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Author Topic: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 83089 times)

Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #160 on: July 21, 2018, 04:38:26 am »

i'm sure Canon and Nikon will both produce a far more ergonomic camera than Sony has managed to do.

I think "far more" is too much for an improvement here. While the A7 ergonomics are for sure improveable, I don't find them far more improveable. The grip is just fine enough for its size, and once you get rid of visiting the menus by configuring all main functions to specific buttons the camera is very joyable. I don't think it's perfect but it's far from bad.

My forecast is that Nikon will make the better overall mirrorless, Sony will keep best quality/price, and Canon will be best at nothing, as usual.

Regards
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 04:42:20 am by Guillermo Luijk »
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Alex Waugh

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #161 on: July 21, 2018, 09:36:55 am »

Look, I know this is an overdone topic already so let's not dwell but when I say "Sonys ergonomics are awful", I mean it. I have large hands and between the cheap feeling dials/buttons, small grip area between the lens mount and general shape I find it very, very uncomfortable to hold. I shot an A7ii for 18 months with and without the vertical grip - I honestly think the ergonomics are terrible. Perhaps a 3/10.

Obviously your mileage may vary, I'm only a sample size of one.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #162 on: July 21, 2018, 11:39:05 am »

Me too. But I recall an interview with a Sony executive. The interviewer asked him if they have plans to design a larger and more ergonomic body (I don't remember if this was after the sports camera A9 was launched), and the Sony executive answered that they had conducted market researchs that showed that the A7 size was the best trade off between camera ergonomics and size/weight. Maybe they were Japanese with shorter hands than western standards.

Regards


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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #163 on: July 21, 2018, 12:21:56 pm »

Hi,

I am mostly a tripod shooter...

In general, I see the camera as an imaging device.

Regarding the Sony menu system, I don't like it, but I have not seen a lot of menu systems I liked.

Best regards
Erik




Me too. But I recall an interview with a Sony executive. The interviewer asked him if they have plans to design a larger and more ergonomic body (I don't remember if this was after the sports camera A9 was launched), and the Sony executive answered that they had conducted market researchs that showed that the A7 size was the best trade off between camera ergonomics and size/weight. Maybe they were Japanese with shorter hands than western standards.

Regards


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Erik Kaffehr
 

SrMi

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #164 on: July 21, 2018, 01:43:36 pm »

I think "far more" is too much for an improvement here. While the A7 ergonomics are for sure improveable, I don't find them far more improveable. The grip is just fine enough for its size, and once you get rid of visiting the menus by configuring all main functions to specific buttons the camera is very joyable. I don't think it's perfect but it's far from bad.

My forecast is that Nikon will make the better overall mirrorless, Sony will keep best quality/price, and Canon will be best at nothing, as usual.

Regards

IMO: With A7RIII Sony improved ergonomics considerably. However, my Lumix G9 has much better ergonomics than my A7rIII. So, yes, I think it is possible to improve Sony's ergonomics "far more".
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #165 on: July 22, 2018, 12:23:32 pm »

May be...

But ergonomics make no pictures.  Sensors, cameras and lenses do...

Best regards
Erik

IMO: With A7RIII Sony improved ergonomics considerably. However, my Lumix G9 has much better ergonomics than my A7rIII. So, yes, I think it is possible to improve Sony's ergonomics "far more".
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Erik Kaffehr
 

KLaban

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #166 on: July 22, 2018, 12:28:14 pm »

May be...

But ergonomics make no pictures.  Sensors, cameras and lenses do...

Best regards
Erik

...I'd prefer to think that people do.

;-)
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Rory

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #167 on: July 22, 2018, 03:29:48 pm »

May be...

But ergonomics make no pictures.  Sensors, cameras and lenses do...

Best regards
Erik

Maybe for landscape photographers. 
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chez

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #168 on: July 22, 2018, 08:01:02 pm »

I feel this whole ergonomics thing is over blown. I use digital cameras made by Canon, Fuji and Sony and film cameras by Canon, Fuji and Tachihara and am productive with all of them. Sure, they are all a bit different, but once you figure out a camera and set it up to how you shoot, they all deliver.

Humans are very adaptable if we let them. For instance, I used to travel a lot for work and rent cars. Every car rented felt weird compared to my own...but after using the car for a couple weeks, things began to feel good...to the point when I got home and climbed into my own car, it feels weird at first.

I find it totally hilarious when we get into menus...for Christ sake, how much time do we spend in these menus...and if we spend more than a miniscule time in a menu while shooting...that system is totally screwed as when you are in a menu...you are not shooting.

The only reason I go into my Sony menus is to format a card...in other words, the system is customized to the point I don't need the menus when shooting.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #170 on: July 23, 2018, 03:27:12 am »

I feel this whole ergonomics thing is over blown. I use digital cameras made by Canon, Fuji and Sony and film cameras by Canon, Fuji and Tachihara and am productive with all of them. Sure, they are all a bit different, but once you figure out a camera and set it up to how you shoot, they all deliver.

Humans are very adaptable if we let them. For instance, I used to travel a lot for work and rent cars. Every car rented felt weird compared to my own...but after using the car for a couple weeks, things began to feel good...to the point when I got home and climbed into my own car, it feels weird at first.

I find it totally hilarious when we get into menus...for Christ sake, how much time do we spend in these menus...and if we spend more than a miniscule time in a menu while shooting...that system is totally screwed as when you are in a menu...you are not shooting.

The only reason I go into my Sony menus is to format a card...in other words, the system is customized to the point I don't need the menus when shooting.

Oh thank goodness. I thought it was just me. Something to do with hand holding a Linhof Super Technica and after that everything else felt easy.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #171 on: July 23, 2018, 03:41:05 am »

This is becoming exciting.

It seems that the rumors were right all along and that Nikon has chosen to differentiate themselves with the most future proof possible mount with the possibility to design unique lenses. I suspect that we may get lenses with perfectly circular out of focus highlights, uniquely bright lenses,...

In fact, it very much looks like this mount has the same size as that of the GFX and X1D bodies and Nikon may have kept the door open for larger sensors moving forward.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 03:50:23 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #172 on: July 23, 2018, 04:53:20 am »

Those prices are very interesting. Please Nikon, don't forget the IBIS and you have a customer prospect here...

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #173 on: July 23, 2018, 05:33:57 am »

Those prices are very interesting. Please Nikon, don't forget the IBIS and you have a customer prospect here...

Indeed, IBIS would be great to have.

Since VR does contribute to larger and heavier lenses and is also not easily made compatible with very bright glass, I am pretty confident that IBIS is part of this design. The ability to control sensor movement is also needed for the various types of super resolution solutions, so this is another reason why it should be included in a next gen line of camera.

I could be wrong of course. :-)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 05:50:48 am by BernardLanguillier »
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KLaban

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #174 on: July 23, 2018, 05:35:50 am »

Those prices are very interesting. Please Nikon, don't forget the IBIS and you have a customer prospect here...

Prices?
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #175 on: July 23, 2018, 05:47:09 am »

Prices?
Another price, this time from the UK (body only): 45MP about £2,400, 24MP about £1,700.

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/23/more-nikon-mirrorless-camera-rumors.aspx/

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32BT

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2018, 06:28:48 am »


In fact, it very much looks like this mount has the same size as that of the GFX and X1D bodies and Nikon may have kept the door open for larger sensors moving forward.

Cheers,
Bernard

Or the camera is really small!? ;-)
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #177 on: July 23, 2018, 06:33:57 am »

Or the camera is really small!? ;-)
Looking at the relative large size of the EVF this could be the case; for me that would be good news. Another question that arises is for the lower pixel count (24Mpx) whether Nikon chose a large DR sensor or best high ISO performance like in the D5.

Regards


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KLaban

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #178 on: July 23, 2018, 07:31:36 am »

Or the camera is really small!? ;-)

Hopefully.
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davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #179 on: July 23, 2018, 08:18:08 am »

Looking at the relative large size of the EVF this could be the case; for me that would be good news. Another question that arises is for the lower pixel count (24Mpx) whether Nikon chose a large DR sensor or best high ISO performance like in the

I expect something in the line of A7 III for that... really good ISO... up to market DR... no more than that, after all that will be the ďcheapĒ entry level camera. High innovative sensor for it will increase price. Basically anything they will put in a new D750...



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