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Author Topic: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 161102 times)

D Fuller

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1340 on: October 26, 2018, 01:27:27 pm »

The images certainly look very sharp, David, and the third image has a lovely mixture of colors. However, what attracts me about the new S lenses for the Z7, is their improved edge and corner sharpness. Have you investigated this issue and done comparisons with F mount lenses?

I’ve been using the two S lenses and the F-Mount 70-200 f2.8 VRII mostly. My feeling about the S lenses is that they are very clean. They seem sharp everywhere, and seem to have very little color cast. I think this is even more true for the 35mm than for the 24-70. That lens has a clarity that seems quite special. I’m sure part of the color observation is due to the camera's improved white balance algorithms; that seems to me to be a significant, if subtle step. But I do think the lens plays a part as well.

I have been very impressed with the performance of the 70-200 on the Z. Focus is very quick, even using the TC14. (I think I have v2 of that.) that’s a very sharp lens as well, and seems very much at home on the camera.

I have a good set of AI primes, which are, of course, not in the same class as those three lenses in terms of sharpness (especially wide open) but which are a pleasure to focus with the EVF. I’ll post some images with them when I get a bit of time.

I’ve been meaning to do a head-to-head comparison with my 24-70 f2.8 (non VR version) but haven’t gotten to that yet.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1341 on: October 26, 2018, 08:05:55 pm »

As I understand it (I am not a subscriber), focus shift is pronounced only if you do Focusing wide open, and then close the aperture to take a picture. Normally, Z7 focuses at working aperture or f5.6, thus eliminating focus shift.

More recent posts take some of that back.
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SrMi

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1342 on: October 27, 2018, 06:27:13 am »

More recent posts take some of that back.

Yes, it seems to have been just wishful thinking.
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D Fuller

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1343 on: October 28, 2018, 02:39:49 pm »

Yes, it seems to have been just wishful thinking.
Kasson seems to think the focus shift is not very significant at all. 35 mm f/1.8 Nikkor S focus shift

Is he mistaken?
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D Fuller

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1344 on: October 28, 2018, 02:50:09 pm »

A couple of images taken on the Z7 with my Nikon 20mm f2.8 AI-S lens. These were wide open, a bit after sunset. 1/25th @ iso800.

It's a real pleasure to focus manual lenses on this camera. But I do wish Nikon had put aperture indexing into the FTZ adapter. Especially as they still sell some AI-S lenses.


Rye Grass by David Fuller, on Flickr


Rye Grass B&W by David Fuller, on Flickr
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SrMi

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1345 on: October 28, 2018, 05:45:29 pm »

Kasson seems to think the focus shift is not very significant at all. 35 mm f/1.8 Nikkor S focus shift

Is he mistaken?

I don't think Jim Kasson is wrong. Lloyd's focus shift analysis is not public, therefore I cannot judge his findings.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1346 on: October 28, 2018, 11:19:19 pm »

I have had the chance to spend more time with the Z7 and 35mm f1.8 S and it seems that silent shooting mode really helps to tap into the resolution potential of the sensor and lens. Just as I experienced this, I have read this post from Jim Kasson who confirms the point beautiffully:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61851364

This experience confirms my intuition that the Z7 is really and M10 killer, it excels at this stealth street shooting kind of photography with pretty amazing results.

It also works wonders as a complement to my Hasselblad MF set up.

I did apply 1.01 before the shoot, not sure I noticed any fundamental change, but I didn't look for any really.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:15:06 am by BernardLanguillier »
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D Fuller

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1347 on: October 28, 2018, 11:22:44 pm »

I don't think Jim Kasson is wrong. Lloyd's focus shift analysis is not public, therefore I cannot judge his findings.

I can’t see Lloyd’s article either. I used to subscribe to some of his blogs, but he’s priced himself out of my willingness to play along.
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KLaban

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1348 on: October 29, 2018, 05:26:48 am »

I have had the chance to spend more time with the Z7 and 35mm f1.8 S and it seems that silent shooting mode really helps to tap into the resolution potential of the sensor and lens. Just as I experienced this, I have read this post from Jim Kasson who confirms the point beautiffully:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61851364

This experience confirms my intuition that the Z7 is really and M10 killer it excels at this stealth street shooting kind of photography with pretty amazing results.,

It also works wonders as a complement to my Hasselblad MF set up.

I did apply 1.01 before the shoot, not sure I noticed any fundamental change, but I didn't look for any really.

Cheers,
Bernard

Cameras don't excel at this stealth street shooting kind of photography: however some people do.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1349 on: October 29, 2018, 05:40:00 am »

Cameras don't excel at this stealth street shooting kind of photography: however some people do.

Yes, you are right of course. But camera can or not hinder this ability.

And once you have managed to be stealth, you are still hoping to be able to capture the scene with very high quality, reasonnably compact lenses, in low light,...

Cheers,
Bernard

KLaban

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1350 on: October 29, 2018, 06:38:44 am »

Yes, you are right of course. But camera can or not hinder this ability.

And once you have managed to be stealth, you are still hoping to be able to capture the scene with very high quality, reasonnably compact lenses, in low light,...

Cheers,
Bernard

I'm not sure the Masters of street photography were hindered by their cameras.

If modern cameras were a measure of competency then we'd all be Masters and have no excuses.   

KLaban

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1351 on: October 29, 2018, 08:38:45 am »

BTW, this is what I'd call compact.

armand

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1352 on: October 29, 2018, 03:08:07 pm »

UPDATES

Focus shift
- if you focus at 1-2m away with about 4 shots and step 2 you will have things in focus up to 30-50m which is most of DOF that I would want. This is valid for 24-28mm. Go to ~ 35mm and you will need 5 shots.
I'll need to further experiment but this seems like a good starting point.


Postprocessing in LR
- the default import seems to change the contrast from shot to shot
- the default import sharpening has a very large radius at 2, with details at 25% and noise reduction at 25.
Any thoughts on these?

armand

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1353 on: October 29, 2018, 03:37:19 pm »

Few focus shifts from today

John Camp

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1354 on: October 29, 2018, 05:49:56 pm »

I'm not sure the Masters of street photography were hindered by their cameras.

If modern cameras were a measure of competency then we'd all be Masters and have no excuses.

Really? Most of the masters of film-era street photography chose Leicas, because they were small and handy. Ignoring for a moment news photographers like Weegee who some might consider related to street photography, the masters didn't choose 4x5s, because then they would have been hindered. So, apparently, they were making the best tech choices they could at the time.

Nobody (so far) has argued that modern cameras are a measure of competency; only that some cameras might be a wiser choice for street photography than others. That seems to me to be obvious, and is the reason I shoot Panasonic GX8s when shooting street, rather than dragging my D800 around with the f2.8 zooms that look like bazookas. I'm interested in the Z7 and maybe the Z6 or maybe one of each, but right now I'm still hung up on the size of the Nikon Z lenses, because I'm afraid that the size, even if smaller than the F-mount lenses, might be a hinderance.
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KLaban

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1355 on: October 29, 2018, 06:19:52 pm »

Really? Most of the masters of film-era street photography chose Leicas, because they were small and handy. Ignoring for a moment news photographers like Weegee who some might consider related to street photography, the masters didn't choose 4x5s, because then they would have been hindered. So, apparently, they were making the best tech choices they could at the time.

Nobody (so far) has argued that modern cameras are a measure of competency; only that some cameras might be a wiser choice for street photography than others. That seems to me to be obvious, and is the reason I shoot Panasonic GX8s when shooting street, rather than dragging my D800 around with the f2.8 zooms that look like bazookas. I'm interested in the Z7 and maybe the Z6 or maybe one of each, but right now I'm still hung up on the size of the Nikon Z lenses, because I'm afraid that the size, even if smaller than the F-mount lenses, might be a hinderance.

I suggested that the Masters weren't hindered by their cameras of choice which as you suggested were often Leicas. They happen to be my cameras of choice for similar reasons in similar circumstances. What Bernard, you or I see as an advantage or hindrance in camera choice doesn't necessarily apply to all.

I suggested that modern cameras were not a measure of competency, for if they were we'd all be Masters. I also suggested that cameras don't excel at stealth street photography but rather that some people do.

How do we differ?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 06:34:32 pm by KLaban »
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SrMi

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1356 on: October 30, 2018, 03:34:33 am »

UPDATES

Focus shift
- if you focus at 1-2m away with about 4 shots and step 2 you will have things in focus up to 30-50m which is most of DOF that I would want. This is valid for 24-28mm. Go to ~ 35mm and you will need 5 shots.
I'll need to further experiment but this seems like a good starting point.


Postprocessing in LR
- the default import seems to change the contrast from shot to shot
- the default import sharpening has a very large radius at 2, with details at 25% and noise reduction at 25.
Any thoughts on these?

The number of shots required depends also on the aperture used, AFAIK.
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kers

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1357 on: October 30, 2018, 06:10:00 am »

I have noticed with the d850 that Nikon has some sort of algoritm that calculates the focus jumps depending on the aperture and type of lens.
The effect: step 4 would be sufficient most of the time.
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armand

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1358 on: October 30, 2018, 12:27:21 pm »

The number of shots required depends also on the aperture used, AFAIK.

Forgot to say, I used F8 only.

Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1359 on: October 30, 2018, 01:46:09 pm »

LensRentals' teardown is up...

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2018/10/teardown-of-the-nikon-z7-mirrorless-camera/

He usually doesn't like weather sealing, but he liked this one. It's a D850, if not a D5.

I got caught in a downpour for a few minutes yesterday, and (as expected) no problem...

Dan
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