The world is laughing.

[Alan Klein]

One more time!

You return to the plea of totally removing tariffs. Remove them from Europe or China and Pittsburgh does not soar again. It stays buried forever. Don't you get it? When you insist on paying yourself more than does you neighbour for similar product, you will never compete without tarrifs; you vanish under the burden of your own domestic costs! Then only in a closed loop of internal economy, devoid of export of import, can you keep rolling.

Only by trying to negotiate relative prices that permit mutual survival with your trading partners do you have any trade left at all. That's what trade negotiations between nations are meant to thrash out. And precisely why unilateral walking always and girly hissy-fits are so internationally destructive. If Mr T affected only the States, nobody else would complain at all. Unfortunately, the madness has worldwide ramifications. 

Exactly the same, destructive muscle-bound shit goes down with farming and the supermarkets, and is embodied in the street price of milk, which bleeds the farmer dry but is just a price-cutter lure in the inter-supermarkets' battle for supremacy and market share, with the end-hope of absolute monopoly.

If tariffs are bad for America, and I agree they are long term, then they are bad for Europe and China as well.  For you to argue that yours are justified and superior and ours aren't is tortured logic.  Let's drop tariffs across the board and have real free and fair trade.  Tariffs are government subsidies in effect and are bad for free markets.  They shut down competition and reduce wealth production overall producing winners and losers by government fiat.

[Alan Klein]

Trump went to Scotland purely to play golf. He played two rounds. He owns the hotel therefore the money went into his wallet. This has nothing to do with Obama.

...and Obama went to Hawaii 8 times with his family on vacation to do what?  The fact Obama was a poor President (he isn't any longer worth $60 million) and owned no property, does not mean Trump should live in a tent.  Trump owns property.  He lives in Trump Tower and stays there in his home when he visits NYC .  The Secret Service spends millions every year on security and has to reimburse Trump Tower for that.  Should Trump donate three floors of the Tower to the government for the Secret Service to sleep and set up headquarters?  You're not serious are you?  They also rent and use property in other buildings around the Tower that Trump does not own.  The same when he visits Mar-a-lago in Florida. 


Regarding Scotland, as you said he owns the hotel there and stayed there.  Should he rent your house to stay in.  The Scotland Golf Club is his home away from home.  Bush and Johnson stayed on their Texas ranches that also had heavy Secret Service protection.  Congress authorizes payments for these things.  Each political party always complains when the president of the opposing party spends money on their vacations etc.  There's nothing different about the past except that Trump is rich and stays in his rich residences.  Congress approved it.  Of course all the big shots in COngress get flown around in private jets owned and run by the USAF.  So usually its the COngressmen who don't get that perk who complain about the president's perks. 

[Alan Klein]

By the way, Trump gives the government back his entire presidential salary something Obama didn't do.  I guess he doesn't want to look like a cheapskate.

[stamper]

Two wrongs do not make a right and you always try to shift the blame. This smacks of Trump trying to line his pocket which is his sole reason for being President?

[RSL]

Speaking of presidential perks, I always loved the Marines' secret call-sign for the chopper that hauled Hillary around: "Broomstick One."

[Alan Klein]

Two wrongs do not make a right and you always try to shift the blame. This smacks of Trump trying to line his pocket which is his sole reason for being President?

Trump didn't need the presidency to become rich. He already was rich. Obama on the other hand was poor and is now worth 60 million since being president. The Clinton's have become hundreds of millionaire since becoming president. Al Gore become a hundred millionaire plus since being only a vice president.

There are no two wrongs. Obama spent a lot of our taxpayers money on vacations. He deserved it too. Americans are happy about their presidents and want them to have peace and quiet on their time off and are willing to spend for their security and help. Well, at least if the president is from the party they favor. If he's from the other party, then he shouldn't get a dime

[Rob C]

If tariffs are bad for America, and I agree they are long term, then they are bad for Europe and China as well.  For you to argue that yours are justified and superior and ours aren't is tortured logic.  Let's drop tariffs across the board and have real free and fair trade.  Tariffs are government subsidies in effect and are bad for free markets.  They shut down competition and reduce wealth production overall producing winners and losers by government fiat.

Harry Effin' C, Alan, what ails you? Do you have reading deficiency of some kind?

I just explained to you, in the most simple terms I can find, that when you pay yourself too much (you, the USA) then you will perish regardless of what lower price others charge themselves. You, as manufacturers and employers, know that already, which is the sole reason you hire illegals whenever and wherever you can: to attempt to be able to remain competitive and be able to shift your product. At legal US rates of pay, that appears an impossible task, even within rich America.

I tried to tell you that that's where trade deals come in, where correctional balances such as tariff levels are agreed, and can't be walked away from unilateraly without causing chaos.

Why does that logic escape you, or find only your blind side?

Sorry, man, there is no point in throwing ideas around with you: they bounce right off and spin away into space.

Adios.

[Alan Goldhammer]

...and Obama went to Hawaii 8 times with his family on vacation to do what?  The fact Obama was a poor President (he isn't any longer worth $60 million) and owned no property, does not mean Trump should live in a tent.  Trump owns property.  He lives in Trump Tower and stays there in his home when he visits NYC .  The Secret Service spends millions every year on security and has to reimburse Trump Tower for that.  Should Trump donate three floors of the Tower to the government for the Secret Service to sleep and set up headquarters?  You're not serious are you?  They also rent and use property in other buildings around the Tower that Trump does not own.  The same when he visits Mar-a-lago in Florida. 

It's really a no point worthless discussion about travel expenses.  Judicial Watch which is a conservative group carefully documented the Obama travel expenses and are doing the same thing for Trump.  I think the Obama family went to Hawaii once each winter while Trump flies down to Mar A Lago almost every weekend.  In nice weather he goes up to his golf club in New Jersey.  In terms of number of trips Trump trumps Obama.  We only have monetary data for a little over one year for President Trump so it's not clear whether taxpayers will end up paying more for his travel than for Obama.  In terms of Secret Service protection, it was clearly easier to secure the Texas ranch for Bush-2 than for the Hawaii vacations and Trump visits.  Obama also used Camp David a lot and Trump doesn't use it at all. 

For those interested, a summary of the Judicial Watch accounting for Trump's first year of travels is HERE.

[Alan Klein]

Harry Effin' C, Alan, what ails you? Do you have reading deficiency of some kind?

I just explained to you, in the most simple terms I can find, that when you pay yourself too much (you, the USA) then you will perish regardless of what lower price others charge themselves. You, as manufacturers and employers, know that already, which is the sole reason you hire illegals whenever and wherever you can: to attempt to be able to remain competitive and be able to shift your product. At legal US rates of pay, that appears an impossible task, even within rich America.

I tried to tell you that that's where trade deals come in, where correctional balances such as tariff levels are agreed, and can't be walked away from unilateraly without causing chaos.

Why does that logic escape you, or find only your blind side?

Sorry, man, there is no point in throwing ideas around with you: they bounce right off and spin away into space.

Adios.

Rob.  We are talking about tariffs, not the difference in costs to build a similar product made in different nations.  Regardless of what it costs America to make a car, for example, your 10% tariff makes it just that much harder to sell our cars over there because you have no tariffs on your own cars.  It's harder to compete with your cars in Europe.  However, America only applies 1 1/2% tariff on your cars sent here so you can better compete with our Fords and Chevys made here.  All we want to do is equalize the tariffs, eliminate them would be better, so we can compete on an equal basis in your country as you do in ours.  So until we equalize tariffs, we're going to increase tariffs to meet yours to reduce your ability to export to us and complete with our products built here.  If we still lose out once we get rid of tariffs on both sides because our labor prices are too high, so be it.   At least that would come from fair competition.   This is what Trump is doing.  I guess he took my advice. 

[Alan Klein]

It's really a no point worthless discussion about travel expenses.  Judicial Watch which is a conservative group carefully documented the Obama travel expenses and are doing the same thing for Trump.  I think the Obama family went to Hawaii once each winter while Trump flies down to Mar A Lago almost every weekend.  In nice weather he goes up to his golf club in New Jersey.  In terms of number of trips Trump trumps Obama.  We only have monetary data for a little over one year for President Trump so it's not clear whether taxpayers will end up paying more for his travel than for Obama.  In terms of Secret Service protection, it was clearly easier to secure the Texas ranch for Bush-2 than for the Hawaii vacations and Trump visits.  Obama also used Camp David a lot and Trump doesn't use it at all. 

For those interested, a summary of the Judicial Watch accounting for Trump's first year of travels is HERE.

And your point is what?   That Obama is frugal?  That he lived in a log cabin and chopped wood to heat it while he was president?  That he wanted to save the taxpayer money.  Let's see. He cost the American taxpayers $5 million for a two week vacation in Hawaii times 8 vacations or $40 million.  Chump change, I guess.  But I wouldn't know what it feels like when Obama spent $10,000 a night for a hotel room in Hawaii on vacation with taxpayer's money.  Must be sweet.

This comes up every time there's a new president.  People who voted for the president think he deserves it all.  Voters who didn't think he shouldn't get a dime. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

And your point is what?   That Obama is frugal? 

I said nothing of the sort and don't appreciate you putting words to my post when they did not exist.  I only pointed out the obvious, both Presidents Obama and Trump have spent taxpayer money for travel and security; nothing more and nothing less.  I'll leave it at that and only note that anyone interested in this going forward can follow Judicial Watch for a full accounting of the Trump expenditures.  I could care less.

[Alan Klein]

I said nothing of the sort and don't appreciate you putting words to my post when they did not exist.  I only pointed out the obvious, both Presidents Obama and Trump have spent taxpayer money for travel and security; nothing more and nothing less.  I'll leave it at that and only note that anyone interested in this going forward can follow Judicial Watch for a full accounting of the Trump expenditures.  I could care less.

The thrust of your original post was that Trump was somehow taking advantage of the taxpayers.  I was just pointing out that Obama cost us millions too and was no Saint. 

[Martin Kristiansen]

How many American presidents have been assasinated? More than in any other democratic country 8 imagine. Stop offing the presidents and you can start saving on security I would imagine.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... He owns the hotel therefore the money went into his wallet...

After paying for the local wages, taxes, suppliers, etc., which would take 80-90% of the money spent there.

[BernardLanguillier]

In any case, there's no agreement as far as I know that allows the EU to charge 10% tariffs on American cars sent there while we charge only 2.5% on European cars sent here.

What’s the point of negotiating the reducation of tariffs for US cars that nobody is interested in buying outside the US?

Ok, Tesla is one exception but they can’t produce enough to meet US demand.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

What’s the point of negotiating the reducation of tariffs for US cars that nobody is interested in buying outside the US?

Ok, Tesla is one exception but they can’t produce enough to meet US demand.

Cheers,
Bernard

Then the EU should have no problem eliminating their tariffs.  We'll see what happens when Junker negotiates next week in the US when he meets with Administration trade officials. 

[BernardLanguillier]

Then the EU should have no problem eliminating their tariffs.  We'll see what happens when Junker negotiates next week in the US when he meets with Administration trade officials.

In my view yes.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

Will Junker eliminate tariffs on everything else is well? 
Or do you think Trump will add tariffs on cars anyway just to get Europe to reduce them on other products?

[Alan Klein]

So now we have a currency crisis on top of a tariff dispute.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-20/currency-war-erupts-as-trump-blasts-china-eu-for-manipulating

[BernardLanguillier]

Will Junker eliminate tariffs on everything else is well? 
Or do you think Trump will add tariffs on cars anyway just to get Europe to reduce them on other products?

The concept of negotiation is understood. Now, this is just a theory of yours that will only be backed up by facts the moment Trump lowers those he has been raising.

I understand also the urge for you to try to look at his decisions as if they were aligned with the fundamental Republican values, but again... it is nothing but wishful thinking at the moment.

Cheers,
Bernard