Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 16   Go Down

Author Topic: Re: Trump II  (Read 6963 times)

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13190
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Trump II
« Reply #100 on: June 06, 2017, 08:35:13 am »

Arguing about percentages leads to misunderstandings, Phil, but only five of 28 NATO countries are ponying up the 2% of GDP they agreed to spend on defense. As Casey said, "You could look it up."

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1595
Re: Trump II
« Reply #101 on: June 06, 2017, 04:12:24 pm »

Don't be fooled, Trump may well get the same treatment. Millwall awaits

Quote
Roy Larner has already been hailed a hero, with a petition launched for him to be awarded the George Cross medal for his actions in the Black and Blue steakhouse on Saturday night.

In fighting back, the 47-year-old Millwall fan gave dozens of others who were in the Borough Market restaurant the chance to escape.

Now out of the intensive care ward of St Thomas’ Hospital, where he was treated for knife wounds all over his body including his neck, the father-of-one has told The Sun how he reacted when the killers burst into the restaurant shouting “Islam, Islam” and “This is for Allah”.

“Like an idiot, I shouted back at them. I thought, ‘I need to take the p*** out of these b******s’.”

“I took a few steps towards them and said, ‘F*** you, I’m Millwall’. So they started attacking me.” Mr Larner added: “I stood in front of them trying to fight them off. Everyone else ran to the back. I was on my own against all three of them, that’s why I got hurt so much. It was just me, trying to grab them with my bare hands and hold on. I was swinging.  I got stabbed and sliced eight times. They got me in my head, chest and both hands. There was blood everywhere.

“They were saying, ‘Islam, Islam!’. I said again, ‘F*** you, I’m Millwall!’

FYI, dear Americans, Millwall supporters are notorious for being capable of the worst football violence seen ...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 04:20:56 pm by Manoli »
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2017, 07:45:43 am »

Regarding this whole Russia and Comey thing, I think my mother, who was (and still is) anti-Trump and pro-Hillary, said it best, "who really cares?  Now I have to put up with this 24/7." 

I think what the diehards here don't get is that most of America does not care, and this whole circus yet again shows how out of touch the self-appointed "elites" and those in the beltway are with the rest of the country. 

Out of all of the articles on CNN there was only really one I was concerned enough about to read yesterday, and the only one that would actually have an effect on the country, the one about the repeal of Dodd-Frank, which should be repealed.  All the rest was nothing but banter. 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 08:13:38 am by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2017, 08:46:12 am »

Maybe the rest of America doesn't care about that either?

Cheers,
Bart

Sadly, I think that is the case. 
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2017, 12:07:10 pm »

...

Come on, Slobo, I think you are deliberately misleading this forum with that post.  Show me an example of a dead man's skeleton saying those words. 
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2017, 01:24:29 pm »

Meet Achmed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc

He may not have said those words, but then "what does it mean when he speaks words?".

Cheers,
Bart

I stand corrected!   ;D
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2017, 05:45:23 pm »

Again I really don't know...but I sure wouldn't be surprised to find out that there's no proof he himself colluded with the Russians. But I'm convinced Russia sure did try and succeeded in interfering with our election and that Trump would not have won if they didn't. I wonder why Trump clings to his claim it's fake news and thinks it's a conspiracy by the democrats to explain why they lost.

I also believe that there is something very weird about his love of Putin...it defies logic. Everybody else in the weatern world knows they are our enemy.

Jeff, stop kidding yourself.  Hillary ran an absolutely horrible campaign!  Every single possible interview and article written on the subject, even those with interviews from staffers, points to the same exact thing. 

She sucks at running for office. 

Yes, her husband coattails' won her the NY state representation, but nothing more. 

That is the reason she lost. 

She had absolutely no idea how to run a campaign. 

My favorite quote of recent is Hillary saying that the only reason Obama won was because he was an "ATTRACTIVE, GOOD-LOOKING MAN.”  That was her exact quote on the subject.  He did not win because, you know, he knew how to run a campaign, and how to get a conservative like me to vote for him in 2008.  (For the record, in 2012 I would have voted Romney if my alternator did not die on the way to the voting booth.) 

That says it all; that clearly reinforces Colin Powell now infamous quote, "she 'screws up' everything she touches thanks to overwhelming personal hubris."  She lost it; nothing else. 

Now insofar as Putin being our enemy, you Dems surely did not think so back in 2008 and certainly not back in 2012.  You know, the 1980s really wanted its foreign policy back in 2012. 

Interesting how things have changed. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 05:55:27 pm by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2017, 06:35:43 pm »

Yep, no question and in spite of that, but I seriously think she still would have squeaked out a win if the DNC wasn't hacked and the drip drip drip of Podesta's emails didn't steal the media's attention. Oh, and that last Comey cockup...

Heck, everybody including the Russians and Trump himself thought she was going to win.

:~)

Keep on telling yourself that Jeff. 

You guys really are delusional.  She lost because of Russia, or was because the USA as a whole is misogynistic, oh wait, it is because we are all racist. 

It is surely not because HRC forgot where WI and MI were, or anywhere in PA outside Philly, or that she would not own up to the email scandal, making a non-issue an issue, and, when she did finally own up she somehow lost 30K+ emails, but not to worry, they were of no concern anyway, or not because she could not fill a single venue whereas Trump sold out almost every one, or that she would not release her speeches, making her sound like an elitist, or that she almost never had press conferences, and when she did, only answered scripted questions, or that she had her paid informants pass her debate questions beforehand ... the list just goes on and on. 

You know, I am really glad she is now giving interviews with unscripted questions, we are finally discovering what type of person she really is.  Trump is an ass, but at least we knew that during the campaign; we knew nothing of Hillary. 

It turns out Hillary is a narcissist so filled with hubris she can never accept responsibility for anything that went wrong.  And the interesting thing, your party just keeps her around.  No one, save Biden, has told her to shut up and go home.   

By the way, did you read the few articles after the election that clearly showed conservatives would either hang up on pollsters or lie about whom they were voting for just to skew the polls. 

Yep, keep on pushing that Russia thing, because you know, after 8 or 9 months of investigating, nothing has been found yet.  How long did it take for evidence to be found on Nixon? 

Just keep on pushing it, because it will only help my side in 2018. 

You Dems are looking more and more like sore losers as each day goes by, and nobody, especially the voting public, likes sore losers. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 06:52:07 pm by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2017, 08:25:03 pm »

Well, the DNC was broken into June 17, 1972.

March 17, 1973: Watergate burglar McCord writes a letter to Judge John Sirica, claiming that some of his testimony was perjured under pressure and that the burglary was not a CIA operation, but had involved other government officials, thereby leading the investigation to the White House.

May 19, 1973: Independent special prosecutor Archibald Cox appointed to oversee investigation into possible presidential impropriety.

July 23, 1973: Nixon refuses to turn over presidential tapes to Senate Watergate Committee or the special prosecutor.

October 20, 1973: "Saturday Night Massacre" - Nixon orders Elliot Richardson and Ruckleshouse to fire special prosecutor Cox. They both refuse to comply and resign. Robert Bork considers resigning but carries out the order.

November 17, 1973: Nixon delivers "I am not a crook" speech at a televised press conference at Disney World (Florida).

April 16, 1974: Special Prosecutor Jaworski issues a subpoena for 64 White House tapes.

June 15, 1974: Woodward and Bernstein's book All the President's Men is published by Simon & Schuster (ISBN 0-671-21781-X).

July 24, 1974: United States v. Nixon decided: Nixon is ordered to give up tapes to investigators.

May 9, 1974: Impeachment hearings begin before the House Judiciary Committee.

July 27 to July 30, 1974: House Judiciary Committee passes Articles of Impeachment.

August 9, 1974 Nixon resigned the presidency.

In case you don't remember the time line, Timeline of the Watergate scandal.

So, it didn't happen over nite.

Thanks Jeff, thanks for the history.  I'm being sincere; I really did not know the timeline of the Nixon impeachment. 

Now can you address the other points I made. 
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2017, 08:02:01 am »

What other points?  Are you suggesting that Comey's last minute revelations had zero effect on the electorate?

That some number of individuals didn't view HRC's competencies differently because of her sex?

That the asymmetric release of private documents via Wikileaks didn't sway a single vote? 

Help me out, please, because while most reasonable people agree she ran a horrid campaign, I'm quite certain that you can't be making an argument on the relative merits of the two candidates actual qualifications for the office. :)

Absolutely Comey's last minute revelation had no effect; her email scandal was already baked into the cake by that point.  (I will contest Comey's press conference in the summer did have an effect though.)  She horribly mishandled the whole thing.  She broke the law, willingly or not, regardless if past precedent existed, so she was in the wrong.  If she had accepted responsibility in the beginning, the thing would have blown over before the primaries ended, especially considering Colin Powell did a similar act.  The country would have moved on. 

She made a non-issue an issue, and that is the main thing that cost her the election.  It was her fault. 

Not to mention all of the other things she did, like not visit WI or MI not even once during the campaign.  Or the air of elitism she throw around with the notion that we don't need the vote of the common person to win.  Or her unwillingness to give press conferences and answer unscripted questions (will the real Hillary please stand up, please stand up).  Or ... the list goes on and on.

Now since you brought it up, are there some men who are misogynistic and look down on women, yes.  Just like there are some women who are misandristic and look down on men.  However, the amount of those are hardly large enough to sway an election in today's world, not to mention, considering the candidates were of opposite gender, the misogynists and misandrists more then likely canceled each other's effect anyway. 

Insofar as wikileaks, I remember there being much more damning press stories released about Trump.  So the notion that the Wikileaks were responsible is preposterous as well. 

Oh look, Trump is talking about randomly grabbing women's crotches, but wait ... Hillary's campaign manager, look at what he is saying in those emails, oh boy, it's so much worse. 

Sure  ::), Podesta's emails had a much bigger effect on public opinion then Trump's press stories.  Keep telling yourself that. 

Last, do I think it came down to merits?  Don't make me laugh; I can't think of two worse candidates.  And by that I mean, each out does every bad candidate that has ran for president in my lifetime.  The whole time leading up to the primaries, I was hoping the Rep would out Trump and nominate Paul Ryan. 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 10:56:44 am by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1595
Re: Trump II
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2017, 09:53:46 am »

13:43
Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.

Note to Donald: It's gonna be a long wait ...
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #111 on: June 14, 2017, 09:42:10 am »

Are you disputing the Russians took an active role in meddling in the election? So, the story I mentioned was that the Russians were also attempting ago actively hack voter roles and the actual voting machines and that Obama had to threaten the Russians if they kept up the attempts to hack the voting machines...But, I guess that's ok with you huh?

You think the Russians are such good guys?

(actually I know some Russians and they are good guys but they don't work for Putin as far as I know)

You happy about what the Russians did to our election? Or do you just not believe it? That Hillary lost the election to Trump only because she was a bad candidate?

Yeah, Putin's a happy, happy guy theses days, he has the GOP actually defending the Russians saying they didn't throw the election, Hillary did...

No!  She lost because she was a bad candidate and ran a very very horrible campaign.  (Are you reading those interviews and articles, or do you only concern yourself with Russia nowadays?) 

Those are the reasons she lost. 

By the way, the 1980s really wants it foreign policy back. 
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #112 on: June 14, 2017, 03:46:27 pm »

You decide:

"Despite being remembered today as "The Great Emancipator," Lincoln maintained a moderate stance on the emancipation of slaves, never vowing in his campaigns to abolish slavery, as it was vital to the southern economy. He even stated in his presidential inaugural address that he would not use his executive power to interfere with the institution in any state where it existed. Still, Lincoln vehemently opposed the expansion of slavery into new western territories and served as one of the most influential advocates of "free soil." For this reason, the president posed a significant threat to the economic and political interests of the slaveholding South. Thus, in response to his 1860 election victory, seven southern states seceded from the Union. Lincoln was determined to prevent disunion by any means necessary, but his attempts at negotiation failed miserably; within the first months of his tenure, the divided nation was engaged in a full-blown Civil War."
http://www.shmoop.com/causes-of-civil-war/abraham-lincoln.html

Alan, you need to study history more. 

After Lincoln's election, however prior to his inauguration, more then half of the South succeeded.  There is nothing he could have done to prevent this since he was not in power yet. 

Also, the war was not a fault of Lincoln, but more likely a fault of John Brown's failed revolt, which happened prior to Lincoln's presidency.  John Brown taught the South one thing, that the North was serious, and, being such, the South massively increased their militia, which was an absolute joke beforehand.  So, when it came time for succession, the South was very well prepared. 

The gears started moving before Lincoln even came into the picture; civil war was inevitable. 

Throw on top of this, most Americans at the time thought of themselves as citizens of their state first, and country second. Remember, it was "The United States Are" before the war, and then it became "The United States Is" after.  This caused Robert E. Lee, who was against succession and slavery very much so, and arguably the absolute best commanding officer in the army at the time, to fight for the South because he felt his allegiance was to his state, VA, which ended up succeeding. 

Although the military machine of the North was far superior, the South's military leadership trumped all the north had.  Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Nathan Bedford Forest outed every singe general of the north, with significantly smaller forces, up until 1864 when Lincoln finally appointed Grant lieutenant general. 

Even so, Lee was still a better general then Grant, but Grant and Sherman were good enough where the superior numbers of the North finally kicked in. 

If not for John Brown and Robert E. Lee resigning from the Union Army, the war would have lasted no more then 6 months. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 03:56:55 pm by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #113 on: June 15, 2017, 06:33:53 pm »

Lee made numerous military mistakes during the course of the war.  Had McClellan been a better general the war could have ended in 1863 when he launched the peninsula campaign.  The Confederate generals in the western campaigns were all horrible and made numerous strategic blunders and once Grant had captured all the key spots it was pretty much over.

Best book to read is "A Savage War" by Williamson Murray and Wayne Wei-Siang Hsieh.  Covers all the battles, tactics and personalities in depth.

You could argue that it went back to the Constitutional Convention.  They assumed slavery would die out, and it was, so they did not address it.  Then Eli Whitney screwed the pooch on that one. 

My point on John Brown was that without his failed revolt, the South would have never been able to form an army fast enough.  But his revolt caused the militias of the south to really ramp up.  John Brown was probably the single most biggest catalyst for the war. 

I certainly agree with the South's generals in the West were petty bad, plus they were up against Grant, since that is where he was positioned.  But overall, it surely did not seem to matter who they went up against; they lost repeatably. 

I was thinking more about the main part of the country, at the time; thanks for pointing out the west was not too great for the South. 

However, I do not think Lee made that many mistakes.  Pickett's Charge was certainly a big mistake, and did not help him with Gettysburg, but I can't think of any other game changers. 

With that being said, McClellan was an absolute coward.  He was really great at training an army, which certainly helped Grant later on, but he made excuse after excuse not to go into battle. 

Had he just a little grit, the war would have certainly ended before Lee was made general. 

I may have to look up that book. 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 06:57:38 pm by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1595
Re: Trump II
« Reply #114 on: June 15, 2017, 08:01:45 pm »

All I want to know is who are the over 80K folks viewing this discussion on LuLa?

It can't be all photographers. Is it students? How can a topic on Trump among all the 100's of others online with this one buried on a photographer's site's off topic forum get this much attention?

It's averaging 23 views per post - which means virtually no attention, other than to those posting here  :D
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #115 on: June 15, 2017, 09:44:21 pm »

The South left during Lincoln's interregnum because they knew what his policies would be.  Regardless, Lincoln could have left the South go or at least wait and see if he could work something out with them to get them back into the foal.  Instead he sent a naval force to Ft Sumter and the South attacked claiming they were defending themselves.  Whatever you want to believe.  The point is what was his rush?

In any case, we're getting away from my original point about mandates.  Lincoln only won with 40% of the popular vote. That's the least by any president in America history. His minority Republican party only won because the majority Democrats were split between the northern Democrats and Southern Democrats.  Yet, he felt his 40% was mandate enough to try to force the southern states to do what they didn't want to do and a civil war started.  No one talks about his mandate today.  He is proclaimed an America icon.  Now I'm not comparing Trump to Lincoln.  So let me make that point right away.  Yet, here some are trying to say Trump's 46% popular and 57% majority electoral vote (higher than Kennedy's, Clinton's and Carter's and others) is not enough for the president to do his rather mild campaign promises.  Well, he is certainly entitled to do it constitutionally, plus anything he does improperly is defended by our constitution.  I just wanted to put to rest the president's right to fulfill his views and not feel obligated to fulfill his opposition's platform.  She lost.

Alan, I agree with you on the mandate with Trump and that the Dems are just making up stuff to try and weaken his presidency, but history is history. 

Fort Sumter was an offensive attacked by the South that Lincoln did not provoke.  Lincoln only sent provisions; he sent no troops, arms or animation and announced this publicly and to the governor of SC prior to any ships being sent.  The South saw their opportunity and took it.  (Not to mention, the leading commander of Fort Sumter taught at West Point, and one of his best armory students was the person who lead the attack against him.  His student knew all that the teacher had to offer, and I am sure wanted to prove it.) 

Also, let us not also forget that nearly everyone thought of the South's succession as only temporary and that no bloodshed would be had.  A sitting senator said that you could clean up all of the blood spilt with a single pocket handkerchief at the onset of the war.  Those like Sherman, who knew it would be a very bloody battle, were ostracized to the point of insanity. 

This being said, how could Lincoln have not sent provisions?  How could have Lincoln prevented the war without allowing the South to succeed? 

The war was inevitable.  Nothing done in the 1860s, even the 1850s, could have prevented it. 

Also, no blood was shed at Fort Sumter.  It was not until Bull Run (personally I prefer Manassas even though I'm not southern, the name has more flare), about six month later, that blood was actually spilled.  So doing nothing would have been kind of weird and cowardly. 

I have to wonder where does your 40% vote come from?  Lincoln was not even on the ballots of most of the Southern states.  If he was, if those in the South who against succession were for able to vote for Lincoln, what would his number have been? 

Anyway, I've got work to do, images to raw process, a cigar to enjoy, rum to be had and True Grit to watch. 

No, not the original; this is a rare case where I think the remake out does the original, and by a great deal at that.  Maybe because I love cinematic lighting and Roger Deakins is one of the best DPs there has ever been. 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 09:53:43 pm by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #116 on: June 18, 2017, 12:51:21 pm »

Well up until now, as a fiscal conservative, I have been somewhat pleased with some financial policies, but indifferent towards most anything else. 

However, Trump's rollback on Cuba is indefensible, and nothing more then a ploy to garner political points amongst a very small percentage of the population. 

I have been to Cuba, and I very much want to go back.  More then likely I can now qualify as a journalist since I am a full time photographer.  Most though will not have that luxury. 

In an effort to stop moneys from going to the military, which I would support, the ban on individual people-to-people travel will do nothing more then increase the military's influence over the economy.  The private sector in Cuba has grown fairly rapidly to 40%, largely due to American tourism.  A big plus for free market ideals, capitalism, improvements in living conditions, and a step closer to free elections, much like Nixon's opening of China did. 

This policy will do nothing more then cause the free market to contract, the military's power to increase and lower the quality of life.  And, of course, their leaders will use this as propaganda. 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 01:35:39 pm by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #117 on: June 19, 2017, 07:15:31 am »

Joe, he's keeping his campaign promise regarding Cuba.  That small group helped him win Florida and the election.  Also, there's nothing stopping Castro from doing a few good things like returning murderer Chesimard back to the US.  How about if he actually gave some freedom to the Cuban people before we give back to some of the giveaways Obama did.  Obama just gave them away without anything in return for the Cuban people or us.  Of course, Raul might not now trade these things.  But, he certainly won't do them if we let these giveaways stand.   

Sorry Alan, I don't buy it.

We are for freedom and free markets and this move does nothing buts hurts the Cuban people and free markets.  When I was there in January, I saw the beginnings of a thriving free market, very much brought on by American tourism.  This free market certainly undermines the government since it so successful, and the best way to chip away at the regime. 

Now it will contract due to this move. 

I could support restrictions on Americans dealing with military run businesses, but cutting off Cuba to Americans will only hurt the Cuban people and increase the Regime's control. 

Also, this is not a split issue like most things.  75% of the country want better relations with Cuba and the ability to visit.  Not to mention we have 54+ years of experience with the embargo, and guess what, it has done nothing. 

Absolutely nothing! 

This is a decision based on no logic, but on the emotions of a small group of people in FL. 

Not to mention we deal with countries that have much worse human rights records.  We, rightly so, don't tell them how to govern.  We should have no business lecturing Cuba either. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 07:33:36 am by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #118 on: June 19, 2017, 11:59:10 am »

Just to reiterate, Trump was doing what he promised his Cuban supporters.  It doesn't matter what others think,  It may or may not be a good or bad idea.  But if he didn't reverse Obama's action, people would just say "See, he even lies to his own supporters.  You just can't trust Trump."   

 But also, we tell a lot of other countries how they should govern.  Your argument we don't doesn't comport with what we actually do all the time.  Russia, Iran, North Korea as well as Cuba.  These all have  embargoes.  To blame America not trading with Cuba for their dictatorship isn't true.  Cuba has been trading with Canada, Europe etc.  Visitors from those countries have been going there for decades with no effect on Castro's control of the Cubans and hardly any economic advantage to the people.  I see the pictures of the 60 year old cars and decrepit old buildings.  They may make interesting photos for us photographers, but it just shows how Castro and Communism has held back a country and its people.  Most of the profits from tourism and trade goes to the Castro family, the military and his close associates who rule the roost.  The people get crap and will continue to get crap while Castro's and friends just get richer and secure their future control over the country.     The only difference between North Korea and Cuba is that Cuba is warm and has nice beaches.

You could not be more wrong considering the current estate of affairs. 

First, how is that wall coming along?  I was for Trump getting in, mainly due to his fiscal policy, and I could not be happier that his wall idea is failing.  I think the general electorate is a much bigger portion of the population then those whom would like us to return to a 54+ year policy of nothing but failure. 

Second, perhaps we do tell other countries how to govern, but we don't forbade citizens from going to any of them other then Cuba, even those with worse human rights violations.  Why is Cuba so special?  Also, why do we have the right to instruct others how to conduct themselves within their own country? 

Third, lets get serious on tourism; they have not be open for decades.  Tourism really only started to be accepted as a way to produce income after the USSR stopped being their cash cow, and it took a while for it to catch on.  So yes, everyone else has been visiting them for a while, but not in droves like you are implying. 

Also, no one spends more then Americans tourists, nor is any country closer (3 1/2 hour flight from Newark), so allowing Americans to tour the country is a huge plus for the hospitality industry, both private and public.  Americans will be more likely to visit and bring more money when they do then any other tourists.

Now I would be all for not allowing Americans to stay in military run hotels, since that would mean the moneys would go directly to the Cubans.  You could also forbade Americans from shopping in military run shops and restaurants, although that would be impossible to enforce. 

But forbidding all Americans from going will only take away from the Cuban people and the free market that is finally starting to flourish after 50 years. 

Third, when Raul Castro took over the country in 2012, he implemented many capitalistic reforms (which is interesting since it was he that was the communist, Fidel just wanted to get rid of Batista).  Of course, it took a little while for Cubans to start doing their own thing, but these reforms combined with Americans visiting have brought a great deal of wealth to the island, much of which is going to the average Cuban, not just the Castros. 

Your vision of what is going on in Cuba is nowhere near the reality of the situation. 

We should be embracing the Cuban people and preparing for Raul's retiring next February.  Making good with the new leader early will be the best chance we have of helping the Cuban people by influencing policy. 

This move is only going to make his successor more skeptical of us and help continue the same ideals of the past. 

Insofar as those in Miami, get over it!  At a certain time, one should cut their losses. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 12:08:29 pm by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2279
Re: Trump II
« Reply #119 on: June 19, 2017, 12:21:38 pm »

And that's the problem. It worked with postwar Germany and Japan, but it failed miserably in Iraq, Afghanistan, and a few other countries.
You can't tell Russia how to run their country. American system just wouldn't work there.

I saw a really good interview a couple years ago, can't remember with who, that spoke about how the end of WW2 was a complete fluke.  Wars never end with countries making good with each and living in pease there after.  It just does not happen. 

Unfortunately, we in the USA live with this idea that wars can end that way always.  This is of a great detriment to us; look at the middle east.  We keep on spending money and resources thinking we can make pease and democracy work. 

It won't, and we have no right to try and make it work. 
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 16   Go Up