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Author Topic: Brexit Encore  (Read 85437 times)

KLaban

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 02:17:58 pm »

Brexit Party URL hijacked by pro-EU group because Nigel Farage forgot to register website.

thebrexitparty.com

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2019, 12:57:41 pm »

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2019, 08:58:08 am »

All those guns... if they all went off at once they could trigger a landslide result or even, given the place, an avalanche or three. Might get shot of Mary Poppins figures, though, proving there are bright sides to most things.

;-)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2019, 10:11:41 pm »

Couple of interesting talks.

The first is about social media's nefarious (and possibly illegal) effects on democracy generally with some specific references to Brexit: https://www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy.

The second is a radio interview with Irish Times columnist Fintan O'Toole from today's Sunday Edition on CBC Radio: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayedition/how-the-state-of-self-pity-that-is-brexit-stemmed-from-britain-s-victory-in-ww-ii-1.5099101.

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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2019, 06:18:46 am »

Couple of interesting talks.

The first is about social media's nefarious (and possibly illegal) effects on democracy generally with some specific references to Brexit: https://www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy.

The second is a radio interview with Irish Times columnist Fintan O'Toole from today's Sunday Edition on CBC Radio: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayedition/how-the-state-of-self-pity-that-is-brexit-stemmed-from-britain-s-victory-in-ww-ii-1.5099101.

Thanks for the links; sent them on to a family member who is an ardent Brexiteer. Trouble is, that may prevent him from being able to watch and listen. Maybe all too late, but perhaps not.

Rob

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2019, 07:36:33 am »

Thanks for the links; sent them on to a family member who is an ardent Brexiteer. Trouble is, that may prevent him from being able to watch and listen. Maybe all too late, but perhaps not.

Rob

One thing that I wasn't aware of that came up in the 2nd interview with O'Toole was the young/old divide in the referendum. The people who voted for it would not be alive to suffer the consequences. Yet another thing wrong with 50% + 1 decisions on matters of this importance.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2019, 08:56:35 am »

...The people who voted for it would not be alive to suffer the consequences...

Which was exactly the same in the first referendum. So?

Besides, the immutable law of nature: everyone alive will become old. That’s the stage when most who had at least two brain cells to begin with will become wiser.

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2019, 12:28:32 pm »

Which was exactly the same in the first referendum. So?

Besides, the immutable law of nature: everyone alive will become old. That’s the stage when most who had at least two brain cells to begin with will become wiser.


There has only been one referendum on this, Slobodan.

The old, in this case, are from a generation (mine) that didn't always know its ass from its elbow. That many subsequent ones don't either isn't the point. The point is that those with any worthwhile prospects i.e. the better educated or just naturally bright, instantly recognised the massive advantages to having a wider space in which to travel and work if they felt like it, as of right. Consider your own position in the US of A: you need to get green cards etc. if you come from another nation and want to settle and work. In Europe, the status quo of Brits was far different and we could come and go as we saw fit. You don't think that was a better deal for us?

Regarding the mindset of many of the older people: even the unions were against leaving because the guys who run them are, whatever else they may be, not unaware of which side of the bread lies the butter. If they back leaving and in a few years jobs vanish, who gets blamed, whose factory and job closes? I think the rabid commies who held some of those key jobs a few decades ago have mostly died off; instead, a few fossils are now in full-time politics. Not all old people are fortunate enough to carry on playing the game of life with a full deck of cards; and that problem doesn't discriminate between left, right, dumb or brilliant. Anyway, you can't expect the old guys who spend all day and their pensions in workingmen's clubs in some depressing old town in northern England either to know or care about job opportunities for young Brits in Europe, nor of the job prospects being torn up and chucked abroad for those in the money businesses in the hated and far more rich south of England and, especially, the City. According to some people in northern Engand, as with many Scot Nats, the south "stole our wealth" which usually turns out to mean that the "stolen" northern companies sold out to conglomeratesi in England and abroad. That's not theft: that's business, and often the result of having to deal with local bloodymindedness that couldn't see the wood for the trees.

As for the reverse migratory movements, we depend on them at both high and lower levels: the poor folks coming in do work our "proud" bunch won't touch, and the catering industry and the health services depend on them to fill gaps both in the supply of nurses and hotel/restaurant gigs. Farmers, too, depend on such migrant workers and for much the same reasons as everywhere else. At the other end of the telescope, the health industry makes huge use of trained specialists from abroad. So do our engineering and science industries. Yes, our universities produce thousands of highly educated folks, but many say thanks, and sod off to better-paying work abroad, and who can really blame them? Or so my doctor granddaughter tells me from her experiences in employment in hospitals. As for business, it's become more multicoloured than ever before with the world living in London and making and spending lots. So, once we throw out the French and the Italians, the Arabs and the Asians, do we turn upon the Americans too because they are foreigners eating our lunch?

It was a movement built upon ignorance, hatred and lies, and the deadly sickness of apathy. That's why we face this shit today.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2019, 12:47:06 pm »


There has only been one referendum on this...

Two: one in and one out.

Chairman Bill

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2019, 12:57:45 pm »

The most recent referendum was marred by electoral fraud. Had the result been binding on Parliament, it would have been ruled illegal & would have had to be either run again or the result put to one side. As it is, Parliament feels bound to abide by the result for fear of right-wing extremists killing more MPs & some general disorder and the rest of us look set to suffer the consequences.

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2019, 02:15:19 pm »

Two: one in and one out.

Artful Dodger comes to mind...

:-)

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2019, 02:32:22 pm »

The most recent referendum was marred by electoral fraud. Had the result been binding on Parliament, it would have been ruled illegal & would have had to be either run again or the result put to one side. As it is, Parliament feels bound to abide by the result for fear of right-wing extremists killing more MPs & some general disorder and the rest of us look set to suffer the consequences.


The thing is, who would ever have imagined that Britain would become a nation where there could be fear of political assassinations? From a place with a highly stable society, if one of an extreme (sometimes) range of views, murder was not seriously considered a likelihood; it was something that happened across the water or here, perpetrated by people from over there.

How thin the skin of civilisation.

How dangerous the uncontrolled state of social media.

:-(

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2019, 03:12:13 pm »

... Parliament feels bound to abide by the result for fear of right-wing extremists killing more MPs ...

You guys can't be serious!? The whole British parliament can't vote in fear of assassinations!? A clear case of BDS (Brexit Derangement Syndrome)?

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2019, 05:53:04 pm »

You guys can't be serious!? The whole British parliament can't vote in fear of assassinations!? A clear case of BDS (Brexit Derangement Syndrome)?

But it did and does vote; the problem is that it doesn't agree on much beyond the fact that leaving the Community without a deal is the worst option in a scenario where the only good option is to cancel the entire mess and say enough! No way will we, as a responosible government and opposition, participate in bringing about aided suicide.

A lady MP has already been murdered by a Brexiteer nutcase. These guys can perhaps imagine themselves doing something patriotic - who can tell?

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2019, 03:42:11 am »

As it is, Parliament feels bound to abide by the result for fear of right-wing extremists killing more MPs & some general disorder and the rest of us look set to suffer the consequences.

The vast majority of reported death threats are made by left-wing members of the Labour Party, mostly against the Labour Party's own MPs and in particular against those who are Jewish and female.

Jeremy
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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2019, 07:16:49 am »

The vast majority of reported death threats are made by left-wing members of the Labour Party, mostly against the Labour Party's own MPs and in particular against those who are Jewish and female.

Jeremy

But you can be as much a right- as a left-wing Brexiteer maniac; then you have new events in N. Ireland showing their ugly face yet again, none of which I think is incidental to the opportunity the excited times of the entire Brexit debacle gives all the unconstrained nut jobs amongst us to breath deeply and do something, anything they want to do. Moods are infectious.

Rob

Manoli

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2019, 11:31:51 am »

The vast majority of reported death threats are made by left-wing members of the Labour Party, mostly against the Labour Party's own MPs and in particular against those who are Jewish and female.

Two in particular, Luciana Berger and Margaret Hodge. There is no question that there is a vile and despicable surge in anti-semitism throughout the UK, but that is not the exclusive domain of the Labour Party.

The internet troll jailed for his abusive tweets against Berger was a member of the ineo-Nazi Nactional Action organisation. Following the verdict, she instantly became a target for anti-Semitic neo-Nazi trolls, with the police telling her that she had received 2,500 “hate messages” in just three days at the height of the attacks.

Jo Cox MP was murdered in 2016 by another right wing extremist, who shot thrice and stabbed her fifteen times shouting “Britain first, this is for Britain”.  Not exactly Labour Party manifesto.

I'm not aware that anti-semitism is the exclusive domain (of one part) of the Labour party. Between the extremists in the Conservative party and the splinter groups of UKIP , the BNP and the EDL I'd surmise that the racist element is both prevalent and omnipresent.



(Members of the UK’s neo-Nazi National Action group rally in York, June 9, 2016)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2019, 11:39:24 am »

... Jo Cox MP was murdered in 2016 by another right wing extremist, who shot thrice and stabbed her fifteen times shouting “Britain first, this is for Britain”.  Not exactly Labour Party manifesto....

And an individual with a certified history of mental illness.

faberryman

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2019, 12:06:34 pm »

And an individual with a certified history of mental illness.
I for one am glad they got a reprieve until October 31st. Brexit has been out of the news since the extension was announced.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2019, 02:22:13 pm »

There is no question that there is a vile and despicable surge in anti-semitism throughout the UK, but that is not the exclusive domain of the Labour Party.

I didn't suggest that it was. It just happens to be particularly prevalent in that party, perhaps because the underlying sentiment is shared by its leader.

Jeremy
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