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Author Topic: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue  (Read 7573 times)

Rand47

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2019, 07:48:45 pm »

Quote
In other words the fact that I didn't work as a smart object shouldn't make such a noticeable difference for my current soft proofed print.

Right. The smart object work flow just has advantages, in my opinion, for editing in general, but won't have any impact on soft proofing (all things being equal.)

My guess is that something in your work flow / set up is out of whack.  Hard for any of us to diagnose with certainty from "afar."  But watch Andrew Rodney's video a few times re Photoshop and also the LR version of that same content.  No one knows this subject better than Andrew.  You may find where the problem is as you see his demonstration(s).

Rand
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digitaldog

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2019, 08:17:41 pm »

The Smart Object is nothing more than embedding the raw (a copy of the raw) in the PS document. Then you can re-edit it but using ACR within PS. But now LR is out of the picture so to speak. That raw isn't in the S.O. You could go back to LR and edit it of course. Where the S.O. is interesting is how it interacts with the other layers and existing rendered data. That's not possible with LR.
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2019, 08:31:03 pm »

Digitadog I think I get the point about smart objects.  Can I just quickly put you towards a post on Dpreview where someone describes an identical issue to mine.
That person goes on at the end to say this "Thank you all for your suggestions, it turned out to be a "preview before printing" problem.
"I turned it off and I got better prints"

The post is here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3261242?page=2

I'm not entirely sure about this "preview before printing" box. I checked on your video and you keep the preview button checked in the Customize Proof Condition dialogue box. It does have a wild effect to my image if I toggle it on and off. I wondered if it was this that was causing the problem for the guy on Dpreview. Sadly the response to his problem is pretty vague - unless "it turned out to be a "preview before printing" problem means anything to you?
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digitaldog

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2019, 08:35:10 pm »

Can I just quickly put you towards a post on Dpreview where someone describes an identical issue to mine.
That person goes on at the end to say this "Thank you all for your suggestions, it turned out to be a "preview before printing" problem.
"I turned it off and I got better prints"
Doesn't make any sense, such previews don't affect output.
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Rand47

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2019, 08:39:38 pm »

One man’s opinion, but that DP thread is filled with complete bushwah.... 

Rand
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digitaldog

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2019, 08:42:51 pm »

One man’s opinion, but that DP thread is filled with complete bushwah.... 

Rand
You're being so kind.  It's often a cesspool of nonsensical postings.  ;)

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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2019, 08:44:57 pm »

Rand and Digitaldog,

Thanks for checking it out guys. Seriously gotta sleep now though. I've got a few days off work and plan to make some prints, so I'm straight back into this in the morning.
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Rand47

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2019, 10:22:00 am »

Good morning to the OP.

I don’t want to beat a dead horse here, but let me reinforce something that has been said a couple of times in this thread.  When you ask for a “print preview” in the driver settings, and it comes up on the screen, IT ISN’T COLOR MANAGED and will look terrible 99.9% of the time.  The purpose of this preview is merely to confirm how the image is laid out on the paper.  That’s it.  Nothing else.  The appearance (color etc.) of this print preview HAS NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER on the the original image, or the soft proof version that you’ve tweaked to look “appropriate” for that image on your selected printer and paper (via proper ICC profile applied).  And has no impact on what data is sent to the printer. 

Ergo, turning off the print preview selection as a way to try to change what is going on with your work flow, is totally a fool’s errand.  Don’t waste or invest any of your time chasing that wild goose.  Your problem is somewhere else.

Also, though I much prefer Lightroom’s soft proofing and printing to Photoshop’s, if you follow Andrew Rodney’s instructions on proper work flow, procedures, understanding of the process... the same image, printed through Photoshop OR Lightroom, should look identical assuming the same printer / paper.

Good luck as you work through this today.

Rand
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2019, 10:34:51 am »

Thanks Rand47

I totally understand what you're saying about the print preview. It may as well just be a random colour on a white background (where white signifies how much border you have. I was (and still am) confused because the print preview is a complete colour match for the final print. I appreciate this may just be a coincidence.

This morning I just downloaded the Epsom driver onto my laptop, I had hoped to try a test print from my laptop to see if that works. I'm struggling at the moment because for the life of me I can't find the icc profile for my Epsom Premium Lustre Paper. Epsom Online Chat opens in 40 mins, so I figured I'd try them. I also tried the RedRiver catalogue but they don't seem to have my papers icc either.

Again I'm prepared also to go to LR to try a test print.
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Rand47

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2019, 10:49:58 am »

Quote
I appreciate this may just be a coincidence.

Yup... and in this case an unfortunate conincidence, because it is distracting you from whatever the real issue is.   :D

Again, beating the dead horse, are you certain that you have color management turned off in the printer driver, so that ONLY Photoshop is driving the bus?  If you don’t, you’ll often get the kind of garish results that “may” resemble the print prieview (completely by coincidence!!!).  I’ve made prints like this on purpose to demonstrate results of this mistake for members of a club I belong to (where I pass on the great info I’ve learned here on LuLa from Andrew, Jeff Schewe, Mark Segal and others).

Rand
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 10:55:06 am by Rand47 »
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2019, 10:55:44 am »

Rand47

You wrote: "are you certain that you have color management turned off in the printer driver, so that ONLY Photoshop is driving the bus?"

I'm not entirely sure no - can you describe how to do this please
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Rand47

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2019, 11:03:41 am »

Rand47

You wrote: "are you certain that you have color management turned off in the printer driver, so that ONLY Photoshop is driving the bus?"

I'm not entirely sure no - can you describe how to do this please

I scanned the thread quickly but don’t see what printer you’re using?  Where, and how to turn off printer driver color management is different for different printer brands / models.  YouTube “may” be your friend if you search on, e.g., “How to turn off color management on my Epson SC P800...”

But if you share exact printer brand / model, someone here should be able to quickly tell you how to turn off (or confirm) color management in that particular driver.  Also share what OS you have, Mac or PC.

UPDATE:  I see you mention Epson driver!  Sorry I missed that.  What model?  What OS?
Rand
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 11:11:36 am by Rand47 »
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2019, 11:12:31 am »

Hi Rand47

MacOS Mojave 10.14.3
Epsom Stylus Pro 3880

Am currently trying YouTube - tends to be either amazing or misleading
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2019, 11:19:08 am »

Hi Rand47

MacOS Mojave 10.14.3
Epsom Stylus Pro 3880

Am currently trying YouTube - tends to be either amazing or misleading
All the profiles for Epson papers should install automatically when you download and install the printer driver.  I know there is a problem with MacOS and driver/printer installation (something about Airprint????  I'm unsure as I am on Windows 10).  Someone with Mac OS experience might want to weigh in.  I also have an Epson 3880 and all the Red River profiles for that printer are here:  https://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/epson-pro-3880-color-icc-profiles.html 
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Rand47

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2019, 11:25:08 am »

Hi Rand47

MacOS Mojave 10.14.3
Epsom Stylus Pro 3880

Am currently trying YouTube - tends to be either amazing or misleading

OK, great.  I’m Windows based and don’t own a 3880, but many here do!  So, hopefully someone can post a screen shot of exactly what you need to check!

Rand
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digitaldog

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2019, 11:27:30 am »

There is nothing to actually "turn on or off" in PSs print preview as possibly doable in a "print driver". Again, ignore either/both except for FPO.
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smthopr

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2019, 11:30:52 am »

I think it would be helpful here for you to make screenshots of every step of your printing process.  And that means the original photoshop working page, the adobe print dialog box, and the "print settings" that show your Epson print driver settings.

I would at this point, not suggest switching to lightroom for printing until you understand the workflow error in Photoshop.

If you're working on a Mac, and don't see the printer profile for your Epson brand paper, it's possible that you've installed a generic print driver from Apple rather than the real Epson print driver.  When you install the real Epson print driver, all the Epson paper profiles should be visible in Photoshop, but may require a restart of Photoshop, and maybe the computer itself.
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nirpat89

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2019, 12:10:01 pm »

On my Epson P400 driver at least, one can turn off the Color Management (Mode = Off (No Color Management)) and yet can change brightness, saturation, etc. and even the tone by going on to the Advanced tab. If the parameters there are not set to default, the print color can be affected even though there is no actual color management (i.e. application of paper profile) in the printer driver. 

:Niranjan.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 01:11:59 pm by nirpat89 »
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Rand47

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2019, 12:45:44 pm »

OK, great.  I’m Windows based and don’t own a 3880, but many here do!  So, hopefully someone can post a screen shot of exactly what you need to check!

Rand

Hi, OP . . .

I've created a little video showing where / how to turn off color management in your printer driver in Photoshop.  My demo video is for an Epsson SC P600 (and I'm hoping that is at least similar to your 3880 - I can't remember).  Also, caveat, my demo is on a Windows machine, so the actual look of the various dialog boxes may be a little different, but you should be able to sort through that to where exactly it is on your Mac.

Direct download link:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/7jejqj

Let us know if this is at all helpful.  If you do no more than confirm that color management is turned off in the printer driver and that only Photoshop is driving the bus, that will help.  Or, there's at least a small possibility that this IS the problem.

Rand
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Newbie (ish) softproof - print issue
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2019, 12:48:58 pm »

Ok guys, sorry for the delay. I've been onto online chat with Epson. It appears that because I downloaded the Epson U.S driver it WILL NOT WORK on a UK purchased Epson 3880 printer - who'd have guessed hey!!!! - pretty irritating. The lady on the chat thought it odd too. It also appears that if you have "Photoshop Manages Color'' then  colour management is turned off for the printer driver.

I need to do a test print and see where I get to. Will reply shortly
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