The world is laughing.

[OmerV]

So the President of the Untided States favors the word of an autocratic despot over that of the his own intelligence agencies, which, by the way, have been staffed with Republicans. Well, at least the comedians are happy.

[LesPalenik]

Some may be laughing, but most are distressed.

The world's not laughing, Donald, it's crying

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40128046

[Two23]

They were laughing even harder at Obama, the first president with no balls.  He tells the world that using gas against civilians in Syria would be crossing his "red line."  They do it anyway.  He does nothing.  When they did it while Trump was president, he blew the hell out of them twice.  Putin invades Ukraine and Obama sends blankets, refused to send any military aid--he didn't want to make Putin mad.  Trump has been sending anti-tank missiles.  When Russian backed troops cut a supply line to American forces in Syria, Obama did nothing.  When Russian mercenaries moved an armored force towards an American position this April, Trump OKayed the request for U.S. marine artillery and air force Apache helicopters to attack them.  They blew the hell out of the Russians--killed over 200 and wounded at least 100 more.  I don't like everything Trump says, but OTOH Obama was all talk and everyone knew he had no balls.  Remember that it was during Obama's administration that we learned about Russian interference in elections.  Obama personally asked Putin to "knock it off"  (Obama quote.)  Putin obviously had zero respect for Obama--nobody does.  He's all talk and everyone knows it.  No balls at all.  Kim Jung Il began testing nuclear war heads and Obama told him to stop.  "Rocket Man" responded by firing missiles over Japan.  He did that after Trump was elected and Trump began talking about military retaliation.  "Rocket Man" began sleeping in a bunker 200 feet below ground!  Trump got tensions racheted down below where they were with Obama and there is at least peace talk.  None of this would have been possible with Obama because everyone knows he has no balls, no one respects him. 

Don't forget our other choice was Hillary.  Everyone knows that for a multi-million dollar donation to the "Clinton Library Fund" she'll do whatever you want.  No one respects her either.


Kent in SD

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So the President of the Untided States favors the word of an autocratic despot over that of the his own intelligence agencies...

Rather over his own deep state.

And not to let it go unnoticed, "autocratic despot" is just another fake news. Putin won numerous elections with a sizable majority. And before you tell me they were rigged, take into account that I was there, both in Russia (eight years) and in Serbia (which was electing Milosevic happily a dozen times), and tend to know what I am talking about. People of Russia, the majority, apart from a small number of urban elite, love, no - adore, Putin, like Serbs did with Milosevic.

[Chris Kern]

So the President of the Untided States favors the word of an autocratic despot over that of the his own intelligence agencies, which, by the way, have been staffed with Republicans.

More precisely, they are staffed by career professionals, and currently led by a variety of career professionals (e.g., Gina Haspel, Director of Central Intelligence), military officers (e.g., Paul Nakasone, director of the National Security Agency; Robert Ashley, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency), and at least one high-profile Republican Party politician (Dan Coats, Director of National Intelligence, who serves in a government-wide coordinating role rather than directing a particular agency).

[James Clark]

Rather over his own deep state.

Don't be silly.

And not to let it go unnoticed, "autocratic despot" is just another fake news. Putin won numerous elections with a sizable majority. And before you tell me they were rigged, take into account that I was there, both in Russia (eight years) and in Serbia (which was electing Milosevic happily a dozen times), and tend to know what I am talking about. People of Russia, the majority, apart from a small number of urban elite, love, no - adore, Putin, like Serbs did with Milosevic.

And why do you suppose that is?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

And why do you suppose that is?

And your hypothesis is?

[James Clark]

And your hypothesis is?

Lack of access to a wide range of quality information upon which to base a critically evaluated choice?  An learned culture of respect for/fear of autocratic strongmen?  I mean, we're 60 years out from the Civil Rights Act, and racial issues still impact the fabric of our country.  You don't think that being a single generation out from literal dictatorships informs the psychological makeup of Russia and the Balkans?  Have the Russian people EVER really been free to truly speak their minds without fear of government reprisal?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Lack of access to a wide range of quality information upon which to base a critically evaluated choice?  An learned culture of respect for/fear of autocratic strongmen?  I mean, we're 60 years out from the Civil Rights Act, and racial issues still impact the fabric of our country.  You dot think that being a single generation out of literal dictatorships informs the psychological makeup of Russia and the Balkans?  Have the Russian people EVER really been free to truly speak their minds without fear of government reprisal?

So? Your solution is to let American ambassadors run both countries (like they run some others)?

[kers]

So the USA made new friends - Russia and NKorea... ( Israel even their best friend)
and the EU, China and the FBI are its worst enemies...
- How things can change ! in 18 months!
A country gets the leader its deserves.
Too bad we also have a problem now.
and its all Obama's fault!

[James Clark]

So? Your solution is to let American ambassadors run both countries (like they run some others)?

My solution to what?

I thought we were discussing the absurdity of the American president siding, publicly,  with an autocratic leader with a history of antisocial international behavior against pretty much all of his own intelligence agencies, most of our elected representatives, and a substantial portion of his own handpicked advisors. 

As a matter of policy, it's bizarre.  As an indicator of his competence, it's alarming.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

And guess what? I am fully supporting that policy. The policy that goes against the FBI that displayed a strong, unacceptable, and unconstitutional political bias, which stated that "we can not ALLOW Trump to become president."? As of when is FBI's role to elect a president or prevent its election?

The deep state that chose to sabotage the President literally five minutes before meeting Putin with the indictment? Not days before, not days later, but five minutes before? You tell me that was not deliberate?

Trump went into the election with a promise to improve relations with Russia. Most reasonable people agree that having a better relationship is in the mutual interest and voted for him. He is keeping his promise, against the deep state efforts. People elected him to improve the relations and he is doing it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-russia-indictments-why-now-1531778599

Wall Street Journal: "Why Now?" (bold mine)

... raises questions about the timing of the announcement and the work of the hackers themselves. The news came on the eve of the Trump-Putin summit. Why then?

The president was told of the indictments before he traveled. Yet the plain effect of the announcement was to raise further doubts about the wisdom of the meeting—and perhaps to shape its agenda. Neither is the business of the special counsel or anyone else at the Justice Department. The department has a longstanding policy, not directly applicable here but at least analogous, that candidates should not be charged close to an election, absent urgent need, lest the charges themselves affect the outcome. The general principle would seem to apply: Prosecutors are supposed to consider the impact of their actions on significant events outside the criminal-justice system, and to act with due diffidence.

From a law-enforcement standpoint, there was nothing urgent about these indictments. All 12 defendants are in Russia; none are likely ever to see the inside of a U.S. courtroom.

[James Clark]

And guess what? I am fully supporting that policy. The policy that goes against the FBI that displayed a strong, unacceptable, and unconstitutional political bias, which stated that "we can not ALLOW Trump to become president."? As of when is FBI's role to elect a president or prevent its election?

The deep state that chose to sabotage the President literally five minutes before meeting Putin with the indictment? Not days before, not days later, but five minutes before? You tell me that was not deliberate?

Trump went into the election with a promise to improve relations with Russia. Most reasonable people agree that having a better relationship is in the mutual interest and voted for him. He is keeping his promise, against the deep state efforts. People elected him to improve the relations and he is doing it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-russia-indictments-why-now-1531778599

Wall Street Journal: "Why Now?" (bold mine)

I'll be back to chat about this as soon as I'm able to dig up your complaint about the FBI announcing the (ultimately baseless) reopening of the HRC emails thing right before the election, instead of announcing the concurrent investigation into the Trump campaign.  It shouldn't take me long to find that, right?

[James Clark]

Huh.  For some reason, I can't find it.  I know it must be there, though, because you seem very passionate about the irregularity - nay - the *strong, unacceptable, unconstitutionality* of the FBI taking public action that would impact an important political event.   I'll ping Chris - it could be that the search function is flaky today?  Dunno.

Regardless, sure - most reasonable people think better relations with Russia would be great.  Same with North Korea, China, etc. etc.  I must confess, though, that if the optimal route to better relations is to capitulate and kowtow, I can't fathom why there's so much of a problem with Obama refusing to engage in Syria and Ukraine.  Unless, you know, tribalism and party above country.  But hey, it's a really hard day to be a conservative, an American, and a Trump supporter all in one.  It must require an astounding amount of mental gymnastics.  Makes me dizzy just thinking about it.

(All kidding aside, why not just admit that Trump really hosed it up today, and that siding with Putin against basically every American investigative body is utterly embarrassing and incompetent?)

[Two23]

(All kidding aside, why not just admit that Trump really hosed it up today, and that siding with Putin against basically every American investigative body is utterly embarrassing and incompetent?)

And Obama wasn't abysmally incompetent in his response to Putin when Obama learned of the attempted interference?  He decided to keep it quiet.  He didn't have the balls to confront Putin and threaten any action.  (Not that Putin would have taken him seriously.)   And what about the incompetence of Hillary that began the whole mess in the first place?  She decided to publicly support Putin's political opponent despite the strongest discouragement of every one of her advisers.  This was Putin's motivation to interfere in Hillary's election--revenge.


Kent in SD

[Alan Klein]

I don;t think Trump agreed with our intelligence agencies publicly because he doesn't want to give Mueller's work any credibility.  Many Americans don;t know the difference between the Russians hacking and the administration colluding.   

I hope Trump told Putin in private that he's willing to move forward with bilateral relations.  But if the Russians get involved in our election again in November, all bets are off. The American public won;t allow him to do it as he's been held off from doing it to date.  So now it's up to Putin if he wants to reset the relationship.  Stay out of our elections.

Having better relations with Russia is going to be required against China.  A rich and powerful China will be our future adversary, not poor Russia.  We need the nuclear armed Russians holding their border against China. 

 

[Alan Goldhammer]

I can't wait for a trade agreement with Russia.  I look forward to all those great nesting doll sets at good prices.

[James Clark]

And Obama wasn't abysmally incompetent in his response to Putin when Obama learned of the attempted interference?  He decided to keep it quiet.  He didn't have the balls to confront Putin and threaten any action.

Well, no, he wasn't.  Obama levied some economic sanctions, kicked out some spies, closed a Russian facility here in the States and tried to get a public condemnation which Paul Ryan apparently agreed to, but which McConnell refused to sign on to.  Further, though it's derided as being "weak," he at least had the "balls" to tell Putin to his face to "knock it off."  Which is practically a hydrogen bomb compared to Trump's simpering equivocation today.  Look, no one is ever going to put Obama's actions in Syria or the Ukraine in the annals of great American leadership, but Trump is a G**D*** disaster with an unhealthy respect for autocrats and a dangerous disdain for classical liberal values.

And what about the incompetence of Hillary that began the whole mess in the first place?  She decided to publicly support Putin's political opponent despite the strongest discouragement of every one of her advisers.  This was Putin's motivation to interfere in Hillary's election--revenge.

Like I said - It's hard to keep finding excuses for Trump.  I get it.  But some of y'all are really *invested* for some odd reason. Besides, the question (to everyone except Trump) isn't whether Russia interfered or not, it's whether Trump and/or his people were aware of it and did nothing, or worse, participated.

[David Sutton]

This was Putin's motivation to interfere in Hillary's election--revenge.

Crap. The bandwidth needed to transfer the files was greater than a hacker on the internet could manage. This points to a direct download to a usb or similar.

[David Sutton]

While not particularly a fan of His Golden Greatness, the increasingly hysteria of his opponents is quite something to watch.
Only in some bizarre echo chamber could anyone believe the whole "Russia did it" meme.
Likewise the idea of a Russian threat.
Look at defence spending in 2017 ($US):
U.K. about $55.2 billion
Germany $45.4 billion
United States $685.9 billion ($886 billion budgeted for 2019)
Russian budget for 2018: $42.3 billion, an effective decline.
Come on, show me who should see who as a threat.