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Author Topic: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability  (Read 16698 times)

drralph

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Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« on: February 03, 2017, 03:09:36 pm »

I am exploring alternative printing media, and want to experiment with Kozo.  I have not sound a source for this paper.  A thread from last year started by Gary Wornell, who developed the paper, had a link to a supplier.  But they no longer carry the product.  Any leads?

howardm

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 03:22:04 pm »

I got a 17" roll from Amazon UK.

I've used very very little of it and since I live about 20m from you, maybe we can work something out.

Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 08:05:49 pm »

Moab and Awagami Factory ("AWA I.J.P") make Kozo papers and they are available.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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donbga

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 08:53:25 am »

I am exploring alternative printing media, and want to experiment with Kozo.  I have not sound a source for this paper.  A thread from last year started by Gary Wornell, who developed the paper, had a link to a supplier.  But they no longer carry the product.  Any leads?

In the US Freestyle photo carries Awagami papers.

Freestyle

You can see the Moab offering here:

Moab Moenkopi

Here is a 'propaganda' video made by the factory:

Awagami washi

Personally, I would like to see some examples before purchasing.

Be prepared to empty your purse, these papers aren't inexpensive.

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 09:20:34 am »

Actually, I'm now in the process of evaluating these papers (along with some others) and preparing a review. It will be a while till publication. Stay tuned.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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JayWPage

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 08:31:31 pm »

I have bought a package of the Moab Moenkopi Kozo from B&H and am now starting to think about how I might go about printing with it. Any suggestions/comments about paper profiles would be appreciated. I use an Epson 3880 and usually print using Imageprint.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 09:06:46 pm »

Doesn't ImagePrint have profiles for it?
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JayWPage

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 09:39:03 pm »

Imageprint has 3 Awagami Kozo profiles, but there isn't a Kozo profile are listed under Moab. I'm not sure which of the Awagami profiles is the best to use for the product that Moab is selling, maybe the Kozo Natural? Given the price of this paper, I rather not waste very much of it trying out profiles if someone knows which is the best profile to use.  I emailed Moab (this weekend) about which Imageprint profile might be the best one to use, but I haven't heard back from them yet.

It's also been be reported that the profile for Canson Rag Photographique produces OK results.

In any case, I will be interested in reading about your experiences with this paper when you post your review.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 09:44:49 pm »

Imageprint has 3 Awagami Kozo profiles, but there isn't a Kozo profile are listed under Moab. I'm not sure which of the Awagami profiles is the best to use for the product that Moab is selling, maybe the Kozo Natural? Given the price of this paper, I rather not waste very much of it trying out profiles if someone knows which is the best profile to use.  I emailed Moab (this weekend) about which Imageprint profile might be the best one to use, but I haven't heard back from them yet.

It's also been be reported that the profile for Canson Rag Photographique produces OK results.

In any case, I will be interested in reading about your experiences with this paper when you post your review.

Thanks Jay, it will be a while but the work is in progress. The Awagami Kozo and the Moab Kozo papers I'm told are the same paper - the Moab Kozo is made in the Awagami IJP plant. Moab itself has a profile available for its Kozo paper/Epson 3880 here: http://moabpaper.com/icc-profiles-downloads/. Have you tried that one?
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 04:23:51 am »

I am exploring alternative printing media, and want to experiment with Kozo.  I have not sound a source for this paper.  A thread from last year started by Gary Wornell, who developed the paper, had a link to a supplier.  But they no longer carry the product.  Any leads?

To add another manufacturer of oriental inkjet papers, Mitsubishi makes some Kenaf qualities distributed with the Pictorico label.

http://www.mitsubishiimaging.com/pictorico-fine-art.html


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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howardm

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 08:06:37 am »

I'm 99% sure I made a  3880/Epson Kozo custom profile.  I'll verify and post a link

dgberg

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 09:34:09 am »

The Epson Kozo profile is still available.

JayWPage

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2017, 11:51:54 am »

I've just received an email from ImagePrint; the Moab Moenkopi Kozo paper is the same as the Awagami Kozo White paper and so that is the profile to use.
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deanwork

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2017, 06:34:13 pm »

Moab just rebrands a couple of the Awagami surfaces and gives them a funny Indian name. I just order the Awagami from Freestyle.

The Moab people do have profiles on their website that work with the Awagami as well. I made my own but theirs are pretty good.

Awagami makes a thin version that you can peel the back off of like the Epson. It is really nice. I've used it. It can be ordered in a 44" roll.

  http://www.freestylephoto.biz/213551500-Awagami-Kozo-Double-Layered-Inkjet-Paper-90gsm-44-in.-x-49-ft.-Roll

john





I've just received an email from ImagePrint; the Moab Moenkopi Kozo paper is the same as the Awagami Kozo White paper and so that is the profile to use.
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_BillJackson_

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Kozo archival?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2017, 12:16:41 pm »

I've had great success with Epson's Kozo, but I need something to say to buyers about its archival nature.  Does anyone know the story here?

Thanks,
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dgberg

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2017, 07:28:59 pm »

Nothing really specific.
From Gary himself..

Jim, This paper is a Signature Worthy paper and when used with Epson K3 Ultrachrome inkset has an archival life equivalent to all the papers in that range. What's more is that the paper has amazing abrasion resistance, deep blacks and a heavenly surface unlike any other paper on the market. I have worked with a cabinet maker now in Finland for the last 2 years making Japanese Screen type applications and these have been laminated with paper side out onto polycarbonate allowing the light to pass through as if there was no firm support. It also makes for beautiful lamps as can be seen on the Facebook page: http://tinyurl.com/kvceclc
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 07:33:17 pm by Dan Berg »
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MHMG

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2017, 08:19:00 pm »

Nothing really specific.
From Gary himself..

Jim, This paper is a Signature Worthy paper and when used with Epson K3 Ultrachrome inkset has an archival life equivalent to all the papers in that range.

Except that papers currently in the Epson "Signature Worthy" line vary widely in print permanence, Epson Exhibition Fiber paper, for example, being exceptionally "unsignature worthy" due to very poor media whitepoint stability over time. Not to disparage the Kozo paper, it's a very intriguing material, but without hard test results backing up any claims of "archival" properties compared to other papers when used in combination with various respective ink sets, it's purely conjectural to comment on long term print permanence properties of the Kozo paper.  Aardenburg Imaging & Archives has not tested it, and there seems to be no data on the Wilhelm Imaging Research website, either. Image Permanence Institute? No. Even Epson's own marketing claims?  In summary, I haven't run across any information on the Kozo paper regarding lightfastness, thermal and/or humidity fastness, gas fade resistance, etc. As such, we can all hope for the best or just ignore the issue entirely, but there's no hard data to support anyone's opinion at this time, AFAIK.

kind regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 08:49:32 pm by MHMG »
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 07:02:15 am »

I've used rice papers for over 40 years in paintings, for Shoji screens, for lamps, light diffusers, and other varried uses.  The paper is strong yet fragile. To place concern on longevity is iffy, at best, since the thinness and lightness of the paper makes it extremely vulnerable.  Lightfastness only applies if it physically lasts that long.  The issue becomes more about its strength as a substrate.
Traditionally, Japanese rice papers used in functional situations, ie,lamps, screens, etc., were expected to be occasionally replaced due to the rigors of daily life, and how easy they could be damaged.

Framed prints, behind glass - that's another story.  I have the Epson Kozo, have made custom profiles for it for Z33200ps, and it's nice, but in comparison to Japanese rice papers I've used, it is unremarkable.

The papers John Dean suggests (which I have also used thanks to his generosity sending me samples) are preferable IMO.

There are certain kinds of images that work on Kozo, and many that just don't.  Definitely a specialty paper, well suited for particular purposes.


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deanwork

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2017, 10:13:48 am »

"Signature Worthy", that's so funny. Whenever I hear that word I hold on to my wallet. It cracks me up how the Epson sales mythology has become part of the vocabulary of modern printmaking. The times we live in .................

There are many different "rice" papers made from many different trees. Awagami sells several that are made from the bark of several different trees and bushes. The Epson stuff is Kozo, mulberry. It has been the most popular tree to use in Asia going back to the beginning of paper making. The Epson stuff is good ( if only available ) but so is the Awagami thin that can also be used for backlit applications.

By the way it is not just Americans who call these traditional Asian papers "rice papers". My wife's father was a well known painter from Shanghai who used these a lot going back to the 1970s for traditional Chinese painting sold in his gallery in NY. He used mulberry extensively, and bought it in giant rolls from Hong Kong. I still have some it here. He always called them rice papers, so they were taught to call them that in China.


 Before the Japanese started using them, the Chinese invented these kinds of papers for brush painting, back in the Tang Dynasty in the 8th Century, what many people call the high point in Chinese culture on many levels. Calligraphy in both carbon black as well as color and bw landscape painting was done on it. There are thousands and thousands of of examples of painting in great condition that were done on these papers since the Tang, in museums all over the world.  Of course the longevity then, as today depends on the quality of the pigments used as well as how the paper was made and stored. But I've seen some scroll painting from China and Japan that are at least 500 years old that look great, and believe me they were not stored in museum conditions all this time and I'm sure there are artworks on the market a lot older than that. On many I've seen the paper has darkened slightly, but this is also true of the Rembrand, Durr, and Damier prints that I've held in my hand, that were printed on cotton, while cataloging a print collection for a museum.

Since Kozo is wood pulp is it full of lignan that is acidic. It is for the most part removed from the " alpha-cellulose" paper we use for printmaking today ( like say Canson Baryta or Hahnemuhle German Etching ). I don't know if these ancient papers were treated with anything when they were made or not. But the reason the Kozo was used was because it was tough and because you had a tight weave making the spreading of calligraphy ink less apparent. That is why many of us have been able to print on it for years without any ink receptor coating. ( the receptor coating by Epson and Awagami is great and I'm really glad to have it, but we don't know it's long term effects on the image ).  Since these papers are already warmish and fairly dark it's possible that you just don't see that much of a change over the centuries. The modern bleached versions are certainly going to darken, but nobody had tested them so we don't know how fast.

The real big unknown is how do the modern inkjet print pigments hold up on them? I've been dong a lot of black and white work on the straight uncoated kozo for 15 years and they still look great, but haven't done a lot of color on them so I have no idea how they will hold up with any ink.

My feeling is that usually the kind of work that is done on them, at least in my case, is not work that is super hue specific. In other words fairly abstract and if a couple of hues drift over time I'm not too worried about it. But if you completely lost saturation of a primary color or of everything in a few decades that would be bad, and I'd stick to bw when working with them.

As Mark well knows we can speculate a lot about these things, but slapping the word "signature worthy" or "archival" on a fine art paper is nutty, unless you can back it up by paying to have them tested.

Speaking of tests these new Epson and Canon inks have been out for like a year now and we still don't know the verdict.

John

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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2017, 05:36:04 pm »

Rice paper was a colloquialism for handmade paper created in a specific region.  The term got it’s name as a universal descriptor for paper made according to the traditions of specific locations where the paper was made, according to local customs.

Also called Xuancheng by the Chinese during the Tang dynasty indicating where it was made and referring to paper made of rice and wingceltis bark.

From the Tang Dynasty through the Qing Dynasties, Rice Paper was the generic term for paper made from tree bark and rice straw. Rice paper was and is made predominantly from plant or wood fiber, such as rice straw, bamboo, Hemp, mulberry, Gampi among many others.

Rice plants from the Village of Xuan in the Anhui Province was said to be the best material for making rice paper, and it was produced up until the 14th century.  During the 7th Century, Rice paper manufacture spread to Japan and Korea where it was called Washi.
Fast forward to more modern times, and Washi (paper) was used by Ukiyo-e atists who produced handmade prints by the thousands.  So many of these handmade prints proliferated that they were often used for packing materials for Blue and White ware porcelains being sent to  Europe, and particularly to Paris.  In Japan, Washi was used for numerous purposes, from drawing, painting, printmaking, calligraphy, shoji screens, windows, doors, etc., scrolls, wrapping, just about anything requiring strong yet lightweight material.

Eventually in Paris, so many of the printed Ukiyo-e prints found in packing began finding their way into the hands of artists who appreciated the exquisite workmanship and design.  During the impressionist period in France artists such as Gaugin, Renoir, VanGogh, Seurat, Monet, Degas, and several others became influenced by the amazing “people’s art” literally meaning “The Floating World”.  Ukiyo-e, washi papers, and all things of the culture of Japan took the art world by storm in Paris, quickly earning the name “Japonaisery” or “Japanism”.

Since the washi paper was strong and versatile, artists found new ways to use it and soon, artists such as Van Gogh were even incorporating Ukiyo-e prints within their painting as a tribute to Japanese Ukiyo-e masters. From China, to Korea, to Japan wash made its’ way to America where suddenly it became also a trend, pre-war.

Today few Ukiyo-e paper makers are still living.  Most papers are no longer hand made, but are manufactured by commercial paper manufacturing companies.

Shouhachi Yamaguchi in Fukui Prefecture continues the Washi tradition creating his Washi out of Mulberry.  He is one of two Washi Craftsmen, national treasures, still making Echizen Kizuki Housho with a tradition of 1500 years.

There is a resurgence of interest of paper making among some young people, but the old masters have all but died off. A Canadian, Richard Bull lives and works in Japan and considered an Ukiyo-e master.  He has difficulty getting real paper.

I was fortunate to be able to go through numerous portfolios of Ukiyo-e prints in Paris in 1986 and again in 1990 during studies for a minor in Asian Art History while I was getting my MFA.  I worked with Dr. Penelope Mason (author of Arts of Japan) who was a student of Edward Kidder, America’s foremost japanologist, and author of numerous books published by Kodansha.  Seeing and handling thousands of Ukiyo-e prints, paintings and scrolls, it became clear to me that washi, Japanese handmade paper was a diverse art, a product of deep traditions of Japanese craft guilds, secrets being handed down through careful selection and processes carefully guarded.

There was as great a diversity of hand made paper then as there is of manufactured paper now.

The manufactured papers now have no such tradition behind them, nor do they necessarily carry the weight, the heft, the glow of hand made paper, call it Washi or Rice paper, or Kozo.  But it is about all we’ve got.  Paper from a few paper manufacturers attempting to emulate historical handmade art.

Mark
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