Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 75   Go Down

Author Topic: Brexit Encore  (Read 85464 times)

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2299
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2019, 02:40:50 pm »

And an individual with a certified history of mental illness.

In a word, poppycock.

After his arrest, he was examined by a psychiatrist who could find no evidence that his mental health was so poor that he was not responsible for his actions. He was essentially a sane man and was tried as such.

Quote
On 18 June 2016, asked to confirm his name in Westminster Magistrates' Court, Mair said, "My name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain". His lawyers said there was no indication of how he would plead. Mair was remanded in custody and the magistrate suggested he was seen by a psychiatrist. At a September 2016 hearing, Mair's counsel said they would not advance a diminished responsibility argument.

Mair's trial began at the Old Bailey on 14 November 2016. He made no attempt to defend himself. Witnesses testified that during the attack, Mair had cried out "This is for Britain", "keep Britain independent", and "Put Britain first". On 23 November 2016, the jury took about 90 minutes to convict Mair of Cox's murder,  The same day, Mair was sentenced to life imprisonment; the judge said he had no doubt Mair murdered Cox to advance a political, racial, and ideological cause—that of violent white supremacism and exclusive nationalism most associated with Nazism and its modern forms. This made the case exceptionally serious; accordingly the judge imposed a whole life term, meaning Mair will never be eligible for parole.

Mair had links to British and American far-right political groups including the National Front (NF), the United States-based neo-Nazi organisation National Vanguard (successor to the defunct National Alliance) and the English Defence League (EDL) ... In his home were found Nazi regalia, far-right books, and information on the construction of bombs.  He had searched the internet for information about the British National Party (BNP), South African apartheid, the Ku Klux Klan, prominent Jewish people, matricide, white supremacism/nationalism, Nazism/Nazi Party, SS/Waffen SS, Israel, mass shootings, serial killers, and the Norwegian far-right terrorist Anders Behring Breivik (about whose case he collected newspaper clippings). He also owned Nazi iconography and books and films related to the Nazis

Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2019, 02:48:10 pm »

In a word, poppycock.

After his arrest, he was examined by a psychiatrist who could find no evidence that his mental health was so poor that he was not responsible for his actions. He was essentially a sane man and was tried as such.

The news article I read about the case stated what I stated above (history of mental illness). If they were wrong, I was wrong.

However, there is a clear distinction between pleading insanity as a legal defense and suffering from mental illnesses. Most people that subscribe to that level of extreme views probably are mentally unstable to begin with, though not to the level to successfully plead legal insanity.

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2034
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2019, 04:29:16 pm »

Wholly aside from the byzantine politics of Brexit, which are impenetrable to an outsider (at least, to this outsider), it seems to me the Brits had a rather desirable arrangement with respect to the European Union.  They didn't join the euro zone, which always struck me as a dubious idea—does any country really benefit from the common currency other than Germany?—and opted out of the Schengen Agreement, which undermines reasonable attempts at border and customs control.  At the same time, their businesses and consumers got all the benefits of the free-trade area and their citizens had the same rights as those of other member states to live and work anywhere in the EU.

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2019, 06:02:42 pm »

Wholly aside from the byzantine politics of Brexit, which are impenetrable to an outsider (at least, to this outsider), it seems to me the Brits had a rather desirable arrangement with respect to the European Union.  They didn't join the euro zone, which always struck me as a dubious idea—does any country really benefit from the common currency other than Germany?—and opted out of the Schengen Agreement, which undermines reasonable attempts at border and customs control.  At the same time, their businesses and consumers got all the benefits of the free-trade area and their citizens had the same rights as those of other member states to live and work anywhere in the EU.
As far as I can tell, Brexit movement is principally about immigration and foreign workers.
Logged

Jeremy Roussak

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8961
    • site
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2019, 03:19:01 am »

And an individual with a certified history of mental illness.

In a word, poppycock.

After his arrest, he was examined by a psychiatrist who could find no evidence that his mental health was so poor that he was not responsible for his actions. He was essentially a sane man and was tried as such.

It is seldom wise to attempt to summarise complex issues in a single word. There is an enormous difference between some form of of mental illness and the extremely high threshold of being declared unfit to plead.

Jeremy
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2019, 04:08:17 am »

Wholly aside from the byzantine politics of Brexit, which are impenetrable to an outsider (at least, to this outsider), it seems to me the Brits had a rather desirable arrangement with respect to the European Union.  They didn't join the euro zone, which always struck me as a dubious idea—does any country really benefit from the common currency other than Germany?—and opted out of the Schengen Agreement, which undermines reasonable attempts at border and customs control. At the same time, their businesses and consumers got all the benefits of the free-trade area and their citizens had the same rights as those of other member states to live and work anywhere in the EU.

Absolutely; it was a nostalic madness.

Has not happened yet - and as innocents discover Jacob Rees-Mogg, a prime promoter of Brexit, has moved his assets to Ireland - to keep them within the Union and be safe - the penny may drop, but I wouldn't bet on it. We are not dealing with the rational here.

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2019, 11:26:34 am »

... their citizens had the same rights as those of other member states to live and work anywhere in the EU.

Is there a statistic on that? How many Brits left and how many foreigners came?*

* With the possible inclusion of the gazzilions in Calais waiting to cross the Channel, after already having passed through a dozen other wealthy E.U. nations. What’s is it? The famed British cuisine? Glorious weather?

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2019, 12:37:07 pm »

Is there a statistic on that? 1, How many Brits left and how many foreigners came?*

* With the possible inclusion of the gazzilions in Calais waiting to cross the Channel, after already having passed through a dozen other wealthy E.U. nations. 2, What’s is it? The famed British cuisine? Glorious weather?


1.  It doesn't matter how many left or did not; the entire point is about the right to do so if you feel like it. It's about the freedom of the individual to make that call. Americans, both new or old, should appreciate that concept more than most people. Even the gunslingers cite it as the bodies fall.

2.  I think there are two main parts, but as I'm not of the same origins, there could well be distinct lures in the UK of which I am not aware.

Those two of which I am apprised might be: (a) the relative ease in the UK for certain factions to insinuate themelves into the state's welfare systems; (b) the fact that unlike in most European lands, the Brits are shocked at the very idea of identity cards, thought they proudly carry a driving licence [since living in Spain I am obliged, as is everyone else, to carry one at all times; it, along with my medical card and driving permit (all three with snap included), has proved its worth in gold far more often than any golden Amex card I do not own might have. But such conveniences are an obvious threat to your freedom.].

A country that has decided largely to oblige its police forces to overlook the very ethnicities that might have members with a desire to blow the indigenous whites to smithereens, on the grounds of "fairness" and discrimination, is not far removed from institutional madness. This latter provides the ease with which people can simply disappear within the diaspora never to be found or recorded again. Once living safely within you ethnic ghetto, who's gonna blow your cover? If you don't even have to produce any ID to the police in suspicious circumstances, you have got it made, no?

When I can, I look for the Spanish newspaper Ultima Hora, not because it's a particularly edifying read (it would probably go right over the top of my head if it were), but for the short columns from a writer called Enrique Lázaro, who has a particular talent for the dry, clever yet simple-sounding mickey-take. Today, his theme was about tone, as in conversation/communication. He writes that it doesn't matter what you say or write, because nobody listens to you nor reads the words, but that what is all important is the tone in which you express what you express. How true.

Walking through the stuff on the hard at the local marina about an hour or two ago, I saw an obstruction that was simply irresistible, so I tumbed head over heels over it. It was a small mast. As I picked myself up, a little crowd of people working on the vessels gathered about the scene - made it, in fact - and one, a lady walking with her husband, told me that one has to be very careful in such places because it is terribly easy to trip... I could only agree, but I hope that I did so using the right tone.

Fortunately, the only damage was to my pride - not that there's much left by now - and the creation of a nice skinless zone on my left palm; this I doused with chemist's alcohol when I got home, thus enjoying the pleasures of a really high burn, hopefully fatal to marina germs. My Levi's and a windcheater are now in the washing machine, where I hope they discard the fine cement colour that was never a part of the original design. Hard to get bored as you grow old.

;-)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 04:37:44 pm by Rob C »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2019, 01:14:38 pm »


1.  It doesn't matter how many left or did not; the entire point is about the right to do so if you feel like it. It's about the freedom of the individual to make that call...

Ah, the brave new world without borders. Not there yet, though.

By the way, would you extend the same right to own and carry a gun if one feels like it?

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2019, 01:45:33 pm »

Ah, the brave new world without borders. Not there yet, though.

By the way, would you extend the same right to own and carry a gun if one feels like it?


1. I do not at all advocate a world entirely free of borders; I vote for one where those entitled to cross them can, and can continue to do that. There are those I would never permit to enter my country of birth. However, I don't think you were suggesting that I do hold that totally open-border idea.

2. I would certainly grant myself the right to carry a small pistol because I know myself very well, and random violence has never been my thing. However, that should still be a right based on passing stringent tests, both psychological as well as physical: seeing the right target strikes me as important. Based on my recent public performance, perhaps just as well I do not bear arms. I might have suffered a larger hole than the one in my hand, had something been fired by accidental knock - if that's really possible. Self-defence is one thing, but armaments capable of killing dozens in one continuous burst seem rather over the top, to say the very least. Those should remain with the military or security forces.

:-)

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2019, 04:34:49 am »

Wholly aside from the byzantine politics of Brexit, which are impenetrable to an outsider (at least, to this outsider), it seems to me the Brits had a rather desirable arrangement with respect to the European Union.  They didn't join the euro zone, which always struck me as a dubious idea—does any country really benefit from the common currency other than Germany?—and opted out of the Schengen Agreement, which undermines reasonable attempts at border and customs control.  At the same time, their businesses and consumers got all the benefits of the free-trade area and their citizens had the same rights as those of other member states to live and work anywhere in the EU.

Of course - the UK got the Germany+ deal. But Brexit has never been about rationality - it is about people being left behind and misunderstanding or misdiagnosing the reasons for that. Stir in the usual demagogues and pocket-liners, along with a little help from the Kremlin, and there you have it.
Logged

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2034
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2019, 06:16:00 am »

it is about people being left behind and misunderstanding or misdiagnosing the reasons for that. Stir in the usual demagogues and pocket-liners, along with a little help from the Kremlin, and there you have it.

Yes, we're quite familiar with that cluster of phenomena on this side of the Atlantic.

mecrox

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
    • My Online Portfolio
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2019, 07:28:08 am »

Of course - the UK got the Germany+ deal. But Brexit has never been about rationality - it is about people being left behind and misunderstanding or misdiagnosing the reasons for that. Stir in the usual demagogues and pocket-liners, along with a little help from the Kremlin, and there you have it.


Good point. I'd say the two-party system is also part of the problem with both the main UK parties apparently determined to hang on to the old system - which means going for Brexit - regardless of whether it's in the national interest. They know Brexit is not in the national interest but they also know that showing some principles and taking a stand on it would mean unpopularity shock horror.


The recent Extinction Rebellion protests in London are an optimistic sign, though. Not only does it suggest that things have already moved on from 2016 but it also suggests that the young are determined to ignore dim, inflexible nationalist politicians and their crooked circles, instead cutting straight to the chase. Nationalist demagogues and crooks of the Brexit variety aren't going to stop the planet choking itself.
Logged
Mark @ Flickr

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2019, 09:46:26 am »


Good point. I'd say the two-party system is also part of the problem with both the main UK parties apparently determined to hang on to the old system - which means going for Brexit - regardless of whether it's in the national interest. They know Brexit is not in the national interest but they also know that showing some principles and taking a stand on it would mean unpopularity shock horror.


The recent Extinction Rebellion protests in London are an optimistic sign, though. Not only does it suggest that things have already moved on from 2016 but it also suggests that the young are determined to ignore dim, inflexible nationalist politicians and their crooked circles, instead cutting straight to the chase. Nationalist demagogues and crooks of the Brexit variety aren't going to stop the planet choking itself.


But what do you do about the 4% more Brexiteers who think getting choked to death is all part of artificial respiration and resuscitation?

TonyW

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 643
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2019, 09:57:37 am »

Some Aussie common sense and who is the "they" that are knowing that Brexit is not in the National Interest?  :P ::) ??? >:(

https://www.facebook.com/PetaCredlin/videos/280719305930320/?v=280719305930320
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2019, 11:00:17 am »

Some Aussie common sense and who is the "they" that are knowing that Brexit is not in the National Interest?  :P ::) ??? >:(

https://www.facebook.com/PetaCredlin/videos/280719305930320/?v=280719305930320

Excellent! Yes, indeed, No Deal and move on!

mecrox

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
    • My Online Portfolio
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2019, 11:41:04 am »


But what do you do about the 4% more Brexiteers who think getting choked to death is all part of artificial respiration and resuscitation?


Lol. The young don’t want the future the old envision for them. They are quite right, especially when the young in this case means anyone under 45 or so. We’re not talking about a few teens here. Brexit has complex causes but it’s a good example of how a built-in majority of oldies is now a problem for Western democracies locked into two-party systems. For example, whenever Boris Johnson stands up, remember that he doesn’t have to convince you or I to inch nearer to power by neutralising T May. He has to convince enough members of the Conservative Party at their little internal votes and resolutions, a deeply unappealing bunch of often wealthy right-wingers with an average age of more than 70, I believe. Oldies again. I am hoping that Extinction Rebellion here and similar movements elsewhere turn out to be like the anti-war protests of the Sixties - a watershed moment too big to ignore.
Logged
Mark @ Flickr

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2019, 11:47:58 am »

Excellent! Yes, indeed, No Deal and move on!

Nice speech badly read.

Buy hey from an upside-down position, you're bound not to get things right.

In essence, leave the club but expect to use the swimming pool, carpark and bar. Funny how the speech sounds exactly as if written by the Victorians in the Conservative party. As for the bit about Ireland, why does Trump want to reinforce his borders with Mexico? For exactly the same reasons that Europe would have to between Ireland and Northern Ireland: two separate countries with Ireland bound by European concerns as well, and, silently, the UK fear of turning NI into a smugglers' paradise and terrorist breeding ground with far greater support for that madness reborn.

So, what do you imagine is in it for Australia?

Look in that reader's eyes and tell me you see something.

Rob
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 04:04:26 pm by Rob C »
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4768
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2019, 01:02:32 pm »



Look in that reader's eyes and tell me you see something.



Funny line.
Logged
--
Robert

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2019, 02:30:31 pm »

Here is a metaphor for Brexit:

You know when someone threatens to jump from a tall building but does nothing for too long, the crowd gets bored and starts chanting: "Jump, jump, jump!"

;)
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 75   Go Up