Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?

[Stefan.Steib]

Am I feeling a tiny bit of negativity here?

Considering the limited aperture and sensor size, I am not surprised by the MTF results.

Cheers,
Bernard

pfff - not negativity. It´s just common status of technology now. Unless you measure the lenses on something like a K8/Zeiss
normal users - and that includes journalists testing the devices on bodies by software like Imatest - you will never see the real lens data.
They are buried in the raw (perhaps if that happens at a later stage) and if you use something like Raw Therapee you can even see it.
But if the cameramaker decides to do it deep down in the "throat" of the sensor electronics, you will never know.

[Garry Sarre]

I don't agree with your analysis, I'm very positive about the camera. Sure I'd love to have FPS too, but what I want is not necessarily what sells the most cameras. If the choice was between $9k camera and 725 grams, or a $11k camera and 900 grams plus a bit bulkier form factor, just to fit the FPS, would the later option be better? I don't think so. Maybe it would not hurt the design that much, but the point is that FPS wouldn't come for free, and the slick lightweight sexy design plus the lower price I think is more important for sales than satisfying the niche of combining third-party lenses and tech cams. I would guess that there's like 20 enthusiast buyers that want a slick clean system on every 1 pro that mixes and matches bodies and lenses. Sure you can argue that with FPS the lenses would be cheaper, but no, medium format / hassy is so associated to leaf shutters so I think that either they would have had FPS + leaf shutters, or just leaf shutters like now. I'm not sure how good idea it is to have a MF-sized shutter in a light body either...

The video is probably because the sensor/platform simply isn't made for it. As far as I know anything but the most basic video does require quite some specific development, and I don't think video makes sense in medium format size at all (with like Arri's special rental only camera as the exception), so that it actually have some basic video is just a bonus.

The lack of highest end finder is a bit mysterious though, but I'd like to see it first before saying that it's actually bad.

Cannibalizing effect may be there for a narrow set of users, but what would they do instead? Set the price to $20k? They want to reach those that cannot pay for H6D. Working professionals, probably 90% or more of the H6D customer base, will go for the H6 for the feature set anyway, and maybe get the X1D as an extra body. I think pros that get X1D as an extra is more than those that get only an X1D instead of a H6D they otherwise would have bought.

+1

[siddhaarta]

pfff - not negativity. It´s just common status of technology now. Unless you measure the lenses on something like a K8/Zeiss
normal users - and that includes journalists testing the devices on bodies by software like Imatest - you will never see the real lens data.
They are buried in the raw (perhaps if that happens at a later stage) and if you use something like Raw Therapee you can even see it.
But if the cameramaker decides to do it deep down in the "throat" of the sensor electronics, you will never know.

… and do you know, on which basis Rodenstock, Leica and Zeiss publish their MTFs?

[Stefan.Steib]

… and do you know, on which basis Rodenstock, Leica and Zeiss publish their MTFs?

I am pretty sure Zeiss uses real data from K8 MTF optical (collimator)measurements.
http://www.zeiss.de/camera-lenses/de_de/industrial_lenses/lens_measuring_technologies.html

Rodenstock also uses optical measurements, last time I had seen it they used a specially modified device from another German company OEG, from Frankfurt/Oder
http://www.oeggmbh.com/?p=2&k=7&kj=&z=

[BernardLanguillier]

pfff - not negativity. It´s just common status of technology now. Unless you measure the lenses on something like a K8/Zeiss
normal users - and that includes journalists testing the devices on bodies by software like Imatest - you will never see the real lens data.
They are buried in the raw (perhaps if that happens at a later stage) and if you use something like Raw Therapee you can even see it.
But if the cameramaker decides to do it deep down in the "throat" of the sensor electronics, you will never know.

True, but there is no reason to suspect this considering the specs of those lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Stefan.Steib]

True, but there is no reason to suspect this considering the specs of those lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

These MTFs are of no use at all as long as they are not stating the linepairs/mm used  normal standards are 10/20/40lpm.

Numbers with 10lpm look totally different than 40lpm.

So in this case - it´s just some nice graphics with not much information at all.

[BobShaw]

I think it is a game changer. I have no interest in focal plane shutters. I have a Canon for that.
Leaf shutters was a main reason to go MF in the first place.
To me with an H3D it is a great upgrade and means that the Hasselblad is now as portable as the Canon.

I think it will not only attract H and maybe V series owners wishing to upgrade progressively but also those looking at a high MP 35mm camera with much better image quality that you can put in a backpack.

I don't know but it may have virtually no moving parts.
So given my H3D still works great (as do many H1s) a camera of this quality could last well over a decade.
I want one.

[EricWHiss]

I'm quite positive about the X1D overall.  Looks like a great camera, and I want one too!

The lack of focal plane shutter doesn't bother me too much personally as I'd rather have the option for faster sync speed with the leaf shutter lenses anyhow. I do expect to see this camera be fitted to different technical cameras because of the shallow throat, and in those cases the users might like try all kinds of different glass.  But I guess you can fit almost anything to different mechanical shutters so no real worries.   If Stefan doesn't want to make active adapters I'm sure others will. 

The EVF is something I'd want to work with before making any comments but for me the issue won't be resolution but rather lag.  Maybe by going with a lower resolution they could speed up the processing and get less lag?

Otherwise this is all win in my opinion!

[siddhaarta]

These MTFs are of no use at all as long as they are not stating the linepairs/mm used  normal standards are 10/20/40lpm.

Numbers with 10lpm look totally different than 40lpm.

So in this case - it´s just some nice graphics with not much information at all.

I assume its 10/20/40 as always with Hasselblad. What puzzles me is the comparison between the MTF of the new XCD 45 and the HC 50 II. The 45 is substantially better, but that might have to do with what you say.

[Stefan.Steib]

For all those who want to know more - this is the best read available - by Dr. Hubert Nasse/Zeiss:

http://lenspire.zeiss.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/03/cln30_en_web_special_mtf_01.pdf

http://lenspire.zeiss.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/03/cln31_en_web_special_mtf_02.pdf

[BernardLanguillier]

These MTFs are of no use at all as long as they are not stating the linepairs/mm used  normal standards are 10/20/40lpm.

Numbers with 10lpm look totally different than 40lpm.

So in this case - it´s just some nice graphics with not much information at all.

Ah ok, you described them as suspiciously good (probably electronically enhanced) 5 mins ago and now they are useless... I must have misunderstood.
Cheers,
Bernard

[siddhaarta]

In another forum I read that the use of HC lenses via adapter will only be manual focus.

Anybody can confirm that?

[NickT]

Yes I can

It will depend on the age of the lens but to be on the safe side assume MF with HC lenses.

[siddhaarta]

Thanks for the confirmation.

I assume shutter speed will be 1/800 with the older lenses.

[BernardLanguillier]

Yes I can

It will depend on the age of the lens but to be on the safe side assume MF with HC lenses.

Do you have more info about focusing with the native lenses?
- AF: how many points and how to select among them?
- MF: is there any focusing aid?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

[NickT]

Single AF point using contrast detection.

I would think there would be MF focussing aid, have asked the question.

[JoeKitchen]

I'm quite positive about the X1D overall.  Looks like a great camera, and I want one too!

The lack of focal plane shutter doesn't bother me too much personally as I'd rather have the option for faster sync speed with the leaf shutter lenses anyhow. I do expect to see this camera be fitted to different technical cameras because of the shallow throat, and in those cases the users might like try all kinds of different glass.  But I guess you can fit almost anything to different mechanical shutters so no real worries.   If Stefan doesn't want to make active adapters I'm sure others will. 

The EVF is something I'd want to work with before making any comments but for me the issue won't be resolution but rather lag.  Maybe by going with a lower resolution they could speed up the processing and get less lag?

Otherwise this is all win in my opinion!

I think there is an opportunity for some to create a FPS adapter to use on this camera so other lenses can be used, both on tech cameras and hand held.  I think though, having a FPS in camera would be a much better option, and, not having one, will cause those on the fence to not buy.  I think there will be many on the fence. 

I feel the size of the market of pros who put together Frankenstein systems in greatly underestimated.  Speaking from my field, I know many architectural shooters who use a Frankenstein system to some extent (even my system is very Frankensteinish), and I would bet those numbers would be in the majority of APs.  I also know many pros who use outdated lenses to create that look. 

The resolution of the EVF I kind of feel could be a good thing.  The more resolute the EVF is, the harder it is to surprise noise (due to the sensor working at a higher ISOs).  Dealing with noise in an EVF is very annoying, but we will have to wait.

[eronald]

There is no opportunity for an adapter because by the time the adapter comes out Hassy will release a firmware upgrade that does electronic shutter.

Edmund

I think there is an opportunity for some to create a FPS adapter to use on this camera so other lenses can be used, both on tech cameras and hand held.  I think though, having a FPS in camera would be a much better option, and, not having one, will cause those on the fence to not buy.  I think there will be many on the fence. 

I feel the size of the market of pros who put together Frankenstein systems in greatly underestimated.  Speaking from my field, I know many architectural shooters who use a Frankenstein system to some extent (even my system is very Frankensteinish), and I would bet those numbers would be in the majority of APs.  I also know many pros who use outdated lenses to create that look. 

The resolution of the EVF I kind of feel could be a good thing.  The more resolute the EVF is, the harder it is to surprise noise (due to the sensor working at a higher ISOs).  Dealing with noise in an EVF is very annoying, but we will have to wait.

[JoeKitchen]

There is no opportunity for an adapter because by the time the adapter comes out Hassy will release a firmware upgrade that does electronic shutter.

Edmund

This is the only other reason I could think of for why they would not include a shutter. 

Maybe they are future thinking and laughing at us back in Gothenburg. 

[skierd]

I'm starting to think from reading some of the comments on here that some people here are so pessimistic that they see a half full glass as 3/4 empty.