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Author Topic: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue  (Read 7572 times)

sanfairyanne

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Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« on: March 19, 2019, 09:37:34 am »

I'm trying to make a print using LR - Photoshop CC (fully updated). My screen is calibrated, I have the printer/paper profile installed. I've processed in LR in ProPhoto then Command E >Open in Photoshop CC, my image is now in colour space AdobeRGB. I've done a bit of final sharpening and made sure that I'm looking at View>Proof Setup>my printer is checked and set to perceptual. When I hit Command P the Photoshop Print Settings dialogue box opens. It's here that I see the image showing how the print will fit on the paper i.e. with its border. The odd thing is that when I print the image doesn't in any way compare to the softproof image. It actually matches the image in the Print Settings dialogue box. I'm struggling with this because I don't know where to look (Google isn't helping). If anyone can make a suggestion I would really appreciate help.

Incidentally via a Google search I can see that someone else has had exactly the same problem: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/photoshop-soft-proof-does-not-match-print-preview

There are only two replies, one suggests going to this forum! the other suggests I try >Try changing PS Preferences> Performance> Graphics Processor Settings> Advanced Settings> Drawing Mode> Basic.

This has absolutely no affect for me.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 10:55:39 am by sanfairyanne »
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HarveyM43

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2019, 10:39:01 am »

I’m newish as well, but before the pros weigh in

1. My understanding is LR uses an single colorspace to work - kinda ‘ProPhoto like’
What you’re doing is exporting as a ProPhoto image. (why not export as Adobe RGB?)

2. Converting is probem-some. In PhotoShop you can assign a color space or convert to a color space. If you assign the color number stays the same, and the color appearance changes; for instance 94,62,233  prophoto is bright blue in AdobeRGB it's more purple. Convert translates the color appearance from one space to the other (keeping the color as close as possible).

3. If you print your soft-proof it goes through the printer profile  twice (not completely accurate, but close enough), once on the image and once in the printer driver. Turn off the soft-proof to print.   
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 10:51:42 am by HarveyM43 »
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2019, 10:50:58 am »

HarveyM43,

I'm willing to try your suggestion, but how do you 'Turn off the soft-proof to print' ? (sorry to sound so dim)

Incidentally on Dpreview someone else had the same issue and appears to have solved it, they say (below) that it was a "preview before printing" problem. Again though I don't really know how to solve that.  :P

"Thank you all for your suggestions, it turned out to be a "preview before printing" problem.
I turned it off and I got better prints"
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dehnhaide

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2019, 10:59:03 am »

I’m newish as well, but before the pros weigh in

1. My understanding is LR uses an single colorspace to work - kinda ‘ProPhoto like’
What you’re doing is exporting as a ProPhoto image. (why not export as Adobe RGB?)

2. Converting is probem-some. In PhotoShop you can assign a color space or convert to a color space. If you assign the color number stays the same, and the color appearance changes; for instance 94,62,233  prophoto is bright blue in AdobeRGB it's more purple. Convert translates the color appearance from one space to the other (keeping the color as close as possible).

3. If you print your soft-proof it goes through the printer profile  twice (not completely accurate, but close enough), once on the image and once in the printer driver. Turn off the soft-proof to print.   

You're gonna get scolded! Don't say you didn't see it coming...
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nirpat89

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2019, 11:01:13 am »

Check the "simulate paper Color" option in the Proof Color settings and the Print settings.  If they do not match (off or on) they might create some discrepancy, particularly if you are using matte papers with significant off-whiteness in the base color.
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nirpat89

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2019, 11:02:23 am »

You're gonna get scolded! Don't say you didn't see it coming...

 :)
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Garnick

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 11:06:30 am »

I’m newish as well, but before the pros weigh in

1. My understanding is LR uses an single colorspace to work - kinda ‘ProPhoto like’
What you’re doing is exporting as a ProPhoto image. (why not export as Adobe RGB?)

2. Converting is probem-some. In PhotoShop you can assign a color space or convert to a color space. If you assign the color number stays the same, and the color appearance changes; for instance 94,62,233  prophoto is bright blue in AdobeRGB it's more purple. Convert translates the color appearance from one space to the other (keeping the color as close as possible).

3. If you print your soft-proof it goes through the printer profile  twice (not completely accurate, but close enough), once on the image and once in the printer driver. Turn off the soft-proof to print.   

I all my years of printing I have never encountered a situation in which the print looked like the soft-proof, and quite honestly, I would never want that to happen.  The point of soft proofing is to take into account the particular paper you are printing on and try to make the soft-proof look as close to the original image as possible.  Therefore, what you are doing is compensating for the paper/ink combination that you will be using to create the print.  Although I cannot be certain about this in LR, I do know that the print dialog display in PS means nothing as far as the "appearance" of the image is concerned, it's only for positioning of the image on the paper etc.  I will say that this is true for the Mac OS, but perhaps not for Windows, not sure.  As far as turning off the soft-proof is concerned, that has never been an issue in my experience and I've never had any such problem that indicated that it should be turned off.

EDIT:  Sorry, it seems that a few of us were a writing a reply simultaneously.  Glad you found the problem  :)   

Gary   
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 11:10:06 am by Garnick »
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HarveyM43

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 11:19:15 am »

You're gonna get scolded! Don't say you didn't see it coming...

If I learn something new I welcome the teachable moment!  ;D





"The two most exciting states to be in are either wrong, or confused. Because that means there’s more to learn."
Dr Laurance Kruess

 
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 11:34:24 am »

Sorry for the delay guys I've been trying to figure this out, I'm really none the wiser. I did try changing my Lightroom settings... LR>Preferences>External Editing>ColorSpace = Adobe RGB (from having been on Prophoto.
It didn't make any difference.

I assumed that when you hit File>Print and looked at the Photoshop Print Settings dialogue box you were only really seeing a preview of the image and how it fits on the paper i.e. there's a border etc.
It seems my printed image is a precise copy of that preview and not at all like the soft proofed image. Here's another screen grab to show my settings:

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smthopr

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 11:39:16 am »

I all my years of printing I have never encountered a situation in which the print looked like the soft-proof, and quite honestly, I would never want that to happen.  The point of soft proofing is to take into account the particular paper you are printing on and try to make the soft-proof look as close to the original image as possible.  Therefore, what you are doing is compensating for the paper/ink combination that you will be using to create the print.  Although I cannot be certain about this in LR, I do know that the print dialog display in PS means nothing as far as the "appearance" of the image is concerned, it's only for positioning of the image on the paper etc.  I will say that this is true for the Mac OS, but perhaps not for Windows, not sure.  As far as turning off the soft-proof is concerned, that has never been an issue in my experience and I've never had any such problem that indicated that it should be turned off.

EDIT:  Sorry, it seems that a few of us were a writing a reply simultaneously.  Glad you found the problem  :)   

Gary   



I must be doing something wrong.  My prints look very very close to my "soft proofs".  I admit that I'm printing through Photoshop, and not Lightroom.

While the goal may be to make adjustments to the image while viewing the soft proof, to make the image print as best it can (given the limitations of the printer/paper/ink combo), to do this requires that the soft proof look like the actual print!

If the soft proof doesn't look like the print, something is wrong with the workflow, the display calibration, the printer profile, or a combination of all or some of the above.

When engaging the soft proof function, one's first reaction is usually that the image looks "flat".  I find that that setting photoshop to surround the image with a  white background (instead of the default grey) helps make the contrast look more correct, to my eye.  In other words, the "blacks" look darker when surrounded by a white background.

I do make my own printer profiles, and do have my display calibrated with an iOne Display Pro.
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smthopr

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2019, 11:43:13 am »

Sorry for the delay guys I've been trying to figure this out, I'm really none the wiser. I did try changing my Lightroom settings... LR>Preferences>External Editing>ColorSpace = Adobe RGB (from having been on Prophoto.
It didn't make any difference.

I assumed that when you hit File>Print and looked at the Photoshop Print Settings dialogue box you were only really seeing a preview of the image and how it fits on the paper i.e. there's a border etc.
It seems my printed image is a precise copy of that preview and not at all like the soft proofed image. Here's another screen grab to show my settings:

Though I print in Photoshop, and not Lightroom, I DO find that my Photoshop soft proof looks exactly like the soft proof that shows in the Photoshop print dialog box.  I suspect that you don't have your soft proof settings set correctly.  Perhaps there is a box for "preview" that is not checked?  I'm thinking that your soft proof is not really activated, when you think it is.
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2019, 12:20:09 pm »

Smthopr,

I always try different backgrounds when processing, it's a sensible approach.

You wrote "Perhaps there is a box for "preview" that is not checked?  I'm thinking that your soft proof is not really activated, when you think it is"

If there is a check box I don't know which one, if my soft proof is not really activated I don't know why, tapping command Y toggles the view from softproof on or off (as far as I'm aware). When you've tapped command Y the image title should show the file number followed by the profile like this (below) as mine does - indicating that in this case my image is set up with the icc profile for LumaChromeAcrylic and therefore softproofing is setup correctly.

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digitaldog

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2019, 12:20:32 pm »

I'm trying to make a print using LR - Photoshop CC (fully updated). My screen is calibrated, I have the printer/paper profile installed. I've processed in LR in ProPhoto then Command E >Open in Photoshop CC, my image is now in colour space AdobeRGB.
You converted to Adobe RGB (1998) upon opening (not sure why). Or your Open in PS Prefs are set for that (again I don't know why).
You processed in a cousin of ProPhoto RGB.

Quote
I've done a bit of final sharpening and made sure that I'm looking at View>Proof Setup>my printer is checked and set to perceptual. When I hit Command P the Photoshop Print Settings dialogue box opens. It's here that I see the image showing how the print will fit on the paper i.e. with its border. The odd thing is that when I print the image doesn't in any way compare to the softproof image.
Forget what you see in the Print dialog in PS. You need to soft proof prior to that using View>Proof Setup.
Quote
It actually matches the image in the Print Settings dialogue box. I'm struggling with this because I don't know where to look (Google isn't helping).

NOT in the Print Settings Dialog even with the check boxes (it's buggy and depending on the version, doesn't work; ignore it).
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2019, 12:33:13 pm »

digitaldog,

I didn't convert to Adobe RGB upon opening, it was originally coming from LR as Prophoto, so I tried export as Adobe RGB just to see if it had any affect.

You write "Forget what you see in the Print dialog in PS. You need to soft proof prior to that using View>Proof Setup"

I did this, I was looking solely at the Proof set up, I toggled Command Y to make sure it was working. When I hit command P I assumed the Print dialogue box was showing an image purely to indicate how it fit onto the page (i.e with a border) so I paid little attention to it. It's just super odd (and maybe a coincidence) but the final print seems a complete match for that Print dialogue box image and not at all like the softproof image.
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digitaldog

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2019, 12:34:50 pm »

It's just super odd (and maybe a coincidence) but the final print seems a complete match for that Print dialogue box image and not at all like the softproof image.
IF that's the case, your display calibration is way, way off. It needs to match the Proof Setup prior to using that dialog box.
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digitaldog

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2019, 12:39:08 pm »

Latest version of Photoshop CC.
Image is soft proofing with printer profile, paper and ink simulation using Custom Proof setup (left).
Same settings in Print dialog (right).
They don't match. It's not as far off as versions in the past but not correct. Ignore "soft proof" or any color rendering in Print Dialog, only pay attention to the actual soft proof in Photoshop proper.
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nirpat89

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2019, 12:45:49 pm »


NOT in the Print Settings Dialog even with the check boxes (it's buggy and depending on the version, doesn't work; ignore it).


So all those options below the Print Preview (namely, Match Print Colors, Gamut Warning, and Show Paper White) are not to be trusted.  I always thought they were a little iffy.  Is this true for Mac as well as PC's?  Wonder why Adobe wouldn't want to fix it.

It does look like the fact that the print matches this Preview is probably a (un)happy coincidence, then.  Display calibration would be next thing to check, I suppose.

:Niranjan.
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smthopr

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2019, 12:48:14 pm »

I'm trying to make a print using LR - Photoshop CC (fully updated). My screen is calibrated, I have the printer/paper profile installed. I've processed in LR in ProPhoto then Command E >Open in Photoshop CC, my image is now in colour space AdobeRGB. I've done a bit of final sharpening and made sure that I'm looking at View>Proof Setup>my printer is checked and set to perceptual. When I hit Command P the Photoshop Print Settings dialogue box opens. It's here that I see the image showing how the print will fit on the paper i.e. with its border. The odd thing is that when I print the image doesn't in any way compare to the softproof image. It actually matches the image in the Print Settings dialogue box. I'm struggling with this because I don't know where to look (Google isn't helping). If anyone can make a suggestion I would really appreciate help.

Incidentally via a Google search I can see that someone else has had exactly the same problem: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/photoshop-soft-proof-does-not-match-print-preview

There are only two replies, one suggests going to this forum! the other suggests I try >Try changing PS Preferences> Performance> Graphics Processor Settings> Advanced Settings> Drawing Mode> Basic.

This has absolutely no affect for me.

Something is going off course here.

First, start over from lightroom and open your image in photoshop in prophoto RGB, just to eliminate one variable.

Second, adjust your image in Photoshop to your liking.

Ready to print?  Now go to view/proof/setup and select your printer profile, but leave the dialog box open.

Did you see any change to the image?  Certainly the contrast should drop to limited range of the print.  If nothing has changed, make sure that the "preview" check box is checked.  If checked, uncheck it and look for a change.  Nothing?  Check the box again. You should see the application of the softproof change when checking/unchecking this box.  And... make sure you have not selected "absolute colormetric" as the rendering intent by accident!

If you have done all this, and there is no change in the image when softproofing, I might suggest deleting and re-installing Photoshop to see if that helps.

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JeanMichel

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2019, 12:49:43 pm »

Sanfairyanne,

It might help you to check out the Camera to Print and LR videos available in the main site. They are excellent primers for learning to print.

And, since you do use LR, why nor print from LR. My own way of working, even if a file need to go to PS for some editing, is to go back to LR for soft-proofing and printing. The same 'master file' can be soft-proofed for different papers and printers, sized, etc., it is just so much more efficient to print from LR.
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smthopr

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2019, 12:51:58 pm »

So all those options below the Print Preview (namely, Match Print Colors, Gamut Warning, and Show Paper White) are not to be trusted.  I always thought they were a little iffy.  Is this true for Mac as well as PC's?  Wonder why Adobe wouldn't want to fix it.

It does look like the fact that the print matches this Preview is probably a (un)happy coincidence, then.  Display calibration would be next thing to check, I suppose.

:Niranjan.
I'm using Windows and I'm not finding the issue that Andrew has described with the print dialog preview.  That said, there is no reason to use or trust the print dialog preview anyway, except for positioning of the image on the paper.
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