The world is laughing.

[James Clark]

A bit of a non-sequitor, but I wanted drop back into this thread and apologize publicly to Slobodan for my over-the-top snark earlier in the thread.  He and I have hugely disparate opinions here, but my comments strayed way too far into disdainful dismissal, and I'm embarrassed about that, and letting my own ego get too involved.

So, I'm sorry, Slobodan.

(I would have sent this via PM directly but I thought it important to let the rest of the regulars here know that I regret my attitude, in my ongoing effort to be the change in discourse that I'd like to see in everyone else   )

Carry on - I'll giving myself a vacation from this section for a bit. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Wow, man, that is certainly appreciated, though not something I would consider quite necessary. Knowing that it came from you, I took it as a bit stronger sarcasm, something I myself am not a stranger to, thus hardly in the position to complain about it. Over the years, I learned enough, I think, about the personalities of the participants in these debates, to take things in context of who said it. There are people who often have quite a different opinion than mine, yet are able to present it without personal attacks, in a logical, factual manner, worthy of debate and consideration, and you are certainly one of them.

And I certainly support your desire for the change in discourse, less animosity and more factual and well argued positions.

Once again, thanks, James.

[Martin Kristiansen]

I haven’t really had much to say on all these topics around Trump and US politics. It always seems to quickly devolve into an ugly emotive debate along American party lines. I’m not American so not my fight. I also think it would be rude and disrespectful to get involved in the personal issues of other people.   

However the topic of this thread is the world is laughing, at Trump. Well as part of the world I feel free to post my opinion on this matter.  I’m not no sure the world is laughing. Perhaps in some European countries it could be laughter, but where I live not so much. The US is of course a major influence across the planet but not so much as in the past. We don’t see much made in America stuff, perhaps some designed in California labels. That’s too bad.  Always admired American engineering.

 To many of us the difference between Hillary and Trump is more a matter of style than policy. To me things don’t change that much whoever is running the US. Still lots of trade interference as in we have masses of low quality chicken being dumped here and we must accept it or we don’t get access to to markets. Our chicken industry has died as a result and frankly what is arriving in our stores from the US is of very low quality. We are little and get no say. If the Europeans are sticking it to the US in terms of trade agreements I just see it as a bully getting a bit of push back. Now the US is having a disagreement with China as well.  China gets a lot of bad press in the West and justified in many cases. However China has helped Africa much more than the first world ever has. Increasingly we look in that direction. Weird to think but it’s easier for me to get a visa for China and to travel there than any western country. More welcoming, friendlier and comfortable in many ways. My family in California and Hawaii keep inviting me to visit, same with my Norwegian family. I find it hard to say why it doesn’t happen. Last year I spent a month in China on holiday. Next out of Africa trip will be to India I think, or Nepal. Europe and the US are not currently on the agenda.

So laughing, not so much. Bewilderment yes.

[Rob C]

I haven’t really had much to say on all these topics around Trump and US politics. It always seems to quickly devolve into an ugly emotive debate along American party lines. I’m not American so not my fight. I also think it would be rude and disrespectful to get involved in the personal issues of other people.   

However the topic of this thread is the world is laughing, at Trump. Well as part of the world I feel free to post my opinion on this matter.  I’m not no sure the world is laughing. Perhaps in some European countries it could be laughter, but where I live not so much. The US is of course a major influence across the planet but not so much as in the past. We don’t see much made in America stuff, perhaps some designed in California labels. That’s too bad.  Always admired American engineering.

 To many of us the difference between Hillary and Trump is more a matter of style than policy. To me things don’t change that much whoever is running the US. Still lots of trade interference as in we have masses of low quality chicken being dumped here and we must accept it or we don’t get access to to markets. Our chicken industry has died as a result and frankly what is arriving in our stores from the US is of very low quality. We are little and get no say. If the Europeans are sticking it to the US in terms of trade agreements I just see it as a bully getting a bit of push back. Now the US is having a disagreement with China as well.  China gets a lot of bad press in the West and justified in many cases. However China has helped Africa much more than the first world ever has. Increasingly we look in that direction. Weird to think but it’s easier for me to get a visa for China and to travel there than any western country. More welcoming, friendlier and comfortable in many ways. My family in California and Hawaii keep inviting me to visit, same with my Norwegian family. I find it hard to say why it doesn’t happen. Last year I spent a month in China on holiday. Next out of Africa trip will be to India I think, or Nepal. Europe and the US are not currently on the agenda.

So laughing, not so much. Bewilderment yes.

Your travel problems: you have to thank political correctness for that, especially within Britain. In the US, even Lethal Weapon decides to characterize one of the villains with an SA accent...

Glasgow changed the perfectly good name of one of its public areas as below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Stock_Exchange

and the same kind of emotional charge is manifest all round the world. Sweeping, political gestures born of foreign emotions carry all sorts of eddies and currents nobody would have suspected. Dundee, Scotland, flew (does it still?) the Palestinian flag... a St Andy I could understand.

It is a mess, getting worse.

[OmerV]

I haven’t really had much to say on all these topics around Trump and US politics. It always seems to quickly devolve into an ugly emotive debate along American party lines. I’m not American so not my fight. I also think it would be rude and disrespectful to get involved in the personal issues of other people.   

However the topic of this thread is the world is laughing, at Trump. Well as part of the world I feel free to post my opinion on this matter.  I’m not no sure the world is laughing. Perhaps in some European countries it could be laughter, but where I live not so much. The US is of course a major influence across the planet but not so much as in the past. We don’t see much made in America stuff, perhaps some designed in California labels. That’s too bad.  Always admired American engineering.

 To many of us the difference between Hillary and Trump is more a matter of style than policy. To me things don’t change that much whoever is running the US. Still lots of trade interference as in we have masses of low quality chicken being dumped here and we must accept it or we don’t get access to to markets. Our chicken industry has died as a result and frankly what is arriving in our stores from the US is of very low quality. We are little and get no say. If the Europeans are sticking it to the US in terms of trade agreements I just see it as a bully getting a bit of push back. Now the US is having a disagreement with China as well.  China gets a lot of bad press in the West and justified in many cases. However China has helped Africa much more than the first world ever has. Increasingly we look in that direction. Weird to think but it’s easier for me to get a visa for China and to travel there than any western country. More welcoming, friendlier and comfortable in many ways. My family in California and Hawaii keep inviting me to visit, same with my Norwegian family. I find it hard to say why it doesn’t happen. Last year I spent a month in China on holiday. Next out of Africa trip will be to India I think, or Nepal. Europe and the US are not currently on the agenda.

So laughing, not so much. Bewilderment yes.

Well, politics can be a tiresome bore, and as the majority of humans have more pressing matters to exert their energy on, undoubtedly the current political circus in the US is more of a momentary diversion. But Trump has been a gift to news organizations and comedians. And the Russians seem to be having a grand time blending the two, as I think the British have done as well, both in their own inimitable way of course.

As for Hillary and Donald, well, the Coffee Corner forum would hardly exist if they were as indistitinct as you suggest. 

[Martin Kristiansen]

Well, politics can be a tiresome bore, and as the majority of humans have more pressing matters to exert their energy on, undoubtedly the current political circus in the US is more of a momentary diversion. But Trump has been a gift to news organizations and comedians. And the Russians seem to be having a grand time blending the two, as I think the British have done as well, both in their own inimitable way of course.

As for Hillary and Donald, well, the Coffee Corner forum would hardly exist if they were as indistitinct as you suggest. 

There are non that differ so violently as those that differ over details. As I said. To me the differences are a matter of style. They are both self important arrogant liars. Neither  of them would piss on you if you were on fire. Yet we take time out to defend them and support them. More fools us.

[Alan Klein]

I never realized America was such a large exporter of chickens.  It doesn't seem like that's something we could compete with others. 

Here's a summary of our trade with South Africa:

Overall exports to South Africa in 2017 was US$5 billion and we imported about US$7.7 billion. Of that America exported poultry meat & prods. (ex. eggs) equalling $26 million, a small amount compared to overall trade. Prior to 1999, the US exported more to SA then it imported from them.  But it's been reversed since then, adding to the reason America is the largest net debtor in the world. 

Here's a summary of imports and exports between the two countries.
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/africa/southern-africa/south-africa

[Martin Kristiansen]

Funny one isn’t it Alan. As with all things it’s a little nuanced and those numbers you quoted  may change as this is a recent development. Apparently in the US you eat different parts of the chicken to what we do. In South Africa the white meat isn’t very popular while in the US the situation is reversed. Your market is huge compared to us so you have tons of chicken parts you can’t sell domestically. We now get that at prices below what it takes to raise a chicken locally. In fairness we are now supposed to be able to sell other stuff to you in compensation. What that is I couldn’t tell you. BMW and Mercedes cars perhaps. We make more of those than we have people that can afford them.

If ever you need goats give me a call. We have loads. Goat MacNugget anyone?

 

[Alan Goldhammer]

 The US is of course a major influence across the planet but not so much as in the past. We don’t see much made in America stuff, perhaps some designed in California labels. That’s too bad.  Always admired American engineering.

Every time we travel to Europe I see lots of Hollister California branded clothes being worn by young Euro men and women.  As one who was raised in California I always get a good laugh over this brand which tries to portray a small agricultural town as something more akin to Shangri-La.  The funniest shirts are the ones that say 'Hollister Surf Club' despite the town being 30 or so miles from the ocean.  The clothing brand is owned by Abercrombie & Fitch.

[Alan Klein]

Funny one isn’t it Alan. As with all things it’s a little nuanced and those numbers you quoted  may change as this is a recent development. Apparently in the US you eat different parts of the chicken to what we do. In South Africa the white meat isn’t very popular while in the US the situation is reversed. Your market is huge compared to us so you have tons of chicken parts you can’t sell domestically. We now get that at prices below what it takes to raise a chicken locally. In fairness we are now supposed to be able to sell other stuff to you in compensation. What that is I couldn’t tell you. BMW and Mercedes cars perhaps. We make more of those than we have people that can afford them.

If ever you need goats give me a call. We have loads. Goat MacNugget anyone?

 

I like Kentucky Fried Chicken and have been known to stop there for a bite when my wife isn't looking.  You can get the dark meat or light meat dinners with mashed potatoes and coleslaw and cornbread.  Since I like the dark meat of a leg and the white meat of a breast, something not on the menu directly, they charge me an extra dollar for the combo.  "Finger lickin' good!"

Here's the list of your country's export to the US: Trump put tariffs on everyone's steel and aluminum including yours.   That's caused problems in your industry.  Hopefully he will make some headway in getting rid of all tariffs.  That would help out everyone.

South Africa was the United States' 36th largest supplier of goods imports in 2016.

U.S. goods imports from South Africa totaled $6.8 billion in 2016, down 7.5% ($550 million) from 2015, and down 9.8% from 2006. 

The top import categories (2-digit HS) in 2016 were: precious metal and stone ( ) ($2.2 billion), vehicles ($1.6 billion), iron and steel ($507 million), machinery ($454 million), and ores, slag, and ash ( ) ($296 million).

U.S. total imports of agricultural products from South Africa totaled $270 million in 2016. Leading categories include: other fresh fruit ($59 million), tree nuts ($53 million), wine and beer ($47 million), processed fruit & vegetables ($24 million), and planting seeds ($14 million).

U.S. imports of services from South Africa were an estimated $1.8 billion in 2016, 12.9% ($208 million) more than 2015, and 34.5% greater than 2006 levels.  Leading services imports from South Africa to the U.S. were in the travel, transportation, and professional and management services sectors.

[Alan Klein]

Martin I just realized we import diamonds from S.A. (The top import categories (2-digit HS) in 2016 were: precious metal and stone ( ) ($2.2 billion)...)

I just bought diamond earrings for my wife for our 25th anniversary.  I wonder if they came from South Africa?

[Martin Kristiansen]

Could have Alan but DeBeers are the diamond supplier to the world. South African company. They have mines all over the world including in South Africa of course. The big diamond producers by country are Namibia, Botswana, Lesotho. Lots coming out of West Africa but the problem there is a lot are conflict stones. Even if sourced from De Beers the diamonds could come from almost anywhere.

[Martin Kristiansen]

I think our best exports to the States has been people like Elon Musk and Charlize Theron.

[stamper]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/18/us-government-paid-trumps-turnberry-hotel-53000

In any other country this would be regarded as fraud? Trumps visit to Scotland was a private visit.

[OmerV]

There are non that differ so violently as those that differ over details. As I said. To me the differences are a matter of style. They are both self important arrogant liars. Neither  of them would piss on you if you were on fire. Yet we take time out to defend them and support them. More fools us.

Yeah, you’re not invested in the consequences of American politics. Okay, except for chicken.

PS  Charlize Theron can stay here as long as she wants, and make all the movies she wants. Yeah.

[Alan Klein]

I think our best exports to the States has been people like Elon Musk and Charlize Theron.

Brains and beauty. Well, she's pretty smart too. 

[Martin Kristiansen]

Just to be clear. When I was so scathing about Trump and H Clinton I was pointing to them as represenatatives of politicians in general. Not just American politicians. We have our own you know.

[Alan Klein]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/18/us-government-paid-trumps-turnberry-hotel-53000

In any other country this would be regarded as fraud? Trumps visit to Scotland was a private visit.

When Obama went on private vacations to Hawaii where he's from originally, the government picked up all the costs (US$5 million in 2015, one of 8 trips he took there) for security, travel, Air Force 1 and supporting aircraft, his wife, his kids, etc.  He stayed at an estate that rents for $5000-$10000 a night depending on the season.  He doesn't own anything in Hawaii.  Additionally, how else do you protect the President?  Should Obama fly Air Hawaii?   In any case, the president is always on duty doing the business of America.  Do you really think Trump ever stops working at it?   Frankly, it would be nice if he did take a break and give everyone else time to breathe.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/obama-familys-2015-hawaii-vacation-cost-taxpayers-4823206-88/


Some of the costs for Obama's trip just for the Secret Service:
"Although the vacation officially lasted from December 18, 2015, to January 3, 2016, the Secret Service rented several Kailua homes for 19 nights, starting from December 16.  The total for the rentals, located near the Marine Corps base at Kaneohe Bay was $245,993.12.  According to bills obtained by Judicial Watch through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), the Secret Service also paid for rooms at the Hawaii Prince Hotel Waikiki and Golf Club.  The Secret Service also reserved rooms at the Moana Surfrider resort on Waikiki Beach, and the Ala Moana Hotel, which cost a total of $40,249.48 and $671,895.99, respectively.[/font][/size]
The Secret Service rented cars from Avis, Alamo, and Hertz – 103 cars for the two-week vacation, totaling $165,893.88 in taxpayer money.[/font][/size]
Reportedly, the Obamas stayed at the Hale Reena Estate, which “rents for anywhere between $5,000 to $10,000 a night, depending on the season.”[/font][/size]

[Rob C]

I like Kentucky Fried Chicken and have been known to stop there for a bite when my wife isn't looking.  You can get the dark meat or light meat dinners with mashed potatoes and coleslaw and cornbread.  Since I like the dark meat of a leg and the white meat of a breast, something not on the menu directly, they charge me an extra dollar for the combo.  "Finger lickin' good!"

Here's the list of your country's export to the US: Trump put tariffs on everyone's steel and aluminum including yours.   That's caused problems in your industry.  Hopefully he will make some headway in getting rid of all tariffs.  That would help out everyone.

South Africa was the United States' 36th largest supplier of goods imports in 2016.

U.S. goods imports from South Africa totaled $6.8 billion in 2016, down 7.5% ($550 million) from 2015, and down 9.8% from 2006. 

The top import categories (2-digit HS) in 2016 were: precious metal and stone ( ) ($2.2 billion), vehicles ($1.6 billion), iron and steel ($507 million), machinery ($454 million), and ores, slag, and ash ( ) ($296 million).

U.S. total imports of agricultural products from South Africa totaled $270 million in 2016. Leading categories include: other fresh fruit ($59 million), tree nuts ($53 million), wine and beer ($47 million), processed fruit & vegetables ($24 million), and planting seeds ($14 million).

U.S. imports of services from South Africa were an estimated $1.8 billion in 2016, 12.9% ($208 million) more than 2015, and 34.5% greater than 2006 levels.  Leading services imports from South Africa to the U.S. were in the travel, transportation, and professional and management services sectors.

One more time!

You return to the plea of totally removing tariffs. Remove them from Europe or China and Pittsburgh does not soar again. It stays buried forever. Don't you get it? When you insist on paying yourself more than does you neighbour for similar product, you will never compete without tarrifs; you vanish under the burden of your own domestic costs! Then only in a closed loop of internal economy, devoid of export of import, can you keep rolling.

Only by trying to negotiate relative prices that permit mutual survival with your trading partners do you have any trade left at all. That's what trade negotiations between nations are meant to thrash out. And precisely why unilateral walking always and girly hissy-fits are so internationally destructive. If Mr T affected only the States, nobody else would complain at all. Unfortunately, the madness has worldwide ramifications. 

Exactly the same, destructive muscle-bound shit goes down with farming and the supermarkets, and is embodied in the street price of milk, which bleeds the farmer dry but is just a price-cutter lure in the inter-supermarkets' battle for supremacy and market share, with the end-hope of absolute monopoly.

[stamper]

When Obama went on private vacations to Hawaii where he's from originally, the government picked up all the costs (US$5 million in 2015, one of 8 trips he took there) for security, travel, Air Force 1 and supporting aircraft, his wife, his kids, etc.  He stayed at an estate that rents for $5000-$10000 a night depending on the season.  He doesn't own anything in Hawaii.  Additionally, how else do you protect the President?  Should Obama fly Air Hawaii?   In any case, the president is always on duty doing the business of America.  Do you really think Trump ever stops working at it?   Frankly, it would be nice if he did take a break and give everyone else time to breathe.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/obama-familys-2015-hawaii-vacation-cost-taxpayers-4823206-88/


Some of the costs for Obama's trip just for the Secret Service:
"Although the vacation officially lasted from December 18, 2015, to January 3, 2016, the Secret Service rented several Kailua homes for 19 nights, starting from December 16.  The total for the rentals, located near the Marine Corps base at Kaneohe Bay was $245,993.12.  According to bills obtained by Judicial Watch through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), the Secret Service also paid for rooms at the Hawaii Prince Hotel Waikiki and Golf Club.  The Secret Service also reserved rooms at the Moana Surfrider resort on Waikiki Beach, and the Ala Moana Hotel, which cost a total of $40,249.48 and $671,895.99, respectively.[/font][/size]
The Secret Service rented cars from Avis, Alamo, and Hertz – 103 cars for the two-week vacation, totaling $165,893.88 in taxpayer money.[/font][/size]
Reportedly, the Obamas stayed at the Hale Reena Estate, which “rents for anywhere between $5,000 to $10,000 a night, depending on the season.”[/font][/size]

Trump went to Scotland purely to play golf. He played two rounds. He owns the hotel therefore the money went into his wallet. This has nothing to do with Obama.