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Author Topic: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability  (Read 16709 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2018, 09:11:59 am »


.................

And the Rag Photographique is being coated by Legion, .........................

My understanding is that Legion doesn't coat anything. It out-sources all these services to established mills owned by others:

https://legionpaper.com/our-mills/
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2018, 09:15:17 am »

Would this be a suitable substitute:  https://www.moabpaper.com/moenkopi-washi/  ??
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deanwork

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2018, 10:28:50 am »

That is the rebranded Awagami. I had some email conversations with one  of the Japanese higher ups at Awagami  ( who was fluent in English ) when I was in a show over there and he told me then that the two places you could purchase their papers in the U S  were freestyle in California and Moab. I have used them both. The coating is good on both and both are very expensive but very well made. I ordered a 44" x 40' roll of the Awagami thick kozo this weekend from Freestyle and it with ground shipping it came to $ 500.00 . Moab is about the same.

In in the past I had run out of this same kozo and they were backordered in that size so I ordered the Moab version. The coating was the same but the Moab was thinner and not as warm, maybe bleached a bit but not bright white. With kozo I generally prefer the natural warm formulas but either one is high quality.

So I guess the deal is Awagami creates this particular version especially for Moab. Freestyle has what looks like the full line of Awagami coated for inkjet papers in many blends and textures. Moab only sells that kozo of theirs and the Bizan another beautiful Awagami surface.

As to Gary's kozo paper thin, there is no equivalent of that. The resolution, dmax, and color gamut is in a class all its own. Especially since it is also so thin that it can easily be used as both a transparency medium backlit as well as a regular portfolio print. It is astonishing. I've used both the Awagami and Gary's product side by side with the same image and although both were nice , Gary's thin kozo is much more photographic. Actually some people might prefer a little more softness of traditional kozo, but my feeling was you can always reduce gamut, contrast, and resolution of your file if you want. The paper Gary created is I believe 20% cotton and 80% kozo. The Awagami kozo thick is 100% mulberry.

It's a moot point now as Awagami and Hiromi are what we have left.

John





Would this be a suitable substitute:  https://www.moabpaper.com/moenkopi-washi/  ??
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pearlstreet

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2018, 01:44:30 pm »

The Harmon Warmtone Baryta was never a popular paper. Both it and the regular Harmon Baryta scratched and jammed horribly in all of our printers due to the extreme curling of both rolls and sheets. I would average one damaged print for every two I made. Besides that,  Harmon was bought out by Hahnemühle. I don't even know why Hah is making the regular high gloss baryta again. I don't think it is going to sell for the same reason it didn't do well before.

As to the Epson Kozo Thin, they never even gave it a chance. They didn't promote it, other than some utube videos that no one I know even saw. And it was never released in North  America. It's like they wanted it to fail from the beginning. Awagami has been making great consistently make kozo and various kozo blends for inkjet for 10 years and I use it all the time. Hiromi in LA also has some great Asian papers to choose from and their coating has gotten much better last time I tried it.

Hahnemühle has been super consistent with all their major fine art papers too numerous to mention. They are actually selling more fine art media of high quality than I have time to even test. Canson after they were sold to Legion, is having problems with Rag Photographique but maybe that is temporary. The Platine is fine.

We've got a wide variety of smaller companies trying to grab market share as well, such as Red River, Breathing Color,  Lexjet, innova, Moab, Ilford inkjet, etc, . And you've got the big printer companies Canon, HP, and Epson selling rebranded Canson and other good stuff.  I choose Hahnemuhle for the most part because almost all of their media not only is always available but I never see any changes. Their quality control is superb over the 16 years I've used it.

John

Harman FB Gloss Baryta (now produced by Hahnemuhle) is one of my favorite papers. I never experienced the level of problems you did with the paper. If they discontinue it, I hope someone else picks it up as there is no other paper like it - it is gorgeous paper.
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deanwork

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2018, 02:41:14 pm »

You use it in rolls? I never had a single roll that didn't jam in my Epson, Canon, and HP printers. I've used dozens of brands and surfaces of media and nothing scratched as easily as that. I quit using it completely about 3 years ago. The problems with that media has been well documented online for years. Lots of us reluctantly had to stop using it.

When I gave up on the rolls and bought 17x22 sheets, it cured like mad too and scratched. About three months ago I bought one of the last boxes of the Harmon Warmtone for a body of split toned work I wanted to reprint from 10 years ago - cool inks on warm paper. I thought I'd give it one last shot for old times sake.  The prints were fantastic, but yes, one out of every three prints scratched and even after flattening them in a dry mount press I couldn't get them to stay flat.

The Hahnemühle rep left me a sample print of their new version and it appears to be the same as the old Harmon bright white version or super close to it. But my sample  now pinned to the bulliten board still has that extreme curl to it.

I have to say I was most reluctant to give up on that Harmon Baryta. I have big prints in galleries and collectors homes done on it and they looked superb. I have to say the neutral and warm monochrome prints I did with it absolutely came the closest to passing as Ilford silver prints than anything I have used.  . I'm not really into trying to duplicate the look of a silver print as the year is 2018 ,  and I moved on 20 years ago, but if you were wanting that appearance the Harmon sprayed with Hahnemühle spray or using the Hpz3200 and their gloss enhancer made it possible.


Harman FB Gloss Baryta (now produced by Hahnemuhle) is one of my favorite papers. I never experienced the level of problems you did with the paper. If they discontinue it, I hope someone else picks it up as there is no other paper like it - it is gorgeous paper.
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Rado

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2018, 02:49:04 pm »

One trick I use with Harman Gloss Baryta is to rotate the sheet 90 degrees so that the curl happens top down instead of left to right. I never had a scratched print or a head strike when doing this. Of course this won't help with rolls or if the paper is too big to fit the printer horizontally...
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pearlstreet

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2018, 03:53:32 pm »

You use it in rolls? I never had a single roll that didn't jam in my Epson, Canon, and HP printers. I've used dozens of brands and surfaces of media and nothing scratched as easily as that. I quit using it completely about 3 years ago. The problems with that media has been well documented online for years. Lots of us reluctantly had to stop using it.

When I gave up on the rolls and bought 17x22 sheets, it cured like mad too and scratched. About three months ago I bought one of the last boxes of the Harmon Warmtone for a body of split toned work I wanted to reprint from 10 years ago - cool inks on warm paper. I thought I'd give it one last shot for old times sake.  The prints were fantastic, but yes, one out of every three prints scratched and even after flattening them in a dry mount press I couldn't get them to stay flat.

The Hahnemühle rep left me a sample print of their new version and it appears to be the same as the old Harmon bright white version or super close to it. But my sample  now pinned to the bulliten board still has that extreme curl to it.

I have to say I was most reluctant to give up on that Harmon Baryta. I have big prints in galleries and collectors homes done on it and they looked superb. I have to say the neutral and warm monochrome prints I did with it absolutely came the closest to passing as Ilford silver prints than anything I have used.  . I'm not really into trying to duplicate the look of a silver print as the year is 2018 ,  and I moved on 20 years ago, but if you were wanting that appearance the Harmon sprayed with Hahnemühle spray or using the Hpz3200 and their gloss enhancer made it possible.

No rolls - sheets only. I can get the curl out of sheets of it. I have never had a problem with scratches. I have it dry mounted so it doesn't curl later on my clients and the framer has never scratched a print either. It may be documented online and I understand that is your experience. But it hasn't been my experience.
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Richard Man

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Thin Paper Availability
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2018, 02:53:00 am »

Thanks to Brian's lead, I have total of 8x coming my way (*bye bye $$$*). Reminds me of when Kodak announced EOL on Dye Transfer materials that Ctein took a second mortgage on his house to stock up on supplies which lasted him 20 years. This is not quite that expensive, but still....
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 07:38:41 am by Richard Man »
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