Photo of caged children

[Alan Klein]

No Americans willing to work.?  Minimum wages? - nonsense.    I'm spending $80 for 4 hours of cleaning girl services.  The woman is from East Europe, I believe originally on a green card but that probably has expired.  I don't ask.  She doesn't tell.  That's $80 cash, $20 an hour, paid directly to her.  If she cleans ten houses a week, that's $40,000 a year.  All tax free.   We provide the cleaning supplies and she eats our food for breakfast.  Her daughter use to run the business but went back to Europe.  It's her mother who's staying here for now and working.     There's plenty of Americans who would love to have her job.   

[Alan Goldhammer]

The quintessential claim by the left: Americans won't do certain jobs that illegal aliens will. This has been debunked over and over, but why not use it anyway?

The number of illegals doing these jobs is small.  Most of the jobs are either done by legals or by guest workers here on a visa.  Look at how legal Hispanic population has increased in lots of cities and areas where there are jobs that those already living in the area won't do.  Dodge City KS has a big meat packing industry and Hispanic population in the area has increased markedly.  Schools are now majority Hispanic and the town passed a tax increase to better serve the populace.  there are also towns in Iowa where the same thing is happening.  This is not a quintessential left claim but one based on well documented population surveys.  Don't come wading into an argument hurling invectives that are not correct.

[Alan Goldhammer]

No Americans willing to work.?  Minimum wages? - nonsense.    I'm spending $80 for 4 hours of cleaning girl services.  The woman is from East Europe, I believe originally on a green card but that probably has expired.  I don't ask.  She doesn't tell.  That's $80 cash, $20 an hour, paid directly to her.  If she cleans ten houses a week, that's $40,000 a year.  All tax free.   We provide the cleaning supplies and she eats our food for breakfast.  Her daughter use to run the business but went back to Europe.  It's her mother who's staying here for now and working.     There's plenty of Americans who would love to have her job.   

Then why don't Americans do this work.  All the cleaning services in our area employ mainly Hispanic women.

EDIT added:  Why don't you question her citizenship or green card.  You are complicit if you do not.

[Frans Waterlander]

Yes Andrew, you found something you like because it supports your opinion. Big deal. Economics 101 teaches us that competition from low-wage, non-tax-paying illegal aliens puts a downward pressure on wages. Get it?

And thanks for mentioning my book, again. Love the free publicity!

[Alan Klein]

Then why don't Americans do this work.  All the cleaning services in our area employ mainly Hispanic women.

EDIT added:  Why don't you question her citizenship or green card.  You are complicit if you do not.

What do you pay?

[digitaldog]

I'm spending $80 for 4 hours of cleaning girl services.

I don't think I should ask what she cleans of yours.
You know or don't know if this transaction is legal? Depending on what's clean after she leaves, maybe we shouldn't go there. 

The woman is from East Europe, I believe originally on a green card but that probably has expired.  I don't ask.

Maybe you don't really want to know.....

If she cleans ten houses a week, that's $40,000 a year.  All tax free. 

Depending on how many people in her household, that's darn close to poverty level. And tax free is a fact or an assumption since by your own admission, you don't ask?

We provide the cleaning supplies and she eats our food for breakfast.

That is very kind of you.

There's plenty of Americans who would love to have her job.

So you're sure she's not an American and if you're sure she's not, you're fine not hiring an American who may pay their taxes.
Meanwhile, that you have hired this lovely lady, that discounts or dismisses that by and large, Americans do not want demanding jobs such as gutting fish or work on farm fields? I don't see how one has anything to do with the other.

[Alan Klein]

By the way, my cleaning girl may join her daughter back in Europe.  So we have been looking to find someone else.  We found this woman who wants $85 for three hours work to clean the house.  She's American (I think).  So the point is, illegals are willing to work for less.  If they weren't here,  as Frans said, then employers like me would have to pay more which would then attract Americans.  The same is true at meat packing plants.  Sure we'd have to pay more for cleaning and food, but American would have the jobs.  It appears many American care more about foreigners than they do about their American brothers and sisters.

[digitaldog]

Yes Andrew, you found something you like because it supports your opinion. Big deal. Economics 101 teaches us that competition from low-wage, non-tax-paying illegal aliens puts a downward pressure on wages. Get it?

And thanks for mentioning my book, again. Love the free publicity!

For some posting here, I'm sure it's a great read. As long as you don't attempt to publish anything about color, I'm fine with authors of fiction. In fact my preference for relaxing reading is fiction. Just finished the 7th and final Dark Tower novels by Stephen King, highly recommended but alas, no characters like Obama as in your book.

Oh, what I found I like because it appears to be factual. You can of course attempt to dismiss it but thus far, you've applied zero energy here to back up your ideas (as usual).

[digitaldog]

By the way, my cleaning girl may join her daughter back in Europe.  So we have been looking to find someone else.  We found this woman who wants $85 for three hours work to clean the house.  She's American (I think).

Don't ask, don't tell? Don't ask, don't care.

[Frans Waterlander]

You can of course attempt to dismiss it but thus far, you've applied zero energy here to back up your ideas (as usual).

You really need to educate yourself on the subject of economics or stop making comments that fly in the face of it.

[Alan Klein]

Then why don't Americans do this work.  All the cleaning services in our area employ mainly Hispanic women.

EDIT added:  Why don't you question her citizenship or green card.  You are complicit if you do not.

There's no legal requirement for me to ask her to prove she can work here because I'm not a business, I'm using her part time, and I don't can't pay withholding and social security taxes on her.  In fact, it might be illegal to ask.   I also use gardeners who are Hispanic.  I hire this one Hispanic who brings other Hispanics.  Am I suppose to ask everyone to show identification before they clip the hedges?  Well, he does have a business because I mainly pay him by check to his company.  So I assume he's legal at least.  His employees?  Well, I wouldn't take any bets. 

Look the fact is as long as you can get cheaper labor, you're going to do it even if the person is questionable.  Would you pay $100 to a company to cut your grass or $50 for some Hisplanic who may not be legal but you don't know for sure? That's why we need better laws. 

[digitaldog]

It appears many American care more about foreigners than they do about their American brothers and sisters.

Most of us were foreigners at some point. Unless you're going to tell us you are an American Indian. Any of those so called foreigners can become an American and many want to do so. Many do so! Of course, we can take the tactic that they should never be here in the first place, despite the attempt to be good citizens and pay their taxes, learn and strive to become Americans.
You tell us American care more about foreigners than they do about their American brothers and sisters, while hiring a woman who may not be an American and you're not willing to ask. I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony and hypocrisy of such a mindset.

[digitaldog]

There's no legal requirement for me to ask her to prove she can work here because I'm not a business, I'm using her part time, and I don't can't pay withholding and social security taxes on her.  In fact, it might be illegal to ask.   I also use gardeners who are Hispanic.  I hire this one Hispanic who brings other Hispanics.  Am I suppose to ask everyone to show identification before they clip the hedges?  Well, he does have a business because I mainly pay him by check to his company.  So I assume he's legal at least.  His employees?  Well, I wouldn't take any bets. 

Look the fact is as long as you can get cheaper labor, you're going to do it even if the person is questionable.  Would you pay $100 to a company to cut your grass or $50 for some Hisplanic who may not be legal but you don't know for sure? That's why we need better laws.

It appears some American care more about saving money than they do about their American brothers and sisters. Oh the irony. Oh the hypocrisy.   
No, it isn't illegal to ask, it may be immoral not to.... You can ask, you've decided not to. You may not like the answers.
Oh the hypocrisy.

[Frans Waterlander]

... and pay their taxes ...

Care to explain how illegal aliens who don't have a valid social security number pay taxes? Maybe you can explain it, because anyone else I have asked this question can't.

[digitaldog]

Care to explain how illegal aliens who don't have a valid social security number pay taxes? Maybe you can explain it, because anyone else I have asked this question can't.

Easier than trying to explain to you how to use 'the Google'. Read up on it, you may learn something!
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/

As Tax Day 2018 approaches, it is worth exploring a pressing question that is widely misunderstood: do undocumented immigrants pay federal taxes?
The short answer is yes. Many undocumented immigrants find ways to legally pay both federal income and payroll taxes even if they don’t have a Social Security number (which is normally required) and even if their income was earned by working illegally.

Frans, quit while you're behind, deep in another hole of your own digging. We got a plug for your fictional book, isn't that enough for you? You seem to know as little about undocumented immigrants paying taxes as you don't know about Solux and NEC displays.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Andrew, you keep citing "sources" that simply repeat your claims, without proof. For instance:

The short answer is yes. Many undocumented immigrants find ways to legally pay both federal income and payroll taxes even if they don’t have a Social Security number (which is normally required) and even if their income was earned by working illegally.

What are those ways? And, to use your tactic, how many is "many"?

[digitaldog]

Maybe you can explain it, because anyone else I have asked this question can't.

Everyone being only yourself, as I presumed when stating earlier: Debunked where, other than in your mind?

[Frans Waterlander]

Andrew,

I didn't ask you to go online and find somebody claiming illegal aliens pay taxes; anybody can do that. I asked you to explain how. How exactly would that work? They drop an anonymous envelope with cash in the IRS mailbox?

[Alan Goldhammer]

What do you pay?

Pay for what?  We do our own house cleaning.  On the rare occasion that we need to have someone come in we use a licensed cleaning service.

[digitaldog]

Andrew, you keep citing "sources" that simply repeat your claims, without proof. For instance:

Unlike so many here indeed. At the very least, it shows these are not inventions of my own mind, like we saw from Franz.
How many? Impossible to answer. More than none, less than every undocumented immigrant. The point is, it is possible so Franz is again confused and not asking the right people if any people.
Do you have any data that states the NO undocumented immigrants pay their taxes? If so, provide them.
Note too, it seems once again, you didn't read the outside reference. It states clearly:


Though there are many undocumented immigrants who are paid “under the table” for their work and do not pay taxes on their income, many others do pay in the hope that it will someday help them become citizens. Much of the evidence for this motivation is anecdotal, but various attempts at comprehensive immigration reform legislation over the last decade, including the “Gang of Eight” bill S.744, have included provisions like “good moral character” and “paying back taxes” as requirements for obtaining legalization. A provable history of paying taxes is seen as one way to show good faith, should such a bill ever pass.


Anecdotal by admission but that doesn’t mean it doesn't/never happens. Unlike some Americans, some undocumented immigrants go out of their way to follow the law and pay their taxes and try to be good citizens and which to become Americans. But if you continue to read the nonsense from our President and others here, you'll believe they are all rapists and drug dealers, not their countries finest. What a sad impression to have from those who are themselves, children of immigrants. So we have some who are hypocrites and don't want to know who they hire. We have some who are racists of California's who move to Colorado among others, we have some who cannot comprehend that immigrants could possibly pay taxes they don't have to etc. We have some who have zero compassion for children who are removed from their parents. A fine group, but they all believe they are photographers too.