Hasselblad X1D-50c discontinued

[hubell]

Who said anything about an X2D being a “prestige style accessory”? That’s your autonomic perception of anything that is well designed and expensive. As I noted elsewhere, it’s a big world out there with lots of photographers with different needs. They all prioritize the “features” of a camera system differently. I happen to think an X2D with the new Sony 100mp sensor that is half the size and weight of the GFX 100S and has a simplified UI would be a pretty compelling, alternative choice for many even though they give up IBIS. Functionality means different things to different people. The size and weight of a camera are surely very significant, functional features.
It’s good for us individually and for the industry as a whole to have choices. Enjoy it. Champion it.

This vision of the European product as relegated to become a prestige style accessory seems deadly. Hassy the successful colleague of Leica and Ferrari hahaha. With a rangefinder and stick-shift, maybe?

History shows us how TTL metering became the killer feature for the SLR, and I wonder whether the same won't happen here with the combination of IBIS and electronic shutter becoming the defining feature of the next generation Medium format camera, a box that can adapt just about any old lens.

Let's not forget that in the end SLR viewing and TTL metering are what did in Leica. Even though most members of this forum will deny it, functionality does count for some users, including those few who are still earn their living clicking the shutter.

Edmund

[Christopher]

Lovely argument, only because others don’t do it Hasselblad shouldn’t?

I actually don’t care what you think or say about it. I still stand by the fact, that’s not great for business what Hasselblad is doing.

I don’t get why your trying to defend to dump move by a company? Or are you really thinking it’s better to say nothing and stay quite?

I really don’t get it. I have nothing against the X1D in general. Beautiful camera, I have used it enough to know what the good and bad things are and I could use one any time of the week if I wanted to use one...


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[Joe Towner]

I think there are debates as to what level of communication to expect from Hasselblad, especially as it comes to future looking statements.  Ignoring the X1D, the H line has only received new shutters in the 5+ years I've been an owner.  In that time Schneider did a full BR revamp, and those lenses are doing a damn fine job with the higher resolution backs.  Even if it's a fine tuning & tighter tolerances with updated coatings, it really would mean something.

As for the X1D, it's really the future profits of the company.  They have been able to ship their prime lenses, but where's the 35mm-75mm zoom that was part of the press release in 2017? https://www.hasselblad.com/press/press-releases/hasselblad-expands-the-lens-range-for-the-x1d-50c/ Communicate that the X1D has a follow up successor, that reflects what users wanted.

I know the A6 platform is new, and is in the high revenue industrial space, but come on and figure out how to use those investments in the commercial photographer space.

Hasselblad has always talked about color, and they're missing out on some huge cross promotion between their products and the Hass labeled DJI drone.  Get a crew together and shoot some cinematic footage with the H6D-100c and the Mavic 2 Pro and talk about the color and moving between the super shallow DoF you can get with the H6D, to the aerial shots & grade them together.  Maybe take it a step further with the M600 & A6D, but really it needs to be in the mid-budget range.

Do a better job of promoting capturing historical images with the tools that capture history.

[SrMi]

<snip>

Your are correct in one thing, for me a X1D-100 wouldn’t change anything as long as there is no Tele for the X line.

<snip>

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XCD 135mm with 1.7x TC is shipping. What Tele focal length are you thinking of?

On all the forums I read (DPR, GetDPI, LuLa) there is one consistent trait. Many current and potential Fuji GF owners are very 'concerned' about Hasselblad ;-).
That said, I would like to hear more updates from Hasselblad, but I am not unhappy since I already own an X1D. Bummer for those who would like to buy one, but cannot find one locally.

[eronald]

Who said anything about an X2D being a “prestige style accessory”? That’s your autonomic perception of anything that is well designed and expensive. As I noted elsewhere, it’s a big world out there with lots of photographers with different needs. They all prioritize the “features” of a camera system differently. I happen to think an X2D with the new Sony 100mp sensor that is half the size and weight of the GFX 100S and has a simplified UI would be a pretty compelling, alternative choice for many even though they give up IBIS. Functionality means different things to different people. The size and weight of a camera are surely very significant, functional features.
It’s good for us individually and for the industry as a whole to have choices. Enjoy it. Champion it.

Sorry, for me a 100 Mp camera handheld without IBIS sounds like a ... marketing exercise.
The current X1D is at the sweet spot, and the same is true for the 100MP Fuji,with IBIS

Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

Sorry, for me a 100 Mp camera handheld without IBIS sounds like a ... marketing exercise.
The current X1D is at the sweet spot, and the same is true for the 100MP Fuji,with IBIS

Given that you can quite easily hand hold a 150mp camera I don't see why you would say that.

The topic of hand holdability always seems to venture into nonsense.
1) You just need a bit more shutter speed for a higher res camera than a lower res camera
2) Item (1) is only true if you intend to compare or examine at the higher resolution
3) IBIS or IS gives a couple stops of leeway* on camera movement, but does not address subject movement

Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need less than a half stop of additional shutter speed to accomplish the same pixel sharpness and no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.

*It can be more on smaller sensors, e.g. Olympus' EM series or Fuji's XH1 (which I own) but the amount that IBIS helps decreases with sensor size since the sensor is larger/heavier and can't be moved with the same agility

[eronald]

Given that you can quite easily hand hold a 150mp camera I don't see why you would say that.

The topic of hand holdability always seems to venture into nonsense.
....

Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need -snip- no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.

Doug, with respect, why would I pay 2x for a 100Mp camera to get the same level of detail?
Also, Fuji is selling lens stab for some lenses, I believe, and I don’t think lens stab will stop working just because a lens is MF. Lens stab works well with teles.
And finally, 2 stops is not bad, you know, especially when your DOF is decreased by the large sensor and you end up believing in fate I mean F8  .  Last but not least who wouldn’t love superresolution and in-camera tilt and maybe a few mils shift, all of which might come with IBIS?

I have the highest respect for Doug the artist, and for Doug the reliable dealer, but Doug the salesman should expect talkback


Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

Doug, with respect, why would I pay 2x for a 100Mp camera to get the same level of detail?

If you buy a faster car it doesn't always go faster. A Maserati in heavy traffic goes no faster than a dump truck. You buy the Maserati for the times that the road opens up.

If you spend 100% of your time in traffic then the theoretical speed advantage isn't worth much.

[wallpaperviking]

Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need less than a half stop of additional shutter speed to accomplish the same pixel sharpness and no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.



Thats really interesting, is that what your tests have found Doug?  If so, I wonder why the need for the Fuji to have IS..  Half a stop is a small tradeoff to be getting a much more compact camera..

[BJL]

Though I agree that IS (either in-body or in-lens) is a great boon to hand-held photography, I somewhat agree with Doug that the need for stabilization (be it IBIS, ILIS, monopod, tripod ...) for high pixel counts is somewhat exaggerated. As a rule of thumb, "1/f" is about right for 6MP, or as I call it, "3K" (3000x2000) and 100MP is about 12K, four times the linear resolution and so needing about four times the shutter speed. Going from ISO 50 film to ISO 200 on a sensor would be enough!

Also, I can see a use for getting 100MP sometimes (tripod, flash, good light, elevated ISO needed to freeze subject motion anyway, etc.), but "settling for a mere 50MP worth" in some hand-held situations.

[SrMi]

Comparing a 50mp and 100mp camera you need less than a half stop of additional shutter speed to accomplish the same pixel sharpness and no additional speed at all to capture the same absolute level of detail.



Thats really interesting, is that what your tests have found Doug?  If so, I wonder why the need for the Fuji to have IS..  Half a stop is a small tradeoff to be getting a much more compact camera..

The reason to have on sensor IS is the same for 100Mp and 24Mp cameras. Why didn't Fuji put it on its GFX 50S/R cameras? Fuji has traditionally never put IBIS in their cameras, the X-H1 was the first one to have it.

Regarding handholding 100Mp cameras ... I think it makes sense (personal experience). Most of the aerial photography with 100Mp MF cameras is done handheld, AFAIK.

Do you get better, sharper images on a tripod? Yes, you do, regardless of the resolution of the sensor. As Doug mentions, you need to shoot with somewhat faster shutter speed when increasing the sensor resolution from 50Mp to 100Mp.

[faberryman]

As Doug mentions, you need to shoot with somewhat faster shutter speed when increasing the sensor resolution from 50Mp to 100Mp.

Interesting. I never heard people say you needed to shoot at a faster shutter speed when using a finer grain film. Perhaps you do.

[Doug Peterson]

Interesting. I never hears people say you needed to shoot at a faster shutter speed when using a finer grain film. Perhaps you do.

If your goal was to absolutely maximize subject detail you absolutely positively did.

However, as we've found from all our work on modern film scanning systems a huge percentage of film was not critically sharp by modern standards. Migrant Mother is a beautiful, iconic, moving, and influential image... it's not sharp by any modern standard.

[Doug Peterson]

Do you get better, sharper images on a tripod? Yes, you do, regardless of the resolution of the sensor.

You get sharper images on a tripod if-and-only-if the hand held shot is not of sufficient shutter speed for the sensor resolution, lens length, and shooting technique. You can take critically sharp images (as sharp as from a tripod) hand held while at a dead sprint provided you're shooting an 8mm lens on an 8mp camera.

IS increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by a couple stops (more for physically smaller sensors). A monopod increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by several stops. A good tripod increases the range by dozens of stops.

[eronald]

You get sharper images on a tripod if-and-only-if the hand held shot is not of sufficient shutter speed for the sensor resolution, lens length, and shooting technique. You can take critically sharp images (as sharp as from a tripod) hand held while at a dead sprint provided you're shooting an 8mm lens on an 8mp camera.

IS increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by a couple stops (more for physically smaller sensors). A monopod increases the range of sharply hand holdable speeds by several stops. A good tripod increases the range by dozens of stops.

Doug really, tripods - dozens of stops. Are you selling atomic force microscopes these days? I remember the guys at IBM who developed them had to work at night because of vibrations from people in their building

Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

Doug really, tripods - dozens of stops. Are you selling atomic force microscopes these days? I remember the guys at IBM who developed them had to work at night because of vibrations from people in their building

Perfectly fair point. I probably should have said "many" rather than "dozens". As anyone who has used massively-dense ND filters knows... "stops" can add up quickly! Two dozen stops longer than 1/1000th of a second is ~5 hours.

Once you're talking about such long exposures on the tripod it depends much more on the ambient conditions like what kind of ground the tripod is mounted on (e.g. the center of a large wooden floor vs a concrete parking lot at night) than on the tripod itself.

[faberryman]

Perfectly fair point. I probably should have said "many" rather than "dozens". As anyone who has used massively-dense ND filters knows... "stops" can add up quickly! Two dozen stops longer than 1/1000th of a second is ~5 hours.

Once you're talking about such long exposures on the tripod it depends much more on the ambient conditions like what kind of ground the tripod is mounted on (e.g. the center of a large wooden floor vs a concrete parking lot at night) than on the tripod itself.

I understood what you meant by dozens. Not every statement needs to be taken literally.

[douglevy]

Weighing in here...fwiw...I shoot the 3100 handheld probably half the time, and have found no issue getting stupid sharpness on the H5X down to 1/125, 50-120mm.

[Doug Peterson]

Weighing in here...fwiw...I shoot the 3100 handheld probably half the time, and have found no issue getting stupid sharpness on the H5X down to 1/125, 50-120mm.

You mean the Phase One IQ3 100mp?

I would expect from personal experience and working with a lot of clients that you'd start to see loss of sharpness, or at least reduced consistency in getting perfect sharpness, at 1/125 toward the end of that focal length range, but am not surprised and echo your findings of good performance at that shutter speed at the wider end of that focal length range. It depends a lot on the shooter, as some people have much steadier hands than others. Based on what you write your hands are likely toward the upper range of steadiness among clients I've worked with, but not exceptionally so.

Anyway, sorry to have hijacked the thread. It's just really a pet peeve of mine that so many people say you can't hand hold medium format, when most of our clients shoot hand held at least some of the time and when most of my own personal medium format shooting has been hand held.

You literally just need a little bit more shutter speed. That's it.

[eronald]

I'm seeing a bunch of X1D-50 cameras for sale on a french forum - some people must be getting word that something else is coming.

Edmund