Extreme weather

[Alan Klein]

I can just see the headlines in the Miami Herald:  "Canadian Population Decreases 30% due to Global Warming")

[LesPalenik]

Maybe the 30% moved to colder areas?  Just like there won't be as many Canadians going to Florida as it warms up north.  Miamians will be complaining, "Where are the Canadians?"

Not so much due to the warming trends in the north as to growth of Covid-19 in the south.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

So far, the polar bear is doing OK.

Because we stopped hunting them for pleasure, they have been recovering slowly.

[faberryman]

The argument made by "experts" is that the polar bear is dying out because they can't  adapt.  The graph show that while polar bears have been on earth, they have gone through many periods when the temperature was a lot hotter than it is now.  Their arguments is not that their extinction would happen at some time in the future assuming it gets that hot.  But rather they are dying now which is false both from a graph point of view and from other studies that have counted the bears.  The scientists were premature in their claims.  While it gets proponents to their side, more astute and skeptical people see it as an attempt to fool the public.  So they lose credibility.  That's not how science should be done.

You place great emphasis on the temperature graph. In fact, it is central to your argument. At the same time, you say that all the scientists are lying. Why aren't the scientists lying about the temperatures in the chart? I have asked you this a couple of times and you haven't answered.

[hogloff]

We expect oil companies to lie to protect their bottom line.  Does that justify environmentalists and scientists lying about polar bears and climate change?  Why should the public believe anyone when everyone is lying?

But which group has the most clout and money to promote their cause? Who would you believe...the executive from an oil company that flys around on their personal jets or the scientist that eats at McDonald's and works 80 hours a week. I know where I'd put my money.

[faberryman]

We expect oil companies to lie to protect their bottom line.  Does that justify environmentalists and scientists lying about polar bears and climate change?  Why should the public believe anyone when everyone is lying?

So the oil companies are saying everything is okay, but they are lying, which means everything is not okay, which is what the scientists are saying. So how are the scientist lying? Seems like you have a little bit of an internal inconsistency there.

[Alan Klein]

Because we stopped hunting them for pleasure, they have been recovering slowly.

They seem more allergic to lead than CO2. 

[Alan Klein]

You place great emphasis on the temperature graph. In fact, it is central to your argument. At the same time, you say that all the scientists are lying. Why aren't the scientists lying about the temperatures in the chart? I have asked you this a couple of times and you haven't answered.

I trust the chart.  The analysis and conclusions are mine.

[Alan Klein]

But which group has the most clout and money to promote their cause? Who would you believe...the executive from an oil company that flys around on their personal jets or the scientist that eats at McDonald's and works 80 hours a week. I know where I'd put my money.

So I should trust poor people who lie?

[Alan Klein]

So the oil companies are saying everything is okay, but they are lying, which means everything is not okay, which is what the scientists are saying. So how are the scientist lying? Seems like you have a little bit of an internal consistency there.

They're both lying or embellishing.  You have to use discernment. 

[hogloff]

So I should trust poor people who lie?

Alan you made it very clear...you trust no one...oh maybe only the orange man. And only maybe the person who supports your biases.

If you have to trust someone, who would it be...the billionaire oil executive which has multi billions at stake or the scientist who works with facts.

[Alan Klein]

Alan you made it very clear...you trust no one...oh maybe only the orange man. And only maybe the person who supports your biases.

If you have to trust someone, who would it be...the billionaire oil executive which has multi billions at stake or the scientist who works with facts.

People tend to believe the last thing they read. 

[faberryman]

I trust the chart.

Actually, the question was not did you trust the chart. We know that. It is central to your argument. The question was why do you trust the chart. It directly contradicts your belief that all scientist are lying.

Is this like Schrödinger’s cat where something can be true and not true at the same time. It just seems to me that if it is the case that the temperatures in the chart could be true and not true at the same time, the proposition that polar bears might go extinct if it gets too hot could be true and not true at the same time. That way we wouldn’t have to say the oil companies and the scientists are lying. We could say the oil companies and scientists are just saying things which are true and not true at the same time. It would just depend on you quantum state at that moment. Nah.

[Alan Klein]

Actually, the question was not did you trust the chart. We know that. It is central to your argument. The question was why do you trust the chart. It directly contradicts your belief that all scientist are lying.

Is this like Schrödinger’s cat where something might be true and not true at the same time. It just seems to me that if it is the case that the temperatures in the chart could be true and not true at the same time, the proposition that polar bears might go extinct if it gets too hot could be true and not true at the same time. That way we wouldn’t have to say the oil companies and the scientists are lying. We could just say the oil companies and scientists are just saying things which are true and not true at the same time. It would just depend on you quantum state at that moment. Nah.

When did I say all scientists are lying?  I never said that.  I do use discernment when anyone tells me something.  Do you believe a Nikon guy when he tells you that Nikon is the best camera? 

[hogloff]

When did I say all scientists are lying?  I never said that.  I do use discernment when anyone tells me something.  Do you believe a Nikon guy when he tells you that Nikon is the best camera? 

Ok...what makes you believe this one scientist and not believe all the others?

[faberryman]

I do use discernment when anyone tells me something.

In the religious or secular sense? I ask because it seems to me you are usually using it in the religious sense. For example. I ask why you trust the chart, and you answer that you trust the chart. Since you can't answer why, it seems like you are just accepting it on faith. So your arguments remind me of those videos I linked to that explain why the dinosaurs are fake and the scientists are all lying.

[faberryman]

Do you believe a Nikon guy when he tells you that Nikon is the best camera?

Sometimes. It depends on how good his argument is. If I ask him why he believes Nikon is the best camera and his response is that he trusts Nikon, it usually isn’t very convincing. I think he is a fanboy and seek other opinions.

[Alan Klein]

Ok...what makes you believe this one scientist and not believe all the others?

All I'm trusting is the chart.  It seems to be have assembled from different sources.  My opinion about the bears was based on my observation of the chart.  The scientists who prepared the study said nothing about what I said.  It was my own conclusions based on the chart.  I discerned my conclusion from it and did not draw on any conclusions the scientists made in their study.

[hogloff]

All I'm trusting is the chart.  It seems to be have assembled from different sources.  My opinion about the bears was based on my observation of the chart.  The scientists who prepared the study said nothing about what I said.  It was my own conclusions based on the chart.  I discerned my conclusion from it and did not draw on any conclusions the scientists made in their study.

How quickly did the other "heat spells" in Greenland take to materialize? This current earth warming jumped in the last 20 years and has been accelerating. Do you think changes that take hundreds ( maybe thousands ) of years differ than changes that take 20 years. Do you feel the polar bear can adapt better if climate change takes hundreds of years versus 20 years?

[Alan Klein]

How quickly did the other "heat spells" in Greenland take to materialize? This current earth warming jumped in the last 20 years and has been accelerating. Do you think changes that take hundreds ( maybe thousands ) of years differ than changes that take 20 years. Do you feel the polar bear can adapt better if climate change takes hundreds of years versus 20 years?

I'm not a polar bear, so I can't say for sure.  But,  yes, I think they can adapt if the temperatures continue to escalate. Keep in mind that the temperature has gone up about 1 degree in a hundred or two hundred years, I believe, not 20 years.  That's many generations.