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Author Topic: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4  (Read 30345 times)

mbaginy

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2018, 03:25:52 pm »

The camera body reminds me of the good old AE1.  I also notice a proper aperture ring on the depicted lens - a feature I really enjoy with my Fujifilm lenses.  Canon's announcement promises to be interesting!
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BJL

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2018, 05:12:33 pm »

The camera body reminds me of the good old AE1.  I also notice a proper aperture ring on the depicted lens ...

The image resembles the AE1 because it is a retro fan-fiction concept from 2012 called the AE-D, not anything that Canon is likely to offer:
https://petapixel.com/2012/03/22/canon-ae-d-mirrorless-camera-concept/

Do you really expect a camera with no grip, so less battery room, and a reversion to the on-lens aperture ring and top plate ISO dial that Canon left behind in 1987?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2018, 05:48:46 pm »

Is Sept 4th confirmed?

This is going to be one of the most interesting months in the history of camera releases!

I just hope that Canon will have gone all the way.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alex Waugh

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2018, 06:21:39 pm »

My understanding is that its been pushed back to at least October. I'm also really interested in the Panasonic LX100 mkII release August 23rd.

EDIT - need morning coffee
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 06:50:55 pm by Alex Waugh »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2018, 06:43:41 pm »

I assume you mean October?

My guess is that it is at least 6 months away from actual availability. They will play the usual rumor game to keep people waiting. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Alex Waugh

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 06:52:53 pm »

I assume you mean October?

My guess is that it is at least 6 months away from actual availability. They will play the usual rumor game to keep people waiting. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes I think if we were going to get it this year we'd have something more concrete by now. I'm guessing a fairly vague announcement at Photokina that "we're working on it" and then a Nikon-esque teaser campaign a few months later.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2018, 06:16:11 pm »

I still hope that the Sept 4th rumor is true, but this isn’t what Canonrumors is currently saying.

https://www.canonrumors.com

It will be interesting to see whether Canon will be able to match Sony regarding the weight of their new 400mm f2.8 or whether they will only update the coating.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 07:41:34 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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davidgp

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2018, 06:45:21 pm »


It will be interesting to see whether Canon will be able to match Sony regarding the weight of their new 400mm f2.8 or whether they will only update the coating.

Btw the way, the new Sony 400mm f2.8 is 3,000 Euros more expensive in Tokyo than their Canon/Nikon counterparts. Those dreaming of a Sony monopoly may want to think twice... ;)

Bernard... sometimes I don’t understand you... you complain about people insisting in bringing Sony to some threads and now you do it here... out of the blue... talking about a 400mm lens in a thread it just talks about the rumor of a Canon mirrorless camera.

P.D.: who will really want the dominance of a brand in a market... monopolies are not good for the users.

P.D.2: Not sure about japan market... 400 mm does not have that big price difference in Europe or EEUU (markets that I follow more closely in the news). Yes, it is more expensive than Canon or Nikon... in the usual higher price Sony lenses always have over their Canon and Nikon counterparts...


http://dgpfotografia.com

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 07:40:59 pm »

Yes, you are right David, apologies.

I will edit this out.

Cheers,
Bernard

shadowblade

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2018, 04:34:09 pm »

An early September announcement seems more likely now, according to the latest from Mirrorlessrumors, Canonrumors and others.

Rumoured specs:

- 28MP
- Dual-pixel AF
- IBIS
- 10fps
- 4k/30fps and 1080p/60fps
- 1900USD

Clearly, it is in the same price bracket as the A7III. But the specs so far don't tell us very much about the role of the camera and where it will fit in the lineup, although we can probably infer a few things. It could be an entry-level full-frame camera (the launch price is similar to that of the 6D2), but it could also be an ideal general-purpose/event/wedding camera, like the A7III. Perhaps the two concepts have mostly merged and are one and the same now, just as action stills and video cameras are likely to merge at some point in the near future - 24-30MP full-frame sensors are more than enough for weddings/events, while entry-level AF has improved to the point where no system is likely to have problems focusing on static or slow-moving scenes, leaving dual cards/data redundancy as the main requirement for event/wedding photography that isn't necessarily covered by every camera.

28MP could mean anything. Is it an old-style Canon sensor without column-parallel ADC and limited low-ISO DR, or is it a 5D4-type sensor with low-ISO performance in the same ballpark as Exmor-type sensors? One would hope it's the latter, or Canon could be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of initial uptake.

Dual-pixel AF was expected, but is a win all-round. It's theoretically a better system than the separate AF layer currently used by Sony, and now Nikon (in fact, Sony has now patented its own dual-pixel AF system for that reason) - the fact that the A9/A7r3/A7III have better AF than the Canon 6D2 or M-series bodies is not because the underlying AF method is better, but because there's simply more of it, with faster processors and more dedicated AF electronics (similar to how the D5/1DxII focus a lot faster than entry-level Canon/Nikon bodies, even though all are using off-sensor PDAF based on the same underlying technology), and because most existing Canon lenses have moving parts that aren't optimised for mirrorless AF modes (which is why even the FE-mount Sigma Art series lenses don't focus as quickly or smoothly on Sony bodies as the EF and F mount versions do on Canon/Nikon bodies - the mechanics simply aren't optimised for mirrorless, regardless of the compatibility of the electronics). I would hope it also includes eye focus, face detection and other AI-based AF modes, since these are the areas which have the potential to give mirrorless a huge advantage over the 'dumb' SLR AF systems, and which, in the cases of face detection and eye focus, could mean the difference between an entry-level camera and a fantastic event/wedding/human-centric camera that can nail focus with thin-DOF lenses every time.

10fps is neither here nor there - fast enough for action without marking it as an action-oriented body. Looking at cameras from the past year or so, it seems that 9-10fps is the new 'gold standard' for general-purpose bodies - any new body that can't manage it had better have a good reason, such as 16-bit output that's measurably different from standard 14-bit, or a truly huge number of megapixels.

In any case, I'm hoping for dual card slots - almost regardless of the other specs (provided the AF meets a certain minimum standard, which isn't all that strenuous), this, along with the initial lens lineup, may be the main feature which decides if the new camera becomes a top-class event/wedding/portrait/general-purpose body, like the A7III, or just another entry-level full-frame mirrorless body that doesn't give someone with an existing Canon lens collection much reason to buy it over an already-existing SLR body.
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32BT

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2018, 04:59:55 pm »

Any conjectures on batterylife yet?
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2018, 05:11:28 pm »

Any conjectures on batterylife yet?

There's been no mention of it, so nothing to comment on.
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BJL

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - what card type?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2018, 07:09:41 pm »

I wonder whether Canon will stay with CFast, use SD for now and promote this is price-friendly choice for an entry level FF camera, or join the inexorable movement towards CFexpress at the high end. Nikon and PhaseOne are going that way, through offering an XQD slot that will be firmware-upgradable to CFexpress after those cards arrive. I view "CFexpress" as a face-saving name for what could be called "XQD2", the Compact Flash Association having initially backed the wrong horse with SATA (as in CFast) instead of using PCIe (as in XQD and CFexpress.)

I would expect nothing but column-parallel ADC from Canon (or any competitive ILC) going forward. Have any Canon cameras had dual-pixel AF but not column-parallel ADC, and if so, how recently?
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - what card type?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2018, 10:04:56 pm »

I wonder whether Canon will stay with CFast, use SD for now and promote this is price-friendly choice for an entry level FF camera, or join the inexorable movement towards CFexpress at the high end. Nikon and PhaseOne are going that way, through offering an XQD slot that will be firmware-upgradable to CFexpress after those cards arrive. I view "CFexpress" as a face-saving name for what could be called "XQD2", the Compact Flash Association having initially backed the wrong horse with SATA (as in CFast) instead of using PCIe (as in XQD and CFexpress.)

I would expect nothing but column-parallel ADC from Canon (or any competitive ILC) going forward. Have any Canon cameras had dual-pixel AF but not column-parallel ADC, and if so, how recently?

The 6D2 doesn't appear to have column parallel ADC, at leas according to its DR vs ISO charts. But it's also an unashamedly entry-level full-frame body - Canon may have been using its old fab lines to produce the sensor, which wouldn't have been suitable for higher-end products. It remains to be seen which market segment the new mirrorless camera is aimed at, but it would be a huge mistake not to put a top-tier sensor into it, since this is a period in which Canon and Nikon both need to build up market share in a new system, with any users likely to stay with whichever system they buy into for the long haul.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2018, 12:04:50 am »

An early September announcement seems more likely now, according to the latest from Mirrorlessrumors, Canonrumors and others.

Rumoured specs:

- 28MP
- Dual-pixel AF
- IBIS
- 10fps
- 4k/30fps and 1080p/60fps
- 1900USD

Sounds good. Any word on the mount?

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - what card type?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2018, 12:56:38 am »

Canon may have been using its old fab lines to produce the sensor, which wouldn't have been suitable for higher-end products.

Who says Canon *has* new fab lines?
Sony are now the Usain Bolt of sensors -  competing in every race and winning it.

Edmund
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2018, 01:11:14 am »

Sounds good. Any word on the mount?

Cheers,
Bernard

No.

Regardless of whether it's EF, EF-M or a new mount, you'd still want new lenses. EF lenses without linear stepper motors just can't focus as well or as quickly as lenses which have them, regardless of how fast the electronics work. Just look at the difference between Sigma Art FE-mount lenses and native Sony lenses, or between Sigma FE lenses vs the same lenses with EF or F mount on an SLR.
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - what card type?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2018, 01:12:56 am »

Who says Canon *has* new fab lines?
Sony are now the Usain Bolt of sensors -  competing in every race and winning it.

Edmund

They must. Otherwise either all their sensors would have column parallel ADC, or none of them would. 1Dx2 and 5D4 have it, but 6D2 does not.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2018, 02:03:51 am »

No.

Regardless of whether it's EF, EF-M or a new mount, you'd still want new lenses. EF lenses without linear stepper motors just can't focus as well or as quickly as lenses which have them, regardless of how fast the electronics work. Just look at the difference between Sigma Art FE-mount lenses and native Sony lenses, or between Sigma FE lenses vs the same lenses with EF or F mount on an SLR.

Not sure you'd need new lenses. Nikon is showing that you can get good AF performance with existing glass on a mirrorless sensor (according to reports, hard to distinguish from DSLR performance), if the AF is designed not to need contrast AF to reach sufficient accuracy.

So this is really a technological implementation story.

Cheers,
Bernard
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