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Author Topic: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued  (Read 10621 times)

Eric Brody

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2019, 10:51:42 pm »

It has been said, by someone far wiser than me, that a tripod is the sharpest lens you can buy. By that reasoning, IBIS is the next sharpest.
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George_Cleansman

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2019, 01:24:53 am »

Absolut right your estimation about the use of a tripod! So I hope that the next H7D (a bit heavier, but with no need for IBIS) will come in future soon.  ;)
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Kirk_C

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2019, 02:28:18 am »

So I hope that the next H7D (a bit heavier, but with no need for IBIS) will come in future soon.  ;)

I'd say the H series will never see a 7. The system is dead, has been for sometime.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2019, 03:25:53 am »

I'd say the H series will never see a 7. The system is dead, has been for sometime.

I am not sure you are right on this. I don't know why Hasselblad wouldn't release a version of the H6D featuring the 150mp Sony part. Whether they call it H7D or not is anybody's guess, but I would call it H7D if I were them.

It is a low cost development for them and IMHO the H6D body remains superior to the P1 XF and its electronic platform is brand new and already mirrorless friendly.

Cheers,
Bernard

Christopher

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2019, 04:22:04 am »

Perhaps it is for you. For me the H feels still pretty ancient and very uncomfortable in my hands compared to my XF. I would also miss many features the Hasselblad just doesn’t have and probably won’t get.

Besides that I’m not sure if it’s that easy. Even Hasselblad probably would need a new processor and some more speed for the modern Sony chip.

While I’m not happy with Phase Ones launch disaster of the Iq4150, I’m not sure it would be so much easier for Hasselblad, especially they would need to refresh a few lenses.


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eronald

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2019, 04:26:18 am »

I am not sure you are right on this. I don't know why Hasselblad wouldn't release a version of the H6D featuring the 150mp Sony part. Whether they call it H7D or not is anybody's guess, but I would call it H7D if I were them.

It is a low cost development for them and IMHO the H6D body remains superior to the P1 XF and its electronic platform is brand new and already mirrorless friendly.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, I agree, photographers with H workflows will turn to a 150MP H just as Phase users turned to the new IQ4 150. There won't be much buy-in from new users, but at upgrade prices there should be a steady flow of return customers.

A possible future development would be an H-series mirrorless body. If no viewfinder is included -ie for tethered use- it could just be a metal box with a lensmount like the Alpa. I think most of the smarts of the H have already migrated to the back.

Edmund
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Rob C

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2019, 03:18:37 pm »

Hi rastas,
your "Fuji, please make a tilt shift lens" reminds me of Cato the elder who finished every speech with the sentence "Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed".
I am on your side concerning this  ;)
Marc


Marc, you've been reading Slobodan.

BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 04:23:11 pm »

A possible future development would be an H-series mirrorless body.
There already is one. it is called the X1D or whatever comes next.
If you are going to use the H series lenses then you still need the sensor plane to lens distance, which is provided by an empty metal tube called the XV adapter. It works really well tethered or even handheld, at least with short lenses.
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pschefz

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2019, 05:50:01 pm »

the H system has been dead for a while, the lenses aren't ready for 100 or 150 mix and there is zero reason to go there anyway....
at this point it seems that the choice of camera in a commercial setting comes down to what the digitech wants to work with and there is no reason not to work with C1, so phase won....i think of them as a software company no more than ever, i hope they will keep making cameras but it will get harder and harder to justify the higher and higher prices....
if the brand hasselblad wants to be around in a few years, they should look at what leica is doing, the X1D was a step in the right direction, one of the prettiest cameras ever, no need to stay at the bleeding edge and try to compete with sony,nikon, canon or fuji in terms of tech and definitely not price....i do think they will have to come up with something a little more with their glass....in any leica discussion it always comes down to the glass and certain personal opinions are hard to argue with or about....
i hope there will be X2D, not sure if the target market would not prefer a 50 and a 100 mpix version, a lot of leica shooters like a lower pixel count, and for most people it does make sense...

as for fuji, they clearly won that part of the market, phase letting fuji in was a shrewd move, it helped fuji out but mostly hurt hasselblad....the 50 R/S bodies were clearly a warm up for what is coming, lenses are great and incredibly affordable, the new body might not look as pretty as the X1D but with all that tech (AF, IBIS, 10bit 4:2:2 out!) who cares? it looks like any SLR style body and i am sure i would be able to pick it up and shoot without major issues....definitely smaller and lighter then any phase or H system....

i am still not really sure who this 33x44 market is for though.....all FF systems are crazy in terms of IQ and still beat the larger systems in size, speed, price,...and phase does have the "shut up" top of the line system for those kind of jobs....

i do love the fujis (and have a special place in my heart for the X1D) but the sony (nikon) gets the job done faster and just as good....
the AF tracking just introduced in the 6400 (!) is insane....holding focus at 1.4 like it is glued on....i never (rarely) shoot wider then f4, mostly 5.6 but still....adobe introducing AI....fuji might be able to keep up (they have to because of the smaller cams) but hasselblad can't....

i am not saying hasselblad should go the limited edition route, but a solid improvement to the X1D in terms of overall speed, introduction of some sexier lenses and market to the leica/lifestyle crowd...that should be a winner...price has to be higher at that point (otherwise everybody can afford it, no fun in that)

or just shoot film, that is way hotter right now anyway....
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2019, 05:58:26 pm »

the H system has been dead for a while, the lenses aren't ready for 100 or 150 mix and there is zero reason to go there anyway....

Sorry, but that simply isn't true.

I have shot the H6D-100c extensively with a variety of H lenses and the only one that isn't up to the task is the 100mm f2.2 near wide open. Stop it down to f5.6 and it is truly excellent.

The 28mm f4, 50mm II, 210mm f4 and 300mm f4.5 have zero issues to deal with 100mp even wide open. The difference in micro detail with my Roddy 90mm HR on Arca is tiny.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 06:01:48 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Richard Man

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2019, 06:27:31 pm »

I don't know which lenses he uses, but my friend Oliver Klink, who prints 4 feet wide regularly with his own ink mix, travels all over the world with his 6D-100c (and even a set of Profoto - but that's another story). I don't think he is disappointed at the lens performance at all ~_o.
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BJL

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Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued—what's next? 54x40mm mirrorless too?
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2019, 07:58:09 pm »

...
A possible future development would be an H-series mirrorless body. If no viewfinder is included -ie for tethered use- it could just be a metal box with a lensmount like the Alpa. I think most of the smarts of the H have already migrated to the back.
I take it you mean (a) a body that takes the H system backs, not an integrated camera as with the X system, and (b) supporting lenses and backs in the H series' 54x40mm format rather than just 44x33mm.

Given that "most of the smarts of the H have already migrated to the back", also removing the OVF assembly would leave very little for a mirrorless H body to do; I think there would be little cost penalty and significant gains in bulk (and environmental sealing) by integrating sensor into the body. So all I can envision following Hasselblad's mirrorless X system is an "X max" (naming a la iPhones) with 54x40mm sensor, matching lenses, and adaptors for current H lenses and so on (copying Canon's drop-in filter draw?)  Maybe the current X mount is wide enough; I do not know its throat diameter off-hand.
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pschefz

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2019, 11:44:32 am »

Sorry, but that simply isn't true.

I have shot the H6D-100c extensively with a variety of H lenses and the only one that isn't up to the task is the 100mm f2.2 near wide open. Stop it down to f5.6 and it is truly excellent.

The 28mm f4, 50mm II, 210mm f4 and 300mm f4.5 have zero issues to deal with 100mp even wide open. The difference in micro detail with my Roddy 90mm HR on Arca is tiny.

Cheers,
Bernard
i apologize, i did not mean to say that all existing lenses cant handle existing cameras, but with the XD line out if just does not seem worth expanding on the H system from this point on....
IMO both the H and the phase systems have been for market that has gotten smaller and smaller, FF mirrorless has been  pushing into this market as well, GFX and X1D are taking a lot of the landscape part of that market and phase has C1 which at this point, for high end rental and commercial situations will be the decisive factor....
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SrMi

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2019, 11:56:17 am »

i apologize, i did not mean to say that all existing lenses cant handle existing cameras, but with the XD line out if just does not seem worth expanding on the H system from this point on....
IMO both the H and the phase systems have been for market that has gotten smaller and smaller, FF mirrorless has been  pushing into this market as well, GFX and X1D are taking a lot of the landscape part of that market and phase has C1 which at this point, for high end rental and commercial situations will be the decisive factor....

I also disagree with your statement that "the H system has been dead for a while" (nobody told that Burtynsky yet).
Note that all mirrorless MF cameras are actually "crop MF" cameras. Phase One and H6D cameras have a sensor that is 1.5x larger than GFX and X1D sensors.
Some people think that sensor size matters.
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George_Cleansman

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2019, 03:42:01 pm »

Actually there is a hype about mirrorless cameras. Sure they have advantages, if their lenses have no retrofocus designs. You can see that optical advantage if you look to the Leica M/SL lenses, the Fuji X/G lenses and of course the Hasselblad X lenses. They are compact and have excellent optical properties. On the other side the mirrorless cameras need much more energy first for the electronic viewfinder and second for the IBIS. Bigger batteries and IBIS lead to a bigger camera size. Today the electronic viewfinder has advantages, but also some disadvantages. May be in 5 years these cons will disappear.

But now the H camera is still a good camera, may be with the requirement of some smart features the Phase One XF surely has. The H lenses are ready for 100 MP and most also for 150 MP, except the HCD lenses because they did not cover the big sensor format 54x40. The X1D camera is a nice designed camera, but has also disadvantages for example with low resolution in the optical viewfinder and a warm camera body during longer shootings. And because of the lower weight compared to the H camera basically the X camera needs a IBIS - or a tripod for excellent image quality. With more and more resolution up to 100 MP there is no handheld shooting possible if you will achieve best image quality.

So I hope that Hasselblad will bring a new H7D for users who are not willing to sell their H cameras and H lenses for nearly nothing cash to buy a mirrorless camera that is now not fully developed. For me the bigger weight of the H camera is no problem on my Gitzo tripod and also the optical quality of my H system for me is still excellent. The rest of lack in optical quality takes Photoshop. I hope that Hasselblad will not forget their H costumers.

     
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:43:13 pm by George_Cleansman »
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BAB

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2019, 11:31:00 pm »

If the current owner of The Hasselblad company provided not only the financial resources but used its vast networks of experts worldwide (if they did they sure kept it quite) to forge on and break the antiquated Swedish roadmap some of your guys wishes may come true!


The current H6D body is a medium quality build and could use a full remake as its current design doesn’t lend itself to a camera incorporating built-in wanted modern feature upgrades. The back and top screen are sub standard today. The lack of live per channel raw Histogram is not something I want to live without any longer. Im also done with hearing the excuses like your request for xxxx Is not a frequently requested item. I don’t know about you but I’m looking for my next camera to help me not for me to help it. The latest version of Phocus is buggy and slow, stupid slow...even in the studio tethered I was surprised to see they F Ed that up. The current sensor box could easily be moved to many different platforms, the current X1D could be upgraded?, and it goes without saying the Firmware is lacking.
My guess it is either something completely new or a rehashed “crippled offering” with a few new bells and whistles and more dangling golden carrots. Why. I’m not sure the latest sensors are ready for prime time given the issues with Phase and Fuji still needing at least three more months to iron out firmware coding and testing.
Tell me where I’m wrong!
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SrMi

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2019, 12:05:35 am »

If the current owner of The Hasselblad company provided not only the financial resources but used its vast networks of experts worldwide (if they did they sure kept it quite) to forge on and break the antiquated Swedish roadmap some of your guys wishes may come true!


The current H6D body is a medium quality build and could use a full remake as its current design doesn’t lend itself to a camera incorporating built-in wanted modern feature upgrades. The back and top screen are sub standard today. The lack of live per channel raw Histogram is not something I want to live without any longer. Im also done with hearing the excuses like your request for xxxx Is not a frequently requested item. I don’t know about you but I’m looking for my next camera to help me not for me to help it. The latest version of Phocus is buggy and slow, stupid slow...even in the studio tethered I was surprised to see they F Ed that up. The current sensor box could easily be moved to many different platforms, the current X1D could be upgraded?, and it goes without saying the Firmware is lacking.
My guess it is either something completely new or a rehashed “crippled offering” with a few new bells and whistles and more dangling golden carrots. Why. I’m not sure the latest sensors are ready for prime time given the issues with Phase and Fuji still needing at least three more months to iron out firmware coding and testing.
Tell me where I’m wrong!

"live per channel raw Histogram" is available only with some Phase One cameras, correct? Everybody else (Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc) are doing just fine without it, though I would love to have it on them as well.
I only occasionally use Phocus, but have never found it "buggy" and "stupid slow". What version are you using?
H6D OVF is unmatched AFAIK, and as a photographic tool (apart from its weight and size) it is excellent and a joy to use.
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eronald

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2019, 05:03:35 am »

If the current owner of The Hasselblad company provided not only the financial resources but used its vast networks of experts worldwide (if they did they sure kept it quite) to forge on and break the antiquated Swedish roadmap some of your guys wishes may come true!


The current H6D body is a medium quality build and could use a full remake as its current design doesn’t lend itself to a camera incorporating built-in wanted modern feature upgrades. The back and top screen are sub standard today. The lack of live per channel raw Histogram is not something I want to live without any longer. Im also done with hearing the excuses like your request for xxxx Is not a frequently requested item. I don’t know about you but I’m looking for my next camera to help me not for me to help it. The latest version of Phocus is buggy and slow, stupid slow...even in the studio tethered I was surprised to see they F Ed that up. The current sensor box could easily be moved to many different platforms, the current X1D could be upgraded?, and it goes without saying the Firmware is lacking.
My guess it is either something completely new or a rehashed “crippled offering” with a few new bells and whistles and more dangling golden carrots. Why. I’m not sure the latest sensors are ready for prime time given the issues with Phase and Fuji still needing at least three more months to iron out firmware coding and testing.
Tell me where I’m wrong!


DJI do have sexy new-gen camera designs, phone-sized devices that you just take out of your pocket and throw up in the air,  science-fiction minicams that buzz around and make movies, be it in a room or on a mountaintop. The current models are a bit like Apple II computers , more toy than tool, but one can see what's coming.

In computer terms,Phase,  Hassy and Fuji co are just designing a better mainframe. The mainframe or server isn't dead, but it's not anymore at the centre of innovation.

I find it interesting that most of us on the forum have ignored the action cam and now drone revolution. While my local FNAC camera storedoes sell Fuji GFX-50 and Nikon D5, what really takes up shelf space are flying, hovering and even swimming drones, gopro styled action cameras and accessories.

Nobody here really expects the world to hand them a better tripod tomorrow, maybe we should get over the idea that we will get a better medium format camera that soon ;D


Edmund



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Rob C

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2019, 08:04:37 am »

I wonder if being older makes one more appreciative of what exists?

Whilst 135 format bodies contain some amazing sensors, don't forget that in many cases, especially when making vertical shots of people, the format is predominantly too tall, causing one to crop those wonderful sensors more than one might like to do.

It was ever thus, which is why the workhorse of most studios was a double act of Nikon and Hasselblad.

That little extra mileage that 6x6 gave one was enough for most shoots, and the abilty to crop mostly useless white paper space at the sides was very useful in my work, as for that of my competitors. That's why although 6x7 became increasingly popular it did not kill off 6x6: 6x7 took us right back to the cropping game in many cases.

If anyone doubts the cropping required with 135 format verticals, just frame a Vogue cover or page in your camera and admire the wastage for yourself.

Horses for courses is not about to go away: the greater the sensor quality, the more you will want to employ that complete sensor just to take advantahe of that quality.

Rob

eronald

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Re: Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2019, 06:35:54 pm »

I wonder if being older makes one more appreciative of what exists?


Horses for courses is not about to go away: the greater the sensor quality, the more you will want to employ that complete sensor just to take advantahe of that quality.

Rob

I fear being older just makes us sooner dead, and presently less relevant. 

Also, I don't think that many people really need 100 MP sensors while not being able to afford to crop a bit. Methinks this debate doesn't really deserve that much debate.

Edmund
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