Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018

[Martin Kristiansen]

What would you expect Martin?

As far as I am concerned, I could write the exact same post about Canon.

Those 2 companies have a very clear target (Sony) and need to differentiate themselves, meaning they need to offer something more than the current top mirrorless top player.

How do you think they are going to do it?

Cheers,
Bernard

It’s a fun game to play no doubt.

I have features I would like. Don’t really see them being mentioned much so I suppose it’s just me. Would love a diaphragm that slides in front of the sensor when a lens is removed. That large sensor out in the fresh air as it were when you change lenses gives me the creeps. Sony menus are downright humorous. Nikon can nail that, real low hanging fruit. IBIS is a must. I won’t buy another camera without it. I would hope for a camera no bigger than the Sony A7 range. Weather sealing. I have one camera with touch screen and one without. I’m indifferent to it. All the normal mirrorless stuff like silent shooting and so on. Lots of programmable buttons, love that stuff. Takes a while to set up and remember where everything is but once you have it it’s awesome. I don’t shoot very fast glass. Just not my style personally and For my commercial stuff no need for product photography to use very fast glass, so a range of lighter small lenses in the f4 range for zooms and f2.8 for primes. Lens range will be important for people of course. It seems everyone in South Africa that buys a decent camera has a fantasy of spending time in the many game reserves. So long lenses. I don’t care for it myself. I like visiting the reserves and try go once or twice a year but I don’t photograph animals unless they insist by doing something interesting close by.

I’m not a fan of the many dials that Fuji use, its personal of course but I don’t like it, keep it tidy. For the most part I trust Nikon to design and build cameras. They know what’s needed. My big questions are why so long with this and what will it cost?

[scooby70]

One thing I'd really love is some lenses built like the old pre AI's or Rokkors but specifically designed for the new mirrorless camera and mounting directly without an adapter.

I'd love to see parallel ranges of fairly compact primes with maybe a f1.4 range and a more compact f2 range. I wouldn't like these to be Sigma Art or Sony GM sized even though being smaller means they're not going to be Art/GM rivalling at f1.x or when pixel peeping, I'd settle for optically good enough and maybe a little characterful at the widest apertures.

Do that and I'd probably sell my A7.

As for all the fan boy dream team world beating wish lists... I'll believe it when I see it As for my little wish... sadly it won't happen either but would be a differentiator.

[Martin Kristiansen]

Two years ago my Canon gear was getting long in the tooth. I needed to buy a new body and a few lenses. I don’t change gear often but eventually stuff gets old. It’s even more unusual that body and lenses need replacing around the same time. It gave me the opportunity to reassess and switch systems if needed. I figured mirrorless was going to be the future and Sony dominates that so easy decision.

I cannot imagine Nikon coming up with anything that will make me a noticeably better more successful photographer. I have to be honest and admit my personal bottleneck is not my gear. If I can’t do it with what I have now I doubt the new Nikon will help.

[scooby70]

Two years ago my Canon gear was getting long in the tooth. I needed to buy a new body and a few lenses. I don’t change gear often but eventually stuff gets old. It’s even more unusual that body and lenses need replacing around the same time. It gave me the opportunity to reassess and switch systems if needed. I figured mirrorless was going to be the future and Sony dominates that so easy decision.

I cannot imagine Nikon coming up with anything that will make me a noticeably better more successful photographer. I have to be honest and admit my personal bottleneck is not my gear. If I can’t do it with what I have now I doubt the new Nikon will help.

And neither can I so for me it's all about enjoyment.

I can imagine others being excited by eye detect and I can see how that can be a game changer and doubtless there are other things which I don't even know about which people will find to be game changers too and good luck to them but that's just not me

[BernardLanguillier]

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-nikon-mirrorless-wish.html

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/03/first-set-of-rumored-specifications-for-the-nikon-mirrorless-cameras.aspx/

Looks like this could only be a few weeks away.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/04/nikon-mirrorless-camera-specs-recap.aspx/

Cheers,
Bernard

[Guillermo Luijk]

Fantastic news:
- 25-45 Mpx (no kids game like Nikon 1)
- New mount optimised for mirrorless designs (emphasis in allowing fast primes)
- IBIS!!!
- Great EVF
- 9fps
- Ergonomics

Canon, it's your turn.



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[Telecaster]

F mount adapter? I think they'll need one to grease the wheels of their existing user base.

-Dave-

[BernardLanguillier]

F mount adapter? I think they'll need one to grease the wheels of their existing user base.

This is also rumored, but I hope they have just focused on designing the very best mirrorless camera they can.

As a F mount user, I just want Nikon to apply to this camera the technical skills/mindset that has enabled them to come up with the best DSLRs and lenses these past 6-7 years. This is how they can help photography move forward.

My D850 and F lenses are still best in class, all I need to know is that Nikon is serious about delivering the best mirrorless solution. If not I’ll go the Sony route.

Somehow I don’t think Canon’s mgt has the guts it takes to deliver a FF mirrorless solution that isn’t mostly designed for their existing DSLRs customers as a complement to their line up. I hope I am wrong.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Guillermo Luijk]

Somehow I don’t think Canon’s mgt has the guts it takes to deliver a FF mirrorless solution that isn’t mostly designed for their existing DSLRs customers as a complement to their line up. I hope I am wrong.

I have the same feeling. Canon is the only brand which could build their 'new' mirrorless system by simply eliminating the mirror on their DSLR bodies, and SUCCEED!. Surprisingly I see Canon users demanding such a fearless solution.

Regards



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[Martin Kristiansen]

A few weeks back I was taking an old 50mm lens off a Minolta SRT 101. Had the camera since 1976. It’s a little thing compared to say the 1DX or Nikon 850. Has a mirror box just like the two DSLR’s and a prism, actually has a lovely viewfinder. I am using the lens on my Sony A7RII. The Sony is also little.

My point is why are the Canikons so huge. Can’t just be the mirror box or prism. The old Minolta has those, and the Sony has all the electronics. The A9 is not much different to the two DSLR’s in capability. Yet so much smaller. Why did DSLR’s get so bloated? How will Canikon manage to match Sony with it’s smaller form factor?

I was watching a press guy on Thursday using a Canon 1DX with a 50mm lens. It looked ridiculous. More like a hand help speed graphic than what was intended when the first 35mm cameras were launched.

[Telecaster]

My point is why are the Canikons so huge.

Marketing. In the '80s bigger became "better," and cameras gradually followed suit. Then spike driver autofocus bodies with long fat lenses became ubiquitous at sporting events, et voilà!

-Dave-

[Rado]

5D like size and ergonomics is exactly what I want from the Canon full frame mirrorless. It suits my hands perfectly. I also hope they keep the EF mount. From my point of view Canon has no reason to compete with Sony on size (if you want a small Canon mirrorless get the M series). I own a Sony A7II body and ergonomically it sucks.

[BernardLanguillier]

A few weeks back I was taking an old 50mm lens off a Minolta SRT 101. Had the camera since 1976. It’s a little thing compared to say the 1DX or Nikon 850. Has a mirror box just like the two DSLR’s and a prism, actually has a lovely viewfinder. I am using the lens on my Sony A7RII. The Sony is also little.

The D850 and 1DX are very different in size and weight.

I find the D850 to have a very manageable size and never found the a7/a9 totally comfortable. It may just be my hand.

I love the idea of being able to only carry an a7 sized device but I didn’t like the experience as much as I had hoped when I started photographing with it.

I believe that the focus on ergonomics highlighted in the current rumors about the upcoming Nikon mirrorless are about that. Many a7r users I know love the performance but are at best ok with the UI. It matters to most handheld shooters.

I used to shoot mostly landscape and found UI totally irrelevant but now that I have grown into different types of photography I must confess that my views about the importance of ergonomics has evolved.

Cheers,
Bernard

[SrMi]

For small sized cameras, I find Lumix G9 form and ergonomics close to ideal:

https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/panasonic-g9-vs-sony-a7r-iii

I wonder how will Nikon handle on-chip AF. They probably have to implement PDAF, but hopefully with cross-type sensors. It would be great/right if Nikon would give the user an option to always focus wide open instead of at working aperture.

[eronald]

A few weeks back I was taking an old 50mm lens off a Minolta SRT 101. Had the camera since 1976. It’s a little thing compared to say the 1DX or Nikon 850. Has a mirror box just like the two DSLR’s and a prism, actually has a lovely viewfinder. I am using the lens on my Sony A7RII. The Sony is also little.

My point is why are the Canikons so huge. Can’t just be the mirror box or prism. The old Minolta has those, and the Sony has all the electronics. The A9 is not much different to the two DSLR’s in capability. Yet so much smaller. Why did DSLR’s get so bloated? How will Canikon manage to match Sony with it’s smaller form factor?

I was watching a press guy on Thursday using a Canon 1DX with a 50mm lens. It looked ridiculous. More like a hand help speed graphic than what was intended when the first 35mm cameras were launched.

You're quite right.

On a dSLR you need the sensor card package behind the lens and then the LCD, and also a motor drive for the mirror and a complex folded optical path for AF.  The result is that a dSLR is always fatter than a bulky motor-driven AF SLR.

With mirrorless, the sensor gets displaced forward in the body, the AF optics and the motor drive disappear. That is why there is some hope that mirrorless bodies can be small, although the lenses still tend to be a bit overlarge with current marketing trends.

Edmund

[D Fuller]

You're quite right.

On a dSLR you need the sensor card package behind the lens and then the LCD, and also a motor drive for the mirror and a complex folded optical path for AF.  The result is that a dSLR is always fatter than a bulky motor-driven AF SLR.

With mirrorless, the sensor gets displaced forward in the body, the AF optics and the motor drive disappear. That is why there is some hope that mirrorless bodies can be small, although the lenses still tend to be a bit overlarge with current marketing trends.

Edmund

Don't forget about power and heat. DSLRs are doing a lot more energy-using stuff (processing and data transport) than SLRS ever did, so they need larger batteries. And all that processing and data transport produces heat, which needs enough mass to conduct the heat away from the sensor where it shows up as noise. As processing becomes more efficient, batteries and heat sinks can scale down, but only so much. Sony's earlier a7-series cameras had serious issues on both of those fronts--battery life and heat-realted shutdowns. That was maybe OK for the NEX-series cameras that were srtictly amateur stuff, but you can re-define your understanding of stress when a camera shuts down on a commmercial shoot because it overheated.

[D Fuller]

The D850 and 1DX are very different in size and weight.

I find the D850 to have a very manageable size and never found the a7/a9 confortable.

I love the idea of being able to only carry an a7 sized device but I dislike the experience the moment I start photographying with it.

Cheers,
Bernard

I hope Nikon has taken a good look at the Leica SL. The competitive target may be Sony, but there might be more to learn from Leica.

I think a lot of the problems I have with Sony a7 ergonomics stem from the fact that it's just doing too much all the time. I mean there are 107 different autofocus modes and 84 different autoexposure modes, and picture styles for all your Instagram needs, and on and on. There are buttons scattered all over the tiny body that I've never been able to train my fingers to find quickly, and the viewfinder has so many icons to show me all the things its doing that I can forget to look at the subject in front of me.

I've owned two of the Sonys at a time for three years now, and that's still all true for me. I took advantage of Leica's "Test -drive and SL" promotion and found myself comfortable with the fout (unlabeled) buttons in a weekend. And that dedicated button that changes the viewfinder from the EVF to the screen? Pure genius.

I hope Nikon, who has the heritage of great rangefinder cameras and the F3, as well as the D5 and D850, develops a mirrorless that gets out of the way and lets me take pictures. Leica's idea of programmable buttons in places easily found by your fingers is a good one. A button dedicated to the viewfinder is brilliant. A quiet shutter (like a rangefinder), in additon to silent, is a good thing.

Lenses have to be great. They just do. But do they have to be f/1.4? or would a great f/1.8 lens that was smaller work? Autofocus lenses and fast lenses seem to have to be big. Manual lenses can be smaller. Is that OK? I'm not sure. I've been eyeing the Loxia lenses for my Sony. But I've also been looking hard at the Leica SL, because the lenses are great, and I still can't get in love with the Sony.

I would buy the Nikon mirrorless as an addition to my Nikon DSLR, not to replace it. It's going to occupy a different niche (or at least I hope it does). I don't see it replacing the D850 any more than the D850 replaces the D5. Sure, vor some people, the D850 is good enough for sports, but if that's your livelihood, the D5 is your camera.

I really hope Nikon has as clear an idea behind this camera as they do the D5. If they do, it'll be brilliant.

[BernardLanguillier]

I would buy the Nikon mirrorless as an addition to my Nikon DSLR, not to replace it. It's going to occupy a different niche (or at least I hope it does). I don't see it replacing the D850 any more than the D850 replaces the D5. Sure, vor some people, the D850 is good enough for sports, but if that's your livelihood, the D5 is your camera.

I really hope Nikon has as clear an idea behind this camera as they do the D5. If they do, it'll be brilliant.

Indeed! We'll probably know in less than a month if the rumors are true.

Cheers,
Bernard