After Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )

[faberryman]

I don't think that's it because the second dog didn't bark either: no H6D-150.

Perhaps the companies are on different points in their development cycles, and Hasselblad doesn't have anything to announce at the moment. That would be an obvious explanation. Less fun than idle speculation perhaps.

[KLaban]

I don't think that's it because the second dog didn't bark either: no H6D-150.

Edmund

Maybe both aren't ready?

[eronald]

Maybe both aren't ready?

If you don't have a product to sell you don't sell product.

In the mean time the Phase 150 is selling nicely - surely Doug, you won't contradict me?

Edmund

[KLaban]

If you don't have a product to sell you don't sell product.

In the mean time the Phase 150 is selling nicely - surely Doug, you won't contradict me?

Edmund

Then it's quite obvious they need to announce product that isn't yet developed.

;-)

[faberryman]

In the mean time the Phase 150 is selling nicely - surely Doug, you won't contradict me?

It may be selling nicely, but it is not yet being delivered.

[eronald]

It may be selling nicely, but it is not yet being delivered.

My feeling is Phase and Fuji have contracts with Sony for new-generation chips and Hassy hasn't. It's just a feeling of course.
One reason might be that DJi is a significant vendor and the negotiations with DJI are tied up in some way with those for Hassy.

Edmund

[eronald]

My feeling is Phase and Fuji have contracts with Sony for new-generation chips and Hassy hasn't. It's just a feeling of course.
One reason might be that DJi is a significant vendor and the negotiations with DJI are tied up in some way with those for Hassy.

Edmund

Sony effectively now has the whole MF industry at their mercy.
Like the old days when you could have any brand camera but only one Kodachrome.

Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

Sony effectively now has the whole MF industry at their mercy.
Like the old days when you could have any brand camera but only one Kodachrome.

*shrugs*

Phase One has used sensors from Phillips—>Dalsa—>Teledyne, Kodak—>TruSense, and Sony. Leica uses someone other than Sony (the name of which escapes me at the moment).

Sony, at the moment, makes the best medium format sensors, but as far as I can tell it’s just as likely than not to be someone else at some point in the future.

[BJL]

Sheer speculation: Hasselblad plans to release its 100MP mirrorless at not a lot higher price than current X1D pricing, and only then discount or discontinue the X1D. If so, the “Osborne Rule” says to stay quiet about it. Fujifilm is in a different situation, planning a clear price and feature distinction between its new “entry level” 50 MP model and its future higher spec 100MP model.

Sometimes (even most of the time), different actions by different companies are just dealing with different situations and priorities, not because one is being managed by fools who should consult Internet forums more often!

[eronald]

*shrugs*

Phase One has used sensors from Phillips—>Dalsa—>Teledyne, Kodak—>TruSense, and Sony. Leica uses someone other than Sony (the name of which escapes me at the moment).

Sony, at the moment, makes the best medium format sensors, but as far as I can tell it’s just as likely than not to be someone else at some point in the future.

*shrug* indeed.
I guess Doug has read "The Art of the Deal" about being ready to walk away
I don't think Kodak or even Dalsa will be maing a lot of sensors for Phase in the future

As the Phase - there is only one, right? is built with a Sony chip, there would presumably be a lot of engineering to redo to use a different supplier with different interfaces.

Edmund

[eronald]

Fuji are now adding insult to injury when it come to Hassy by crazy-pricing their GF series lenses.
Details are here.
https://fujiaddict.com/2018/10/07/sunday-savings-adds-gfx50r-bundles-and-new-gf-lens-savings/

Not just bundles but lens rebates - the 110mm F2 ends up at $2K if you deduct the gift card on BH
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?InitialSearch=yes&N=0&Ntt=Fujifilm+GF+110mm+F2&Top+Nav-Search=&sts=ma&typedValue=

I think it's just about game over for Hassy, with this low pricing of the 50R body and C1 bundled for free, and lenses being given away, unless they slash prices they are going under. Though I wonder why Fuji are suddenly going berserk, often 2 companies sharing a market do better than just one because they build an environment.

Edmund

[eronald]

I'll make a forecast: With these crazy downhill prices and C1 thrown in, pro Phase users are going to run for the Fuji trade-in, as the software that makes all the difference is now part of the deal. Hassy users with aging systems may do the same, based on pricing alone.

We shouldn't forget that old backs tether by firewire, and that is an interface that has been on life support for some time. The Macs which have firewire are now all classified as "obsolete", and out of maintenance in most of the world. Part of the upgrade pressure comes from the problems  associated with maintaining obsolete tethering setups.

I look forward to getting an H5D and an 80mm on the used market in a few months

Edmund

[BobShaw]

Sony, at the moment, makes the best medium format sensors, but as far as I can tell it’s just as likely than not to be someone else at some point in the future.

Correct. At various times they have made the best transistor radios, best monitors, best TVs, best video recorders, best music players etc.
They are a consumer electronics company and their desire goes with the market and changes just as quick. At the moment they have an interest in cameras.

[eronald]

Correct. At various times they have made the best transistor radios, best monitors, best TVs, best video recorders, best music players etc.
They are a consumer electronics company and their desire goes with the market and changes just as quick. At the moment they have an interest in cameras.

Sorry - sensors are now basic electronic modules with high added value, employed in cars, phones, security, gadgets etc. Sony Semiconductor wants to own a large part of this component market - the consumer business that makes cameras is a different story.

[Kirk_C]

I think it's just about game over for Hassy...

The market is changing for everyone. You see a lack of traditional response by Hasselblad and think that's there only option. I think you're wrong. With a very prolific and highly profitable company owning them and already introducing the brand name into a burgeoning market none of us can guess what's next.

We shouldn't forget that old backs tether by firewire, and that is an interface that has been on life support for some time.

I have multiple firewire 800 drives running on brand new macs at the studio. You just need to adapt them.

Several successful, full time Pro shooters, who rent my studio are using the same adapter from older backs to modern Macs. A little gaffers tape on every tether connection is standard practice. I like red tape myself. it works well to remind assistants to be heads up when we move the camera or computer during a shoot.

[BobShaw]

The market is changing for everyone. You see a lack of traditional response by Hasselblad and think that's there only option. I think you're wrong. With a very prolific and highly profitable company owning them and already introducing the brand name into a burgeoning market none of us can guess what's next.
I have multiple firewire 800 drives running on brand new macs at the studio. You just need to adapt them.
Several successful, full time Pro shooters, who rent my studio are using the same adapter from older backs to modern Macs. A little gaffers tape on every tether connection is standard practice. I like red tape myself. it works well to remind assistants to be heads up when we move the camera or computer during a shoot.

Also correct. Every Mac from current to at least 10 years old will connect to Firewire either directly, through a Thunderbolt 2 adapter or a Thunderbolt 3 to 2 to Firewire. The only problem is that you are limited to the speed of the slowest part. That is not a problem with old backs but it is with new cameras and old computers. My X1D is limited in speed to the USB2 of my 2010 MBP, but will work USB3 to my 2013 iMac.

Hasselblad sold more X1D in the first month than they expected to sell in entire year. Anyone who has actually held one knows why they are selling. It is lighter and smaller than my Canon. Currently I am using HC and Canon lens with adapters but I will certainly be saving for XCDs. You don't bring out cheaper models if the current one is selling fast.

Sony once had the entire market for music players with the Walkman. That disappeared overnight and they were unable to respond.

[eronald]

If I may hijack this thread again to speak about Medium Format changes at Photokina 2018:

- The Fuji GFX 50R camera announcements completely changed the economics of medium format ownership, as the entry price has fallen to under $5K.
- The Fuji pricing will effectively ripple into the existing used market, especially if the very modern 50R turns out to have superior focus.
- With Fuji on board, Capture One is now in a position where it could become the defacto Raw conversion standard across the industry.

Edmund

[landscapephoto]

- The Fuji GFX 50R camera announcements completely changed the economics of medium format ownership, as the entry price has fallen to under $5K.
- The Fuji pricing will effectively ripple into the existing used market, especially if the very modern 50R turns out to have superior focus.
- With Fuji on board, Capture One is now in a position where it could become the defacto Raw conversion standard across the industry.

I agree to 1 and 2.
I am not so sure about 3. Lightroom probably is still the defacto standard.

[Doug Peterson]

- With Fuji on board, Capture One is now in a position where it could become the defacto Raw conversion standard across the industry.

Depends on what you mean by "defacto Raw conversion standard across the industry".

If you mean "the choice, by far, of the professional and high-end enthusiast community" then this has been the case for a decade. Call any rental house, production company, or digital tech in a major city and ask if they prefer LR or C1 and you'll get near unanimous in favor of C1.

If you mean "leader in market share among all raw convertors" then this is not the case today, and is not the goal of Phase One. Making the mass-market raw convertor is not their mentality nor business model. It's just not in their blood.

[eronald]

Depends on what you mean by "defacto Raw conversion standard across the industry".

If you mean "the choice, by far, of the professional and high-end enthusiast community" then this has been the case for a decade. Call any rental house, production company, or digital tech in a major city and ask if they prefer LR or C1 and you'll get near unanimous in favor of C1.

If you mean "leader in market share among all raw convertors" then this is not the case today, and is not the goal of Phase One. Making the mass-market raw convertor is not their mentality nor business model. It's just not in their blood.

Doug, maybe a company can adapt to its customer requests?

Edmund