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Author Topic: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 57184 times)

davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1560 on: January 09, 2019, 10:06:12 AM »

And the Atomos devices solve a big problem for DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras: sound. The Atomos devices totally handle XLR input and record sound as well as video. Iím even considering selling my Sony FS5 and using the Nikon Z7 for video, but Iím not quite there yet.

Are the pre-amps good in the Atomos devices? The ones that come with XLR input? I usually use zoom external audio recorders and sync audio in post in Final Cut. In case some day I think into buying an external recorder, maybe I pay a bit more for one with XLR input...

P.D.: Apologies for the off-topic

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1561 on: January 09, 2019, 10:46:06 AM »

Are the pre-amps good in the Atomos devices? The ones that come with XLR input? I usually use zoom external audio recorders and sync audio in post in Final Cut. In case some day I think into buying an external recorder, maybe I pay a bit more for one with XLR input...

P.D.: Apologies for the off-topic

I have a couple of Zoom recorders laying around here. I don't use them anymore. I am entirely happy with the Convergent Design 7Q and more recently with the sound and XLR input on the Atomos Shogun Inferno that I am currently using. Or I can use my sony SF5, which has dual XLR inputs.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:04:34 AM by Michael Erlewine »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1562 on: January 09, 2019, 04:44:35 PM »

I'm picking up by Z6 tomorrow (I really don't need the extra pixels that the Z7 offers for my type of work).  I have a question on card readers for the XQD.  Sony offer two different readers.  The high price model has two slots, one for XQD and the other for SD.  Since I already have a card reader for the latter, I don't need the additional slot.  I'm wondering what others are used for reading cards.
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armand

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1563 on: January 09, 2019, 05:34:50 PM »

I'm picking up by Z6 tomorrow (I really don't need the extra pixels that the Z7 offers for my type of work).  I have a question on card readers for the XQD.  Sony offer two different readers.  The high price model has two slots, one for XQD and the other for SD.  Since I already have a card reader for the latter, I don't need the additional slot.  I'm wondering what others are used for reading cards.

I'm using this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1242140-REG/sony_qda_sb1_j_xqd_usb_adapter.html
Cheaper than most and so far good enough.

Dan Wells

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1564 on: January 10, 2019, 12:22:03 AM »

I have the dual-slot Sony reader, for no other reason than it was the one Hunt's had in stock the day I picked up the Z7. It wasn't worth ordering the  less expensive model and paying shipping (it's under B+H's free shipping threshold) to save $30 before shipping.


It's certainly expensive for a card reader, but it seems well built. I've never used the SD slot, because the Thunderbolt 3 dock I have it plugged into has a fast SD slot of its own. The only reason to want that slot is if you don't already have a USB 3.0 (or faster) SD card reader, or if the one you have does nothing else and is taking up a USB port - use the Sony for both and save a port. If your SD slot is built into your computer, built into a hub or dock, or part of a USB 3.0 card reader you use for CF or another format, the SD slot is useless (if you have an older desktop or laptop with a built in SD reader, try the Sony to see if it's faster - some built in readers are actually USB 2.0).
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jeremyrh

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1565 on: January 10, 2019, 08:34:50 AM »

I'm using this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1242140-REG/sony_qda_sb1_j_xqd_usb_adapter.html
Cheaper than most and so far good enough.

I have the same one. I wonder if it will work with CFExpress cards? We will find out I suppose ...
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armand

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1566 on: January 10, 2019, 10:54:08 AM »

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Interesting test, confirms at some extent some of my older rants. Those were with a D750 where the combination of mirror slap and the way I'm holding the camera made it necessary to use OIS for  sharp results at 1/FL. Curious that I could do it with an X-T2 without stabilization despite higher pixel density.

Going back to this test. My conclusion from this is that you need stabilization to get sharp images at 1/FL. Their cutoff of 50% seems at little low, it means I have to chimp and check both focus and sharpness for each shot under 1/FL or take multiple shots of each scene with the added pain of sorting them later. I suspect most people will take the hit of higher ISO and save the multiple shots at lower ISO and less than 1/FL method for the scene with tricky dynamic range and color.

PS. Or you could use a camera with better stabilization for the bread and butter shots (such as m43) and save the full frame for tripod shots of the special scenes

faberryman

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1567 on: January 10, 2019, 10:56:50 AM »

Going back to this test. My conclusion from this is that you need stabilization to get sharp images at 1/FL. Their cutoff of 50% seems at little low...
No kidding. Can you imagine honest marketing: "With our new image stabilization, there's a 50-50 chance you'll get a sharp image."

armand

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1568 on: January 10, 2019, 12:11:18 PM »

At 1/FL with stabilization you get 100% with both systems. I was referring at DPReview cutoff of 50% for those 2-4 stops that they measured, I would think that at least 75% sharp enough, with most being as sharp as possible, to be considered reliable. You can maybe add the 25% sharpness cutoff as "you can get lucky if you try hard enough".

armand

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1569 on: January 10, 2019, 12:24:52 PM »

PS. both have very good stabilization at telephoto ranges though, an honest 4 stops

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1570 on: January 10, 2019, 04:11:53 PM »

And then you go back to check the initial Northup Z7 review where they they reported that the stabilization of the Sony was much better... and you get the confirmation once more that those guys simply have zero credibility.

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1571 on: January 11, 2019, 12:14:36 AM »

How are people testing stabilization? I tried it hand holding at a range of speeds and itís all over the place. I am not a beginner and think I know how to hold a camera. I told tremble at all. I use my breath much like when target shooting, in which I was trained years ago. Yet there was little consistency. Yes you can pick up a trend if you shoot multiple frames at each shutter speed but itís a long way from scientific thatís for sure.

Anyway this is going to become another pissing contest like DR. A camera with half a stop less DR is immediately branded as inferior and so it will go for IBIS.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1572 on: January 11, 2019, 12:20:05 AM »

Anyway this is going to become another pissing contest like DR. A camera with half a stop less DR is immediately branded as inferior and so it will go for IBIS.

That was never the case for DR. The gap between Sony/Nikon and Canon used to be around 2 stops which was a very real issue. Since the 5DmkIV to the gap has been reduced to a much lower value and the DR topic isn't that hot any more.

The initial report of the Northup was stating that the Z7 IBIS was nowhere near as good as the Sony. Unsurprisingly very misleading.

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1573 on: January 11, 2019, 01:05:43 AM »

That was never the case for DR. The gap between Sony/Nikon and Canon used to be around 2 stops which was a very real issue. Since the 5DmkIV to the gap has been reduced to a much lower value and the DR topic isn't that hot any more.

The initial report of the Northup was stating that the Z7 IBIS was nowhere near as good as the Sony. Unsurprisingly very misleading.

Cheers,
Bernard


That doesnít surprise me at all.  Loads of youtubers made loads of very negative comments about the Z series. Self proclaimed experts. Took me 5 minutes with the camera and I was well impressed. If there is any difference between the IBIS itís going to be small, much smaller than the differences between peoples ability to hold a camera correctly.

What I have noticed with the Sony is best Stabilisation with long lenses is when both body and lens are stabilized and the camera hands certain aspects of stabilization off to the lens and does some on the chip.
Im sure Nikon do something similar.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1574 on: January 11, 2019, 01:18:45 AM »

And then you go back to check the initial Northup Z7 review where they they reported that the stabilization of the Sony was much better... and you get the confirmation once more that those guys simply have zero credibility.

Cheers,
Bernard

The Northrups are an entertainment show, really. Sometimes they have useful information but that's mostly incidental to the business of generating clicks.
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davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1575 on: January 12, 2019, 06:26:11 PM »

I have a couple of Zoom recorders laying around here. I don't use them anymore. I am entirely happy with the Convergent Design 7Q and more recently with the sound and XLR input on the Atomos Shogun Inferno that I am currently using. Or I can use my sony SF5, which has dual XLR inputs.

Thanks Michael... I will add that to the bonus of buying a Atomos recorder for my camera... I can leave the audio recorder and external monitor at home...


http://dgpfotografia.com

Peter_DL

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1576 on: January 13, 2019, 08:23:41 AM »


https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Ö My conclusion from this is that you need stabilization to get sharp images at 1/FL. Their cutoff of 50% seems at little low, it means I have to chimp and check both focus and sharpness for each shot under 1/FL or take multiple shots of each scene with the added pain of sorting them later.

Valid point. The test and the derived f-stops of IS advantage would have been more meaningful if they went to higher shutter speeds of 1/2FL to 1/5FL without stabilization until a high success rate is reached.

Quote
PS. both have very good stabilization at telephoto ranges though, an honest 4 stops.

Ö but then this is what OIS alone already promises.
So the benefit of IBIS combined with OIS remains unclear from this test.

Quote
PS. Or you could use a camera with better stabilization for the bread and butter shots (such as m43)

I was actually interested to buy into m4/3 for this reason, but I became unsure to what extend this claim regarding better stabilization is really true.

The results here with the Olympus E-M1 MkII at 200 mm equiv. and dual IS are worse compared to the Nikon Z 7:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-ii/5

--
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kers

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1577 on: January 13, 2019, 09:51:01 AM »


The results here with the Olympus E-M1 MkII at 200 mm equiv. and dual IS are worse compared to the Nikon Z 7:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-ii/5...
and then a stabilized sharp 46MP photo is different from a sharp 20MP photo; 46Mp is far more critical.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1578 on: January 13, 2019, 10:31:46 AM »

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/8470255105/nikon-z-14-30mm-f4-photos-by-jimmy-mcintyre/8128869592

Pretty impressive I would say. I assume that this is with lens corrections applied, but this is better in the corners than my Rodenstock 23mm...

Cheers,
Bernard

armand

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1579 on: January 13, 2019, 12:13:52 PM »

and then a stabilized sharp 46MP photo is different from a sharp 20MP photo; 46Mp is far more critical.

This is on thing that I don't fully comprehend because I would have thought it should be dependent on the pixel density not on the total number of pixels, particularly if you print. Based on my experience with the D750 and X-T2 I know this is not necessarily true.
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