviewed by Sanger, in Washington, and another reporter, in London.  If you want to read it without purchasing a subscription, you can always access another ten articles per month with a different email address (or create a new address if you don't already have a spare); as far as I know, nothing in the website's terms-of-service prohibits that.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2019, 04:10:24 pm »

Seriously!?

An ambassador is definitely not a local, even if formally living here. Even low level diplomatic personnel is discouraged from fraternizing with locals, let alone the ambassador. And locals who do interact with diplomatic personnel are generally rather careful what to disclose and how.

Yes, seriously. Much of the diplomatic corps' job description centers around obtaining information about the host country and relaying it home.  They're good at it.  That's what they do. To suggest otherwise is to display ignorance of the gig.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2019, 04:16:00 pm »

Yes, seriously. Much of the diplomatic corps' job description centers around obtaining information about the host country and relaying it home.  They're good at it.  That's what they do. To suggest otherwise is to display ignorance of the gig.

And you know that how?

As for my “ignorance,” what do I know? I only spent seven years working inside an American embassy, accompanying the ambassador and other diplomatic personnel on their trips and visits.

Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2019, 04:35:31 pm »

Which limits outside experts to getting their info from faraway sources. Missing is the deeper understanding of the context and environment that locals have. You can't form your opinion of, say, Trump, by just reading the mostly hostile media. Without being here, talking to people, seeing thing with your own eyes, you wouldn't understand the sentiment that propelled him to power. Saying we are "naive and used" is just plain condescending.


Yes, to an extent it also depends on who is on the receiving end of information.

And doing what you advocated above is what an ambassador can do.

(Holding a glass of champers and trying to contend with a canapé at the same time takes learned skills and marks the fake from the real poseur who never drops a crumb nor soils the edge of his glass.)

For some reason not best understood, I feel quite bright this evening. That is dangerous!

:-)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2019, 05:05:31 pm »

Hi Bart,

To believe that the IAEA report deals with the facts on the ground is naivety that goes beyond normal bounds. The IAEA can’t even get into the areas where the real work is going on. And even if “the findings were in line with what was agreed upon,” what was agreed upon would have given Iran a nuke in the near future.

That's what you've been led to believe.

However, the IAEA reported last year (and confirmed it this year), under the JPCOA agreement, that:
Quote
“As of today, I can state that Iran is implementing its nuclear-related commitments,” he said in his introductory statement to the Board. “The JCPOA represents a significant gain for verification. It is essential that Iran continues to fully implement those commitments. If the JCPOA were to fail, it would be a great loss for nuclear verification and for multilateralism.”

Mr Amano said IAEA inspectors had had access to all the sites and locations which they needed to visit. “The Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of nuclear material declared by Iran under its Safeguards Agreement,” he added. “Evaluations regarding the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities in Iran continue.

At a news conference later in the day, Mr Amano gave more details of the Agency’s activities in Iran.

“Our inspection work has doubled since 2013. IAEA inspectors now spend 3,000 calendar days per year on the ground in Iran,” he said. “We have installed some 2,000 tamper-proof seals on nuclear material and equipment. We collect and analyse hundreds of thousands of images captured daily by our sophisticated surveillance cameras in Iran — about half of the total number of such images that we collect throughout the world.

I didn't make an effort to search for the latest confirmation that there was no change in the status quo, because you'd ignore it just the same. If I recall it correctly, it was around the moment that Trump broke the agreement that the AIEA said that Iran still was complying with the rules, and I recall that they reaffirmed that more recently. And they now found that Iran is stepping up production, because there is no deal.

Cheers,
Bart
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Chris Kern

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2019, 05:35:07 pm »

(Holding a glass of champers and trying to contend with a canapé at the same time takes learned skills and marks the fake from the real poseur who never drops a crumb nor soils the edge of his glass.)

My technique, in those bygone days when I attended embassy receptions—accompanying my wife, who was the invitee; none of the foreign missions cared a hoot about me—was to park myself close to the buffet table, which allowed me to use it to alternate holding my glass, plate, and utensils, thus obviating the necessity to repeatedly repair to the gents to remove a spot from my tie.  This gimmick offered the added advantage that I was strategically positioned to scarf up any particularly interesting morsel the instant a server deposited it.  The only dicey part was to disguise my real intentions.  Whenever possible I would park myself in the general proximity of a senior employee of my own agency—someone who would tolerate my overhearing the undoubtedly essential boozy international negotiation he was transacting with his counterpart as long as I didn't have the temerity to attempt to participate in the conversation—which gave me a plausible excuse for standing there.  Maybe this is what the spooks mean when they refer to "diplomatic cover."

RSL

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2019, 05:47:19 pm »

"Mr Amano said IAEA inspectors had had access to all the sites and locations which they needed to visit."

Exactly the problem, Bart. It's the ones they don't think they need to visit that are the problem. Eventually the whole world will find out about that.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2019, 06:29:25 pm »

No ambassadors here, just ordinary, real Americans:

faberryman

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2019, 06:35:27 pm »

No ambassadors here, just ordinary, real Americans:
I seem to remember Twilight themed weddings were popular a couple of years ago.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 06:55:10 pm by faberryman »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2019, 07:30:25 pm »

Rob, I understand your situation, and having now known you for ten years, am very sorry for the crap you're up against. But unlike our European "contributors," all of whom seem sure they're experts on United States politics though they continuously demonstrate the obverse of that belief, I don't claim to understand European or UK politics, so all I can say is: I'm sorry my friend. I hope it all works out satisfactorily in the end.

Well, it has been a matter of survival for Europeans to understand US politics due to the degree of influence the US has (had). We would be a lot less interested if monstrous state created fake news hadn't triggered a war in Irak that killed 500,000 civilians and caused indirectly many terrorists attacks in our cities killing our friends and families.

So I do believe that many Europeans do in fact understand US politics extremely well, and dare I say, probably better than some Americans since we do have plural information sources and tend to listen to different voices, including Fox news... while some Americans appear to lock themselves into listening to the media that tells them what they want to hear. Talk about freedom... but there isn’t a better prisoner than the one who volunteers for jail time, is it?

Not to say that European media are necessarily free of influences, France being a great example of oligarchy controlled news channels. Macron wouldn’t be president without them.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:56:28 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2019, 08:27:24 pm »

As for my “ignorance,” what do I know? I only spent seven years working inside an American embassy, accompanying the ambassador and other diplomatic personnel on their trips and visits.

Good for you.  What were your duties?
I spent a year making a film about a transmission line in Zaire, but that didn't make me an expert on electrical engineering, or Africa for that matter.
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Manoli

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2019, 08:59:33 pm »

Without being here, talking to people, seeing thing with your own eyes, you wouldn't understand the sentiment that propelled him to power. Saying we are "naive and used" is just plain condescending.

Maybe, but it doesn’t make it untrue.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2019, 10:03:24 pm »

Maybe, but it doesn’t make it untrue.

Were we to believe Email Hillary?  How honest and forthright are your politicians?    Trump said he would do or try to do a lot of stuff.  He's pretty much followed through.  You can;t expect much more from a politician.  LAbor rates and the stock market are at all time highs.  ISIS has been practicality eliminated.  NK stopped testing nukes and ICBM's.  EUrope is paying more for defense.  Our military is stronger.  These are things he promised to do.  Others have not been as successful such as Obamacare.  NK isn't done yet.  Trade  gauntlet has been thrown down without resolution in the making yet, but NAFTA was changed.  Where's the "naive and used"?  Frankly, your statement is condescending too. I get it.  You don;t like him. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2019, 10:28:46 pm »

Good for you.  What were your duties?
I spent a year making a film about a transmission line in Zaire, but that didn't make me an expert on electrical engineering, or Africa for that matter.

No, but I would gladly admit that you know more about transmission lines in Zaire than I do. Besides, your line of work had nothing to do with electrical engineering.

I was an economic specialist for seven years in the embassy. Our day would start with a press briefing, where an officer from the political section would be present as well. A translator would read relevant news from the local press and we would discuss it. The rest of the time I would prepare economic analyses on local issues, inflation, industrial production, etc. for the Economic Counselor. I would occasionally assist him in drafting a cable on particular issues, that would then go to the Ambassador. I would be a part of the State Dept. delegation when they would come from Washington DC to visit the local Chamber of Commerce and discuss economic assistance. As I said, I would occasionally travel with the Ambassador or other diplomats when they were visiting various parts of the country for economic talks. Not to mention cocktail parties, where I learned how to juggle a glass and plate and still shake hands.

You may not agree, but I'd like to think that I had a better insight in how embassies collect and process data and how much they have exposure to real local life than you and others who only read about it.

RSL

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #77 on: July 12, 2019, 09:06:35 am »

"Mr Amano said IAEA inspectors had had access to all the sites and locations which they needed to visit."

Exactly the problem, Bart. It's the ones they don't think they need to visit that are the problem. Eventually the whole world will find out about that.

Hi Bart, I was in a rush yesterday when I wrote this. I should have expended it: Until we have an agreement that will let the IAEA inspect anywhere. at any time without prior notice, we'll never know what Iran actually is doing. At the moment it's not a question of the locations the IAEA needs to visit, it's a question of what the agreement has allowed them to visit. The whole arrangement is absurd.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #78 on: July 12, 2019, 12:41:16 pm »

No, but I would gladly admit that you know more about transmission lines in Zaire than I do. Besides, your line of work had nothing to do with electrical engineering.

Of course not.  Other than the fact that, in order to make a film about nearly anything, you have to learn about it first.

Quote
I was an economic specialist for seven years in the embassy.
You may not agree, but I'd like to think that I had a better insight in how embassies collect and process data and how much they have exposure to real local life than you and others who only read about it.

Based on that information, I agree.  You know more about how embassies collect and process data than most.  Even me. :)

So, the UK's ambassador:.  Did he reveal anything false?  Or anything we didn't already know?  Or did he just make that stuff up?
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LesPalenik

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #79 on: July 12, 2019, 12:45:41 pm »

So, the UK's ambassador:.  Did he reveal anything false?  Or anything we didn't already know?  Or did he just make that stuff up?

Actually, Bill Maher has been saying all these things for a while now. But the ambassador uses a more diplomatic language.
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