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Author Topic: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 160164 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1420 on: November 07, 2018, 06:37:48 pm »

Iridient développer 3.3 now supports the Z7.

Cheers,
Bernard

D White

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1421 on: November 10, 2018, 08:35:52 pm »

Yes, that may be the case, but as far as I am concerned their initial release tells me that Nikon is dead serious while Canon for now still looks like the Canon we’ve kown the past 10 years. Some appealing lenses but no worthwhile bodies to mount them on. Something akin to an expensive version of Sigma.

Cheers,
Bernard

On this I totally agree. It was sort of sad to dump most of my rather good Canon lenses as there was no body to continue using them on and life is too short to wait forever. So far I am very happy with the jump to Sony and the GM lenses I acquired. In about a week I should have my 400f2.8GM.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1422 on: November 10, 2018, 11:53:55 pm »

Canon may yet be serious - I suspect we haven't seen the body those lenses were made for... A couple of rumor sites are saying "something high resolution will come out before Photokina in May". It'll be interesting to see if it uses the recycled 50 MP sensor from the 5Ds, or something that deals with the dynamic range issues of that sensor?

I'm purely guessing here, but I think the second body may have been meant to come out in the initial release. On the other hand, a senior Canon executive (in the same interview that he hinted at the high-res body) also said something like "remember the 50mm F1.0 EF - we put that out to show we could, it was very high end for the initial EOS bodies". Of course, there were many more lenses in the initial EF release - 12 in the first year, only one of which (the 300mm f2.8 ) was at all exotic. The 50mm f1.0 came along a year or two later, around the same time as the EOS-1 (according to Wikipedia, the 50 and the EOS-1 were both 1989, but they don't say which came first.

How would the many Nikon fans on this thread feel if the initial release had excluded the Z7? Nikon happened to have a sensor that was an excellent fit for a high-res body (adding PDAF to the D850 sensor may not have been hard), and they made the decision that it was cheaper to use the high-end Z7 body for the Z6 as well than to build a "prosumer" body. The Z6 could have very easily gotten its own, D610-grade body. If that were the case, either body could have fallen behind the other in development...

I wouldn't be surprised if Canon has two cameras waiting for us at Photokina? How about an "EOS-R1" and an "EOS-R1s"? What if they share a body that addresses many of the complaints about the EOS-R? The EOS-R1 would have the best AF system yet seen in mirrorless (and competitive with the EOS-1Dx mkII) and a maximum frame rate of 12 FPS or more on a sub-30 MP sensor. The EOS-R1s would lose a lot of the frame rate, but pick up a sensor in the 50 MP range. The challenge is that Sony and Nikon have set the going rate for a high-resolution body in the low $3000s, and Canon may well want to charge more than that for the fast body. They could follow Sony's example with the A7rIII and the A9, going against years of their own pricing policy with any EOS 1D and Ds variant, and make the fast body more expensive than the high-res variant, they could add enough features that they at least try to put the high-res body close to 1Ds territory, or they could just price them similarly ($4500? - the high-res body would need something that clearly set it above the Z7 and A7rIII).

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D White

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1423 on: November 11, 2018, 12:47:28 am »

Canon will obviously come out with higher end bodies; one with high MP and another with faster frame rates.

The question is more about what their sensor tech will be. They seem to be tone deaf on the failure of their dynamic range to compete with every one else on the planet and I lost faith that that will change any time soon. One of the problems is that they seem to be able to sell what ever warmed over sensor tech they push out, so I guess they think why bother investing heavily into better sensors. I would predict that this tone deaf stance will continue until the bottom falls out of their sales.

I believe some never experience the lack of dynamic range depending on the images they take and the image processing they apply, while others don't realize how much better it can be. This sub set will be happy to line up and buy what ever Canon puts in front of them and believe what ever Canon tells them they should be happy with. Others are so committed in lenses that they try to ignore the issue and hold out for better days ahead, (I was one of these until I final gave up).

I also question how well the dual pixel AF is really going to compete. There are very mixed views on the R as it is, and I just don't trust Canon will get it right, because, well, they are Canon.
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DP

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1424 on: November 11, 2018, 07:08:59 am »

Canon will obviously come out with higher end bodies; one with high MP and another with faster frame rates.

or not or may be 5 years later... or may be with the same M.Fn bar as on their current EOS - R ( or may be with 2 more bars  ;D )

The question is more about what their sensor tech will be. They seem to be tone deaf on the failure of their dynamic range to compete with every one else on the planet

Give them credit - they mostly get rid of the banding in deep shadows that was even further reducing DR measured by sites like DxO or Bill Claff's one !
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kers

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1425 on: November 11, 2018, 10:25:53 am »

Canon may yet be serious - I suspect we haven't seen the body those lenses were made for...
This sounds a bit like    ... Leica..?
ah ...the future...
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D White

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1426 on: November 11, 2018, 10:41:29 am »

or not or may be 5 years later... or may be with the same M.Fn bar as on their current EOS - R ( or may be with 2 more bars  ;D )

Give them credit - they mostly get rid of the banding in deep shadows that was even further reducing DR measured by sites like DxO or Bill Claff's one !

Other than maybe the 1Dx2, there is still plenty of banding. Enough to keep noise reduction software busy for years.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1427 on: November 11, 2018, 12:34:20 pm »

Even as a Nikon and Fuji shooter, I tend to give Canon significantly more credit than Leica. At least Canon makes cameras that are meant to be used - some absurd portion of Leica's revenue comes from commemorative models that will never leave the box. I believe it was Leica CEO Andreas Kaufmann (?) who said something like "we could omit the sensor from half the cameras we make, and the buyer would never know - we just don't know which ones" :) There are probably certain commemoratives where it's well over half that don't need a sensor, and some of them are actually unique in operation (they have some unusual feature other than a paint job). Their first rear screen-less digital rangefinder was only a commemorative, although they later released a standard model without a screen. I'm not sure the original Monochrom wasn't commemorative-only???
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 12:39:14 pm by Dan Wells »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1428 on: November 12, 2018, 08:31:57 am »

I finally found the time to use my Leica 180mm f2.8 APO on the Z7.

What a joy, never got so many tack sharp images with it. The EVF is really amazing!

Cheers,
Bernard

armand

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1429 on: November 17, 2018, 07:56:22 pm »

Another focus stack experiment; it's getting easier but you still have to go through multiple shots, at least in close ups, to figure it out how many shots you need. It might be that you can be more liberal with the focus steps at close distance.

MichaelEzra

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1430 on: November 17, 2018, 07:58:18 pm »

Z7... finally, Nikon, bracketing with 3 EV step!
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32BT

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1431 on: November 18, 2018, 02:35:49 am »

Another focus stack experiment; it's getting easier but you still have to go through multiple shots, at least in close ups, to figure it out how many shots you need. It might be that you can be more liberal with the focus steps at close distance.

What's the problem with just taking a superfluous number of shots and handpicking what you actually need? i.e. let it take 10 shots and using only the first 5 for the actual composite? Or is this in-camera merging?
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1432 on: November 18, 2018, 03:41:20 am »

I finally found the time to use my Leica 180mm f2.8 APO on the Z7.

What a joy, never got so many tack sharp images with it. The EVF is really amazing!

Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard, now that you've used the Z7 for a while, how are you feeling with the EVF experience?. Do you miss something when going back to your D850's OVF? or viceversa.

Regards
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 01:16:46 pm by Guillermo Luijk »
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kers

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1433 on: November 18, 2018, 06:45:43 am »

Z7... finally, Nikon, bracketing with 3 EV step!
also on the d850 and d810
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 03:22:52 pm by kers »
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armand

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1434 on: November 18, 2018, 02:35:40 pm »

What's the problem with just taking a superfluous number of shots and handpicking what you actually need? i.e. let it take 10 shots and using only the first 5 for the actual composite? Or is this in-camera merging?

Time-space continuum.

Time:
A. when you take the shots, you want the shortest time for various reasons (change in light, small movements, you want to take photos of more things, etc)
B. I don't want to go through too many shots and select the best, it can be quite time consuming.

Space:
take too many unnecessary shots and soon you run out of space, lose more time changing the card, etc

Can it be done as you say? Sure. It's less efficient though.

Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1435 on: November 22, 2018, 01:10:30 am »

Why have we not yet seen Kevin's Z7 review, nor even any mention of it on Luminous (outside the forum)? He mentioned on the forum that he had one coming, and, meanwhile, there are at least four or five of us on here who are shooting it (and getting great results, although it is quirky for some applications). The Z7 deserves the front page for a bit... It's certainly the most interesting camera of 2018, in my opinion (the Canon lenses indicate that they have a great body coming, but the EOS-R isn't it). For some things it can't be beat, and a landscape-focused site should have a review of the best landscape camera around...

I'd put the X-H1 (IBIS, video) and A7III (great new sensor, battery) in second place for most interesting release of 2018, then the GFX-50R , then probably the EOS-R. The A7rIII and D850 are both 2017 releases (and galloped away with all the awards, between them).
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1436 on: November 22, 2018, 05:30:49 am »

Why have we not yet seen Kevin's Z7 review, nor even any mention of it on Luminous (outside the forum)? He mentioned on the forum that he had one coming, and, meanwhile, there are at least four or five of us on here who are shooting it (and getting great results, although it is quirky for some applications). The Z7 deserves the front page for a bit... It's certainly the most interesting camera of 2018, in my opinion (the Canon lenses indicate that they have a great body coming, but the EOS-R isn't it). For some things it can't be beat, and a landscape-focused site should have a review of the best landscape camera around...

I'd put the X-H1 (IBIS, video) and A7III (great new sensor, battery) in second place for most interesting release of 2018, then the GFX-50R , then probably the EOS-R. The A7rIII and D850 are both 2017 releases (and galloped away with all the awards, between them).

Kevin went through hip replacement surgery by the end of September. He is probably taking it slowly during these months...



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jeremyrh

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1437 on: November 22, 2018, 07:54:24 am »

Kevin went through hip replacement surgery by the end of September. He is probably taking it slowly during these months...

Somehow managed to find a Canon shooter to make a video about the EOS-R, though.

(Having said that, it's not a review that will have anybody running to their local Canon dealer)
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1438 on: November 22, 2018, 08:43:44 am »

Somehow managed to find a Canon shooter to make a video about the EOS-R, though.

(Having said that, it's not a review that will have anybody running to their local Canon dealer)

I knew it... I should have said nothing...



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BJL

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Nikon’s new mirrorless system, and crowd-sourced reviews?
« Reply #1439 on: November 22, 2018, 12:24:06 pm »

How about some crowd-sourcing of reviews: a thread for the Z7 (and one for each interesting new camera) intended only for reports from actual users of said camera?
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