Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018

[chez]

Apparently their oversized mount still wasn't large enough...!

So much talk about the large mount enabling brilliant lenses and yet we get strong vignette and smeary corners. Come on Nikn...lets make the mount HUGE.

[JohnHeerema]

For folks who like pictures, here what sharpness looks like at a few focal lengths on my 24-70 f/4 S.

Please note that absolute sharpness values should be taken with a huge grain of salt, as I'm not set up to reliably test absolute sharpness - I only use Imatest for relative comparisons. Also, these were done with focus set on the centre point. Before judging the corner performance, I hope to find some time to run some tests with the focus point set close to the corners, as the plane of focus may well be (is likely to be) a bit curved.

[SrMi]

For folks who like pictures, here what sharpness looks like at a few focal lengths on my 24-70 f/4 S.

Please note that absolute sharpness values should be taken with a huge grain of salt, as I'm not set up to reliably test absolute sharpness - I only use Imatest for relative comparisons. Also, these were done with focus set on the centre point. Before judging the corner performance, I hope to find some time to run some tests with the focus point set close to the corners, as the plane of focus may well be (is likely to be) a bit curved.

Thanks! What did you use to convert raw files to TIFF?

[JohnHeerema]

Thanks! What did you use to convert raw files to TIFF?

I used the new converter that ships with Imatest.
Let me know if you need more details.

[armand]

What do you guys think about ergonomics?
I received it today and I'm still not decided but I did open the box (it's not sealed) to see how the Z7 fits in hand. I didn't think the ergonomics are that great, the caveat being I didn't put the lens on it.
The FN buttons next to the mount are difficult to reach. The buttons on the right lower back require repositioning of the right hand. Despite the much deeper grip it didn't feel that much better than a Fuji X-T2 which has its own warts (the in between top dials Fn button it's very difficult to access). Maybe I should try a Sony too

[JohnHeerema]

What do you guys think about ergonomics?

I find the function buttons to be quite easy to use, but I've got long fingers, which probably helps.

There's limited flexibility in how you can assign functions to the physical controls, which means that I can't set it up quite the way I want it.

Focus stacking is an ergonomic disaster. It looks like someone at Nikon had read that there was something called focus stacking, and wanted to be able to put it on the feature checklist, but didn't actually know anything about it. Presumably there weren't any smart people left to implement it, so it went to someone on what Michael called "The B Team" in his review of the Fuji X100. It's awful in so many ways, but could easily be fixed in firmware if it ever got assigned to someone on the "A Team".

The virtual horizon is gaudy and intrusive, unlike the nice subtle virtual horizon in Nikon's DSLRs (it looks like the silly version in LiveView got used instead). That's a real shame for me, because I use the virtual horizon in the vast majority of my shots.

Nikon has a reputation for being lazy about firmware updates, but I think that the company is on the line with the Z system, so I'm optimistic that Nikon management will consider allocating some funds to improving the user experience.

[SrMi]

I used the new converter that ships with Imatest.
Let me know if you need more details.

Thanks. Does it apply the built-in lens profile? If you read the file with LR or Capture NX-D, the distortion gets fixed and the file slightly cropped automatically (no way to opt-out). It is a mandatory/typical step for lenses that rely on SDC (Software Distortion Correction).

[JohnHeerema]

Does it apply the built-in lens profile?

There is no such thing as a built in lens profile in Imatest - it works from raw files - and, as far as I know, Nikon does not adjust raw files to compensate for known lens aberrations. Nikon might (or more likely, might not) clarify this at some point.

[SrMi]

What do you guys think about ergonomics?
I received it today and I'm still not decided but I did open the box (it's not sealed) to see how the Z7 fits in hand. I didn't think the ergonomics are that great, the caveat being I didn't put the lens on it.
The FN buttons next to the mount are difficult to reach. The buttons on the right lower back require repositioning of the right hand. Despite the much deeper grip it didn't feel that much better than a Fuji X-T2 which has its own warts (the in between top dials Fn button it's very difficult to access). Maybe I should try a Sony too

IMO, if you are used to Nikon DSLRs, you may find the ergonomics worse. If you are used to other mirrorless cameras, you may find the ergonomics better (especially when comparing to Sony). I personally am very happy to get a mirrorless camera that comes close to my preferred ergonomics, those of Nikon DSLRs.

[SrMi]

There is no such thing as a built in lens profile in Imatest - it works from raw files - and, as far as I know, Nikon does not adjust raw files to compensate for known lens aberrations. Nikon might (or more likely, might not) clarify this at some point.

Nikon Z7 files are the first ones to have built-in profiles, AFAIK (see LR Lens Correction tab and/or compare a 24mm image with and without correction). I think it would be interesting to convert your test files to TIFF using Capture NX-D, if possible. Otherwise, you'll be measuring corners that nobody will see anyway.

[Christopher]

I didn’t like how it felt in my hands. The same goes for all current FF mirrored cameras. I find it very „exhausting“ carrying them in my hand for a longer time. In 10 Times prefer the grip of a d850 or in my case GFX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DP]

Nikon Z7 files are the first ones to have built-in profiles, AFAIK (see LR Lens Correction tab and/or compare a 24mm image with and without correction).

you nave no clue - the first ones were raw files from Panasonic P&S (like LX3) many-many years ago ... and that is what forced Adobe to make changes to DNG standard and introduce optics correction tags, that was if I am not mistaken since LX3 in the summer of 2008

[JohnHeerema]

Ah, that must be why the NEF file format changed.

I don't use Nikon software, but I exported TIFFs from Lightroom, with the built-in lens profile active.
The results changed more than I had expected that they would change if the lens profile only addressed geometry. Interesting.
I'd post the charts, but the LL server seems to be cranky about attachments today.

[SrMi]

you nave no clue - the first ones were raw files from Panasonic P&S (like LX3) many-many years ago ... and that is what forced Adobe to make changes to DNG standard and introduce optics correction tags, that was if I am not mistaken since LX3 in the summer of 2008

I meant that the first Nikon's files to have built-in profiles are the files from Z7, AFAIK. I thought that was clear from the context, but apparently, it was not.

Many of my cameras have been having built-in profiles for many years, fully aware of that. Sometimes those built-in profiles are not really needed (read Sean Reid complaining about them), sometimes they are very needed, almost mandatory.

[SrMi]

Ah, that must be why the NEF file format changed.

I don't use Nikon software, but I exported TIFFs from Lightroom, with the built-in lens profile active.
The results changed more than I had expected that they would change if the lens profile only addressed geometry. Interesting.
I'd post the charts, but the LL server seems to be cranky about attachments today.

Capture NX-D is a free download and generates TIFF files with less vignetting at f4.0 than LR does. It is easy to use if you only want to convert :-).
I think applying the profile also crops a bit so that the extreme & unsharp corners fall out. After cropping, the image looks as it was in the EVF.
Another trap is when you use ExifTool as a hack to force an older version of LR to accept Z7 files: built-in profiles do not get applied in that case.

[armand]

I meant that the first Nikon's files to have built-in profiles are the files from Z7, AFAIK. I thought that was clear from the context, but apparently, it was not.

It was clear, that's just him.

IMO, if you are used to Nikon DSLRs, you may find the ergonomics worse. If you are used to other mirrorless cameras, you may find the ergonomics better (especially when comparing to Sony). I personally am very happy to get a mirrorless camera that comes close to my preferred ergonomics, those of Nikon DSLRs.

I use a D750 on the DSLR side (never the "pro" stuff), X-E1 and X-T1/2 from Fuji and Oly E-M5ii. Most of the times they have an L-plate attached. I think I like the most the X-T2 for overall ergonomics but D750 is the most comfortable to hold. Keep in mind I almost always use 2 hands, with the left holding the lens so the grip is less important than for others. I appreciate a deeper grip when carrying the camera not that much when shooting.

The Z7 felt a little weird. The grip is deep but if you hold it properly your thumb goes away or is less easy to get to the buttons on the bottom right. To reach the function buttons next to the mount I have to release the grip a little; it feels more natural on both X-T2 and E-M5ii. The caveat to this is I tried it without a lens, it's very possible/likely it will be easier the reach them if I hold the camera by the lens and don't need to hold on the grip that tight.

I find the function buttons to be quite easy to use, but I've got long fingers, which probably helps.

There's limited flexibility in how you can assign functions to the physical controls, which means that I can't set it up quite the way I want it.

Focus stacking is an ergonomic disaster. It looks like someone at Nikon had read that there was something called focus stacking, and wanted to be able to put it on the feature checklist, but didn't actually know anything about it. Presumably there weren't any smart people left to implement it, so it went to someone on what Michael called "The B Team" in his review of the Fuji X100. It's awful in so many ways, but could easily be fixed in firmware if it ever got assigned to someone on the "A Team".

The virtual horizon is gaudy and intrusive, unlike the nice subtle virtual horizon in Nikon's DSLRs (it looks like the silly version in LiveView got used instead). That's a real shame for me, because I use the virtual horizon in the vast majority of my shots.

Nikon has a reputation for being lazy about firmware updates, but I think that the company is on the line with the Z system, so I'm optimistic that Nikon management will consider allocating some funds to improving the user experience.

I wish I can be optimistic about it but did Nikon ever release firmware updates that were more than bug fixes? I don't see anything in this "new" Nikon that says they changed and I don't think they will, not willingly at least. While Fuji has flaws they correct them and more importantly they add new features that were not there. Oly and Pana (less) are following this example. Even Sony is doing some, although they mostly release new cameras.

[D Fuller]

What do you guys think about ergonomics?
I received it today and I'm still not decided but I did open the box (it's not sealed) to see how the Z7 fits in hand. I didn't think the ergonomics are that great, the caveat being I didn't put the lens on it.
The FN buttons next to the mount are difficult to reach. The buttons on the right lower back require repositioning of the right hand. Despite the much deeper grip it didn't feel that much better than a Fuji X-T2 which has its own warts (the in between top dials Fn button it's very difficult to access). Maybe I should try a Sony too

I like the ergonomics quite a lot. I just picked mine up today, and have been testing with various lenses and under varous conditions.

My middle and ring fingers fall quite naturally onto the function buttons as I hold the camera (with my left hand largely supporting it under the lens). The combinaton of those with the dials for AF and WB settings works well for me, though I'm not sure I see the need for WB to be as accessible as that, so I may play with assigning that function to something else.

I need to find a buton to assign to Live View 1:1 magnification for manual focus lenses; the +/- buttons are in an awkward place to use with the viewfinder.

And as most every one has said, the the AF tracking controls are, at best, non-intuitive. I'm a long way from confident that I've got those understood yet.

Balance of the camera seems fine with everything I've got up through the 70-200 f2.8. And that lens autofocusses very well. I have a MF 300mm f2.8 that is definitely not well-balanced.but peaking is a joy with that lens. It's much easier to focus than on my D810, and sharp with the FTZ.

[SrMi]

I like the ergonomics quite a lot. I just picked mine up today, and have been testing with various lenses and under varous conditions.

My middle and ring fingers fall quite naturally onto the function buttons as I hold the camera (with my left hand largely supporting it under the lens). The combinaton of those with the dials for AF and WB settings works well for me, though I'm not sure I see the need for WB to be as accessible as that, so I may play with assigning that function to something else.

I need to find a buton to assign to Live View 1:1 magnification for manual focus lenses; the +/- buttons are in an awkward place to use with the viewfinder.

And as most every one has said, the the AF tracking controls are, at best, non-intuitive. I'm a long way from confident that I've got those understood yet.

Balance of the camera seems fine with everything I've got up through the 70-200 f2.8. And that lens autofocusses very well. I have a MF 300mm f2.8 that is definitely not well-balanced.but peaking is a joy with that lens. It's much easier to focus than on my D810, and sharp with the FTZ.

What do you use the OK button for? In my settings, it magnifies to 1:1 both in the review and record modes.
There is a lag in magnified view (about 200ms) that is causing some people a hard time to focus manually. Does it bother you as well? It does not bother me, but I'd rather have no lag.

[D Fuller]

What do you use the OK button for? In my settings, it magnifies to 1:1 both in the review and record modes.
There is a lag in magnified view (about 200ms) that is causing some people a hard time to focus manually. Does it bother you as well? It does not bother me, but I'd rather have no lag.

Not using OK for anything else yet, but it’s a little harder than I like to get my thumb there while focusing. I just reprogrammed F1 to 1:1, which is, I think, perfect. F1 gives me instant 1:1, F2 gives me AF modes. I don’t think I’ll mind getting to WB through the i menu, but I’ll see.

[SrMi]

Not using OK for anything else yet, but it’s a little harder than I like to get my thumb there while focusing. I just reprogrammed F1 to 1:1, which is, I think, perfect. F1 gives me instant 1:1, F2 gives me AF modes. I don’t think I’ll mind getting to WB through the i menu, but I’ll see.

You can also program the 'Movie Record button' to be the magnifier. I set Fn1 as Preview button.