Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Eric Brody on February 06, 2019, 11:14:22 am
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I just read on Lloyd Chambers' blog that the Hasselblad X1D-50c is discontinued. I then checked the B&H website and it's listed there as discontinued! https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1260272-REG/hasselblad_h_3013901_x1d_50c_medium_format_mirrorless.html
Clearly the question is whether there's a 100MP version in the pipeline, as has been rumored for some time, but this is pretty interesting.
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There's a whole thread about the X1D version 2 camera over at get dpi.... most are speculating that it will just be a firmware type upgrade and not a 100MG sensor, but who knows.
Fuji, please make a tilt shift lens.
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There's a whole thread about the X1D version 2 camera over at get dpi.... most are speculating that it will just be a firmware type upgrade and not a 100MG sensor, but who knows.
Fuji, please make a tilt shift lens.
Hi rastas,
your "Fuji, please make a tilt shift lens" reminds me of Cato the elder who finished every speech with the sentence "Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed".
I am on your side concerning this ;)
Marc
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There's a whole thread about the X1D version 2 camera over at get dpi.... most are speculating that it will just be a firmware type upgrade and not a 100MG sensor, but who knows.
Fuji, please make a tilt shift lens.
Hello Rastas, would this be an option with the Fuji? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7XJkNkyohU
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Hello Rastas, would this be an option with the Fuji? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7XJkNkyohU
This article on dpreview will not be helpful to the Fuji 50 or Hassy 50
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-gfx-50r-first-impressions-review/4?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source
Apparently the disparity in image quality between a modern Nikon and a Fuji with a 6 year old crop-MF sensor is not immediately visible. Which is not unexpected, when you think about it. The Phase 150 probably is about the level of what we can expect to see in 35mm cameras in 6 or 7 years :)
Edmund
Edmund
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Ghaag: I know all about that solution, thanks, but its a band-aide solution and isn't perfect. Need a native tilt shift lens for gfx.
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This article on dpreview will not be helpful to the Fuji 50 or Hassy 50
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-gfx-50r-first-impressions-review/4?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source
Apparently the disparity in image quality between a modern Nikon and a Fuji with a 6 year old crop-MF sensor is not immediately visible. Which is not unexpected, when you think about it. The Phase 150 probably is about the level of what we can expect to see in 35mm cameras in 6 or 7 years :)
Yes, I have always thought that all the things you loose with small MF are far from compensating the very tiny image quality advantage. Considering how good the f1.8 Z lenses are, especially the 50mm, it doesn't take much to figure out that the pro lenses due to be released in the coming months will switch the advantage in favor of the Z.
Now, the 100mp sensor will of course be superior on the Fuji once it is released, but investing today in the 50mp MF sensor doesn't seem reasonable to say the least.
But... if the Nikon at 45mp is almost as good as the Fuji at 50... we already know that the Nikon at 90mp will be almost as good as the Fuji at 100mp don't we? There is zero reason why the sensor would behave differently. The only question is whether Nikon will come up with a 90mp sensor or not.
In the end most of the appeal of the Fuji is in the "MF" naming. This feeling of owning something that is on top of mere 35mm cameras. ;D The power of marketing never ceases to amaze me.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Fuji, please make a tilt shift lens.
Why don't you make a post about this?
Oh, hang on, you already have done several.
Rumour has it that this post was about the X1D being discontinued.
If anyone has any information on this it would be useful.
It has disappeared off the distributor website in Australia also.
I guess that an announcement is coming.
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Apparently the disparity in image quality between a modern Nikon and a Fuji with a 6 year old crop-MF sensor is not immediately visible.
If there wasn't an image quality difference, the wouldn't be a market for the Fuji GFX and Hassleblad X1D. There appears to be a market for them.
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If there wasn't an image quality difference, the wouldn't be a market for the Fuji GFX and Hassleblad X1D. There appears to be a market for them.
Because we all know that photographers are rational animals making their purchasing decisions based on facts. ;D
Cheers,
Bernard
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Yes, I have always thought that all the things you loose with small MF are far from compensating the very tiny image quality advantage. ...
Now, the 100mp sensor will of course be superior on the Fuji once it is released, but investing today in the 50mp MF sensor doesn't seem reasonable to say the least.
Of course the sensor age gap is a major factor, so let use see how the 100MP 44x33mm sensors perform — with comparisons perhaps now including the multi-shot super-resolution modes of some Pentax, Panasonic L and even Olympus bodies!
As far as sensor size, here is a fun fact: the sensor area ratio from 36x24mm to 44x33mm is about 1.68x, more than the 1.5x from 4/3" to Canon's version of APS-C; a hair less than the 1.7x from 4/3" to the 24x16mm of the Sony-Nikon-Pentax-Fujifilm version of APS-C. So is the 1.5x to 1.7x gap too small to offer an IQ advantage to 44x33mm over 35mm or for APS-C over 4/3", or is it big enough for those larger formats in each case to have worthwhile intrinsic IQ advantages?
P. S. The DPReview argument about lower usable ISO speed on the F850 is rather bogus; they look at the lowest ("normal") exposure index settings of 100 vs 64, ignoring the that these are not (and should not be!) the same as the base-ISO speed: as has been discussed numerous times, different makers simply choose to have different amounts of highlight headroom at their minimum normal ISO speed setting.
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The next generation from Sony and Nikon will use more or less the same technology the new Fuji 100Mp uses. Perhaps a little refind, but nothing much different. It also won’t be even close to 90Mp or 80Mp it will be around 60Mp. Here there will be quite a difference between 60MP and 100Mp from the Fuji. My wild guess is we won’t see FF a both 80Mp for the next 5 years.
I mean people have been saying we would be at 60Mp in FF years ago.... nothing happened.
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Of course the sensor age gap is a major factor, so let use see how the 100MP 44x33mm sensors perform — with comparisons perhaps now including the multi-shot super-resolution modes of some Pentax, Panasonic L and even Olympus bodies!
As far as sensor size, here is a fun fact: the sensor area ratio from 36x24mm to 44x33mm is about 1.68x, more than the 1.5x from 4/3" to Canon's version of APS-C; a hair less than the 1.7x from 4/3" to the 24x16mm of the Sony-Nikon-Pentax-Fujifilm version of APS-C. So is the 1.5x to 1.7x gap too small to offer an IQ advantage to 44x33mm over 35mm or for APS-C over 4/3", or is it big enough for those larger formats in each case to have worthwhile intrinsic IQ advantages?
P. S. The DPReview argument about lower usable ISO speed on the F850 is rather bogus; they look at the lowest ("normal") exposure index settings of 100 vs 64, ignoring the that these are not (and should not be!) the same as the base-ISO speed: as has been discussed numerous times, different makers simply choose to have different amounts of highlight headroom at their minimum normal ISO speed setting.
BJL - do have a look at the dpreview article. In my opinion the two cameras tested cannot have become so similar purely by"accident".
Edmund
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P. S. The DPReview argument about lower usable ISO speed on the F850 is rather bogus; they look at the lowest ("normal") exposure index settings of 100 vs 64, ignoring the that these are not (and should not be!) the same as the base-ISO speed: as has been discussed numerous times, different makers simply choose to have different amounts of highlight headroom at their minimum normal ISO speed setting.
I don't think it is. The D810/D850/Z7 are well documented as having more DR as ISO 64 than other cameras at ISO100.
This isn't simply an exposure index issue related to where the exposure is set within the available DR.
But I do agree that the Fuji 100mp is the camera we'll have to benchmark.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The next generation from Sony and Nikon will use more or less the same technology the new Fuji 100Mp uses. Perhaps a little refind, but nothing much different. It also won’t be even close to 90Mp or 80Mp it will be around 60Mp. Here there will be quite a difference between 60MP and 100Mp from the Fuji. My wild guess is we won’t see FF a both 80Mp for the next 5 years.
I mean people have been saying we would be at 60Mp in FF years ago.... nothing happened.
Sony's roadmap seems to indicate 60mp as the next step. I have personally no information about what Nikon is planning to do.
If I were them I would try to drop another D800, meaning to go 1.5x times the competition in terms of resolution. And that happens to mean 90mp.
Cheers,
Bernard
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My rumormongering feeling is the Sony 100MP chip is now coming out of embargo, and official sample images will be published by March 30. Fuji may be able to start delivery of its new landscape camera in time for the spring/summer season.
Whether Hassy will have a new body out with this chip is anyone's guess. They are really bad at communicating, while Fuji is getting better and better at publishing roadmaps, setting realistic timeframes and meeting delivery dates. On the other hand, Hassy now have a good lens collection out there, and no excessive QC issues, so if they manage to bring out a new hi-rez body it should sell well.
Edmund
Sony's roadmap seems to indicate 60mp as the next step. I have personally no information about what Nikon is planning to do.
If I were them I would try to drop another D800, meaning to go 1.5x times the competition in terms of resolution. And that happens to mean 90mp.
Cheers,
Bernard
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My rumormongering feeling is the Sony 100MP chip is now coming out of embargo, and official sample images will be published by March 30. Fuji may be able to start delivery of its new landscape camera in time for the spring/summer season.
You're off by around a year. Phase One has been shipping aerial cameras with the 1.3x crop 100mp sensor in question since the first half of last year.
The rumor mill really seems to disregard that a sensor is not a camera. Said differently, the availability of one component does not, a camera, make.
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Doug
Thank you for the correction, indicating the sensor for the Fuji GFX-100 has already been in production for some time.
In my rumor-mongering way, I would expect the Fuji GFX-100 camera to be demoed this spring, WITH DELIVERIES BEFORE END JUNE, AT A PRICEPOINT OF $10K.
And by the way, I'm not inventing this stuff, the Fuji guys are saying this in public, while toting around a functioning proto with IBIS. However as you point out the project may be exceptionally hard - even for a company that seems to churn out body variants as fast as a hen lays eggs - and so a delay is always possible.
If people want to see mockups of a possible future modular Fuji MF camera, and a test image getting made with the working proto of the 100, I recommend watching the video of the presentation around the 1 hour mark.
https://fujiaddict.com/2019/02/09/fujifilm-x-summit-at-gpp-photo-week-2019-gfx-modular-concept-x-t3-firmware-update-coming-with-improved-af-new-lenses-film-simulation-and-more/
usherxupeng
Edmund
You're off by around a year. Phase One has been shipping aerial cameras with the 1.3x crop 100mp sensor in question since the first half of last year.
The rumor mill really seems to disregard that a sensor is not a camera. Said differently, the availability of one component does not, a camera, make.
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Whether Hassy will have a new body out with this chip is anyone's guess.
What other chip can they use? Sony is the only manufacturer of MF sensors.
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What other chip can they use? Sony is the only manufacturer of MF sensors.
I don't know. I assume some competition will eventually emerge. I don't think the Red camera sensors are from Sony.
Look how Kodak and Dalsa designed sensors just got superseded by Sony.
My feeling is that Panasonic could now make an MF sensor if they wanted to, and probably will do so for Leica.
Edmund
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What other chip can they use? Sony is the only manufacturer of MF sensors.
The Leica S sensor is larger than 24x36 and isn’t designed or manufactured by Sony.
Cheers,
Bernard
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But the MF market is a small market and electronics need economy of scale to be priced competitively. Also: MF sensors are bigger than what many foundries are capable of. So it is not as if a dozen competitors had interest in making MF sensors at the price people are ready to pay.
Someone posted a link to the Sony sensor website on another forum and it seems that they only offer the 100 mpixels model in the x1.3 MF size, there is no info about availability of a 50 Mpix model:
https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor2/products/index.html
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The Leica S sensor is larger than 24x36 and isn’t designed or manufactured by Sony.
Yes, Leica wanted a 3x2 format which Sony did not offer. Is that chip still in production? How many were made? Is the number of chips manufactured compatible with the price point of the X1D and Fuji MF cameras?
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Yes, Leica wanted a 3x2 format which Sony did not offer. Is that chip still in production? How many were made? Is the number of chips manufactured compatible with the price point of the X1D and Fuji MF cameras?
You know how it works - if you have a sensor in one form factor, you can within limits repurpose the design in another form factor - whether this may make economic sense is a different story. And "crop MF" is now like 35mm a few years ago, a format that is a bit expensive but probably within the ability of a bunch of fabs. It's obvious Fuji will stay with Sony, but I think Panasonic now own Tower Jazz and I think they made the last Leica MF sensor, and Pana have a new set of still/video prosumer products so they're certainly current on sensor tech.
Also, machine vision is turning into a high-volume tech business, so I think more actors are going to flood in, and thus more camera sensors will be a byproduct.
Feel free to fact check!
Edmund
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Even if it’s possible to source sensors from other vendors (like towerjazz), I don’t see any reasons why they wouldn’t use the 100mp IMX461 sensor from Sony.
They already have a R&D relationship with Sony, it should have excellent tech specs, and it’s readily available. Unless the relationship with Sony has soured, or they found some other magic sensor that is technically superior (like global shutter with 30 stops of DR and instanteous ES readout), why would they try to reinvent the wheel? Seems like their resources are better focused on improving the function and usability of the body itself, which is what users seem to want most.
The 50mp sensor seems to be discontinued. Maybe they’re sitting on a pile of them that need to get rid of, but I think it’s time to move onward and upward from the current 5+ year old 50mp sensor (although the image quality is still and will continue to be excellent) to the IMX461 100mp sensor.
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Even if it’s possible to source sensors from other vendors (like towerjazz), I don’t see any reasons why they wouldn’t use the 100mp IMX461 sensor from Sony.
They already have a R&D relationship with Sony, it should have excellent tech specs, and it’s readily available. Unless the relationship with Sony has soured, or they found some other magic sensor that is technically superior (like global shutter with 30 stops of DR and instanteous ES readout), why would they try to reinvent the wheel? Seems like their resources are better focused on improving the function and usability of the body itself, which is what users seem to want most.
The 50mp sensor seems to be discontinued. Maybe they’re sitting on a pile of them that need to get rid of, but I think it’s time to move onward and upward from the current 5+ year old 50mp sensor (although the image quality is still and will continue to be excellent) to the IMX461 100mp sensor.
I think you answer the question yourself - a Panasonic sensor might be superior in some essential way to the Sony one. Or do you think that a good business model for Hassy is reusing the same components everyone else employs, except selling cameras twice as expensively?
We all know that Global shutter carries a price of about 1 bit DR. It might be worth paying.
Global shutter, or fast ES would make sense as they would make any old lens cheaply compatible with the body. Either might also serve to get high DR with multiple exposures, I think that's what the iPhone does. Also a really high readout rate might make electronic stabilisation or superresolution possible, for all I know.
I think it's time someone bypassed the Sony virtual monopoly on sensors; competition keeps everyone honest.
Fuji are making it clear that they will field IBIS by June, plan to bring out a small modular MF model, and tilt-shift lenses and they have made a real effort to price lower; Hassy needs to fid some way to innnovate as well.
Edmund
PS. I think the long shutter delay on the X1D is a real issue for portrait and fashion guys, and they need to find a solution.
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There is some rather magical thinking going on here! Yes, I am sure that in principal, Hasselblad could turn to CMOSIS (sensor supplier of Leica's 45x30mm sensor) for another 44x33mm sensor — which based on the performance of existing CMOSIS sensors would be distinctly inferior to what Sony can offer, and at a higher price due to the reduced volume on that bespoke sensor. Or Hasselblad could seek to differentiate itself from its Fujifilm competition by procuring supplies of the six year old discontinued lower resolution Sony 50MP 44x33mm sensor. But it won't.
The only fantasy I have not seen yet is that the next Hasselblad mirrorless X model will be FULL FRAME! and all the existing X lenses secretly cover the larger 70mm image circle required (which is why they cost so much!?)
P.S. There are many ways that different MF systems distinguish themselves from their competition; jumping from their established, industry-leading sensor supplier is probably not a good option for Hasselblad.
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Regarding my question though, many of us existing X1D simply want a better X1D and we’ll be happy - not a GFX killer. Hasselblad doesn’t need to engage another sensor manufacturer and find a better-than-IMX461 sensor to make that happen. If they just drop in the IMX461 sensor in and add the improvements many have been asking for with the X1D (shorter boot time, AF joystick, live histogram, etc) they will deliver what many of us are looking for, myself included. They don’t need to reinvent the wheel.
Long term, you’re right, maybe using the same components as Fuji and charging a price premium won’t work for them, and pursuing other options may make more sense. It definitely is hard to ignore the GFX price point, and Hasselblad may need to address that long term or sooner. I have no complaints with any Sony sensor I’ve ever used (Nikon D8xx’s, A7R, A7RII, 645z, X1D), but I’d be happy to see some competiton. I’m brand agnostic at the end of the day but think competition is good for all of us end users.
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How can Hasselblad’s next generation X2D with the Sony 100mp cropped MF sensor possibly compete with the Fuji GFX 100S? Actually, very easily. Take a look at the GFX 100S.
https://3.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/62285861/8aa8b50cd77c46d09fbcdfdb389f0356
I have never seen an uglier, more ungainly looking camera. This does not look like it was “designed.” More like cobbled together, with one module after another being glued to the bottom. Does it strike you as a camera you are just dying to pick up and shoot with?
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How can Hasselblad’s next generation X2D with the Sony 100mp cropped MF sensor possibly compete with the Fuji GFX 100S? Actually, very easily. Take a look at the GFX 100S.
https://3.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/62285861/8aa8b50cd77c46d09fbcdfdb389f0356
I have never seen an uglier, more ungainly looking camera. This does not look like it was “designed.” More like cobbled together, with one module after another being glued to the bottom. Does it strike you as a camera you are just dying to pick up and shoot with?
You are quite right, and in fact Fuji has started showing what happens when they take the modules apart and make a modular MF camera.
There is a precedent for ugly ugly ugly, it was called Sinar M.
Edmund
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And it won’t compete at all with the old 50MP sensor, but I’m sure there will be enough people to drop another 8k on a new model with minor upgrades.
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And it won’t compete at all with the old 50MP sensor, but I’m sure there will be enough people to drop another 8k on a new model with minor upgrades.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Translation?
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MPOV is that if you want 100MP in a mirrorless then the Fuji is it for now - regardless of size. Heat, battery and sensor are all factors that influence the body size. Hassy can't possibly make anything smaller. This is it for now.... No matter what I'm in on this ride.... :)
Victor
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MPOV is that if you want 100MP in a mirrorless then the Fuji is it for now - regardless of size.
Notably, the number of currently shipping 100MP mirrorless cameras currently stands at:
Phase One: 1
Fuji: 0
So I assume you mean that "if you want 100mp in a mirrorless with autofocus, then Fuji will be it when the GFX ships."
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Notably, the number of currently shipping 100MP mirrorless cameras currently stands at:
Phase One: 1
Fuji: 0
So I assume you mean that "if you want 100mp in a mirrorless with autofocus, then Fuji will be it when the GFX ships."
Doug what does the Phase One 100MP mirrorless, manual focus camera cost ?
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MPOV is that if you want 100MP in a mirrorless then the Fuji is it for now - regardless of size. Heat, battery and sensor are all factors that influence the body size. Hassy can't possibly make anything smaller. This is it for now.... No matter what I'm in on this ride.... :)
Victor
I do not believe that’s true. The X1D is smaller than the current Fuji GFX bodies. More significantly, the Hasselblad X2D with the 100mp sensor will likely not have IBIS. That seems to be the reason for a considerable increase in the size of the Fuji GFX 100S.
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True perhaps, but than again, for me IBIS is the biggest feature on a MF camera. Mich more interesting than a Resolution hike.
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True perhaps, but than again, for me IBIS is the biggest feature on a MF camera. Mich more interesting than a Resolution hike.
Interesting. To me it is by far a competitive AF over the whole viewfinder.
IBIS is a nice to have one as far as I am concerned.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Fuji have been showing mockups of a small modular mirrorless MF concept at their Dubai meet. So small is possible for 100MP.
I personally like the Canon 1D series form factor of the GFX-100 - when you spend hours moving around shooting people as verticals rather than landscapes, the second shutter button and bottom grip make a very real difference. As does frame rate and AF speed, actually. The large batteries usually move the glass faster.
And although having an assistant change your batteries inspires 120 magazine nostalgia every two hours or so, I know quite a lot of photographers who would appreciate a camera that can run for a day with no issues.
I'm sure that people who want a stylish and fairly compact MF solution in the near term will find that Hasselblad provides it, at the price of some missing functionality like IBIS.
Edmund
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I'm sure that people who want a stylish and fairly compact MF solution in the near term will find that Hasselblad provides it, at the price of some missing functionality like IBIS.
Edmund
I would only use the word "stylish" to describe the next generation Hasselblad if I wanted to imply that those that buy it are buying it as a chic, fashion accessory. I can't imagine that was your intent.
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It has been said, by someone far wiser than me, that a tripod is the sharpest lens you can buy. By that reasoning, IBIS is the next sharpest.
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Absolut right your estimation about the use of a tripod! So I hope that the next H7D (a bit heavier, but with no need for IBIS) will come in future soon. ;)
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So I hope that the next H7D (a bit heavier, but with no need for IBIS) will come in future soon. ;)
I'd say the H series will never see a 7. The system is dead, has been for sometime.
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I'd say the H series will never see a 7. The system is dead, has been for sometime.
I am not sure you are right on this. I don't know why Hasselblad wouldn't release a version of the H6D featuring the 150mp Sony part. Whether they call it H7D or not is anybody's guess, but I would call it H7D if I were them.
It is a low cost development for them and IMHO the H6D body remains superior to the P1 XF and its electronic platform is brand new and already mirrorless friendly.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Perhaps it is for you. For me the H feels still pretty ancient and very uncomfortable in my hands compared to my XF. I would also miss many features the Hasselblad just doesn’t have and probably won’t get.
Besides that I’m not sure if it’s that easy. Even Hasselblad probably would need a new processor and some more speed for the modern Sony chip.
While I’m not happy with Phase Ones launch disaster of the Iq4150, I’m not sure it would be so much easier for Hasselblad, especially they would need to refresh a few lenses.
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I am not sure you are right on this. I don't know why Hasselblad wouldn't release a version of the H6D featuring the 150mp Sony part. Whether they call it H7D or not is anybody's guess, but I would call it H7D if I were them.
It is a low cost development for them and IMHO the H6D body remains superior to the P1 XF and its electronic platform is brand new and already mirrorless friendly.
Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard, I agree, photographers with H workflows will turn to a 150MP H just as Phase users turned to the new IQ4 150. There won't be much buy-in from new users, but at upgrade prices there should be a steady flow of return customers.
A possible future development would be an H-series mirrorless body. If no viewfinder is included -ie for tethered use- it could just be a metal box with a lensmount like the Alpa. I think most of the smarts of the H have already migrated to the back.
Edmund
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Hi rastas,
your "Fuji, please make a tilt shift lens" reminds me of Cato the elder who finished every speech with the sentence "Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed".
I am on your side concerning this ;)
Marc
Marc, you've been reading Slobodan.
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A possible future development would be an H-series mirrorless body.
There already is one. it is called the X1D or whatever comes next.
If you are going to use the H series lenses then you still need the sensor plane to lens distance, which is provided by an empty metal tube called the XV adapter. It works really well tethered or even handheld, at least with short lenses.
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the H system has been dead for a while, the lenses aren't ready for 100 or 150 mix and there is zero reason to go there anyway....
at this point it seems that the choice of camera in a commercial setting comes down to what the digitech wants to work with and there is no reason not to work with C1, so phase won....i think of them as a software company no more than ever, i hope they will keep making cameras but it will get harder and harder to justify the higher and higher prices....
if the brand hasselblad wants to be around in a few years, they should look at what leica is doing, the X1D was a step in the right direction, one of the prettiest cameras ever, no need to stay at the bleeding edge and try to compete with sony,nikon, canon or fuji in terms of tech and definitely not price....i do think they will have to come up with something a little more with their glass....in any leica discussion it always comes down to the glass and certain personal opinions are hard to argue with or about....
i hope there will be X2D, not sure if the target market would not prefer a 50 and a 100 mpix version, a lot of leica shooters like a lower pixel count, and for most people it does make sense...
as for fuji, they clearly won that part of the market, phase letting fuji in was a shrewd move, it helped fuji out but mostly hurt hasselblad....the 50 R/S bodies were clearly a warm up for what is coming, lenses are great and incredibly affordable, the new body might not look as pretty as the X1D but with all that tech (AF, IBIS, 10bit 4:2:2 out!) who cares? it looks like any SLR style body and i am sure i would be able to pick it up and shoot without major issues....definitely smaller and lighter then any phase or H system....
i am still not really sure who this 33x44 market is for though.....all FF systems are crazy in terms of IQ and still beat the larger systems in size, speed, price,...and phase does have the "shut up" top of the line system for those kind of jobs....
i do love the fujis (and have a special place in my heart for the X1D) but the sony (nikon) gets the job done faster and just as good....
the AF tracking just introduced in the 6400 (!) is insane....holding focus at 1.4 like it is glued on....i never (rarely) shoot wider then f4, mostly 5.6 but still....adobe introducing AI....fuji might be able to keep up (they have to because of the smaller cams) but hasselblad can't....
i am not saying hasselblad should go the limited edition route, but a solid improvement to the X1D in terms of overall speed, introduction of some sexier lenses and market to the leica/lifestyle crowd...that should be a winner...price has to be higher at that point (otherwise everybody can afford it, no fun in that)
or just shoot film, that is way hotter right now anyway....
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the H system has been dead for a while, the lenses aren't ready for 100 or 150 mix and there is zero reason to go there anyway....
Sorry, but that simply isn't true.
I have shot the H6D-100c extensively with a variety of H lenses and the only one that isn't up to the task is the 100mm f2.2 near wide open. Stop it down to f5.6 and it is truly excellent.
The 28mm f4, 50mm II, 210mm f4 and 300mm f4.5 have zero issues to deal with 100mp even wide open. The difference in micro detail with my Roddy 90mm HR on Arca is tiny.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I don't know which lenses he uses, but my friend Oliver Klink, who prints 4 feet wide regularly with his own ink mix, travels all over the world with his 6D-100c (and even a set of Profoto - but that's another story). I don't think he is disappointed at the lens performance at all ~_o.
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A possible future development would be an H-series mirrorless body. If no viewfinder is included -ie for tethered use- it could just be a metal box with a lensmount like the Alpa. I think most of the smarts of the H have already migrated to the back.
I take it you mean (a) a body that takes the H system backs, not an integrated camera as with the X system, and (b) supporting lenses and backs in the H series' 54x40mm format rather than just 44x33mm.
Given that "most of the smarts of the H have already migrated to the back", also removing the OVF assembly would leave very little for a mirrorless H body to do; I think there would be little cost penalty and significant gains in bulk (and environmental sealing) by integrating sensor into the body. So all I can envision following Hasselblad's mirrorless X system is an "X max" (naming a la iPhones) with 54x40mm sensor, matching lenses, and adaptors for current H lenses and so on (copying Canon's drop-in filter draw?) Maybe the current X mount is wide enough; I do not know its throat diameter off-hand.
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Sorry, but that simply isn't true.
I have shot the H6D-100c extensively with a variety of H lenses and the only one that isn't up to the task is the 100mm f2.2 near wide open. Stop it down to f5.6 and it is truly excellent.
The 28mm f4, 50mm II, 210mm f4 and 300mm f4.5 have zero issues to deal with 100mp even wide open. The difference in micro detail with my Roddy 90mm HR on Arca is tiny.
Cheers,
Bernard
i apologize, i did not mean to say that all existing lenses cant handle existing cameras, but with the XD line out if just does not seem worth expanding on the H system from this point on....
IMO both the H and the phase systems have been for market that has gotten smaller and smaller, FF mirrorless has been pushing into this market as well, GFX and X1D are taking a lot of the landscape part of that market and phase has C1 which at this point, for high end rental and commercial situations will be the decisive factor....
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i apologize, i did not mean to say that all existing lenses cant handle existing cameras, but with the XD line out if just does not seem worth expanding on the H system from this point on....
IMO both the H and the phase systems have been for market that has gotten smaller and smaller, FF mirrorless has been pushing into this market as well, GFX and X1D are taking a lot of the landscape part of that market and phase has C1 which at this point, for high end rental and commercial situations will be the decisive factor....
I also disagree with your statement that "the H system has been dead for a while" (nobody told that Burtynsky yet).
Note that all mirrorless MF cameras are actually "crop MF" cameras. Phase One and H6D cameras have a sensor that is 1.5x larger than GFX and X1D sensors.
Some people think that sensor size matters.
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Actually there is a hype about mirrorless cameras. Sure they have advantages, if their lenses have no retrofocus designs. You can see that optical advantage if you look to the Leica M/SL lenses, the Fuji X/G lenses and of course the Hasselblad X lenses. They are compact and have excellent optical properties. On the other side the mirrorless cameras need much more energy first for the electronic viewfinder and second for the IBIS. Bigger batteries and IBIS lead to a bigger camera size. Today the electronic viewfinder has advantages, but also some disadvantages. May be in 5 years these cons will disappear.
But now the H camera is still a good camera, may be with the requirement of some smart features the Phase One XF surely has. The H lenses are ready for 100 MP and most also for 150 MP, except the HCD lenses because they did not cover the big sensor format 54x40. The X1D camera is a nice designed camera, but has also disadvantages for example with low resolution in the optical viewfinder and a warm camera body during longer shootings. And because of the lower weight compared to the H camera basically the X camera needs a IBIS - or a tripod for excellent image quality. With more and more resolution up to 100 MP there is no handheld shooting possible if you will achieve best image quality.
So I hope that Hasselblad will bring a new H7D for users who are not willing to sell their H cameras and H lenses for nearly nothing cash to buy a mirrorless camera that is now not fully developed. For me the bigger weight of the H camera is no problem on my Gitzo tripod and also the optical quality of my H system for me is still excellent. The rest of lack in optical quality takes Photoshop. I hope that Hasselblad will not forget their H costumers.
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If the current owner of The Hasselblad company provided not only the financial resources but used its vast networks of experts worldwide (if they did they sure kept it quite) to forge on and break the antiquated Swedish roadmap some of your guys wishes may come true!
The current H6D body is a medium quality build and could use a full remake as its current design doesn’t lend itself to a camera incorporating built-in wanted modern feature upgrades. The back and top screen are sub standard today. The lack of live per channel raw Histogram is not something I want to live without any longer. Im also done with hearing the excuses like your request for xxxx Is not a frequently requested item. I don’t know about you but I’m looking for my next camera to help me not for me to help it. The latest version of Phocus is buggy and slow, stupid slow...even in the studio tethered I was surprised to see they F Ed that up. The current sensor box could easily be moved to many different platforms, the current X1D could be upgraded?, and it goes without saying the Firmware is lacking.
My guess it is either something completely new or a rehashed “crippled offering” with a few new bells and whistles and more dangling golden carrots. Why. I’m not sure the latest sensors are ready for prime time given the issues with Phase and Fuji still needing at least three more months to iron out firmware coding and testing.
Tell me where I’m wrong!
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If the current owner of The Hasselblad company provided not only the financial resources but used its vast networks of experts worldwide (if they did they sure kept it quite) to forge on and break the antiquated Swedish roadmap some of your guys wishes may come true!
The current H6D body is a medium quality build and could use a full remake as its current design doesn’t lend itself to a camera incorporating built-in wanted modern feature upgrades. The back and top screen are sub standard today. The lack of live per channel raw Histogram is not something I want to live without any longer. Im also done with hearing the excuses like your request for xxxx Is not a frequently requested item. I don’t know about you but I’m looking for my next camera to help me not for me to help it. The latest version of Phocus is buggy and slow, stupid slow...even in the studio tethered I was surprised to see they F Ed that up. The current sensor box could easily be moved to many different platforms, the current X1D could be upgraded?, and it goes without saying the Firmware is lacking.
My guess it is either something completely new or a rehashed “crippled offering” with a few new bells and whistles and more dangling golden carrots. Why. I’m not sure the latest sensors are ready for prime time given the issues with Phase and Fuji still needing at least three more months to iron out firmware coding and testing.
Tell me where I’m wrong!
"live per channel raw Histogram" is available only with some Phase One cameras, correct? Everybody else (Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc) are doing just fine without it, though I would love to have it on them as well.
I only occasionally use Phocus, but have never found it "buggy" and "stupid slow". What version are you using?
H6D OVF is unmatched AFAIK, and as a photographic tool (apart from its weight and size) it is excellent and a joy to use.
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If the current owner of The Hasselblad company provided not only the financial resources but used its vast networks of experts worldwide (if they did they sure kept it quite) to forge on and break the antiquated Swedish roadmap some of your guys wishes may come true!
The current H6D body is a medium quality build and could use a full remake as its current design doesn’t lend itself to a camera incorporating built-in wanted modern feature upgrades. The back and top screen are sub standard today. The lack of live per channel raw Histogram is not something I want to live without any longer. Im also done with hearing the excuses like your request for xxxx Is not a frequently requested item. I don’t know about you but I’m looking for my next camera to help me not for me to help it. The latest version of Phocus is buggy and slow, stupid slow...even in the studio tethered I was surprised to see they F Ed that up. The current sensor box could easily be moved to many different platforms, the current X1D could be upgraded?, and it goes without saying the Firmware is lacking.
My guess it is either something completely new or a rehashed “crippled offering” with a few new bells and whistles and more dangling golden carrots. Why. I’m not sure the latest sensors are ready for prime time given the issues with Phase and Fuji still needing at least three more months to iron out firmware coding and testing.
Tell me where I’m wrong!
DJI do have sexy new-gen camera designs, phone-sized devices that you just take out of your pocket and throw up in the air, science-fiction minicams that buzz around and make movies, be it in a room or on a mountaintop. The current models are a bit like Apple II computers , more toy than tool, but one can see what's coming.
In computer terms,Phase, Hassy and Fuji co are just designing a better mainframe. The mainframe or server isn't dead, but it's not anymore at the centre of innovation.
I find it interesting that most of us on the forum have ignored the action cam and now drone revolution. While my local FNAC camera storedoes sell Fuji GFX-50 and Nikon D5, what really takes up shelf space are flying, hovering and even swimming drones, gopro styled action cameras and accessories.
Nobody here really expects the world to hand them a better tripod tomorrow, maybe we should get over the idea that we will get a better medium format camera that soon ;D
Edmund
Edmund
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I wonder if being older makes one more appreciative of what exists?
Whilst 135 format bodies contain some amazing sensors, don't forget that in many cases, especially when making vertical shots of people, the format is predominantly too tall, causing one to crop those wonderful sensors more than one might like to do.
It was ever thus, which is why the workhorse of most studios was a double act of Nikon and Hasselblad.
That little extra mileage that 6x6 gave one was enough for most shoots, and the abilty to crop mostly useless white paper space at the sides was very useful in my work, as for that of my competitors. That's why although 6x7 became increasingly popular it did not kill off 6x6: 6x7 took us right back to the cropping game in many cases.
If anyone doubts the cropping required with 135 format verticals, just frame a Vogue cover or page in your camera and admire the wastage for yourself.
Horses for courses is not about to go away: the greater the sensor quality, the more you will want to employ that complete sensor just to take advantahe of that quality.
Rob
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I wonder if being older makes one more appreciative of what exists?
Horses for courses is not about to go away: the greater the sensor quality, the more you will want to employ that complete sensor just to take advantahe of that quality.
Rob
I fear being older just makes us sooner dead, and presently less relevant.
Also, I don't think that many people really need 100 MP sensors while not being able to afford to crop a bit. Methinks this debate doesn't really deserve that much debate.
Edmund
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maybe we should get over the idea that we will get a better medium format camera that soon ;D
Strangely, I find myself agreeing. (:-)
There seems to be a lot of people who buy a truck because it can lift heavy loads and then complain because it doesn't perform like a motorcycle.
The people who buy medium format buy them as a studio or landscape workhorse with outstanding image quality or other features like fast flash sync. If you need something else buy 35mm.
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I think I agree with both Rob and Bob:
(a) A signifiant part of the " bigger than 36x24mm format" market involves verticals (portraits! newly wed couples!) and thus often less elongated shapes like 4:3, 5:4, maybe 11x8.5 for US letter paper format, and even 1:1. For that, the sensor size comparison is essentially the short edge, 33mm vs 24mm like 44x33 vs 32x24 for 4:3 or 33x33 vs 24x24 for squares. That is almost a doubling of usable sensor area after cropping for the desired shape, and if that translates to roughy doubling the viable print size ("one paper size up"), surely there is a place for it ...
(b) ... but one that is clearly far smaller than for cameras in 36x24mm format (which in turn is far smaller than the market for dedicated cameras in various smaller formats, which in turn is far smaller than for phone-camera formats!) and it seems best to judge it by the special needs that it serves well, not some fictional general-purpose criteria of "what serious photographers want".
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It's hard for me to understand some of this in today's world, because most cameras today are very good.
You can buy a Nikon D850 for about 2,200 pounds in London and it will do about anything you are requested to produce.
We're just finishing the first stage of a project in London, featuring diverse ethnicities in a non gratuitous way, in other words to present everyone with respect.
(This is just a very short test edit and will eventually include motion footage of the subject, motion city scene imagery in the background so this isn't finished, it's just a quick test for client review and a ton of footnotes.
https://vimeo.com/317991659
The project and the cameras I used, most people on this site will probably never use. We shot with a Leica S2, and a RED Epic MX using continuous lighting of Kinoflows, and LEDs. We had on hand other cameras, 4 Canons, one Sony Mirrorless, though stuck with the S2 and RED.
The use was print-full page verticals, large posters, web, both still, multi-media and motion.
10 years ago we shot probably 70% Verticals, 30 to 40% horizontals, now it's changed 180 degrees as the web, or multimedia use is mostly horizontal.
Though this creative brief called for both orientations.
I guess what I don't understand is the race to such high megapixels. I'm not saying some don't need them, but a full page 350 ppi 8.5"x11" magazine cover is only a little under 13mpx and that's a pretty easy crop on the S2 as most Leicas are always 3 - 2 format. I just drop a piece of acetate over the rear lcd with two lines that is the print formats. In fact if I had my way all cameras would have moveable crops in the viewfinder, 1x185, 2x1, 3x2, 4x5, and even though you see crop lines in the camera you get the full captured image in post.
I've said this before and I'm not turning this into a Leica commercial, but I love those cameras, in fact since they're coming out with a new S series called the S3, Ill probably look around for a deal for that camera or the previous S (007), just for higher ISO though I rarely use ultra high ISO.
I know everyone says Leicas are too everything - expensive, difficult, costly glass, slow service, but I don't see it. I think a new Hasselblad 60-400c is about $48,000 the newest body and back from Phase one is about the same if not more.
For my S2 when I bought it years ago, I paid 1/3 of the original list price, bought a fully active convertor to use my full set of Contax glass then added a few Leica Lenses. A lot less than any of the other two brands and I won't say it's the easiest camera in the world to work, most medium format isn't easy and I bought it used from a dealer, that was probably a demo because it came boxed like brand new. In fact I could not see one single mark on the entire camera. It's had one issue as after a few years the sensor glass cracked and Leica fixed it for free.
Anyway I respect what anyone uses if they get the results and enjoy it, but I love the fact that Leica shoots a DNG file and will process in about any software suite. I'd give anything if all makers adopted this, but I guess that will never happen.
Maybe I believe in the process of if it ain't broke don't fix it, but that's me.
I told this story before, but I was in the Leica store in LA last year and they asked me what Leicas I had and said an M8 and an S2 and of course they want to sell me new cameras. That's fine, but I told them I really love the M8 and they said well, your in good company because the academy award winning DP Roger Deakins was in the store a few minutes earlier having his M8 cleaned. I asked if they sold him a newer M series and they said, uh no he loves his M8 and I would imagine Mr. Deakins could buy any camera he wanted.
In fact I don't see a lot of people selling their Leicas, even if they step up to newer models.
But once again, that's just . . .
IMO
BC
I guess that's why I think there would be mileage in a mini 500C kind of camera, where you had the full height of, say, that Nikon 850 but also the same in full, square width.
Then, come rain, hail, snow, verticals or horizontals, you wouldn't need to move that camera at all. It was one of the best features of that series of the 'blad family. The Durst did all the post!
;-)
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sirmi
I'm using version 3.4.2 take a 100mb file and view it at 100% then move the recovery slider to say 25 from 0 COUNT TO 4 or 5 and THEN you will see the result...this is not usable. Take the clarity slider do the same move it up wait 3-4 sec then move in back wait 3-4 sec then tell me if you can work that way.
It kinda like dial up verse broadband.
cheers
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sirmi
I'm using version 3.4.2 take a 100mb file and view it at 100% then move the recovery slider to say 25 from 0 COUNT TO 4 or 5 and THEN you will see the result...this is not usable. Take the clarity slider do the same move it up wait 3-4 sec then move in back wait 3-4 sec then tell me if you can work that way.
It kinda like dial up verse broadband.
cheers
Are you unhappy about the time it takes to complete the operation? When changing the clarity or recovery I see an instant update of my changes in Phocus (100% view). Once I release the slider, it takes about 2 seconds for Phocus to do an 'update', but I can continue to work. The 'update' is not blocking. Maybe Hasselblad should just remove the 'Update' message? I think that is a perfectly fine workflow. I am working on an iMac 2017.
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It's hard for me to understand some of this in today's world, because most cameras today are very good.
You can buy a Nikon D850 for about 2,200 pounds in London and it will do about anything you are requested to produce.
We're just finishing the first stage of a project in London, featuring diverse ethnicities in a non gratuitous way, in other words to present everyone with respect.
(This is just a very short test edit and will eventually include motion footage of the subject, motion city scene imagery in the background so this isn't finished, it's just a quick test for client review and a ton of footnotes.
https://vimeo.com/317991659
The project and the cameras I used, most people on this site will probably never use. We shot with a Leica S2, and a RED Epic MX using continuous lighting of Kinoflows, and LEDs. We had on hand other cameras, 4 Canons, one Sony Mirrorless, though stuck with the S2 and RED.
The use was print-full page verticals, large posters, web, both still, multi-media and motion.
10 years ago we shot probably 70% Verticals, 30 to 40% horizontals, now it's changed 180 degrees as the web, or multimedia use is mostly horizontal.
Though this creative brief called for both orientations.
I guess what I don't understand is the race to such high megapixels. I'm not saying some don't need them, but a full page 350 ppi 8.5"x11" magazine cover is only a little under 13mpx and that's a pretty easy crop on the S2 as most Leicas are always 3 - 2 format. I just drop a piece of acetate over the rear lcd with two lines that is the print formats. In fact if I had my way all cameras would have moveable crops in the viewfinder, 1x185, 2x1, 3x2, 4x5, and even though you see crop lines in the camera you get the full captured image in post.
I've said this before and I'm not turning this into a Leica commercial, but I love those cameras, in fact since they're coming out with a new S series called the S3, Ill probably look around for a deal for that camera or the previous S (007), just for higher ISO though I rarely use ultra high ISO.
I know everyone says Leicas are too everything - expensive, difficult, costly glass, slow service, but I don't see it. I think a new Hasselblad 60-400c is about $48,000 the newest body and back from Phase one is about the same if not more.
For my S2 when I bought it years ago, I paid 1/3 of the original list price, bought a fully active convertor to use my full set of Contax glass then added a few Leica Lenses. A lot less than any of the other two brands and I won't say it's the easiest camera in the world to work, most medium format isn't easy and I bought it used from a dealer, that was probably a demo because it came boxed like brand new. In fact I could not see one single mark on the entire camera. It's had one issue as after a few years the sensor glass cracked and Leica fixed it for free.
Anyway I respect what anyone uses if they get the results and enjoy it, but I love the fact that Leica shoots a DNG file and will process in about any software suite. I'd give anything if all makers adopted this, but I guess that will never happen.
Maybe I believe in the process of if it ain't broke don't fix it, but that's me.
I told this story before, but I was in the Leica store in LA last year and they asked me what Leicas I had and said an M8 and an S2 and of course they want to sell me new cameras. That's fine, but I told them I really love the M8 and they said well, your in good company because the academy award winning DP Roger Deakins was in the store a few minutes earlier having his M8 cleaned. I asked if they sold him a newer M series and they said, uh no he loves his M8 and I would imagine Mr. Deakins could buy any camera he wanted.
In fact I don't see a lot of people selling their Leicas, even if they step up to newer models.
But once again, that's just . . .
IMO
BC
i remember a high end celebrity shooter saying a few years ago that he prefers his canon DSLR for double page spreads and his phase kit for single page verticals.....so much for file size/resolution and this was years ago...i just came across posters printed from my red epic files at a clients shop the other day....i do prefer more resolution, just like i prefer more DR and less noise but since any mid range camera offers most of that these days, i am looking more and more for the camera to just make my job easier and more enjoyable while being reliable.....right now for me the biggest step in that direction is the sony eye AF...
as for the leica S system, people who use it seem to like it, so why not? i think it sits somehow my itself in terms of price and features, the GFX system accepts all glass and is probably the less emotional, cheaper and overall better recommendation but who cares?
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In the end most -not all- photographers find the flexibility and speed of the prosumer systems pays the bills. And there is one constant most of us can't afford to ignore: To use a camera you often need to transport it.
In the same way, consumer point and shoots have always provided better images than phones, but they too have been decimated by the more flexible and lighter competition.
Edmund
i remember a high end celebrity shooter saying a few years ago that he prefers his canon DSLR for double page spreads and his phase kit for single page verticals.....so much for file size/resolution and this was years ago...i just came across posters printed from my red epic files at a clients shop the other day....i do prefer more resolution, just like i prefer more DR and less noise but since any mid range camera offers most of that these days, i am looking more and more for the camera to just make my job easier and more enjoyable while being reliable.....right now for me the biggest step in that direction is the sony eye AF...
as for the leica S system, people who use it seem to like it, so why not? i think it sits somehow my itself in terms of price and features, the GFX system accepts all glass and is probably the less emotional, cheaper and overall better recommendation but who cares?
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In the end most -not all- photographers find the flexibility and speed of the prosumer systems pays the bills. And there is one constant most of us can't afford to ignore: To use a camera you often need to transport it.
In the same way, consumer point and shoots have always provided better images than phones, but they too have been decimated by the more flexible and lighter competition.
Edmund
the latest phones just released....i guess 3 lens is now the new standard, which, combined with the insane computing power we now hold in our hands and carry everywhere, of course opens up the option to combine files from all lenses to produce 40, 60, 80 mpix files.....and none of this is futuristic babble....
i recommend taking a look at the shot on iPhone winners, what struck me is that there are legitimate landscape shots in there....DR and all, great tones, and those are from last years (ancient) tech....
not saying that phones can replace high end cameras yet or that they ever really will but that is not because of the final image file....much more about workflow....the reason why the kids shoot film is because their friend with the latest iPhone might get a better shot BTS then they do with their 2 year old high end kit....
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With the X1D being discontinued Hasselblad has closed the door on price reductions for their 50MP cameras.. So far it appears that Fuji will continue production of their 50MP cameras but there may not be any "fire sale" price reductions.
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With the X1D being discontinued Hasselblad has closed the door on price reductions for their 50MP cameras.. So far it appears that Fuji will continue production of their 50MP cameras but there may not be any "fire sale" price reductions.
Which would seem to indicate that their next camera will be an updated 50MP rather than a 100MP.
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I think I need to write an open letter to Hasselblad. They seem to be incapable of communicating to their customer base, for what ever reasons. I get it, Sony stops making the sensors & you didn't put in a big enough order. Talk about why someone should invest in the XCD mount. Talk about where the roadmap is at, and what to expect in 2019. Announce you're working on the 100mp version and will have something to show in the near future. Anything more than the silence we currently have.
Having this 'discontinued' label on the only camera that uses an entire lens lineup doesn't help anyone. The H line needs a future, if for no other reason to keep PhaseOne creating. But unless Hass has made up with Fujinon I'm not sure what the plan is for lenses.
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I also don’t get it. It would be so helpful to at least now there is a plan and roadmap. Nobody asks Hasselblad, to say it will be available in June... just let us know what is happening....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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With the X1D being discontinued Hasselblad has closed the door on price reductions for their 50MP cameras.. So far it appears that Fuji will continue production of their 50MP cameras but there may not be any "fire sale" price reductions.
Actually Fuji is again advertising 50R bundles here in Europe. We can assume that they were able to guarantee a sufficient supply of the 50MP sensor to make their investment in product development for the "R" worthwhile, but Hassy will soon find itself competing with a $4K body if they continue the 50MP X1D series.
Thing is Fuji can now afford to order large sensor quantities, because they can always bring out a cut-price body to sell them off. A 100R is surely over the horizon around end 2020.
Hassy have a good product with the X1D series, and the lenses are getting traction, but their future strategy looks really murky at this point. I would bet on a $12K X2D-100.
Hassy's real winning product would be a $5K X2D-50 to compete with the Fuji "R".
Edmund
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I also don’t get it. It would be so helpful to at least now there is a plan and roadmap. Nobody asks Hasselblad, to say it will be available in June... just let us know what is happening....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I should be mystified why someone like you would conceivably care about Hasselblad's roadmap. You are totally invested in Phase One and now the Fuji GFX system, and you have already announced you are buying the GFX 100S just as soon as it is released. However, it seems you just want to create FUD. If you ask the people who actually own X1Ds, they are primarily focused on WHEN they can buy the newly released lenses for the X1D system (and a zoom), as Hasselblad is having a hard time meeting the demand for the newly released lenses. I am well aware that the X1D is "discontinued." To me, that's GOOD news. That means that something is coming fairly soon that I am confident will be an improvement over the X1D. I just took delivery of the $5k XCD 135mm lens with the dedicated tele-converter that converts the lens into a 240mm lens. It is a beautifully designed lens "system." It weighs less than one-half of the combination of the Fuji GFX 120mm and 250mm lenses. In the 2 years since Hasselblad released the X1D, they have released 8 new lenses plus a teleconverter for the X1D. For a small, boutique camera company, that's pretty impressive.
BTW, I don't really see Phase One issuing roadmaps. I don't recall any pre-announcement of the IQ4150. They announced it when it was "ready" for sale (albeit with crippled firmware). It seems that the approach of pre-announcing and strategically leaking future product information and issuing roadmaps is pretty much a Fuji thing.
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In a way I agree with you. Hassy's problem is not a roadmap, or a lack of product, or a lack of lenses, they have a fine product and good lenses, it is simply that Fuji is ready and able to drop prices down to the ground to own the market.
This is reminiscent of the 60s when the Japanese camera makers killed the Europeans by rapidly bringing out well engineered products with a few additional features at really low prices, taking the long view that they would then own the market.
Also Fuji have a strong incentive to be present in MF as they don't compete in fullframe .
Edmund
I should be mystified why someone like you would conceivably care about Hasselblad's roadmap. You are totally invested in Phase One and now the Fuji GFX system, and you have already announced you are buying the GFX 100S just as soon as it is released. However, it seems you just want to create FUD. If you ask the people who actually own X1Ds, they are primarily focused on WHEN they can buy the newly released lenses for the X1D system (and a zoom), as Hasselblad is having a hard time meeting the demand for the newly released lenses. I am well aware that the X1D is "discontinued." To me, that's GOOD news. That means that something is coming fairly soon that I am confident will be an improvement over the X1D. I just took delivery of the $5k XCD 135mm lens with the dedicated tele-converter that converts the lens into a 240mm lens. It is a beautifully designed lens "system." It weighs less than one-half of the combination of the Fuji GFX 120mm and 250mm lenses. In the 2 years since Hasselblad released the X1D, they have released 8 new lenses plus a teleconverter for the X1D. For a small, boutique camera company, that's pretty impressive.
BTW, I don't really see Phase One issuing roadmaps. I don't recall any pre-announcement of the IQ4150. They announced it when it was "ready" for sale (albeit with crippled firmware). It seems that the approach of pre-announcing and strategically leaking future product information and issuing roadmaps is pretty much a Fuji thing.
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The biggest mistake Hasselblad could make is to come out with a new X1D Mark II with the same Sony 50mp sensor and try to compete with Fuji on price. Even if they price it at $5k, the XCD lenses are still way more expensive. The way to compete with Fuji is not to compete with Fuji. Go upmarket with an X2D with the new Sony 100mp sensor and design a beautiful camera that is half the size and weight of the GFX 100S and charge $12k for it. That camera would be something very different from what Fuji will be selling, and I believe that’s the market niche that Hasselblad should pursue. It’s really what they tried to do with original X1D. They sold vastly more of them than they ever expected to sell, but imagine how they would have done if their timing and execution were better.
In a way I agree with you. Hassy's problem is not a roadmap, or a lack of product, or a lack of lenses, they have a fine product and good lenses, it is simply that Fuji is ready and able to drop prices down to the ground to own the market.
This is reminiscent of the 60s when the Japanese camera makers killed the Europeans by rapidly bringing out well engineered products with a few additional features at really low prices, taking the long view that they would then own the market.
Also Fuji have a strong incentive to be present in MF as they don't compete in fullframe .
Edmund
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The way to compete with Fuji is not to compete.
It seems to me that's always been their stance and a good explanation for the lack of a road map for future products.
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The biggest mistake Hasselblad could make is to come out with a new X1D Mark II with the same Sony 50mp sensor and try to compete with Fuji on price. Even if they price it at $5k, the XCD lenses are still way more expensive. The way to compete with Fuji is not to compete with Fuji. Go upmarket with an X2D with the new Sony 100mp sensor and design a beautiful camera that is half the size and weight of the GFX 100S and charge $12k for it. That camera would be something very different from what Fuji will be selling, and I believe that’s the market niche that Hasselblad should pursue. It’s really what they tried to do with original X1D. They sold vastly more of them than they ever expected to sell, but imagine how they would have done if their timing and execution were better.
This vision of the European product as relegated to become a prestige style accessory seems deadly. Hassy the successful colleague of Leica and Ferrari hahaha. With a rangefinder and stick-shift, maybe?
History shows us how TTL metering became the killer feature for the SLR, and I wonder whether the same won't happen here with the combination of IBIS and electronic shutter becoming the defining feature of the next generation Medium format camera, a box that can adapt just about any old lens.
Let's not forget that in the end SLR viewing and TTL metering are what did in Leica. Even though most members of this forum will deny it, functionality does count for some users, including those few who are still earn their living clicking the shutter.
Edmund
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I really don’t see your problem. I certainly don’t need to create FUD. Hasselblad is doing that perfectly fine by themself.
I care about products and new developments. Only because I am currently invested in Phase and Fuji does not mean I will be in two years from now. I was heavily invested in Canon, Nikon and Leica, I’m not anymore.
It’s nice you focused on lenses. Great for you. It’s also great you spend 5k on a very nice lens. However, your drawing the comparison with Fuji and here the Hasselblad looses again, for me. The Fuji 120 has IS, which for me is hugely beneficial and the 250 has it as well and combined with the Tele converter it’s has so much more reach.
Your are correct in one thing, for me a X1D-100 wouldn’t change anything as long as there is no Tele for the X line. However, it’s also the other way around.
I also don‘t see why you get Phase one in to the mix? We were talking about Hasselblad communication problem. However, you are correct that Phase one isn’t much better in communication.... which is sad.
I should be mystified why someone like you would conceivably care about Hasselblad's roadmap. You are totally invested in Phase One and now the Fuji GFX system, and you have already announced you are buying the GFX 100S just as soon as it is released. However, it seems you just want to create FUD. If you ask the people who actually own X1Ds, they are primarily focused on WHEN they can buy the newly released lenses for the X1D system (and a zoom), as Hasselblad is having a hard time meeting the demand for the newly released lenses. I am well aware that the X1D is "discontinued." To me, that's GOOD news. That means that something is coming fairly soon that I am confident will be an improvement over the X1D. I just took delivery of the $5k XCD 135mm lens with the dedicated tele-converter that converts the lens into a 240mm lens. It is a beautifully designed lens "system." It weighs less than one-half of the combination of the Fuji GFX 120mm and 250mm lenses. In the 2 years since Hasselblad released the X1D, they have released 8 new lenses plus a teleconverter for the X1D. For a small, boutique camera company, that's pretty impressive.
BTW, I don't really see Phase One issuing roadmaps. I don't recall any pre-announcement of the IQ4150. They announced it when it was "ready" for sale (albeit with crippled firmware). It seems that the approach of pre-announcing and strategically leaking future product information and issuing roadmaps is pretty much a Fuji thing.
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I agree completely. You certainly don’t “need” to create FUD, so why spend so much time doing it?
It’s a big world out there, and not all photographers have the same needs and not all companies need to operate the same way. The most valuable company in the world is Apple. Do you see Apple running around pre-announcing its future products and leaking information to a “house” rumor site? To the contrary, it’s obsessed with secrecy about its plans. Same for Phase One, which is why I brought it up.
I really don’t see your problem. I certainly don’t need to create FUD. Hasselblad is doing that perfectly fine by themself.
I care about products and new developments. Only because I am currently invested in Phase and Fuji does not mean I will be in two years from now. I was heavily invested in Canon, Nikon and Leica, I’m not anymore.
It’s nice you focused on lenses. Great for you. It’s also great you spend 5k on a very nice lens. However, your drawing the comparison with Fuji and here the Hasselblad looses again, for me. The Fuji 120 has IS, which for me is hugely beneficial and the 250 has it as well and combined with the Tele converter it’s has so much more reach.
Your are correct in one thing, for me a X1D-100 wouldn’t change anything as long as there is no Tele for the X line. However, it’s also the other way around.
I also don‘t see why you get Phase one in to the mix? We were talking about Hasselblad communication problem. However, you are correct that Phase one isn’t much better in communication.... which is sad.
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Who said anything about an X2D being a “prestige style accessory”? That’s your autonomic perception of anything that is well designed and expensive. As I noted elsewhere, it’s a big world out there with lots of photographers with different needs. They all prioritize the “features” of a camera system differently. I happen to think an X2D with the new Sony 100mp sensor that is half the size and weight of the GFX 100S and has a simplified UI would be a pretty compelling, alternative choice for many even though they give up IBIS. Functionality means different things to different people. The size and weight of a camera are surely very significant, functional features.
It’s good for us individually and for the industry as a whole to have choices. Enjoy it. Champion it.
This vision of the European product as relegated to become a prestige style accessory seems deadly. Hassy the successful colleague of Leica and Ferrari hahaha. With a rangefinder and stick-shift, maybe?
History shows us how TTL metering became the killer feature for the SLR, and I wonder whether the same won't happen here with the combination of IBIS and electronic shutter becoming the defining feature of the next generation Medium format camera, a box that can adapt just about any old lens.
Let's not forget that in the end SLR viewing and TTL metering are what did in Leica. Even though most members of this forum will deny it, functionality does count for some users, including those few who are still earn their living clicking the shutter.
Edmund
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Lovely argument, only because others don’t do it Hasselblad shouldn’t?
I actually don’t care what you think or say about it. I still stand by the fact, that’s not great for business what Hasselblad is doing.
I don’t get why your trying to defend to dump move by a company? Or are you really thinking it’s better to say nothing and stay quite?
I really don’t get it. I have nothing against the X1D in general. Beautiful camera, I have used it enough to know what the good and bad things are and I could use one any time of the week if I wanted to use one...
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I think there are debates as to what level of communication to expect from Hasselblad, especially as it comes to future looking statements. Ignoring the X1D, the H line has only received new shutters in the 5+ years I've been an owner. In that time Schneider did a full BR revamp, and those lenses are doing a damn fine job with the higher resolution backs. Even if it's a fine tuning & tighter tolerances with updated coatings, it really would mean something.
As for the X1D, it's really the future profits of the company. They have been able to ship their prime lenses, but where's the 35mm-75mm zoom that was part of the press release in 2017? https://www.hasselblad.com/press/press-releases/hasselblad-expands-the-lens-range-for-the-x1d-50c/ Communicate that the X1D has a follow up successor, that reflects what users wanted.
I know the A6 platform is new, and is in the high revenue industrial space, but come on and figure out how to use those investments in the commercial photographer space.
Hasselblad has always talked about color, and they're missing out on some huge cross promotion between their products and the Hass labeled DJI drone. Get a crew together and shoot some cinematic footage with the H6D-100c and the Mavic 2 Pro and talk about the color and moving between the super shallow DoF you can get with the H6D, to the aerial shots & grade them together. Maybe take it a step further with the M600 & A6D, but really it needs to be in the mid-budget range.
Do a better job of promoting capturing historical images with the tools that capture history.
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<snip>
Your are correct in one thing, for me a X1D-100 wouldn’t change anything as long as there is no Tele for the X line.
<snip>
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XCD 135mm with 1.7x TC is shipping. What Tele focal length are you thinking of?
On all the forums I read (DPR, GetDPI, LuLa) there is one consistent trait. Many current and potential Fuji GF owners are very 'concerned' about Hasselblad ;-).
That said, I would like to hear more updates from Hasselblad, but I am not unhappy since I already own an X1D. Bummer for those who would like to buy one, but cannot find one locally.
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Who said anything about an X2D being a “prestige style accessory”? That’s your autonomic perception of anything that is well designed and expensive. As I noted elsewhere, it’s a big world out there with lots of photographers with different needs. They all prioritize the “features” of a camera system differently. I happen to think an X2D with the new Sony 100mp sensor that is half the size and weight of the GFX 100S and has a simplified UI would be a pretty compelling, alternative choice for many even though they give up IBIS. Functionality means different things to different people. The size and weight of a camera are surely very significant, functional features.
It’s good for us individually and for the industry as a whole to have choices. Enjoy it. Champion it.
Sorry, for me a 100 Mp camera handheld without IBIS sounds like a ... marketing exercise.
The current X1D is at the sweet spot, and the same is true for the 100MP Fuji,with IBIS
Edmund
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Sorry, for me a 100 Mp camera handheld without IBIS sounds like a ... marketing exercise.
The current X1D is at the sweet spot, and the same is true for the 100MP Fuji,with IBIS
Given that you can quite easily hand hold a 150mp camera (https://phaseoneiq4.com/yes-you-can-hand-hold-150-megapixels/) I don't see why you would say that.
The topic of hand holdability always seems to venture into nonsense.
1) You just need a bit more shutter speed for a higher res camera than a lower res camera
2) Item (1) is only true if you intend to compare or examine at the higher resolution
3) IBIS or IS gives a couple stops of leeway* on camera movement, but does not address subject movement
Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need less than a half stop of additional shutter speed to accomplish the same pixel sharpness and no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.
*It can be more on smaller sensors, e.g. Olympus' EM series or Fuji's XH1 (which I own) but the amount that IBIS helps decreases with sensor size since the sensor is larger/heavier and can't be moved with the same agility
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Given that you can quite easily hand hold a 150mp camera (https://phaseoneiq4.com/yes-you-can-hand-hold-150-megapixels/) I don't see why you would say that.
The topic of hand holdability always seems to venture into nonsense.
....
Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need -snip- no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.
Doug, with respect, why would I pay 2x for a 100Mp camera to get the same level of detail?
Also, Fuji is selling lens stab for some lenses, I believe, and I don’t think lens stab will stop working just because a lens is MF. Lens stab works well with teles.
And finally, 2 stops is not bad, you know, especially when your DOF is decreased by the large sensor and you end up believing in fate I mean F8 ;D. Last but not least who wouldn’t love superresolution and in-camera tilt and maybe a few mils shift, all of which might come with IBIS?
I have the highest respect for Doug the artist, and for Doug the reliable dealer, but Doug the salesman should expect talkback :)
Edmund
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Doug, with respect, why would I pay 2x for a 100Mp camera to get the same level of detail?
If you buy a faster car it doesn't always go faster. A Maserati in heavy traffic goes no faster than a dump truck. You buy the Maserati for the times that the road opens up.
If you spend 100% of your time in traffic then the theoretical speed advantage isn't worth much.
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Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need less than a half stop of additional shutter speed to accomplish the same pixel sharpness and no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.
Thats really interesting, is that what your tests have found Doug? If so, I wonder why the need for the Fuji to have IS.. Half a stop is a small tradeoff to be getting a much more compact camera..
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Though I agree that IS (either in-body or in-lens) is a great boon to hand-held photography, I somewhat agree with Doug that the need for stabilization (be it IBIS, ILIS, monopod, tripod ...) for high pixel counts is somewhat exaggerated. As a rule of thumb, "1/f" is about right for 6MP, or as I call it, "3K" (3000x2000) and 100MP is about 12K, four times the linear resolution and so needing about four times the shutter speed. Going from ISO 50 film to ISO 200 on a sensor would be enough!
Also, I can see a use for getting 100MP sometimes (tripod, flash, good light, elevated ISO needed to freeze subject motion anyway, etc.), but "settling for a mere 50MP worth" in some hand-held situations.
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Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need less than a half stop of additional shutter speed to accomplish the same pixel sharpness and no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.
Thats really interesting, is that what your tests have found Doug? If so, I wonder why the need for the Fuji to have IS.. Half a stop is a small tradeoff to be getting a much more compact camera..
The reason to have on sensor IS is the same for 100Mp and 24Mp cameras. Why didn't Fuji put it on its GFX 50S/R cameras? Fuji has traditionally never put IBIS in their cameras, the X-H1 was the first one to have it.
Regarding handholding 100Mp cameras ... I think it makes sense (personal experience). Most of the aerial photography with 100Mp MF cameras is done handheld, AFAIK.
Do you get better, sharper images on a tripod? Yes, you do, regardless of the resolution of the sensor. As Doug mentions, you need to shoot with somewhat faster shutter speed when increasing the sensor resolution from 50Mp to 100Mp.
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As Doug mentions, you need to shoot with somewhat faster shutter speed when increasing the sensor resolution from 50Mp to 100Mp.
Interesting. I never heard people say you needed to shoot at a faster shutter speed when using a finer grain film. Perhaps you do.
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Interesting. I never hears people say you needed to shoot at a faster shutter speed when using a finer grain film. Perhaps you do.
If your goal was to absolutely maximize subject detail you absolutely positively did.
However, as we've found from all our work on modern film scanning systems (https://dtculturalheritage.com/film/) a huge percentage of film was not critically sharp by modern standards. Migrant Mother is a beautiful, iconic, moving, and influential image... it's not sharp by any modern standard.
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Do you get better, sharper images on a tripod? Yes, you do, regardless of the resolution of the sensor.
You get sharper images on a tripod if-and-only-if the hand held shot is not of sufficient shutter speed for the sensor resolution, lens length, and shooting technique. You can take critically sharp images (as sharp as from a tripod) hand held while at a dead sprint provided you're shooting an 8mm lens on an 8mp camera.
IS increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by a couple stops (more for physically smaller sensors). A monopod increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by several stops. A good tripod increases the range by dozens of stops.
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You get sharper images on a tripod if-and-only-if the hand held shot is not of sufficient shutter speed for the sensor resolution, lens length, and shooting technique. You can take critically sharp images (as sharp as from a tripod) hand held while at a dead sprint provided you're shooting an 8mm lens on an 8mp camera.
IS increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by a couple stops (more for physically smaller sensors). A monopod increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by several stops. A good tripod increases the range by dozens of stops.
Doug really, tripods - dozens of stops. Are you selling atomic force microscopes these days? I remember the guys at IBM who developed them had to work at night because of vibrations from people in their building
Edmund
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Doug really, tripods - dozens of stops. Are you selling atomic force microscopes these days? I remember the guys at IBM who developed them had to work at night because of vibrations from people in their building
Perfectly fair point. I probably should have said "many" rather than "dozens". As anyone who has used massively-dense ND filters knows... "stops" can add up quickly! Two dozen stops longer than 1/1000th of a second is ~5 hours.
Once you're talking about such long exposures on the tripod it depends much more on the ambient conditions like what kind of ground the tripod is mounted on (e.g. the center of a large wooden floor vs a concrete parking lot at night) than on the tripod itself.
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Perfectly fair point. I probably should have said "many" rather than "dozens". As anyone who has used massively-dense ND filters knows... "stops" can add up quickly! Two dozen stops longer than 1/1000th of a second is ~5 hours.
Once you're talking about such long exposures on the tripod it depends much more on the ambient conditions like what kind of ground the tripod is mounted on (e.g. the center of a large wooden floor vs a concrete parking lot at night) than on the tripod itself.
I understood what you meant by dozens. Not every statement needs to be taken literally.
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Weighing in here...fwiw...I shoot the 3100 handheld probably half the time, and have found no issue getting stupid sharpness on the H5X down to 1/125, 50-120mm.
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Weighing in here...fwiw...I shoot the 3100 handheld probably half the time, and have found no issue getting stupid sharpness on the H5X down to 1/125, 50-120mm.
You mean the Phase One IQ3 100mp?
I would expect from personal experience and working with a lot of clients that you'd start to see loss of sharpness, or at least reduced consistency in getting perfect sharpness, at 1/125 toward the end of that focal length range, but am not surprised and echo your findings of good performance at that shutter speed at the wider end of that focal length range. It depends a lot on the shooter, as some people have much steadier hands than others. Based on what you write your hands are likely toward the upper range of steadiness among clients I've worked with, but not exceptionally so.
Anyway, sorry to have hijacked the thread. It's just really a pet peeve of mine that so many people say you can't hand hold medium format, when most of our clients shoot hand held at least some of the time and when most of my own personal medium format shooting has been hand held.
You literally just need a little bit more shutter speed. That's it.
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I'm seeing a bunch of X1D-50 cameras for sale on a french forum - some people must be getting word that something else is coming.
Edmund
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There is always something coming.
If you want to buy an X1D then you go to Hasselblad.com and on the home page click Buy Now. Shipped anywhere free.
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Doug yes, the IQ3100. And I should add that I shoot with flash 90% of the time, so that probably helps as well. And also that I often switch the tripod or 120 once I get to 90mm ish.
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I'm seeing a bunch of X1D-50 cameras for sale on a french forum - some people must be getting word that something else is coming.
Something else is always coming. It's the time frame which is uncertain.
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If you buy a faster car it doesn't always go faster. A Maserati in heavy traffic goes no faster than a dump truck. You buy the Maserati for the times that the road opens up.
If you spend 100% of your time in traffic then the theoretical speed advantage isn't worth much.
Great point it’s like saying my camera has the fastest AF, REALLY with what lens! Or this car gets 32mpg ya empty with no seats or extra weight down hill!
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Something else is always coming. It's the time frame which is uncertain.
Fuji is now gearing up to release their 100MP monster paperweight.
Which will doubtless turn out to be a solid workhorse.
Retail is waiting for Hassy to signal its reaction.
Edmund
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Fuji is now gearing up to release their 100MP monster paperweight.
Which will doubtless turn out to be a solid workhorse.
Retail is waiting for Hassy to signal its reaction.
Why do you characterize the Fuji 100MP as a paperweight?
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Why do you characterize the Fuji 100MP as a paperweight?
Ergonomics often overides everything.
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Ergonomics often overides everything.
Paperweights.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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Paperweights.
Steve Hendrix/CI
:).. That Canon 1Dx looks eerily similar to upcoming Fuji 100MP, of course taking a cue from their previous offering of Fuji GFX, probably that backside may make it look more like old timey Med-format where digital backs were attached like Imacon, Phase & Leaf. Just my 2c.
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so still showing Discontinued on B&H and weirdly, very few for sale used (I wonder how many were sold)
I am very disappointed, I have been saving up for an X1D as I felt it offered me exactly what I wanted for purely landscape work on a tripod: high IQ, great aesthetics, portable and solid
Now I'm stuck with not knowing if I am going to lose many thousands of $ by "investing" in a used X1d system (and lenses) for it to be dropped by hasselblad
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Well for landscape an high IQ, portable and solid -you could go with the GFX 50R
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Well for landscape an high IQ, portable and solid -you could go with the GFX 50R
the only reason to go with the X1D over the 50R(orS) would be central shutter, which does not matter for landscape....and general consensus is that the fuji glass is (if anything)overall better then the hasselblad line and much cheaper
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...and general consensus is that the fuji glass is (if anything)overall better then the hasselblad line and much cheaper
I'll give it cheaper. Haven't seen any objective comparisons as to quality.
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the only reason to go with the X1D over the 50R(orS) would be central shutter, which does not matter for landscape....and general consensus is that the fuji glass is (if anything)overall better then the hasselblad line and much cheaper
That's true of the H series lenses. The X series lenses are a significant step up. I do agree that the Fuji lenses are superb and relatively cheap. The X series lenses are also superb optically, and lighter and smaller than the Fuji lenses. You can have bigger, heavier and cheaper. Or, smaller, lighter and more expensive. I am glad we have that choice. My chiropractor helps me with MY choice. [G]
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the only reason to go with the X1D over the 50R(orS) would be central shutter, which does not matter for landscape....and general consensus is that the fuji glass is (if anything)overall better then the hasselblad line and much cheaper
I do not think that there is a consensus that GF glass is better than XCD ones. Source?
Other reason to use X1D is that it is a much more fun camera to use than GFX 50S, especially handheld.
Some photographers do not care about the joy of using a camera, some do, hence the difference of opinions.
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It's a feel in hand type discussion. The X1D drove me crazy, love my H series, and such. For landscapes, I'd almost say go with the Canon TS-E lenses instead of native glass for either system, and the EF-GFX adapters can be had in both AF or MF flavors. I think there is more to the GFX system going forward.
On the same topic, the Hass newsletter today was all about CPO X1D's - https://www.hasselblad.com/certified-pre-owned/
I would definitely base this type of decision on if you have a dealer relationship. That dealer relationship is really important with the Hass system, while the GFX is more like the Can/Nik/Son lines.
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It's a feel in hand type discussion. The X1D drove me crazy, love my H series, and such. For landscapes, I'd almost say go with the Canon TS-E lenses instead of native glass for either system, and the EF-GFX adapters can be had in both AF or MF flavors. I think there is more to the GFX system going forward.
On the same topic, the Hass newsletter today was all about CPO X1D's - https://www.hasselblad.com/certified-pre-owned/
I would definitely base this type of decision on if you have a dealer relationship. That dealer relationship is really important with the Hass system, while the GFX is more like the Can/Nik/Son lines.
Is there going to be a dealer relationship for the X series? Was it just B&H falling out with Hasselblad I wonder?
It is possible that the X camera might can only be bought from hasselblad's website going forward?
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Is there going to be a dealer relationship for the X series? Was it just B&H falling out with Hasselblad I wonder?
Why would there be a falling out?
It is possible that the X camera might can only be bought from hasselblad's website going forward?
That sounds like the kiss of death.
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Is there going to be a dealer relationship for the X series? Was it just B&H falling out with Hasselblad I wonder?
It is possible that the X camera might can only be bought from hasselblad's website going forward?
My local Hasselblad dealer stopped selling Hasselblad after the H6D came out, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Hasselblad started exclusively selling from their web store moving forward.
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Hass has direct rentals off their site - which really is crazy. My local dealer had one of their own X1D's and one of the Hasselblad X1D's that folks would rent online. Looks like the USA online direct rentals was shut down, but it's still live in some European countries, Hong Kong and Austrailia. The idea that Hass would compete with their dealers in the rental market was absolute BS, plus there is the whole first experience with MF that needs to be managed & educational. Between untraining your bad habits from the 35mm world, to uniquie challenges and trade offs in the MF world, there is an investment on both ends.
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There is some very good news for those looking for used X1D Cameras with a six month Hasselblad Factory warranty. For the past week Hasselblad has listed a bunch pf X1D Cameras in their US CPO Inventory. The majority of the X1Ds have been silver in Classes 2-4 and a few black in Classes 1 & 2. The Silvers sold for around $4000 to 5700 and the Blacks were selling for around $5700 to 6300. The sales appear to be handled by the New Jersey Office and the inventory changes daily.
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Toward the end of the month of June, Adorama & B&H, NYC will hold one day demo day of X1D, H6D-50C & H6D-100C cameras. That does mean the demise of X1D is exaggerated.
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Toward the end of the month of June, Adorama & B&H, NYC will hold one day demo day of X1D, H6D-50C & H6D-100C cameras. That does mean the demise of X1D is exaggerated.
That will be some demo of the X1D. There are none left! [G] I would have to assume that this will be a demo of the next generation of the X1D, timed to coincide with the release of the GFX 100S.
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Wonder if they've gotten the 100MP sensor into that little body?
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Hope it’s a new body with much more potential to keep the company afloat for a few more years. PS they are not winning any race right now to the winners circle!