Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018

[HSakols]

As a landscape person, my one gribe with the Z7 is fact that I have to reset the exposure delay timer each time I turn the camera off.   Is there anyway to keep it fixed at a 2 second delay.  I always work from a tripod and I've turned IBIS off.  This is quite an upgrade from a D800!  Working with the images in Lightroom are a real joy. 

[armand]

As a landscape person, my one gribe with the Z7 is fact that I have to reset the exposure delay timer each time I turn the camera off.   Is there anyway to keep it fixed at a 2 second delay.  I always work from a tripod and I've turned IBIS off.  This is quite an upgrade from a D800!  Working with the images in Lightroom are a real joy.

We can add this to things to change in a firmware update although, as I said before, Nikon is unlikely to do such a thing.
The fact that in focus stacking you lose the live view is also quite annoying if you want to shoot handheld, I'm more comfortable now from a tripod.

[armand]

I don't think that this is about protecting the D850, this is about protecting the upcoming Z8/Z9.

Cheers,
Bernard

Regardless, it feels they didn't give their best shot. And if they did this to protect the future Z8/9 then it means it's even worse, they will have zero incentive to update the firmware and correct some of these things.

[BernardLanguillier]

Regardless, it feels they didn't give their best shot. And if they did this to protect the future Z8/9 then it means it's even worse, they will have zero incentive to update the firmware and correct some of these things.

There are 3 categories among the gaps mentioned by Thom:
- market segmentation related (typically hardware related) or technical consequences of the compact body size: the camera size/single card decision, the number of frame per second, the buffer size,...
- voluntarily improvements/simplifications designed to improve the experience (that may be bad ideas): the logic of AF control, in particular tracking
- aspects where the performance isn’t at D850 level: mostly AF speed and battery life

In my view we may get firmware improvements for type 3 and possibly specs tuning for type 2.

Whether type 1 is designed to differentiate from the D850 or the Z8, whether these design decisions are meant or mere limitations resulting from the compacter body are not obvious questions.

As a result I find it a bit abrupt and unsubstantiated to blame Nikon for trying to protect the D850.

Cheers,
Bernard

[armand]

There are 3 categories among the gaps mentioned by Thom:
- market segmentation related (typically hardware related) or technical consequences of the compact body size: the camera size/single card decision, the number of frame per second, the buffer size,...
- voluntarily improvements/simplifications designed to improve the experience (that may be bad ideas): the logic of AF control, in particular tracking
- aspects where the performance isn’t at D850 level: mostly AF speed and battery life

In my view we may get firmware improvements for type 3 and possibly specs tuning for type 2.

Whether type 1 is designed to differentiate from the D850 or the Z8, whether these design decisions are meant or mere limitations resulting from the compacter body are not obvious questions.

As a result I find it a bit abrupt and unsubstantiated to blame Nikon for trying to protect the D850.

Cheers,
Bernard

But it's not abrupt, I've been saying this all along.
I still got the camera as it can serve a specific purpose for me but it could and should have been more.
As for unsubstantiated, read again. There are clear reasons, and there are multiple people saying this. FYI, I don't care that much about the limitations of the body size and all that come with it (that would have been a deal breaker). I care more about focus and usability.
I'm learning to work around some limitations and get it do more, maybe I'll get warmer. I already did at some extent compared to when I got it and was really close to send it back.

You are too protective with what Nikon does, like a personal protegee. They are big boys, they should be able to handle criticism.

Lastly, do you truly think Nikon will follow the footsteps of other companies and offer firmware updates that truly improve the product and not just just fix some glaring problems? As far as I recall they never did it.

[BernardLanguillier]

I am not sure how writing that Nikon specced the Z7 in anticipation of the Z8 is more protective of Nikon that writing that they specced the Z7 to preserve D850 sales.

Those are just two different explanation about the way they perceive their current and future line-up.

One is the right one. In think Thom is wrong on this.

I don't think I am in denial of the shortcomings of the Z7, my list clearly acknowledges them doesn't it?

On your last point, it is clear that Nikon doesn't have a good track record in terms of delivering features through firmware updates (although they did add vertical/horizontal line group AF to the D5), but they did improve the D800 AF through firmware, so I so believe there is a real possibility for AF and power consumption. The 2 topics are obviously related because AF is pretty much CPU cycles and that relates to power usage.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Telecaster]

I think Nikon's (and Canon's) hurry up! mirrorless offerings are less about protecting other products in their own lineups and more about trying to put the brakes on Sony now, while they still have a chance at staying in the game.

-Dave-

[hogloff]

I think Nikon's (and Canon's) hurry up! mirrorless offerings are less about protecting other products in their own lineups and more about trying to put the brakes on Sony now, while they still have a chance at staying in the game.

-Dave-

I agree with this. If Sony was not in the game...does anyone really think either Canon or Nikon would have a full frame mirrorless offering?

They had no choice. The writings on the wall that there is a movement now to mirror less cameras...driven in the full frame market by Sony. CaNikon had no choice but to enter this market or be in danger of being left holding the bag.

[BernardLanguillier]

I think Nikon's (and Canon's) hurry up! mirrorless offerings are less about protecting other products in their own lineups and more about trying to put the brakes on Sony now, while they still have a chance at staying in the game.

I am really at a loss as to why Nikon and Canon are considered similarly on this front.

The R is no where near the Z in terms of specs and technological progress.

Yes, the Z is not at the level of the a7rIII on all fronts, but it is superior (or at least equal) in terms of:
- image quality (which remains an important aspect of cameras)
- mount potential (gap similar to the one between F mount and EOS)
- usability/UI/body quality feel
- ruggedness
- EVF (and the gap is significant)
- video specs and video AF
- build quality/manufacturing technology
- adaptability of third party lenses thanks to its much thinner cover glass
- image stabilization

It does fall behind in terms of
- AF speed and usability
- battery life (but its battery life is good enough for most usages)
- shooting speed (but the speed is sufficient for general usage)
- lack of double battery card

The importance of these will vary from person to person, and I do understand that some shooters find the a7rIII to be vastly superior do to eye AF alone (and I would tend to agree), but, at least, how can Nikon be looked at as not being fully in in mirrorless with what they have delivered this time around?

If you try to draw a similar comparison table with the Canon you'll easily see that they are the ones slowing down with close to zero investement compared to what they already had elsewhere. How is the R not mostly a piecing together of an M, a 6DII and a 5DMkIV, none of that, except some aspects of the AF, being close to best in class?

Cheers,
Bernard

[DP]

- EVF (and the gap is significant)

I did not follow the spec closely - where is the significant gap in EVF ?

[BernardLanguillier]

I did not follow the spec closely - where is the significant gap in EVF ?

I advise you to try both cameras side to side. The resolution is similar but the experience is quite different.

Don’t take my word for it, please see for yourself.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Michael Erlewine]

I advise you to try both cameras side to side. The resolution is similar but the experience is quite different.

Don’t take my word for it, please see for yourself.

Cheers,
Bernard

I agree with Bernard. I have owned the Sony A7s, A7r2, A7r3, and both the Hasselblad and Fujifilm mirrorless and the Nikon Z7 (in my opinion) is the superior camera by far. It is a lovely piece of work.

[Manoli]

- adaptability of third party lenses thanks to its much thinner cover glass

Do we know what the thickness of the cover glass is ?

[BernardLanguillier]

Do we know what the thickness of the cover glass is ?

Looks like it is 1.1mm.

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2018/20181031_1430-ZeissZM35f1_4-NikonZ7.html

Cheers,
Bernard

[Manoli]

Looks like it is 1.1mm.

Thanks, Bernard.

[SrMi]

As a landscape person, my one gribe with the Z7 is fact that I have to reset the exposure delay timer each time I turn the camera off.   Is there anyway to keep it fixed at a 2 second delay.  I always work from a tripod and I've turned IBIS off.  This is quite an upgrade from a D800!  Working with the images in Lightroom are a real joy.

Instead of Self-Timer, you can uses d4: Exposure Delay Mode. At least with 1.0.1, Exposure Delay Mode does not get reset when turning camera off/on.

[Michael Erlewine]

Instead of Self-Timer, you can uses d4: Exposure Delay Mode. At least with 1.0.1, Exposure Delay Mode does not get reset when turning camera off/on.

I like and use the corded external remote.

[Mike Dale]

There’s such a thing a criticism and there’s such a thing as incessant whining. People need to accept the Z7 for what it is, nobody forced anyone to buy it. I’ve already sold my A7Riii with zero regrets.

[kers]

I don't think Nikon held back on the Z7 en Z6.
They did there ultimate best to produce a camera that can compete in a strong field.
It would anyway not wise to do so, since a successor (z8) may take another 2 years ( Olympics 2020) and the competiton will move forward.
There are two simple reasons the camera has more to offer than a d850; IBIS and the Z lenses, small and good.

[armand]

I like and use the corded external remote.

I would too but when there are some rain drops out there I don't want to take the risk and a cover is an added complication for few drops.