Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue

[JeanMichel]

Hi Rand47

MacOS Mojave 10.14.3
Epsom Stylus Pro 3880

Am currently trying YouTube - tends to be either amazing or misleading

Hi,
Forget picking small pieces of advice from here or there. As a Lula user you have access to video tutorials on camera to print and Lightroom, etc. In addition, Andrew Rodney is offering access to some if not all his videos. Your time spent with those tutorial will be very rewarding.

[digitaldog]

Direct download link:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/7jejqj

Let us know if this is at all helpful.  If you do no more than confirm that color management is turned off in the printer driver and that only Photoshop is driving the bus, that will help.  Or, there's at least a small possibility that this IS the problem.

Rand

Be careful with the terminology for the 'newbies' as described by the OP (nothing wrong with that admission). In your first sentence after intro you say "let me help you check to have color management turned off in Photoshop" or something to that effect. You can't turn off color management in PS and you want to tell the viewer how to turn off color management in the print driver.
On the Mac, if you set Photoshop Manages Color (this is generically known as Application Manages Color), you can't not have the Mac printer driver set to anything but No Color Management as seen below. In the Color Matching area of the Mac driver, PS automatically sets ColorSync too, as also shown below. 

[Rand47]

Be careful with the terminology for the 'newbies' as described by the OP (nothing wrong with that admission). In your first sentence after intro you say "let me help you check to have color management turned off in Photoshop" or something to that effect. You can't turn off color management in PS and you want to tell the viewer how to turn off color management in the print driver.
On the Mac, if you set Photoshop Manages Color (this is generically known as Application Manages Color), you can't not have the Mac printer driver set to anything but No Color Management as seen below. In the Color Matching area of the Mac driver, PS automatically sets ColorSync too, as also shown below.

Andrew,

You're absolutely correct... I noticed that after I posted the video.  Fortunately, I hope I made it clear as I went along in the video that it is the driver where color management needs to be turned off, not Photoshop.  But I do appreciate what you're saying.  Too easy to add confusion rather than clarity.  Thanks for the call-out.

And thanks for the screen shots.  Hopefully, it will help being more specific to Mac OS.  Nice that the Mac OS takes care of that!

Rand

[Rand47]

Note to OP.

I hope it is obvious to you that Andrew's screen shots illustrate that my video is irrelevant (to your situation), since in the Mac OS if you have "Application Manages Color" properly selected, the printer driver, by default, will have its color management turned off.  That's a nice aspect of the Mac OS.

Hope my trying to be "helpful" hasn't caused confusion.

Rand

[sanfairyanne]

Quick late reply, I just made a small test print and it seems ok. I'm just going to re-watch digitaldog's tutorial before printing (just want to double check everything). It looks positive though  I'll come back to the forum in the next few hours.

[sanfairyanne]

Rand 47,

It might not be relevant, but I figured that because I'd been working with a U.S. printer driver instead of a UK printer driver I probably should remove my custom proof set ups (created on the U.S driver) and replace them with the UK printer driver installed. Even if this is not necessary I could do with knowing how to do it because I have one which is untitled (by mistake). As I say it may be unnecessary, but I figured it was worth checking.

Thanks



 

[Rand47]

Rand 47,

It might not be relevant, but I figured that because I'd been working with a U.S. printer driver instead of a UK printer driver I probably should remove my custom proof set ups (created on the U.S driver) and replace them with the UK printer driver installed. Even if this is not necessary I could do with knowing how to do it because I have one which is untitled (by mistake). As I say it may be unnecessary, but I figured it was worth checking.

Thanks

Hi,

Andrew is the person who would "really know," but I can say in general that since it is simple to delete the old presets, and rebuild new ones "starting fresh" seems like a good idea.

Rand

[sanfairyanne]

Digitaldog, 
(sorry I mistook you for Rand47)

It might not be relevant, but I figured that because I'd been working with a U.S. printer driver instead of a UK printer driver I probably should remove my custom proof set ups (created on the U.S driver) and replace them with the UK printer driver installed. Even if this is not necessary I could do with knowing how to do it because I have one which is untitled (by mistake). As I say it may be unnecessary, but I figured it was worth checking.

Thanks

[digitaldog]

Digitaldog, 
(sorry I mistook you for Rand47)

It might not be relevant, but I figured that because I'd been working with a U.S. printer driver instead of a UK printer driver I probably should remove my custom proof set ups (created on the U.S driver) and replace them with the UK printer driver installed. Even if this is not necessary I could do with knowing how to do it because I have one which is untitled (by mistake). As I say it may be unnecessary, but I figured it was worth checking.

Thanks

The customized proof setup's in Photoshop are based on the output profile, not the driver. The driver doesn't create anything other than some presets (which you never want to use in Lightroom as all the print templates handle this). Since you're not printing in LR, we can table that for now.

[sanfairyanne]

Digitaldog, You wrote: "The customized proof setup's in Photoshop are based on the output profile, not the driver. The driver doesn't create anything other than some presets"

I figured I could still do with knowing how to remove them, if nothing else other than one is untitled.

While I was waiting for your response I figured I'd just hit print and see if the U.S / Uk driver issue had solved anything - the small test print seemed to be a huge improvement. So I bit the bullet and hit print on a Super A3. The results are attached. So I'm hugely grateful to those who've replied especially Digitaldog and Rand47. It's monumentally irritating that having a U.S download printer driver would cause all this trouble (I have a UK purchased Epson Stylus Pro3880) Who would ever think that (certainly not the person at Epson (sorry I wrote Epsom so many times before).

Here's the final print. I'm not going to get too excited yet but I'm feeling I've got somewhere. (needless to say I didn't process this i-phone shot of the print for web!)

[Alan Goldhammer]

The driver doesn't create anything other than some presets (which you never want to use in Lightroom as all the print templates handle this).

You still have to configure the driver for the type of paper and size.  These can then be incorporated into a LR print template.  You cannot specify the paper size in LR otherwise (I know this from when I first tried to print something and there was a mismatch between the LR standard size that was selected and what the printer was expecting via the driver.  Of course once you have everything properly configured you don't have to revisit the driver at all.

[Rand47]

OP,

Check your private messages.

Rand

[sanfairyanne]

Rand47

R.E. thanks so much for all your help and for the video, I have to admit it's been a frustrating past two days for me. I'm abroad 99.9% of my life and so it's very hard to get to work on anything other than a laptop, for this reason printing has been a dark art which I've never mastered. I've been shooting since 09 and much like all the other digital guys and girls I'm wasting those megapixels on web images. To be able to finally print something is hugely rewarding. I just need to buy a house now to put some prints on the wall !

[nirpat89]

Digitaldog, You wrote: "The customized proof setup's in Photoshop are based on the output profile, not the driver. The driver doesn't create anything other than some presets"

I figured I could still do with knowing how to remove them, if nothing else other than one is untitled.

While I was waiting for your response I figured I'd just hit print and see if the U.S / Uk driver issue had solved anything - the small test print seemed to be a huge improvement. So I bit the bullet and hit print on a Super A3. The results are attached. So I'm hugely grateful to those who've replied especially Digitaldog and Rand47. It's monumentally irritating that having a U.S download printer driver would cause all this trouble (I have a UK purchased Epson Stylus Pro3880) Who would ever think that (certainly not the person at Epson (sorry I wrote Epsom so many times before).

Here's the final print. I'm not going to get too excited yet but I'm feeling I've got somewhere. (needless to say I didn't process this i-phone shot of the print for web!)

This could just be due to the iPhone picture, but your print in this attachment looks very similar to one inside the Print Setting window that you have shown before - clearly brownish as if the red was de-saturated out from the soft-proofed original.

Also how does the three images compare now with the new driver: As is, with soft-proof turned on, and inside the Print Setting window.  Just curious.

Hope you have solved your problem though.   Printing is fun, until it is not....

[digitaldog]

You still have to configure the driver for the type of paper and size.  These can then be incorporated into a LR print template.  You cannot specify the paper size in LR otherwise (I know this from when I first tried to print something and there was a mismatch between the LR standard size that was selected and what the printer was expecting via the driver.  Of course once you have everything properly configured you don't have to revisit the driver at all.

A print template in LR can be set for everything; print size, profile, rendering intent etc; to the degree all you have to do is simply press the "Print" button, nothing more after just selecting images to actually print in the filmstrip.
What you don't want is the driver setup for (in this example, an Epson) any preset but for Default Settings. Different in Photoshop where you might very well want a preset named say Luster Paper (for that media settings and all associated setting for Luster), and all the other configurable items in that print dialog. Not in LR.

[sanfairyanne]

Nirpat89

The iphone shot looks like crap. In person the print looks impressive (I could faff around a little with some highlights, but that's just processing) I can't get to the office right now, but the softproof really matched the print. I honestly can't say if the one inside the Print Setting window was close or not, I paid little attention to the one in the Print Setting window because Rand47and DigitalDog told me that other than using that box to get an idea of the print borders I was not to pay attention to it.

[Alan Goldhammer]

A print template in LR can be set for everything; print size, profile, rendering intent etc; to the degree all you have to do is simply press the "Print" button, nothing more after just selecting images to actually print in the filmstrip.
What you don't want is the driver setup for (in this example, an Epson) any preset but for Default Settings. Different in Photoshop where you might very well want a preset named say Luster Paper (for that media settings and all associated setting for Luster), and all the other configurable items in that print dialog. Not in LR.

I only have a 3880 and you have to set the paper size and the type in the driver.  LR cannot do this.  As I noted once you have established a driver preset that can be incorporated into a LR preset, otherwise LR has no clue about what paper you have put in the printer.  Your printer may differ as it is a newer model.  I was only speaking from my own experience.

[digitaldog]

I only have a 3880 and you have to set the paper size and the type in the driver.  LR cannot do this.  As I noted once you have established a driver preset that can be incorporated into a LR preset, otherwise LR has no clue about what paper you have put in the printer.  Your printer may differ as it is a newer model.  I was only speaking from my own experience.

I also have a 3880 (and P800): no such limitations. The templates after configuration of the driver of course, sets everything.

[Dinarius]

Interesting thread.

I'm returning to printing after a long absence because I need prints for a portfolio submission.

I am printing on an Epson R2400

I'm using Epson Luster and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag papers.

I have Photoshop setup for colour management.

I have black point and paper white selected. I am using manufacturer's profiles for the relevant papers.

If I have an image open and I choose File/Print, the image print preview is darker than the original open behind it. And that is exactly how it prints - a little darker.

If I create a curve layer and push up the middle of it about 10-15 points, or if I do similar with a Levels layer, I get a print which looks pretty much like the original image.

I guess what I'm asking is; assuming I have all the boxes correctly ticked in the setup, is a print slightly darker than the original the norm?

Thanks.

D.

[digitaldog]

Interesting thread.

I'm returning to printing after a long absence because I need prints for a portfolio submission.

I am printing on an Epson R2400

I'm using Epson Luster and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag papers.

I have Photoshop setup for colour management.

I have black point and paper white selected. I am using manufacturer's profiles for the relevant papers.

If I have an image open and I choose File/Print, the image print preview is darker than the original open behind it. And that is exactly how it prints - a little darker.

If I create a curve layer and push up the middle of it about 10-15 points, or if I do similar with a Levels layer, I get a print which looks pretty much like the original image.

I guess what I'm asking is; assuming I have all the boxes correctly ticked in the setup, is a print slightly darker than the original the norm?

Thanks.

D.

Why are my prints too dark?
A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013

In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:

Are your prints really too dark?
Display calibration and WYSIWYG
Proper print viewing conditions
Trouble shooting to get a match
Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4
Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4