Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: torger on June 17, 2016, 08:06:47 am
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Any rumors about what's being presented on the livestream event 22nd of June?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tah8tiFLBZc
The tiny crop in the video preview looks like a new camera, right?
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Exciting times
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paranomic FF or mirrorless MF? can't wait
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Frankly, what could really change the game at this point in time?
Cheers,
Bernard
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My guess so far is a cooperation with Fuji, a mirrorless camera with a 44x33mm sensor, with exchangable lenses. New lens mount, but H lenses can be attached (with autofocus) via adapter. Attractively priced (for being MF), targeted at consumers.
However I guess on-chip auto-focus will require a different chip than the current Sony 44x33... so maybe it's something else.
The "game changer" term is almost always an exaggeration from marketing, but if it's shown to be the first mirrorless MF system and on top of that attractively priced, it's as close as it can be to a game changer.
Sure Pentax 645z is attractively priced and all, but it's a bulky monster crippled by it's huge flange distance. A similar priced mirrorless body with the same sensor size it could be a hit.
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I hope its flange distance is shorter than Canon's. That would open so many possibilities.
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Dam I'm expecting my H6D on the 20th! Should I delay the pickup???
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Frankly, what could really change the game at this point in time?
Cheers,
Bernard
Decent zoom lenses and 1" sensors on phones.
Edmund
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Something to fruition from their DJI partnership?
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Hi,
Something like that is what I would hope for…
In a few days we will know.
Best regards
Erik
My guess so far is a cooperation with Fuji, a mirrorless camera with a 44x33mm sensor, with exchangable lenses. New lens mount, but H lenses can be attached (with autofocus) via adapter. Attractively priced (for being MF), targeted at consumers.
However I guess on-chip auto-focus will require a different chip than the current Sony 44x33... so maybe it's something else.
The "game changer" term is almost always an exaggeration from marketing, but if it's shown to be the first mirrorless MF system and on top of that attractively priced, it's as close as it can be to a game changer.
Sure Pentax 645z is attractively priced and all, but it's a bulky monster crippled by it's huge flange distance. A similar priced mirrorless body with the same sensor size it could be a hit.
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Hi,
Something like that is what I would hope for…
In a few days we will know.
Best regards
Erik
Maybe a new M-mount system :)
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ya M mount with focus assist would be a game changer!
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It's a game changer IMO:
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Since its a square ad maybe its a square sensor...HUH?
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Such a teaser, Nick...
;-)
I know Keith! NDA and all. You'll be one of the first customers I reckon!
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A digital Hasselblad SWC?
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Don't know.... IMO it looks too thick to be a mirrorless... The start of the curve that forms the grip is clear at the right, judging from proportions and the size of the VF, it looks like a DSLR to me... It could of course be that it has been photographed in a way to confuse, but if it was a mirrorless of 33x44 size, the image area to mount distance should be 2-2.2 cm maximum and then another 1-1.5cm max for the rear plate? That should end to 3.5cm/1&1/2 inch max... This looks to be of similar depth or deeper to a Leica S....
It looks like there is something revolutionary happening with the lens mounting though... Oval shape? ...why? ...are there motorized shifts and/or tilts built in?
Also... That oval shape "hole" next to the grip, seems to have been shaped according to the mount... This is a hint that the two are related... maybe there is some control in there related to the lens mount?
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If you go to the instagram feed with this post (hasselblad_official), somebody makes the comment "a rebranded Sony A7?" to which Hasselblad_official replies "please not #mediumformat" I think we can count on this being a medium format camera but will it be an X-Pan or a mirrorless medium format camera? Who knows. When I went to the H6D presentation here in Washington DC, I asked the rep specifically about there being a digital X-Pan and he said he had no knowledge of that camera yet but did know that Hasselblad considered it the ''silver bullet" for products and that we would for sure have a few cameras released from Hasselblad this year. It is still a ways till Photokina so the release of this camera right now is interesting too. I wonder if they know that other manufactures will release mirrorless MF this year too? Sony? Bring on the X-Pan!!!!
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A mirrorless medium format body with a new lens mount but the ability to use HC lenses through an adapter (as already mentioned by torger) is most likely IMO and would indeed be a game changer.
Very similar to what Leica did with the Leica SL but the SL is 35mm and this would still be medium format or perhaps S-like medium format...
Interesting...
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If the lenses are "MF" versions of the Fuji X system best lenses then this could be really interesting because IHMO they are second to none in terms of look, beating the Otus, Leica S and Schneider lenses of the world.
I personally see Fuji as the best lens designer in the Western part of the galaxy.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I like Fuji lenses too. And in my opinion they produce the lenses for hasselblad. Fuji has a lot of experience with very very expensive film lenses and know the professional sector.
I hope they will release a mid format system but the x system of Fuji is not very huge and not every camera brings enough cash.
And now a professional mid format? Hmmm?
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Hi,
I think that it needs to be significant larger than 24x36. Also, I would suggest they would use an existing sensor.
My assumption would be a mirrorless body that works reasonably well H-series lenses using adapters.
Best regards
Erik
...or it could be a 'game changer' for Hasselblad
36x24 mirrorless?
Or even more interesting 36x36 mirrorless.
Whatever, I bet Nick's having fun ;-)
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Hi,
I think that it needs to be significant larger than 24x36. Also, I would suggest they would use an existing sensor.
My assumption would be a mirrorless body that works reasonably well H-series lenses using adapters.
Best regards
Erik
But would that really be a game changer ? I mean not sure but mirror less alone isn't much. I mean even new lenses will be big if they want great quality and fast lenses. (See Sony new lenses)
I think important would be a great interface for many lenses like Hassi, Phase, Leica S. But is that possible ?
I'm just thinking aloud here, but we all know there will be a super high red Sony sooner rather than later.
While I agree MF sensor will be nice, but is there really a market for a 50MP MF mirror less if there is a 75MP sony?
It will be interesting to see. I hope something really great as more movement in the whole industry is good for all.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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While I agree MF sensor will be nice, but is there really a market for a 50MP MF mirror less if there is a 75MP sony?
Especially if the Sony is able to focus reliably on the eye of your subject and deliver the full resolution potential day in day out?...
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi,
The main advantage with mirror less, as I see it, is accurate focusing (used magnified live view) and tilt & shift usage with many lenses. It may be relatively easy to integrate with lenses having electronic controls.
How a Sony with an 75 MP sensor would effect MFD, that remains to be seen.
But, I don't think it makes sense for Hasselblad to compete head on with Sony, so I think they need to make a real medium format camera. On the other hand it will need to be a quite a bit different to become a game changer.
If Sony makes a 75 MP sensor 24x36 mm sensor they could also make a 126 MP 44x33 sensor, so format advantage would be conserved. I would say that manufacturing cost is much more related to sensor surface area than to megapixels, so that 126 MP sensor would probably not be very expensive.
Best regards
Erik
But would that really be a game changer ? I mean not sure but mirror less alone isn't much. I mean even new lenses will be big if they want great quality and fast lenses. (See Sony new lenses)
I think important would be a great interface for many lenses like Hassi, Phase, Leica S. But is that possible ?
I'm just thinking aloud here, but we all know there will be a super high red Sony sooner rather than later.
While I agree MF sensor will be nice, but is there really a market for a 50MP MF mirror less if there is a 75MP sony?
It will be interesting to see. I hope something really great as more movement in the whole industry is good for all.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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Especially if the Sony is able to focus reliably on the eye of your subject and deliver the full resolution potential day in day out?...
Cheers,
Bernard
Yeah, between a Phase One and a Sony, the contest is not equal. :)
Edmund
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Yeah, between a Phase One and a Sony, the contest is not equal. :)
Edmund
Boy no love for Phase One. Sad to see the bashing. Plenty of owners of the XF seem quite able to focus on the eye or any other part of the subject with no problems. It's too bad that none of them are on the forum or want to post. But I do tire of the constant AF comparisons.
The XF may not be the next "game changer" (I am also tired of that) but it's quite capable of getting the job done, is shipping, and has a proven track record.
My definition of game changer is more in the lines of the Pentax K1. Late to market but it does have an amazing amount of impressive features that are no included with its intended competition. I realize not MF but still a better example of a true "game changer"
Paul C
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It is really about the definition of game changer.
To me this isn't about features, it is about the ability to achieve photographic results in ways not easily doable before.
I can frankly not think of many cameras in history that can have done that.
We have had many more or less significant advances, the XF is clearly one, the K1 too,...
Cheers,
Bernard
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It is really about the definition of game changer.
To me this isn't about features, it is about the ability to achieve photographic results in ways not easily doable before.
I can frankly not think of many cameras in history that can have done that.
We have had many more or less significant advances, the XF is clearly one, the K1 too,...
Cheers,
Bernard
Kodak made the first dSLRS. Phase, Leaf, Hassy popularised hi-rez photography, giving a clear aimpoint for electronic camera offerings. Sony gave us hi-rez dSLRs (Nikon, Sony), and Canon created the stills/video hybrid (5D2). I don't know what a game changer could be again ...
Edmund
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Appreciated!
Erik
Boy no love for Phase One. Sad to see the bashing. Plenty of owners of the XF seem quite able to focus on the eye or any other part of the subject with no problems. It's too bad that none of them are on the forum or want to post. But I do tire of the constant AF comparisons.
The XF may not be the next "game changer" (I am also tired of that) but it's quite capable of getting the job done, is shipping, and has a proven track record.
My definition of game changer is more in the lines of the Pentax K1. Late to market but it does have an amazing amount of impressive features that are no included with its intended competition. I realize not MF but still a better example of a true "game changer"
Paul C
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Hasselblad: “This new model is the result of meticulous engineering research, culminating in the creation of an unprecedented camera which underpins the Hasselblad mission to pioneer and produce supreme quality across all our products.”
That's what they said about the Lunar. I'd take their use of "game changer" with a grain of salt.
It's only four days; we'll see.
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Hasselblad: “This new model is the result of meticulous engineering research, culminating in the creation of an unprecedented camera which underpins the Hasselblad mission to pioneer and produce supreme quality across all our products.”
That's what they said about the Lunar. I'd take their use of "game changer" with a grain of salt.
It's only four days; we'll see.
Well, they seem to have bought themselves access to Sony with the Lunar :)
Edmund
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Photo Rumors has received an update from a source about the upcoming Hasselblad camera. PR says the source describes it as “mirrorless, ‘very special’, ‘beautiful’, with an unusual aspect ratio.”
http://petapixel.com/2016/06/17/hasselblad-announce-new-prosumer-camera-next-week-report/
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My definition of game changer is more in the lines of the Pentax K1. Late to market but it does have an amazing amount of impressive features that are no included with its intended competition. I realize not MF but still a better example of a true "game changer"
borrowed the translation (from original to English) from Wikipedia :
"......Two cowboys, a newcomer and an old-timer, are drinking beer in front of a saloon. Suddenly, there is a clatter of hooves, a great cloud of dust, and something moving extremely fast from one end of town to the other. The newcomer looks at the old-timer, but seeing no reaction, decides to let the matter drop. However, several minutes later, the same cloud of dust, accompanied by the clatter of hooves, rapidly proceeds in the other direction. Not being able to see what's behind the dust, and unable to contain his curiosity any longer, the newcomer asks: "OK, what the hell was that, Bill?" / "Oh, that's Uncatchable Joe. Nobody has ever managed to catch him, Harry." / "Why? Is he so fast, Bill?" / "Nope, it's just because nobody needs him, Harry." ('Variant: "Nobody cares about him")........."
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Ive posted repeatedly that I have no problems focusing with the XF...
Boy no love for Phase One. Sad to see the bashing. Plenty of owners of the XF seem quite able to focus on the eye or any other part of the subject with no problems. It's too bad that none of them are on the forum or want to post. But I do tire of the constant AF comparisons.
The XF may not be the next "game changer" (I am also tired of that) but it's quite capable of getting the job done, is shipping, and has a proven track record.
My definition of game changer is more in the lines of the Pentax K1. Late to market but it does have an amazing amount of impressive features that are no included with its intended competition. I realize not MF but still a better example of a true "game changer"
Paul C
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I'm leaning towards a mirrorless offering, possibly square.
Self interest has me hoping for 36x36 with the option to use Leica M lenses.
Wishful thinking on my part? Probably. More likely panoramic.
Square would be nice, although 4:3 sensor that rotates would be better (like with the Leaf Rollie combo sold a few years ago).
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Now I don't want to say a lot about it as this topic should be about Hassi.
The XF is for me on of the biggest step in camera design and features. We don't need to talk about weight and size. It's huge and heavy, but it does so many things extremely well. I can't think of many other DSLR type cameras which come even close. ( I loved my D800 or Canons but their design/functions are outdated )
Just to name a few things like changing settings looking at the file through wifi is amazing. It helps in so many ways I really could not image having a camera without it. Same goes for focus stacking I use it outdoors and it works really well once you know how to use it.
A lot of other great stuff, but let's go back to the topic.
If it is an "unusual" aspect ration my guess would be square. I would which a panoramic format. Something I have been waiting a long time. And if it does deliver I would buy it right away.
It will be interesting to see what comes at the end.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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I have to ask, why would square be nice? I just can't see the reasons. I can't think of many shots in the field that really lend them to a square format, and especially a framed print, as the vast majority of standard frames and framed print sizes don't work well with a square format. Magazine copy, is mostly not square at least what I see. I remember using the original Kodak 16MP chip yes it was square, and I hated it. It may be just me, but I greatly prefer the 4:3 ratio of MF or 3:2 of 35mm. Just me I guess.
If square is an option of a unique sensor that is also offering a pano option, then sure. But to limit it to square I am missing this.
When I shot the Kodak, I almost always was taking two shots side by side to blend together later.
Just curious, I understand the heritage of Hasselblad and all that and the square format. But hey, I can't use a waist level finder either, framing with it drives me a bit crazy.
Paul C
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Instagram is square ;)
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Instagram is square ;)
Was.
I naturally crop a lot of images to square. Probably because my published stuff came late in life.
Edmund
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Instagram is square ;)
SOOO true, thank goodness for the crop app, thanks for bringing this up. I find that I am always having to crop or alter for Instagram. As I said, I am just old fashion but most things in life are not square. ;) (at least to my eyes)
Paul C
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Traditionally, it was a pain to flop over even a 6x4.5 to vertical, and I think it was quite easy to crop square pictures for whatever magazine spread use you needed if you place the subject correctly.
I have to ask, why would square be nice? I just can't see the reasons. I can't think of many shots in the field that really lend them to a square format, and especially a framed print, as the vast majority of standard frames and framed print sizes don't work well with a square format. Magazine copy, is mostly not square at least what I see. I remember using the original Kodak 16MP chip yes it was square, and I hated it. It may be just me, but I greatly prefer the 4:3 ratio of MF or 3:2 of 35mm. Just me I guess.
If square is an option of a unique sensor that is also offering a pano option, then sure. But to limit it to square I am missing this.
When I shot the Kodak, I almost always was taking two shots side by side to blend together later.
Just curious, I understand the heritage of Hasselblad and all that and the square format. But hey, I can't use a waist level finder either, framing with it drives me a bit crazy.
Paul C
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I think it should obvious what will be announced will be a digital Holga or Diana.A true game changer in either case.
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I'm in the XPan camp... betting on a pano format. Maybe the 'game changer' is that they're doing one that keeps its paint on?
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I guess that the oval shaped lens cover and then the similarly shaped "hole" by it, suggest that this camera has side sifts built in and the "hole" has some kind of control hidden for lens (and maybe sensor too) positioning... So, I guess this is not the "entry level" DSLR that Mr. Oosting was talking about in his interview, but one out of the "lots of new releases" he promised earlier on in the Lula interview.... Probably a modern x-pan indeed... especially if the image area is also "sliding" too....
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If it'a a square sensor or a panoramic, where would they get this sensor from?
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If it'a a square sensor or a panoramic, where would they get this sensor from?
It's not a square sensor... this is just on some people "wish list"... You don't need a "panoramic sensor" to make a panoramic camera... a standard 2x3 or 3x4 (depending on the format) will do... It can be a camera that has "auto stitching"... Everybody is trying to explain that "oval shape" mount here... It looks like the lens can "travel" from one side to the other...
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Anything in the Fuji GA645 realm with the Sony 33x44 50mp would be just fun. Minor amount of zoom would be appreciated (GA645Zi), and I'll accept if the lens is attached as a trade off. I don't like EVF's, and would love a rangefinder optical with liveview on the main LCD. Just don't pull a Sony and put in a 100 shot battery in it.
Too much?
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Never knew this subforum had so many readers!
Edmund
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If it'a a square sensor or a panoramic, where would they get this sensor from?
Most probably not Sony, so CMOSIS is the only reasonable option.
The previous gen of their sensors (various Leica cameras) are not totally at Sony level, but they are still probably better than anything else and the cameras using them produce beautiful images while scoring pretty well technically.
That would be my bet.
Cheers,
Bernard
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If it'a a square sensor or a panoramic, where would they get this sensor from?
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/anamorphic-lenses
Will be stupid expensive if they did it, but why not? Anything is possible in the rumor stage.
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I just find it unlikely that they would have an unusual shape, I just don't see the demand being there. People crop like crazy anyway, the time when your aspect ratio was the same as the film ratio of your camera is long gone. But as seen in the rumor stream someone claims that Hasselblad has said that it will be an unusal aspect ratio... if so I think as Bernard that it would be CMOSIS rather than Sony behind the sensor, and that would actually be refreshing. It's boring with the Sony dominance, just like the Dalsa dominance was boring.
Built in stitching with a moving lens would be something, perhaps with multishot too, but that seems too gimmicky to me to be an actual product.
I'm still guessing on 44x33 mirrorless system...
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I really don't think it has a moving lens. Way to complicated and there would be no way for good automatic stitching. The sensor would have to move not the lens.
My fear it's a boring 4:3 50mp camera and the unusual aspect ration is only because it's not 3:2 ...
Square is another option, but is there REALLY a big market for it ?
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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Whatever it is I really hope it's nothing I want.
Wisest comment so far! ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Wisest comment so far! ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
A game-changer for Hassy is a camera under $10K :)
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Don't know.... IMO it looks too thick to be a mirrorless... The start of the curve that forms the grip is clear at the right, judging from proportions and the size of the VF, it looks like a DSLR to me... It could of course be that it has been photographed in a way to confuse, but if it was a mirrorless of 33x44 size, the image area to mount distance should be 2-2.2 cm maximum and then another 1-1.5cm max for the rear plate? That should end to 3.5cm/1&1/2 inch max... This looks to be of similar depth or deeper to a Leica S....
It looks like there is something revolutionary happening with the lens mounting though... Oval shape? ...why? ...are there motorized shifts and/or tilts built in?
Also... That oval shape "hole" next to the grip, seems to have been shaped according to the mount... This is a hint that the two are related... maybe there is some control in there related to the lens mount?
Theo...
Is it possible you have time to make a list of specific predictions about this release? Maybe with probabilities or confidences you think for each one?
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Theo...
Is it possible you have time to make a list of specific predictions about this release? Maybe with probabilities or confidences you think for each one?
Doug, rumors are Hassy have a clip-on set of blades that turn their camera into a drone, which can be used indoors !!!!!!
Here is the prototype:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOptzQP4bJU
Edmund
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I kind of liked the idea to get one camera system and use it throughout the career. Even expensive systems like medium format are quite okay that way. I'm not really interested jumping between "current best" every 3-4 years. Unfortunately I bet on the wrong horse and the MF industry seems to have chosen to slowly kill the tech cam genre, but it hasn't increased my want for other cameras. Shooting large format film may be the most suitable future option for me, which has actually caused me to be less interested in live view and other digital convenience features as it makes me less prepared to shoot film.
I'm always interested in new products from an engineering and business perspective though.
Wildlife photography, especially video, has really evolved thanks to technology with ultra-high sensitivities, super telezooms, remote controlled lightweight camera systems, drones etc. When it comes to more static genres like landscape, portraits etc I don't really see that the past 10 years technical development has contributed much to evolve the styles. For landscape we've got dynamic range and HDR.
So "game changing" in terms of how we make pictures in highly unlikely. But it could be game-changing in terms of MF pricing and accessability for example. An attractively priced mirrorless 44x33 camera body with short enough flange distance so it can take virtually everything could be the next "A7r-II", on every landscape enthusiast's wishlist and many pro photographers that use Actus etc for tech photography. If it's a panoramic camera with quite long flange distance I don't expect it to be as popular.
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Theo...
Is it possible you have time to make a list of specific predictions about this release? Maybe with probabilities or confidences you think for each one?
I'd rather wait for the announcement to make comments... Surely the (hidden) info up to now creates much wonder... It is good to see some makers trying to find solutions for advancing one's creativity, than others who create cameras only to improve on what DSLR users do (and do very well to the extend than one doesn't need better)...
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I kind of liked the idea to get one camera system and use it throughout the career.......
Everybody does... Having a system that requires the minimum of lenses and then with different bodies be able to cope with all different tasks, is the "true" photographer's dream... Rollei achieved it (with the 6000 system)... only thing that was missing them having the platform, the lenses, the view camera base and the compatible shutter, all with the same interface... was an adapter as to fit the (fast) lenses on a DSLR... which I bet would have happened by now....
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I kind of liked the idea to get one camera system and use it throughout the career. Even expensive systems like medium format are quite okay that way. I'm not really interested jumping between "current best" every 3-4 years. Unfortunately I bet on the wrong horse and the MF industry seems to have chosen to slowly kill the tech cam genre, but it hasn't increased my want for other cameras. Shooting large format film may be the most suitable future option for me, which has actually caused me to be less interested in live view and other digital convenience features as it makes me less prepared to shoot film.
Seems a bit hard on the self. Thee has always been a pull in photog between the slow and steady, high quality, view camera system and the more flexible, portable, faster way of working. MF film sat in-between and for some of us, offered the best of both. Up to 20" prints, the 6x6 neg was pretty darn good. Not quite like 4x5, but vastly better than 35mm.
The MFDB offered (suggested?) a new middle ground, where one could get the quality of 4x5 (or better) in a smaller package, with all sorts of other advantages. Yet the pressure to go faster yet, with CMOS etc., is still there from the "younger" market, and like before, the view camera and its current iteration, the tech camera, are pushed a bit more still to the background.
This has been going on for some time, in fits and spurts. I'd suggest you didn't bet on the wrong horse, but rather, you have eeked out a new way for say 10 years, which is great. At some point, the approach might need a recalibration, but whats to say you just enjoy it for what it is?
Yes, large format film is looking attractive - its easy, cheaper, and the quality is there, just not the speed... I shot a bit with a view camera and film and boy, is it easy and relaxing! But hard to give up the digital.
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Theo...
Is it possible you have time to make a list of specific predictions about this release? Maybe with probabilities or confidences you think for each one?
His mythical powers only extend to the portfolio of Leica-Sinar and the financial future of PhaseOne.
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His mythical powers only extend to the portfolio of Leica-Sinar and the financial future of PhaseOne.
I wish you would know what "mythical" means... you obviously won't unless you do some "real" photography than what DSLR's can do... ;)
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Are you a unicorn? ;D
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There are enough clues out there to figure this out. We know that it is a camera body, it is "medium format", it can use H series lenses, and it is described as a game changer. Sounds to me like a mirrorless camera body with a medium format sensor that can use lenses from a number of manufacturers with adapters. Basically, a Sony A7R in a beautiful form factor with a Eurocentric set of controls and menu system. That would be a game changer. I want one, so I hope I am wrong.
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Medium format mirrorless would be great. I take one. :)
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If this is a mirrorless MF body with the 50mp Sony sensor, is it feasible to implement on-sensor phase detection autofocus across the sensor like the Sony A7RII? That really would be a game changer.
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Any rumors about what's being presented on the livestream event 22nd of June?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tah8tiFLBZc
The tiny crop in the video preview looks like a new camera, right?
What I will like too see:
1) A wide format camera. People that insist on the square either come from a different age with different esthetics and constraints, or they do not understand that people see wide. Younger generations are used to see images on a wide format. Wide (3:2 or more) will open new possibilities of composition and complement the 4:3 ratio of the H.
2) Mirrorless with an ev.
What do I will like to get implemented? (two machines of a new hasselblad R or something):
1. A very low cost machine 36 x 16 sensor. The mount is Leica M or compatible with Leica m. Resolution is 36mpixels. Auto focus lenses disponible. EV. The target is the people that want to use something different than their DSLR for personal projects and to spur creativity. Card: SDXC UHS-II price 1600 to 2500 US$. Sensor by samsung or Sony.
2. A Large sensor machine: (44mm x 24mm @45mpixels ) EV with a new mount but includes a H mount. Card: CFAST2 Price: whatever is rentable. This machine will be for the MF people
Both will have: gps, wireless and if possible a celular network. The big machine will have and the low cost machine
What I guess we are going to get:
A machine based on the 44 x33 mm 50Mpixel sensor. I may not have an EV. It will support the H lenses and, if they are smart, the Phase One's via adapter. I hope is based on the H6D electronic platform or it will be slow (EV overhead). I hope it has a CFAST2 slot.
If they use the H6D electronic platform, and the price is right, it may be a very good machine, responsible and elegant. It will not be a revolution on the market but it will for hasselblad. Adding a focal plane shutter will be great, but Hasselblad does not have expertise on that. In any case it will be unnecessary in one or two generations as electronic shutters become the norm. If they get 4K out of the machine it will be a nice convergence MF machine.
My 5 cents, best regards,
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I'd rather wait for the announcement to make comments...
Don't know.... IMO it looks too thick to be a mirrorless... The start of the curve that forms the grip is clear at the right, judging from proportions and the size of the VF, it looks like a DSLR to me... It could of course be that it has been photographed in a way to confuse, but if it was a mirrorless of 33x44 size, the image area to mount distance should be 2-2.2 cm maximum and then another 1-1.5cm max for the rear plate? That should end to 3.5cm/1&1/2 inch max... This looks to be of similar depth or deeper to a Leica S....
It looks like there is something revolutionary happening with the lens mounting though... Oval shape? ...why? ...are there motorized shifts and/or tilts built in?
Also... That oval shape "hole" next to the grip, seems to have been shaped according to the mount... This is a hint that the two are related... maybe there is some control in there related to the lens mount?
It's not a square sensor... this is just on some people "wish list"... You don't need a "panoramic sensor" to make a panoramic camera... a standard 2x3 or 3x4 (depending on the format) will do... It can be a camera that has "auto stitching"... Everybody is trying to explain that "oval shape" mount here... It looks like the lens can "travel" from one side to the other...
lol
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Hi,
We have to wait and see…
Thanks for your posting!
Best regards
Erik
What I will like too see:
1) A wide format camera. People that insist on the square either come from a different age with different esthetics and constraints, or they do not understand that people see wide. Younger generations are used to see images on a wide format. Wide (3:2 or more) will open new possibilities of composition and complement the 4:3 ratio of the H.
2) Mirrorless with an ev.
What do I will like to get implemented? (two machines of a new hasselblad R or something):
1. A very low cost machine 36 x 16 sensor. The mount is Leica M or compatible with Leica m. Resolution is 36mpixels. Auto focus lenses disponible. EV. The target is the people that want to use something different than their DSLR for personal projects and to spur creativity. Card: SDXC UHS-II price 1600 to 2500 US$. Sensor by samsung or Sony.
2. A Large sensor machine: (44mm x 24mm @45mpixels ) EV with a new mount but includes a H mount. Card: CFAST2 Price: whatever is rentable. This machine will be for the MF people
Both will have: gps, wireless and if possible a celular network. The big machine will have and the low cost machine
What I guess we are going to get:
A machine based on the 44 x33 mm 50Mpixel sensor. I may not have an EV. It will support the H lenses and, if they are smart, the Phase One's via adapter. I hope is based on the H6D electronic platform or it will be slow (EV overhead). I hope it has a CFAST2 slot.
If they use the H6D electronic platform, and the price is right, it may be a very good machine, responsible and elegant. It will not be a revolution on the market but it will for hasselblad. Adding a focal plane shutter will be great, but Hasselblad does not have expertise on that. In any case it will be unnecessary in one or two generations as electronic shutters become the norm. If they get 4K out of the machine it will be a nice convergence MF machine.
My 5 cents, best regards,
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lol
Instead of all this b.s., i would like a Plaubel Makina remake please. Pocket quality :)
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It's a game changer IMO:
LOL...
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Hi,
I don't think that is that easy. I think that Sony uses a combination of phase detection, for speed, and contrast detection for accuracy. The contrast detection part needs lenses with very fast and accurate focusing.
Bst regards
Erik
If this is a mirrorless MF body with the 50mp Sony sensor, is it feasible to implement on-sensor phase detection autofocus across the sensor like the Sony A7RII? That really would be a game changer.
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If they make a mirror less camera with shorter focal flange they need a bunch of new lenses too. These lenses could be leaf shutters because all hassi lenses are leaf shutters..
A new line for the new camera? Very expensive to design for a small company like hasselblad!
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Phase detect on a 50MP chip MF or 35mm would mean a totally new chip. I agree it would be a nice feature as the two cameras I have used with this tech are very well designed, Fuji X-Pro2 and Sony A7RII.
Safe to say mirrorless is coming, as the Fuji Rumors site is also full of new "rumors" from a Fuji Medium format camera with interchangeable lenses, now to be announced at Kina in Sept. To me this will be a bigger "game changer" than the Hasselblad, as it will be more than likely priced to sell in a bit more reasonable range, and Fuji knows very well how to make a very integrated camera/lenses. I kinda of hope it uses a standard Bayer array, not the X-Trans as no Adobe raw converter really can figure out x-trans. (and they have had plenty of time so I don't think they want to).
edit, Fuji rumors tends to track about 95% correct, it's really more of an early announcement site as Patrick has great sources.
Paul C
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Phase detect on a 50MP chip MF or 35mm would mean a totally new chip.
only Canon implements PDAF on silicone level - all others just mod the CFA, w/o any modifications to the "chip" itself.
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I was a 617 film shooter and I miss it. Stitching does not do the trick for all situations (like the beach) and I don't like the common answer of "buy a high megapixel back and crop." Why should we have to do that? I had an IQ180 and throwing away 35 mpx to get my 617 format was not worth the money I spent on the device. We need a company to bring a true digital panoramic camera to fruition. A high megapixel XPan would have my business in a heart beat.
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My vote goes to some iPhone related item. The seemingly oval thing on the right looks a lot like the corner of a black iPhone.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Until now there haven't been any MF digital rangefinders .... It sort of looks like that from the teaser picture...
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Interesting quaote from Ming Thein - blogger and Hasselblad / Leica beta tester :
Ming Thein's commentary on the new camera:
let’s say I do have some knowledge about what this might be, and it’s at least twice as interesting as they promise:)
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Interesting quaote from Ming Thein - blogger and Hasselblad / Leica beta tester :
Ming Thein's commentary on the new camera:
let’s say I do have some knowledge about what this might be, and it’s at least twice as interesting as they promise:)
Stereoscopic camera?! ;D
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Stereoscopic camera?! ;D
Selfie cam on the back :)
Edmund
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Selfie cam on the back :)
Edmund
With an extendable selfie stick ;)
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Given how many constraints a smaller player might have in terms of R&D investment, a mirrorless MF camera with a fixed back and an adapter for current H series lenses is the most probable product.
It might be logical, but it is still twice as exciting for someone like me. For example, I could use it as a CMOS companion to my existing Mamiya kit and use my current lenses as well.
It will do for me what the Sony A7 series has done for many CaNikon shooters.
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I was a 617 film shooter and I miss it. Stitching does not do the trick for all situations (like the beach) and I don't like the common answer of "buy a high megapixel back and crop." Why should we have to do that? I had an IQ180 and throwing away 35 mpx to get my 617 format was not worth the money I spent on the device. We need a company to bring a true digital panoramic camera to fruition. A high megapixel XPan would have my business in a heart beat.
That to me would seem to fit in with "game changer" most, indeed a lot more than the vast majority of such labelled announcements do and looking at the little image released it does to me bare some resemblance of an Xpan.
I can see the sense behind it as well since it would allow Hassleblad to target the Leica luxury amature market much more effectively than the H system does, trying to do that was obviously the reason for the Sony rebadges.
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Hi,
Agree on all points.
Best regards
Erik
Given how many constraints a smaller player might have in terms of R&D investment, a mirrorless MF camera with a fixed back and an adapter for current H series lenses is the most probable product.
It might be logical, but it is still twice as exciting for someone like me. For example, I could use it as a CMOS companion to my existing Mamiya kit and use my current lenses as well.
It will do for me what the Sony A7 series has done for many CaNikon shooters.
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It will not be a digital XPan, according to a source that's under NDA.
So my bet is still on mirrorless 44x33 body... and as some previous comments says the autofocus doesn't necessarily require a new chip (which otherwise was my biggest question mark), so it could then be the Sony. Hasselblad is a small company and the camera has probably been developed over a quite short period, so it must share technology with their other stuff. A MF mirrorless system based on the Sony seems like the lowest hanging fruit, and could still be termed "a game changer" as it would be the first camera of that type.
I think the native mount will be limited to 44x33, as the idea is that the H system is the flagship system, that is I think there will be no mirrorless body with 54x41 sensor size. There will be an H mount adapter of course, maybe V-mount too. Will it have a focal plane shutter? Probably.
The most exciting aspect is perhaps not about technology, but about price and target market. Will this be marketed as a luxury product, or like a real camera? Will the pricing be comparable to Pentax 645z?
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only Canon implements PDAF on silicone level - all others just mod the CFA, w/o any modifications to the "chip" itself.
I think the last revs of Sony's chips (A7x2 versions and a6300, not sure about the a6000), use PD on chip
"The a7R II features the latest iteration of Sony's continuously evolving autofocus system, in this case an implementation that uses both on-sensor phase detection (for depth awareness) and contrast detection autofocus (for high precision)."
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-7r-ii/11
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The waiting is almost over but it doesn't make me feel any better :) What I miss is medium format digital (sold my back as it was really good up to ISO400 and found myself shooting more with Mamiya 6 and then scan). I'm hoping for some sort of Mamiya 6 camera with MF digital sensor and something that could take whatever lens you have via adaptor - that for me would be a game changer. As I mentioned somewhere else, I'd sell my M system and V body (would keep lenses for V). I'm not a professional photographer and living is taken care of by something else that pays relatively well for me to keep this as a hobby, therefore anything in the <£7000 would be extremely attractive to me.
reason for edit: typos, as always (also strange that my post, after long time, comes after my email rather nickname, what's going on?)
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Well it also has a dial:
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Luminous-Landscape will have a full information article posted on the home page on Wednesday at 2:30PM Sweden time. Check back for all the details then. Should prove to be a fun day.
In the meantime speculate away. I can assure you the folks at HB are reading every post.
Kevin
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I know we've all seen these comments before but I thought it useful (perhaps just for me :) ) to put them together.
- "in the case of one wholly new model in particular, photography fans will be over the moon" Jonathan Margolis
- "still has plans to open up its professional dominated market to a wider audience" ... "from professional to the prosumer. That’s the arena we see as a next step" Oosting/CEO
- "Portability will be key - but how and which ways it will be portable is yet to be announced" Oosting/CEO
- "...something aimed at the prosumer - which we see as the dedicated amateur, passionate enthusiast, semi-professional etc. - already shooting with a DSLR. Part of this audience already buys into Leica and our first step would be to look at this area, prices and portability" Oosting/CEO
- "Not a X-pan" Nick T
- "Not a rebadged ..." Nick T
- "Not made by Fuji" Nick T
- Not just marketing fluff (my rewording, vis "game changer") Nick T
Aimed at prosumer, to me means it's not priced in the "professional" band like digital backs, and pricing alone will allow a wider audience. Portable: yes, MF mirrorless is a lot more portable than other MF options. Already shooting DSLR: I take this to mean that if one is already shooting DSLR/FF then this is something to complement rather than try to move you from DSLR/FF, so a different format could do the trick. Already buying into Leica: not sure what that means .. RF seems unlikely, electronic RF like the X-Pro? I think someone already mentioned the port/cover in the 1st image. I think this would allow RF on all lenses (with adapters for registration) to be used right? Quite important for older non-AF lenses.
So I think that's my guess. Digital RF, probably the 50MP Sony built in (ie not a separate back) as it's been out for a while and is probably cheaper than any newer offering to keep the price lower to enter the prosumer. No AF, also to keep cost down. New dedicated lenses? Probably yes, 2 or 3 to start with.
Does this pass the "not just marketing fluff" comments and "game changer" quotes?
I think it probably does for me, although I'm not sure if I'll play the game (I do have a LOT of MF lenses though :) ) ...
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Well it also has a dial:
So it's not a chinese cellphone with Hasselblad branding.
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I just want it to be something I can mount on my Arca ;)
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Guessing is fun.
Mirrorless, 44x33, touchscreen, wifi connectivity to iOS and Android with companion app, super short flage length allowing the use of legacy glass and even some 35mm format lenses with a big enough image circle and...
...Internally rotating sensor so that the user can switch orientation without rotating the body.
Something like that will effectively kill the tech cam market because with this mounted on an Actus/ Universalis, you can achieve almost everything a tech cam + traditional MFDB can do.
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It looks like a Mamiya 7 with a smaller sensor and an EVP.
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Something like that will effectively kill the tech cam market because with this mounted on an Actus/ Universalis, you can achieve almost everything a tech cam + traditional MFDB can do.
To the contradict... something like that will boost the tech camera market...
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I just want it to be something I can mount on my Arca ;)
Exactly.... and have a portable camera that is of both large sensor as well as have an MFDB and shutter for the tech camera... Some think of PC lenses as being able to replace tech cameras... Well, they are no where near... One can't have distortionless solutions unless he uses a (properly set up) view camera...
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Everything points at the initial guess, 44x33 mirrorless system. I think it's a product aimed at a fairly broad consumer market, so I wouldn't expect anything odd (like range finder, panoramic/square sensor or moving parts), just an A7r but bigger, or perhaps more looking like Leica SL. Leica SL is there because the M isn't modern enough to attract a broad market, and I think it would be a mistake by Hasselblad to try pulling off anything retro.
It will probably be mountable to Arca/Actus, but I would be most surpised if any of the tech cam use cases have been considered at all, just as with the A7r it will work as a natural side effect of the mirrorless design. I don't think the product's target audience is professional photographers that's been long in medium format, but rather to consumers (or "prosumers", although I hate that word) used to high MP 135 cameras that want something bigger and better. It is in line with the comments we've seen from the company.
The A7r-II is $3.2k, Leica SL is $7.5k, Pentax 645z $7k, CFV-50c is $10k. What will this camera cost? My bold guess is $8.5k, and then I think I'm approaching the lower limit of what's reasonable to expect. But I don't think it can be too expensive if they intend it to be aimed at a consumer market and be a "game changer".
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They can price it at USD 8.5k.
Just don't do the usual camera maker math and convert 1USD to 1 EUR.
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Guessing is fun.
Mirrorless, 44x33, touchscreen, wifi connectivity to iOS and Android with companion app, super short flage length allowing the use of legacy glass and even some 35mm format lenses with a big enough image circle and...
...Internally rotating sensor so that the user can switch orientation without rotating the body.
Something like that will effectively kill the tech cam market because with this mounted on an Actus/ Universalis, you can achieve almost everything a tech cam + traditional MFDB can do.
I don't believe that sensor will rotate, or more exactly I believe that it will be a mistake: The key to the future is removing as much moving parts as possible. This not only reduces errors ( We can talk with Nikon about this) but also allow the manufacturing by non experts.
I just hope that it has a good EVF.
One option is that they got a hold on the Leica S sensor. That will explain the unusual aspect ratio bit.
Best regards,
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I'm not convinced at all that this is a mirrorless system (though I wish it will be)... It looks like there is something revolutionary happening with the lens mount and a mirrorless doesn't need a built in solution on the body for this to happen... It leaves enough space for an external mechanical device.
But again... one never knows until its all cleared and in a few hours we will have a real subject to discuss... The thickness of the body (as shown in the announcement picture) doesn't suggest a mirrorless either... All one can be sure at the moment, is that what is shown is the (wonder creating) lens mounting side of the camera.... and the similarly shaped "hole" by it.....
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Any rumors about what's being presented on the livestream event 22nd of June?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tah8tiFLBZc
The tiny crop in the video preview looks like a new camera, right?
New one: https://www.instagram.com/p/BG388T6Eqf2/?taken-by=hasselblad_official
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Just wondering why NickT's thread "What Hasselblad *won't* be announcing on the 22nd" was moved to the Coffee Corner?
It is after all the only informed contribution to what this camera is going to be here on LuLa!
Why spoil the fun with information? ;)
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Just wondering why NickT's thread "What Hasselblad *won't* be announcing on the 22nd" was moved to the Coffee Corner?
It is after all the only informed contribution to what this camera is going to be here on LuLa!
Probably because it was successfully derailed in the very second post.
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My guess would be that it was moved because if one would be in a position as to have some knowledge, he would keep his mouth shut on forums! ...as this is Hassy's own wish! ...there is no other motivation than one revealing himself as to be a "show-off" if he tries to concentrate the lights on him instead of the product itself... is there? ;) Especially if he might as well be liar trying to advance his own image with respect to the product!
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Do you even know who Nick T is?
About time you took your own advise and shut the hell up about things you do not know or understand.
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Do you even know who Nick T is?
About time you took your own advise and shut the hell up about things you do not know or understand.
You only have to contact Nick and tell us what Hassy's new release is... or Nick himself... otherwise there was no motivation about the post!
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Hmm.
Fact, Nick has close links with Hasselblad.
Or the opposite....
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Dear moderators,
If you can't be bothered to actually moderate the forum, could we please ask for an "Ignore user" button?
The quality of content dramatically increases with a bullshit filter in place, hence.
Thanks in advance!
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Dear moderators,
If you can't be bothered to actually moderate the forum, could we please ask for an "Ignore user" button?
The quality of content dramatically increases with a bullshit filter in place, hence.
Thanks in advance!
You still can contact Nick and tell us what the new product is all about... Is it a KIA or it can compare with your Ferrari?
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Just wondering why NickT's thread "What Hasselblad *won't* be announcing on the 22nd" was moved to the Coffee Corner?
It is after all the only informed contribution to what this camera is going to be here on LuLa!
I believe it was moved so that the [pick your description] who want to joke about Lunars and Stellars can have a private place to giggle among themselves.
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I am moving it back. Sorry, I got grumpy too last night.
BTW
There is indeed an Ignore function which has always been there. Go to your Profile and under Modify Profile you will see Buddies/Ignore List. Click on Edit Ignore List and add the user you wish to ignore
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I think its pretty obvious Nick knows exactly what is coming and posts as much as he is allowed to under NDA. I'm pretty sure he checked with Hassi about writing about the X-Pan and it makes sense. The whole idea of a panoramic camera was a huge idea, but not realistic. It would have been a disappointment for a lot if it wasn't one. So know we already know it isn't one and I think that plays into Hassi's plan.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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Whatever they bring, I am hoping that it's got a large sensor and not 3::2 crop ratio! Square would be my first choice. I love the color from the Hasselblad natural color.
If Hasselblad is really reading every post then can I just say please bring back the CF line of backs! I've been using the CF-22 and 39 multishot backs for a long while and love them. The universal mount with adapter plates is a great idea.
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Whatever they bring, I am hoping that it's got a large sensor and not 3::2 crop ratio! Square would be my first choice. I love the color from the Hasselblad natural color.
If Hasselblad is really reading every post then can I just say please bring back the CF line of backs! I've been using the CF-22 and 39 multishot backs for a long while and love them. The universal mount with adapter plates is a great idea.
+1000
I agree, CF line was the best ever made ... It's a good time to return ;)
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We'll see us well-known chip (50mpix) Or ... 72Mpix Sony matrix, all enclosed in a fairly awaited construction. I expect the second option because it is more likely (target group) :D
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We'll see us well-known chip (50mpix) Or ... 72Mpix Sony matrix, all enclosed in a fairly awaited construction. I expect the second option because it is more likely (target group) :D
Sony Semi has 50mp and 100mp "mf" sensors...
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Sony Semi has 50mp and 100mp "mf" sensors...
Yes, I know, but I do not expect MF... Of course, I'd love to, but that would mean price revolution :-)
Have you heard about the new matrix which is expected to Sony A9?
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Yes, I know, but I do not expect MF... Of course, I'd love to, but that would mean price revolution :-)
Have you heard about the new matrix which is expected to Sony A9?
one more FF dSLM is hardly a game changer... but MF dSLM might be
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Yes, I know, but I do not expect MF... Of course, I'd love to, but that would mean price revolution :-)
Have you heard about the new matrix which is expected to Sony A9?
look at fujirumors. the Hassy OEM seems to be getting a hissy fit and threatening a launch of its own.
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look at fujirumors. the Hassy OEM seems to be getting a hissy fit and threatening a launch of its own.
I'll be more than happy :-) Of course, there is also the possibility that it will be a mod for Moto Z :-D
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You are going to want to have your credit cards ready:
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Actually I would love to, but I fear it won't be changing enough for me.
I really don't need a first generation MFML camera with a fixed 50MP sensor and expensive new lenses. Why would I bother to spent that money ? I have a back with 80 and 100 and could always add a Sony with either 43 or perhaps soon 75...
So what would I actually buy ? First of only a system I could use my existing lenses. Which for MF means Phase and for 36 it would mean canon/Sony/Nikon.
I can't imagine it being 36 as I cannot imagine song giving away their newest and best design before using it them self.
Well w'll see soon enough and I won't be to unhappy if I am proven wrong in some points.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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I guess non disclosure agreements don't preclude cute hints. It's a bit annoying, I think.
If you're not allowed to say anything, what's the point of telling people so?
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Well there is a great deal of speculation and I wan't to signal to people that they should be excited about what's coming on another forumI have had very positive feedback for revealing what little I can. I'm sorry I come across as annoying. You can go into your profile settings and choose "ignore".
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I guess non disclosure agreements don't preclude cute hints. It's a bit annoying, I think.
If you're not allowed to say anything, what's the point of telling people so?
He's just saying to have faith that it's not just marketing BS. Nick has always been a helpful straight shooter on these boards and I appreciate the heads-up that this might be one to watch.
My guesses/wishes of things that would be game-changers/firsts:
Using all MF lenses
(Price/simplicity advantage over Alpa FPS + DB + adapters?)
Rotating Sensor
(Not a first, but please anyway)
Large sensor / price breakthrough
All-sensor PDAF
(One of biggest weaknesses of MF)
Small MF camera
(Fuji 645, Mamiya 6/7)
Mini CAPcam controlled by smartphone
(Yeah right!)
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I have funds ready for a new MF system, but I will be buying only after the Photokina. I already booked a hotel there. Who knows what else will be introduced before and at Kina. Maybe I will decide to buy a new multi shot back to use on my currently used cameras. And get a new Leica M , a new Leica Vario or a prosumer Hasselblad for fun.
The artists want to present their work in Social Media more often than before, the catalogues are still A4 and A3, and we do proper copying work less often. The True color workflow and output are still important for our work, around 40 megapixels is about right and we stitch, if feel the need and it's easy.
Yevgeny
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Let's also hope that for once the hype is not directly proportional to how incomplete the system is at launch...
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Let's also hope that for once the hype is not directly proportional to how incomplete the system is at launch...
And now the heavy-hitting cynics arrive.
Edmund's law of perfect cameras: No system is perfect until it is obsolete, and the most useful parts get hoarded.
Edmund's first corollary about happy users: Every perfect system has mainly aging "mourners" who use it, and naysayers who urge users to "move on".
The Contax 645 example is left as an exercise to be worked out in detail by the reader.
Edmund
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Well there is a great deal of speculation and I wan't to signal to people that they should be excited about what's coming on another forumI have had very positive feedback for revealing what little I can. I'm sorry I come across as annoying. You can go into your profile settings and choose "ignore".
hi Nick,
Speaking just for myself, I appreciate your inputs, keep posting! :)
Cheers,
Bernard
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That image on the youtube teaser page appears to be the top view of the grip area looking down on a shutter release / lcd display...
It does not look like a front view of a prism and mount area... Should be fun to see the reveal.
Robb
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hi Nick,
Speaking just for myself, I appreciate your inputs, keep posting! :)
Cheers,
Bernard
+1
And from Hasselblad today
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/hasselblad-ceo-words-new-medium-format-camera/
"You are a professional photographer and have been working with Hasselblad ? The story of the legendary Hasselblad and the world of photography is rewritten on Wednesday .
You are not a professional photographer and therefore are not interested in Hasselblad ? That is what you should be doing on Wednesday .
You've always flirted with the medium format , but had good reasons not to make the move ? Then you should see the live stream necessarily .
In short, if your passion of photography and uncompromising image quality belongs , then you can not miss the live stream from Wednesday!
On Wednesday, the world of photography is a new dimension"
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He he he... they are pretty good at teasing!
Cheers,
Bernard
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+1
And from Hasselblad today
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/hasselblad-ceo-words-new-medium-format-camera/
"You are a professional photographer and have been working with Hasselblad ? The story of the legendary Hasselblad and the world of photography is rewritten on Wednesday .
You are not a professional photographer and therefore are not interested in Hasselblad ? That is what you should be doing on Wednesday .
You've always flirted with the medium format , but had good reasons not to make the move ? Then you should see the live stream necessarily .
In short, if your passion of photography and uncompromising image quality belongs , then you can not miss the live stream from Wednesday!
On Wednesday, the world of photography is a new dimension"
Not sure if those line go together very well, at least from a professional photographers point of view. Not excited at all, the only thing (and that´s probably not going to happen) would be a much larger physical sensor size. But curious to see what they think a "game changer" would look like in that glut of toys we already have at our disposal.
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Pretty obvious now, it'll be a mirrorless dual-sensor camera. 3D (get ready for the onslaught of VR headsets...), maybe wide aspect with a stitch.
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The "game changer" bit I think consists of two things:
1) the first MF mirrorless system camera (noone counts tech cameras)
2) priced for a volume-based business model, aimed at consumers
That is basically a Sony A7 / Leica SL with MF-sized sensor, probably 44x33.
If they fulfill that, I will agree that it is a game changer.
If you're a pro studio photographer shooting H system today, you're not the target market, in fact no current MF user is. This is for consumers that think about buying a Sony A7 or Leica SL but wants something even beefier.
For advanced users it could prove a good alternative to the A7r used on Actus/Universalis or with adapters with various lenses, but that's a niche use which probably will only make up a fraction of the sales although it will be big in forums like this.
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The "game changer" bit I think consists of two things:
1) the first MF mirrorless system camera (noone counts tech cameras)
2) priced for a volume-based business model, aimed at consumers
That is basically a Sony A7 / Leica SL with MF-sized sensor, probably 44x33.
If they fulfill that, I will agree that it is a game changer.
If you're a pro studio photographer shooting H system today, you're not the target market, in fact no current MF user is. This is for consumers that think about buying a Sony A7 or Leica SL but wants something even beefier.
For advanced users it could prove a good alternative to the A7r used on Actus/Universalis or with adapters with various lenses, but that's a niche use which probably will only make up a fraction of the sales although it will be big in forums like this.
I agree too that this would be a game changer.
Key are the lenses. If the new camera does not use the H-mount it should allow H-Lenses through an adapter and ideally also Leica, Phase, Contax, etc lenses.
From a marketing point of view this should be presented as a camera that is complimentary to the H6D as to not alienate/upset the existing user base.
It would also be nice if the new camera (just like the Leica S) allows the use of HC lenses in both central shutter and focal plane mode.
It is a mystery to me to why the H6D still does not do that...
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I agree too that this would be a game changer.
Key are the lenses. If the new camera does not use the H-mount it should allow H-Lenses through an adapter and ideally also Leica, Phase, Contax, etc lenses.
From a marketing point of view this should be presented as a camera that is complimentary to the H6D as to not alienate/upset the existing user base.
It would also be nice if the new camera (just like the Leica S) allows the use of HC lenses in both central shutter and focal plane mode.
It is a mystery to me to why the H6D still does not do that...
a focal plane shutter on the H6 would have required a body redesign; however the H body will be deprecated eventually so Hassy is smart about not investing too much there. Let's face it, everybody realizes that in classical optical viewfinder MF Phase will be the only man standing, quite soon - on the other hand Hassy is aiming to become the A7 of medium format - and Sony has shown that high-end mirrorless has an audience.
Edmund
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in fact no current MF user is.
2nd systems market is a decent market by itself with many segments... so why many current MF users, 'd not want to have a this as a 2nd, more portable MF sized (sensor) system ?
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2nd systems market is a decent market by itself with many segments... so why many current MF users, 'd not want to have a this as a 2nd, more portable MF sized (sensor) system ?
I am an MF user and I just indicated a few posts ago how this makes sense to me as a second body.
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Let's face it, everybody realizes that in classical optical viewfinder MF Phase will be the only man standing, quite soon - on the other hand Hassy is aiming to become the A7 of medium format
Edmund
Passing off personal opinion as fact once again, are we?
It has been discussed here a few times how the XF has enough contacts to support an EVF at some point. You also do not know if they have a mirrorless platform in development.
Hasselblad's announcement is not even done and you're already assuming that they will drop the SLR lineup? How do you know if this is not a complimentary product and not a replacement?
Also, what about Pentax? They haven't even started thinking beyond the OVF.
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2nd systems market is a decent market by itself with many segments... so why many current MF users, 'd not want to have a this as a 2nd, more portable MF sized (sensor) system ?
Sure, there will be. But I don't think their focus group concerning "what does the market need?" has been existing MF users. I think their goal is to grab users from those that buy into high MP 135 because they can't afford a H6 system and/or think it's too bulky and lacks typical consumer features. Pentax 645z has the price, but it's even bulkier.
I think high MP 135 has become an extremely popular segment, so a mirrorless consumer-oriented MF camera priced reasonably (my guess is $8.5k) should be just right.
There's still a risk that they go down the luxury path though (afterall the current CEO has that background), but then the word "game changer" would be totally wrong.
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Sure, there will be. But I don't think their focus group concerning "what does the market need?" has been existing MF users. I think their goal is to grab users from those that buy into high MP 135 because they can't afford a H6 system and/or think it's too bulky and lacks typical consumer features. Pentax 645z has the price, but it's even bulkier.
I think high MP 135 has become an extremely popular segment, so a mirrorless consumer-oriented MF camera priced reasonably (my guess is $8.5k) should be just right.
There's still a risk that they go down the luxury path though (afterall the current CEO has that background), but then the word "game changer" would be totally wrong.
so do we have any bets on body alone price and if the system gets at least one prime at release - the price of it ?
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I think their goal is to grab users from those that buy into high MP 135
and who are those now ? either Canon 5Ds/r @ 50mp or Sony A7R2 @ 42mp or N D8xx @ 36mp ... so w/ what you grab them really just with 44x33 @ 50mp ? when those C & N & S have multiple native lenses and multiple (Sony) adapters and tons (specifally for C&N) accessories = or will H go for a kill with 100mp Sony sensor to make the gap ? or H will throw multishot, etc ?
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and who are those now ? either Canon 5Ds/r @ 50mp or Sony A7R2 @ 42mp or N D8xx @ 36mp ... so w/ what you grab them really just with 44x33 @ 50mp ? when those C & N & S have multiple native lenses and multiple (Sony) adapters and tons (specifally for C&N) accessories = or will H go for a kill with 100mp Sony sensor to make the gap ? or H will throw multishot, etc ?
My best guess is that they indeed will compete with 44x33mm 50MP Sony. Might not be the most impressive number, but it's medium format and it's Hasselblad. I don't think they will need the highest numbers or longest feature list to win substantial amount of customers (Leica does fine too, with even less impressive numbers), and I guess if they get 1% of those that otherwise buy Sony A7r it's still a huge success, they're just on an entirely different volume. If the rumor that it's manufactured in Sweden is true, it's not going to be a huge volume product, but I think it can have the potential to be a larger seller than their H6. So when I say "mass market", "large volume" I mean compared to Hassy/Phase today, rather than what Canon/Nikon/Sony sells.
For those that look deeply into performance past the numbers, it will be much about lens availability and quality, so I think it can perform really well compared to the high MP 135 cameras. I'm sure we will in time have lots of comparisons.
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Looks like the cat may be out of the bag by one seller jumping the gun...
I have no reason to believe that this is fake and it is starting to get posted on various forums around the Internet
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if you google "hasselblad x1d" this comes up :D
link doesn't work yet though...
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Looks like the cat may be out of the bag by one seller jumping the gun...
I have no reason to believe that this is fake and it is starting to get posted on various forums around the Internet
My guess of 44x33mm mirrorless for $8.5k was not too bad then. 500 dollars off. Interesting to see the dedicated lenses, 45 and 90mm lenses. A good start, but people are going to want a killer wide angle.
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if you google "hasselblad x1d" this comes up :D
link doesn't work yet though...
Google cache still has it:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:82YXbWCmU3cJ:www.hasselblad.com/inspiration/gallery/x1d-gallery/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:82YXbWCmU3cJ:www.hasselblad.com/inspiration/gallery/x1d-gallery/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari)
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Interesting to see the dedicated lenses, 45 and 90mm lenses. A good start, but people are going to want a killer wide angle.
Yes, key in the announcement will be any words on how they plan to build out the system.
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But … where is the knob of the second published photo?
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But … where is the knob of the second published photo?
Good question... maybe it's behind the shutter button and pops up when you press it? Seems like it could match the photo.
Maybe there is a wide angle too, the screen shot doesn't show what's below the 45 and 90 mm lens. Releasing it with three lenses seems more natural than only two.
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But … where is the knob of the second published photo?
There appears to be a low flat dial behind the shutter button on the top panel - perhaps it is that.
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Maybe there is a wide angle too, the screen shot doesn't show what's below the 45 and 90 mm lens. Releasing it with three lenses seems more natural than only two.
I don't think so, here is a grab from a different post online:
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Looks nice, glad to see they kept the 3:4 ratio. (I despise 2:3)
I would be interested in holding one; I have to assume it is physically bigger then the Sony A series, which I find too small to hold comfortably. Also, I wonder what kind of lens adapters will be available? Will you be able to mount older or custom lenses (like that Schneider 105mm f/2 projection lens that created such nice images)?
(I wonder who is going to loose their dealership license for releasing this early?)
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If only Capture One supported it.... :-[
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If only Capture One supported it.... :-[
+1 on that; I would never be able to ever give up C1 workflow.
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Focal Flange Distance seems extremely short. Almost like SWC.
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Sure would be nice with a WA lens.............I hope its not like Leica whereby they show you the camera today and it will be in the shops 12 months later :)
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+1 on that; I would never be able to ever give up C1 workflow.
As much as I want this, its definitely not going to happen. I expect a mirrorless camera from Phase One very soon (6 months ish)
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As much as I want this, its definitely not going to happen. I expect a mirrorless camera from Phase One very soon (6 months ish)
I would pretty soon expect a similar camera from Fuji as well...
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Based on the screenshot and assuming a 44x33mm sensor I've done some approximate measurements:
Body is 135x82x22mm (plus viewfinder and lens mount bump). The mount builds about 7mm, but the sensor can't be too deep into the body either to fit the back screen, so I'd guess the flange distance is around 20mm.
For comparison, Sony A7r: 127 x 94 x 48 mm (bumps included), so the Hassy is similar in size. Flange distance is probably in the same range too, so it looks good for adaptability.
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Honestly, sure we don't know all the details yet, but I don't really know if this really is a "game changer".
The price is great, however, that really is all. Yes it's smaller and lighter but even more is the Sony.
Well let's wait for more information. Before I judge it to much.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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I'm curious if the lenses will support the resolution. I'm not impressed with the H Series of glass, especially the wide angles.
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I'm curious if the lenses will support the resolution. I'm not impressed with the H Series of glass, especially the wide angles.
If you're not impressed by the H glass, then I think there will be a problem. I doubt they have a radically different lens philosophy for these. However the flange distance is shorter, so it's easier to make good wide angles. The 45mm is not really a wide angle with this sensor though, so I guess we'll have to wait and see...
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Honestly, sure we don't know all the details yet, but I don't really know if this really is a "game changer".
The price is great, however, that really is all.
Let's say it's the 44x33mm 50MP Sony, with feature set and screen similar to H6. It's extremely likely that that's the case, they're not large enough to throw out radically different designs.
I still think it's a game changer. Low price, mirrorless, compact and light (it seems), short flange distance. What more do you want?
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The mount builds about 7mm, but the sensor can't be too deep into the body either to fit the back screen, so I'd guess the flange distance is around 20mm.
There is a marking where the sensor is.
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Let's say it's the 44x33mm 50MP Sony, with feature set and screen similar to H6. It's extremely likely that that's the case, they're not large enough to throw out radically different designs.
I still think it's a game changer. Low price, mirrorless, compact and light (it seems), short flange distance. What more do you want?
Let's use these specs. Great camera, great price. Not sure about the focal length of both lenses. What I hoped for was a wide variety adapters for all kind of Medium Format lenses. If I have to buy new lenses again I can wait for the next sony. Which will come sooner rather then later.
Don't get me wrong its a grteat package, but I really wouldn't call it a game changer so far.
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I would not be surprised if this camera would be made in cooperation with Fujinon and using Fujinon lenses.
Best regards
Erik
If you're not impressed by the H glass, then I think there will be a problem. I doubt they have a radically different lens philosophy for these. However the flange distance is shorter, so it's easier to make good wide angles. The 45mm is not really a wide angle with this sensor though, so I guess we'll have to wait and see...
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I don't really know if this really is a "game changer".
it for sure has a chance to be the one for H financials though....
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from mirrorlessrumors:
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So that's it. Looks interesting although I was hoping for an optical/hybrid viewfinder... and more MP ;)
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No normal lens? That is kind of weird. I have to expect a ~65mm is in development.
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Why are all "sample" photos cropped to square ?
If they are real sample photos ^^
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If that's 44x33 the system will be limited to that size forever because the sensor already is maxing out the mount diameter.
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If that's 44x33 the system will be limited to that size forever because the sensor already is maxing out the mount diameter.
same thought. But the same goes for the Leica S
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from mirrorlessrumors:
So that's it. Looks interesting although I was hoping for an optical/hybrid viewfinder... and more MP ;)
Those are the same pictures from the same camera seller posted earlier. All of the photos of the new camera are from exactly the same source.
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(http://www.hulyssbowman.com/Savings/XD-1one.jpg)
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Those are their same pictures from the same camera seller posted earlier. All of the photos of the new camera are from exactly the same source.
Yes and the last place I would preorder. ;) Don't think they will get any Hassi cameras soon.
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I wonder if the lenses are designed to accomidate the crop factor of the sensor?
I wish them all the best with this.
Paul C
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There is a marking where the sensor is.
Ahh, then it seems pretty close to 20mm or even shorter. Sony's E-mount is 18mm.
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I wonder if the lenses are designed to accomidate the crop factor of the sensor?
I wish them all the best with this.
Paul C
It looks like they are and not much more as the lens mount looks just barely big enough for the sensor. A larger sensor like the 100mp sensor (assuming this camera is using the 50mp sensor) would require a bigger exit pupil than this mount seems it could support just from looking at the pictures.
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Let's use these specs. Great camera, great price. Not sure about the focal length of both lenses. What I hoped for was a wide variety adapters for all kind of Medium Format lenses. If I have to buy new lenses again I can wait for the next sony. Which will come sooner rather then later.
Don't get me wrong its a grteat package, but I really wouldn't call it a game changer so far.
As always with Hasselblad (and many other manufacturers) the announce things early, before they can deliver even the camera itself. I would be extremely surprised if not a H-mount adapter comes along, and then other adapters could be made by themselves or third parties if there's substantial demand. And there will of course be an Actus/Arca adapter for this.
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If this has a Sony quality evf, wifi, and hc lens compatibility via adapter, I'm trading my h5d-50c wifi. What do you think?
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Bigger
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/LB1.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/LB2.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/LB3.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/LB4.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/LB5.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/LB6.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/LB7.jpg)
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If that's 44x33 the system will be limited to that size forever because the sensor already is maxing out the mount diameter.
It's almost certainly that, otherwise the camera requires very big hands :-).
This limit is somewhat expected though, and I'm sure the glass is designed only for 44x33 ("APS-C" lenses). Afterall this is supposed to be a cheaper consumer camera, and not compete with the main system which still is the H6.
Sure we could have wanted to see a 645 full-frame mount, but that would be surprising. The mirrorbox still has a few years left in the pro segment...
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All this nice sample photos in SQUARE … the whole design of the camera in SQUARE … this strange focal lengths of 45 and 90 ...
… are we missing something?
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All this nice sample photos in SQUARE … the whole design of the camera in SQUARE … this strange focal lengths of 45 and 90 ...
… are we missing something?
Hasselblad has always had square crop modes in their V-mount digital backs, even if the sensor shoots 4:3 natively. This camera has square crop mode for sure, and from a marketing perspective it's a good idea to show square images, and I think the design is very successful in making it look classical Hassy. But it's surely a 4:3 camera, just look at the images where you see the sensor. It wouldn't make sense to make a custom 33x33 sensor for this, as it would cost more than the volume-based 44x33 off-the-shelf sensor.
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I think you are right … makes sense. Very intelligent design decision, to work with the Hasselblad DNA, they obviously have learned from their Lunar disaster.
it only crossed my mind for a second, they maybe, maybe have made a 56x56.
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I dont understand the obsession with square digital format requiring a square sensor. It's called cropping! I have clients who like squares, and that is what we do. I have a square crop on my viewfinder, I compose the image to square and we crop the sides in C1.
The reason square format was chosen so many years ago by Hassy, and Rollie, was because their cameras had WLV, and it is quite difficult to shoot a vertical with a WLV without cropping. It was never meant that square was the format of choose for those cameras.
Also, since we now live in the digital realm, the "no cropping" rule also makes no sense. Once again, this principal was more about practicality, not a strict working style never to be violated, since if your image went to print, articulating the crop to the printer making the mechanical/plates would be very difficult. It was just easier to shoot without cropping, but now ...
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I'd hardly characterize this as a "game changer..."
(I have no horse in the race - As soon as I heard mirrorless, I knew I wasn't going to buy one anyway. So I'm not disappointed; just commenting that the breathless marketing by Hasselblad and hyping by one of the frequent posters here doesn't appear to have been lived up to.)
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I'd hardly characterize this as a "game changer..."
(I have no horse in the race - As soon as I heard mirrorless, I knew I wasn't going to buy one anyway. So I'm not disappointed; just commenting that the breathless marketing by Hasselblad and hyping by one of the frequent posters here doesn't appear to have been lived up to.)
Completely agree with you. I'm more excited by an upcoming fixed lens Fuji MF camera.
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Completely agree with you. I'm more excited by an upcoming fixed lens Fuji MF camera.
Pretty sure it won't be a fixed lens one.
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Completely agree with you. I'm more excited by an upcoming fixed lens Fuji MF camera.
It's hard not to get excited about a "game changer" from Fuji. They have a very well integrated system design. Hopefully they will also come in with a bit more of a real world price point as they have with other cameras.
The only issue I see, is that more than likely C1/Phase will not support it. So that leaves Adobe and if Fuji goes X-trans that will be a problem. Adobe has a less than stellar raw conversion for the x-trans raw from the Fuji APS-C cameras and I have not a bit of hope that they will do anything different for this platform.
Paul C
s
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Look at the new lenses for the X1. I believe that those are Fuji manufactured lenses. If that's right, I would expect that any Fuji medium format mirrorless body will be a Fuji branded version of the X1. This is exactly what occured with the Hasselblad H1. Fuji collaborated with Hasselblad on the H Series and had its own branded version of the H1 and HC lenses that it sold only in Japan.
The chances of Phase One providing Capture One support for any medium format competitor is zero.
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Is it just me or does anyone else not see the dial that was on the second teaser picture released by Hasselblad? Is this "leaked" picture fake or is their a second camera out there?
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Is it just me or does anyone else not see the dial that was on the second teaser picture released by Hasselblad? Is this "leaked" picture fake or is their a second camera out there?
The dial is behind the shutter button, you can see it in the perspective picture. However it's sunken down into the chassis. So probably it pops up when you press it, then you select something with it, and press it again to move it out of the way.
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From the photo, where you can see the sensor, one could come to the conclusion, that there is no focal plane shutter (again), or is it a global shutter?
If this camera depends on lenses with build in shutters, that would limit the adaptability drastically.
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how does everyone like the look of the camera (if this is real). for me the lenses are too big compared to the body, and I don't like it too much on the look. But besides that they have done a great job. still like smaller lenses on a bigger body (Leica M, Mamiya 7). I still think design is an important selling point in the area Hasselblad is aiming. one of the reasons why some camera makes selling better than others.
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how does everyone like the look of the camera (if this is real). for me the lenses are too big compared to the body, and I don't like it too much on the look. But besides that they have done a great job. still like smaller lenses on a bigger body (Leica M, Mamiya 7). I still think design is an important selling point in the area Hasselblad is aiming. one of the reasons why some camera makes selling better than others.
If you want to have good lenses for a 50MP sensor you need a certain size, especially if you want to have fast lenses.
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If you want to have good lenses for a 50MP sensor you need a certain size, especially if you want to have fast lenses.
this is not true, as those lenses are not fast...autofocus makes lenses bigger...mamiya 7 lenses look smaller than those here.
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Design-wise, for me, it seems a mixed bag. I like the reminescence of SWC (although you miss the back…), but from behind it seems like a Leica T. Strange. Touch screen, but also with buttons and wheels.
I had some (totally unfounded) hope that Zeiss will come back for lenses. I am not a fan of Fuji-Hasselblad lenses. Its obvious that they try to keep the lenses small (3,2/3,5, corresponding to 2,5/2,8 in 35 terms) which makes sense, also price-wise. I personally like lenses with smaller DOF.
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Design-wise, for me, it seems a mixed bag. I like the reminescence of SWC (although you miss the back…), but from behind it seems like a Leica T. Strange. Touch screen, but also with buttons and wheels.
I had some (totally unfounded) hope that Zeiss will come back for lenses. I am not a fan o Fuji-Hasselblad lenses. Its obvious that they try to keep the lenses small (3,2/3,5, corresponding to 2,5/2,8 in 35 terms) which makes sense, also price-wise. I personally like lenses with smaller DOF.
can just aggree 100%...also the DOF of a 35mm Format lens at 1,4 will be nicer than it might be from one of those lenses. also wondering about the time Hasselblad is announcing this? is it just they want to be the first, as Fuji announces a similiar system (with same lenses) at photokina or why not wait till Photokina if it is such a game changer and be the "star" when there is the full fair press buzz about cams...
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Yes and the last place I would preorder. ;) Don't think they will get any Hassi cameras soon.
Well, your loss. KM camera are one of the two legendary camera stores of NYC left in business. Robert Frank goes there for goodness sake!
The other is Jeff Hirsch at Fotocare, who, between him and Peter at KM, cover every great photographer in the city. Just you keep on shopping at B&H if you want. All the easier for the rest of us to get really knowledgeable personal attention.
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Well, your loss. KM camera are one of the two legendary camera stores of NYC left in business. Robert Frank goes there for goodness sake!
The other is Jeff Hirsch at Fotocare, who, between him and Peter at KM, cover every great photographer in the city. Just you keep on shopping at B&H if you want. All the easier for the rest of us to get really knowledgeable personal attention.
Great for you. I actually wouldn't want to buy anything in the US if I don't have to. To many electronic products have a way shorter warranty.
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I'm a big fan of what this camera appears to be, and the pricing is in the realm of reason like the Pentax 645 digitals. I'm very excited to see what adapters pop up for this body too, there's lots of great glass out there.
How hard would it be to include a shutter in an adapter if indeed the native lenses have the shutter build in?
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I'm a big fan of what this camera appears to be, and the pricing is in the realm of reason like the Pentax 645 digitals. I'm very excited to see what adapters pop up for this body too, there's lots of great glass out there.
How hard would it be to include a shutter in an adapter if indeed the native lenses have the shutter build in?
I don't know exactly, but my guess would be pretty hard and expensive.
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Might I just point out that the Alpa FPS has provided an MF mirrorless solution to many of us for years. It's sitting right beside me now as I take a coffee break on location!
Currently setup for 100mp with 60mm lens. Focal plane shutter and Zeiss optical finder. No EVF as yet, but it's pretty obvious that's coming soon.
Just sayin' !
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Just sayin' !
So what did that cost, and how much does it weigh? ;)
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Hi,
Good point…
But the X1D is a fully integrated camera with a much lower price tag. That is not saying the FPS is not great, just saying that the X1D is different.
Would I buy? I don't know! A lot of money for another platform. I am quite happy with the A7rII I have now. Also, I have spent to much on the A7rII to junp on another train.
I would guess that we will see a Fujinon sibling pretty soon.
Anyway, it seems that some new things are coming from Hasselblad and that is great to see!
Best regards
Erik
Might I just point out that the Alpa FPS has provided an MF mirrorless solution to many of us for years. It's sitting right beside me now as I take a coffee break on location!
Currently setup for 100mp with 60mm lens. Focal plane shutter and Zeiss optical finder. No EVF as yet, but it's pretty obvious that's coming soon.
Just sayin' !
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can just aggree 100%...also the DOF of a 35mm Format lens at 1,4 will be nicer than it might be from one of those lenses.
To me the look of fast lenses are overrated, or rather like grunge HDR -- made boring through it's overuse. I'm not particularly fond of portraits when only a slit at the eyes are in focus, or totally blurring out the background. To me it's more refined taste to stop down a little. As long as these new lenses have great quality wide open, which I'm sure they have, then I have no problem with their "small" largest aperture.
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The only real advantage I can see in mirrorless for MFD is the possibility to reach critical focus handhold. On the tripod, LW on the rear screen works just fine.
The compactness argument had proven nearly false already with the A7, as at the end, equipment weight has a lot to do with lenses and here physical laws can't be fooled (at least if you do not invent something like the Nikon 300 PF...)
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But... this is MF digital forum, we don't discuss price do we?!
It weighs less than an XF, but more than this new Hassy. But has twice as many pixels, so it has to be heavier, right?! :)
and... has an extraordinary range of lenses. (All of Canon, Nikon, most of Hasselblad, Rodenstock, Schneider, etc)
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Hasselblad is probably laughing right now as the new camera doesn't have 50MP but the new 100Mp. That would be a game changer. Especially below 9K ;)
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If this price is correct, it is a real danger for their new H6D 50MP (27.000 EUR), especially IF it will allow the use of H lenses.
If it's a 100MP sensor it would be a game changer and suicide ...
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To me the look of fast lenses are overrated, or rather like grunge HDR -- made boring through it's overuse. I'm not particularly fond of portraits when only a slit at the eyes are in focus, or totally blurring out the background. To me it's more refined taste to stop down a little. As long as these new lenses have great quality wide open, which I'm sure they have, then I have no problem with their "small" largest aperture.
So true. There are trade offs between how fast a lens is and its size/weight. For my photography needs, I am way more interested in somewhat slower but smaller/lighter lenses. The Hasselblad X1D seems to check that box. Compare the Leica SL.....what were they thinking? A 35mm FF mirrorless with lenses the size of bazookas.
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If this price is correct, it is a real danger for their new H6D 50MP (27.000 EUR), especially IF it will allow the use of H lenses.
I think it will allow for H lenses via adapter, almost certainly, although the adapter may not be immediately available.
It will still be (almost) as little threat to H6D-50c as the CFV-50c (which is at $10k). Why? They've surely removed some features that professional studio photographers need (which is the H6D-50c focus group), but enthusiasts don't. Perhaps there no possibility to tether for example. I also think that most studio professionals actually like to hold a SLR with a "real" viewfinder still for some time.
If this camera is successful, perhaps in the longer term it will set a new standard for medium format pricing and the H systems will go down in price too (aiming for more volume). That would be nice...
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Hasselblad is probably laughing right now as the new camera doesn't have 50MP but the new 100Mp. That would be a game changer. Especially below 9K ;)
Lets hope so!
As a camera for architecture it will be perfect mounted to a mini view camera but with a 1.3 crop sensor no so great and the much talked about Sony A9 would fit better IMO.
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I don't think you can compare this camera with the CFV 50c back. We are talking of a whole camera with EVF. The CFV 50c is nice for tech cams (cross talk included) and the Hasselblad "oldtimers" (I have 3 of them), but with all the problems involved (focus precision, legacy lenses made for film and another format, etc.)
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I'm a bit puzzled by the lens FL choices for the 1st 2 releases.
For a 33x44 sensor the horizontal FOV is ~35mm equiv for the 45mm and an odd 70mm for the 90mm. Perhapa good for a short macro but it's not listed as a macro
For the 40x54 sensor it's ~30mm for the 45mm lens and 60mm for the longer, closer to a normal FL. Perhaps more typical choices if there is such a thing
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I don't think you can compare this camera with the CFV 50c back. We are talking of a whole camera with EVF. The CFV 50c is nice for tech cams (cross talk included) and the Hasselblad "oldtimers" (I have 3 of them), but with all the problems involved (focus precision, legacy lenses made for film and another format, etc.)
Ok, that's fair points... but I still think they can "cripple" the camera enough to not really hurt the H6 series. I do worry that they've made a bit too good job crippling it though... we'll see when we get more details.
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I definitely think mirrorless is a huge deal for me. No mirror vibration! It kind of messes up the flow of my shoots to put the mirror up and then fire. I know I could say winding does the same thing, but I have to explain to models that the mirror going up isn't a shot, etc ... Also, with that tiny flange distance, I keep daydreaming about adaptation possibilities ... I have a CFV-50c and I'm not disappointed I didn't wait another half year for this, but this would have been what I aimed for when I purchased that. Also, I'm glad I went ahead and went V because the 40mm is wide enough for my needs, and I otherwise have a more diverse set of lenses.
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Hasselblad is probably laughing right now as the new camera doesn't have 50MP but the new 100Mp. That would be a game changer. Especially below 9K ;)
That would be truly fantastic, but it doesn't seem likely to me from the images as the camera would then be made for really big hands...
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That would be truly fantastic, but it doesn't seem likely to me from the images as the camera would then be made for really big hands...
One can dream till reality is certain. :)
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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Lets hope so!
As a camera for architecture it will be perfect mounted to a mini view camera but with a 1.3 crop sensor no so great and the much talked about Sony A9 would fit better IMO.
Don't know about the Sony being a better choice here. I think on CB's kit, with mostly medium format lenses, this would be a better option. I have to wonder what the color depth is? Of course, if you need to use Phocus ...
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From the photo, where you can see the sensor, one could come to the conclusion, that there is no focal plane shutter (again), or is it a global shutter?
If this camera depends on lenses with build in shutters, that would limit the adaptability drastically.
Mirrorless cameras, when the lens is removed, always have their sensors exposed. On a mirrorless camera, the shutter is normally open so that you a see the image in the EVF which comes off of the sensor. The shutter, in most cases is electronic for the first curtain and the shutter closes at the end of the exposure and then reopens to continue to show you an image in the EVF. In those cases where there is no electronic first curtain, the shutter curtain closes when you press the shutter button and then goes through a normal shutter curtain cycle to take the picture. Look at a front photo of just about any mirror less camera and you will see the sensor.
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... but I still think they can "cripple" the camera enough to not really hurt the H6 series. I do worry that they've made a bit too good job crippling it though... we'll see when we get more details.
Agree with that, tomorrow we'll know more
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Mirror less cameras. when the lens is removed always have their sensors exposed. On a mirror less camera, the shutter is open so that you a see the image in the EVF which comes of of the sensor. The shutter, in most cases the first curtain is electronic and the shutter closes at the end of the exposure and then reopens. In those cases where there is no electronic first curtain, the shutter curtain closes when you press the shutter button and then goes through a normal shutter curtain cycle to take the picture. Look at a front photo of just about any mirror less camera and you will see the sensor.
Sure, you are right .. so there is still hope, it has a focal plane shutter ...
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By the way, here is the direct link to the YouTube Live stream of the announcement:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tah8tiFLBZc (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tah8tiFLBZc)
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Hi,
I am not sure Hasselblad would cripple the X1D. My guess is that they want to sell as many as they can make. My guess is that it is a new market, not competing with the old one.
Best regards
Erik
Agree with that, tomorrow we'll know more
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Based on the picture:
- the sensor is not square,
- if the sensor is the Sony 50m part, then the camera has approximately the same size as the Sony a7rII.
Personally, I don't know yet if I am interested. This is interesting for sure, but I'd have to figure out where it fits in a possible complete redesign of my camera line up. The Kina should give us more visibility about where things are going.
An interesting side effect, if this is successful (and I bet it will be) could be to give Hassy the financial means to lower the prices of the H6D in a few months. This camera has the potential to completely change the MF landscape within a year.
I bet Hassy will be able to negotiate better sensor prices from Sony than P1 due to the much larger of parts they will be ordering. Taking into account the additional cash inflow, they will be able to spread R&D costs over a larger number of bodies and true MF could go down in prices by another 20-30% which would make high end Hassy twice cheaper than P1 bodies.
The strategy is crystal clear. Get people to buy one of these with a couple of native lenses, release an adapter for H lenses that will make it possible to use the X body as a back up for the H one,... It's starting to make a lot of sense.
The only issue is Phocus, but it seems that version 3 is improved quite a bit.
Cheers,
Bernard
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If this price is correct, it is a real danger for their new H6D 50MP (27.000 EUR), especially IF it will allow the use of H lenses.
If it's a 100MP sensor it would be a game changer and suicide ...
It's 50mp. Crop (not full frame) medium format sensor.
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It's 50mp. Crop (not full frame) medium format sensor.
Is that inside information fact Doug?
HB's latest instagram post says "Want to get the full picture?" (stressing the word full) which I was hoping was referring to full frame MF.
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I guess we all know tomorrow for sure, but 99% sure it's the same old 50MP Sony sensor. No way with all the issues Sony has currently could a totally new chip have been developed and shipped. Nothing wrong with that 50MP chip, just don't feel you will be able to get a full frame chip in that body.
Paul C
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Maybe also they can reuse the trade-in chips ::)
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I guess we all know tomorrow for sure, but 99% sure it's the same old 50MP Sony sensor. No way with all the issues Sony has currently could a totally new chip have been developed and shipped. Nothing wrong with that 50MP chip, just don't feel you will be able to get a full frame chip in that body.
FF would make the lenses too large anyway.
Besides, Sony is likely to release a 70+ megapixel sensor for 35mm in the coming months that is likely to have as much DR as the current generation. This would mean more than 100mp in 44x33mm sized sensors when the next gen part becomes available. Who would ever need more than this for this type of camera?
Now, to me the key criteria will be the look of the lenses. I hope they went with Fuji designs.
Cheers,
Bernard
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It's 50mp. Crop (not full frame) medium format sensor.
So is the NEW H6D 50
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The only issue is Phocus, but it seems that version 3 is improved quite a bit.
or they can get reasonable and just supply Adobe with all the necessary info to handle their raws properly in ACR/LR... Fuji does supply Adobe with SDK for example... if they can't invest as much as P1 in C1 then it is time to call it quits on some fronts... even Nikon licensed GUI from ISL (SilkyPix) to save time & effort on basic stuff
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or they can get reasonable and just supply Adobe with all the necessary info to handle their raws properly in ACR/LR... Fuji does supply Adobe with SDK for example... if they can't invest as much as P1 in C1 then it is time to call it quits on some fronts... even Nikon licensed GUI from ISL (SilkyPix) to save time & effort on basic stuff
I thought Adobe already has all the necessary info to handle Hasselblad raws properly - is it not the case?
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The strategy is crystal clear. Get people to buy one of these with a couple of native lenses, release an adapter for H lenses that will make it possible to use the X body as a back up for the H one,... It's starting to make a lot of sense.
It is the same strategy as Leica with the S and the SL.
And key is indeed to position the X1D as complementary and as a back-up to the H6D, not as a replacement...
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It is the same strategy as Leica with the S and the SL.
And key is indeed to position the X1D as complementary and as a back-up to the H6D, not as a replacement...
Absolutely. I personally was never attracted by the SL because of the price and the fact that you get better images quality, smaller and more diverse lenses,... with an ar7II, but the Hassy X1D has no competition at this point in time.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Absolutely. I personally was never attracted by the SL because of the price and the fact that you get better images quality, smaller and more diverse lenses,... with an ar7II, but the Hassy X1D has no competition at this point in time.
Cheers,
Bernard
I bought into the Leica SL system and I don't regret it all. The 24-90mm zoom is excellent and very well balanced on the Leica SL.
If you have some time this is a pretty interesting review from a landscape photographer's perspective:
https://vieribottazzini.com/2016/06/landscape-photographer-in-depth-leica-sl-review.html
A good read and providing an accurate opinion about the system IMO.
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I guess we all know tomorrow for sure, but 99% sure it's the same old 50MP Sony sensor. No way with all the issues Sony has currently could a totally new chip have been developed and shipped. Nothing wrong with that 50MP chip, just don't feel you will be able to get a full frame chip in that body.
Paul C
As this is a mirrorless camera, we can assume they have phase-detect pixels on the sensor. At the very least this means a mod; and it also means that the 6D could/should be able to do phase-detect focus off its main sensor, now or with a sensor update. This is a game-changer for liveview photography and video on the 6D.
Edmund
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So the X1D is now priced a $8,995, the H5D-50c at $14,500 and the H6D-50c at $25,995.
Does that make sense if it is all one and the same sensor?
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If you have some time this is a pretty interesting review from an Italian landscape photographer:
https://vieribottazzini.com/2016/06/landscape-photographer-in-depth-leica-sl-review.html
I am sure that the SL is a nice camera, no doubt. I just don't see what it would bring me that my existing gear doesn't already do better.
I have read the article you linked to and, sorry, I am still not too convinced by the rationality of his arguments. ;)
He clearly explains why the SL is a good landscape camera, and I can agree with that, but besides for a few hundreds of gr of weight difference that are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when you do landscape work compared to all the other things you have to carry, he doesn't elaborate as to why the SL is a better option than the Sony/Nikon/Canon alternatives most of us have been using successfully.
But let's leave it at that here, this isn't the topic of this thread.
Cheers,
Bernard
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As this is a mirrorless camera, we can assume they have phase-detect pixels on the sensor. At the very least this means a mod; and it also means that the 6D could/should be able to do phase-detect focus off its main sensor, now or with a sensor update.
What if it were a manual focus camera?
Cheers,
Bernard
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What if it were a manual focus camera?
Cheers,
Bernard
The lenses look not manual at all
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The lenses look not manual at all
How different are they from an Otus for instance? They have a large focusing ring. Period.
I could be totally wrong, but I just don't think Hassy has the resources to develop a competitive on sensor AF system. In fact I am sure that they don't considering how long it took for much larger players to come up with something competitive.
Now it could be that Sony did it for them and that there is going to be a Sony AF camera leveraging the same sensor. This would make me a believer.
Putting it the other way around, if this camera has a good AF system IMHO we can be pretty sure that a Sony body with the same sensor isn't far off.
Cheers,
Bernard
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So the X1D is now priced a $8,995, the H5D-50c at $14,500 and the H6D-50c at $25,995.
Does that make sense if it is all one and the same sensor?
Crop-MF sensors are reasonably priced these days, especially the Sony 50 which should by now have paid of its R&D, and won't be competitive after Photokina. The whole MF price thing has become a joke, as you point out: The H6D mirrorbox costs $17 K?
Edmund
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How different are they from an Otus for instance? They have a large focusing ring. Period.
I could be totally wrong, but I just don't think Hassy has the resources to develop a competitive on sensor AF system. In fact I am sure that they don't considering how long it took for much larger players to come up with something competitive.
Now it could be that Sony did it for them and that there is going to be a Sony AF camera leveraging the same sensor. This would make me a believer.
Putting it the other way around, if this camera has a good AF system IMHO we can be pretty sure that a Sony body with the same sensor isn't far off.
Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard -
Of course Sony has done it for them. That's what Sony sells these days, drop-in sensors with a complete SDK to allow anyone to put together a camera with minimal effort. If their customers cannot leverage the chips, they lose sales.
On the other hand, this means Pentax, Phase, Fuji and anyone else can bring out a new mirrorless medium format camera with AF whenever they want.
Edmund
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How different are they from an Otus for instance? They have a large focusing ring. Period.
I could be totally wrong, but I just don't think Hassy has the resources to develop a competitive on sensor AF system. In fact I am sure that they don't considering how long it took for much larger players to come up with something competitive.
Now it could be that Sony did it for them and that there is going to be a Sony AF camera leveraging the same sensor. This would make me a believer.
Putting it the other way around, if this camera has a good AF system IMHO we can be pretty sure that a Sony body with the same sensor isn't far off.
Cheers,
Bernard
Only look at the glass diameter of the WA compared to that of the whole lens. What would they do with all this empty space?
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On the other hand, this means Pentax, Phase, Fuji and anyone else can bring out a new mirrorless medium format camera with AF whenever they want.
I would guess Fuji is pretty close as well...:
MIRRORLESS MEDIUM FORMAT :: Hasselblad will make the Start… but FUJIFILM’s Counterattack is (Almost) Ready !
http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-mirrorless-medium-format-camera-coming/
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Of course Sony has done it for them. That's what Sony sells these days, drop-in sensors with a complete SDK to allow anyone to put together a camera with minimal effort. If their customers cannot leverage the chips, they lose sales.
On the other hand, this means Pentax, Phase, Fuji and anyone else can bring out a new mirrorless medium format camera with AF whenever they want.
You are probably right, but then it means that there is a new version of the 50mp sensor. This wouldn't be surprising since the initial one is getting a bit old by Sony standards.
No way to tell if only AF was added to the sensor or whether it was improved in others way also. It wouldn't be surprising if it had been improved in other ways also.
As far as AF goes, it would make the traditional MF SLR pretty much irrelevant since on sensor AF would be all over the frame... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Only look at the glass diameter of the WA compared to that of the whole lens. What would they do with all this empty space?
Leaf shutter?
Edmund
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You are probably right, but then it means that there is a new version of the 50mp sensor. This wouldn't be surprising since the initial one is getting a bit old by Sony standards.
No way to tell if only AF was added to the sensor or whether it was improved in others way also. It wouldn't be surprising if it had been improved in other ways also.
As far as AF goes, it would make the traditional MF SLR pretty much irrelevant since on sensor AF would be all over the frame... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
Sony always has a new version of everything ;) but somebody remarked that focus pixels can be created just with the help of the CFA stage of processing. With modern equipment that might mean single units can be run off ...
I think the A7 series now has focus just about anywhere, no?
As does the Canon A7 and 1DxII when filming, "probably".
Canon's implementation is supposed to be exemplary, but the Sony system seems to work.
Edmund
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Sony always has a new version of everything ;) but somebody remarked that focus pixels can be created just with the help of the CFA stage of processing. With modern equipment that might mean single units can be run off ...
I think the A7 series now has focus just about anywhere, no?
As does the Canon A7 and 1DxII when filming, "probably".
Canon's implementation is supposed to be exemplary, but the Sony system seems to work.
One thing is sure, I am glad the Japanese Yen is getting stronger by the minute!
Cheers,
Bernard
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One thing is sure, I am glad the Japanese Yen is getting stronger by the minute!
Cheers,
Bernard
Yes, I *am* glad new models are coming out, I am adjusting my expectation to buy the very best 3d generation old equipment :)
Edmund
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Yes, I *am* glad new models are coming out, I am adjusting my expectation to buy the very best 3d generation old equipment :)
Anyway, this camera will probably not be available till year end and we will have much better visibility on the state of things by then.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I would guess Fuji is pretty close as well...:
MIRRORLESS MEDIUM FORMAT :: Hasselblad will make the Start… but FUJIFILM’s Counterattack is (Almost) Ready !
http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-mirrorless-medium-format-camera-coming/ (http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-mirrorless-medium-format-camera-coming/)
unfortunately even if Fuji is ready to bring MF to market they cant seem to get the basics right dials and buttons! I mean did you ever use a X-Pro2 I've got 5000k frames on mine and for the live of me I cant seem to keep the EC dial from turning? not to mention Hasselblad is the KING of tethered in my opinion. Now buttons should be for commonly used quick changes love the joy stick button on the Fuji but....it also moves so easy you set it where you want it and two seconds later your not in the same spot!
SO, I rather shoot the simple way and shoot a Hassy, or any camera where the camera doesn't get in my way.
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Hi,
Would be surprised if Fuji's offering was not nearly the same as Hasselblad's. The two companies are long time partners.
The Hasselblad H series were sold under the Fuji name in Japan, the Pan-X was made at Fujinon. The H-lenses are made by Fujinon.
Best regards
Erik
I would guess Fuji is pretty close as well...:
MIRRORLESS MEDIUM FORMAT :: Hasselblad will make the Start… but FUJIFILM’s Counterattack is (Almost) Ready !
http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-mirrorless-medium-format-camera-coming/
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Hi,
Our friend Doug over at DT says:
"Would have been better if they went with a full frame sensor. Cropped medium format is not *really* medium format. But maybe the rich enthusiasts it’s pointed at won’t know the difference. Most pros will stick with Phase One."
https://www.cinema5d.com/hasselblad-x1d-medium-format-mirrorless-with-video-leak-live-stream/
I always thought Phase One was pretending the IQ3 50 was a medium format camera…
But, Doug has a valid point. What does a Sony 50 MP 44x33 mm sensor bring over an 42 MP Sony 24x36 sensor?
On the other hand, I don't think that the present generation of MFD sensor are the last ones we are seeing from Sony. In a few hours we will know more about the camera than just the basic things. Does it keep the typical MFD treats, like leaf shutter? Does it have EFC focal plane shutter?
Anyway, it seems that Hasselblad has taken a bold step, coming with some really new and useful technology. I guess we are seeing something really similar coming from Fuji pretty soon.
Best regards
Erik
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"Would have been better if they went with a full frame sensor. Cropped medium format is not *really* medium format. But maybe the rich enthusiasts it’s pointed at won’t know the difference. Most pros will stick with Phase One."
I agree... for now... IMHO, the impact for P1 isn't the direct sales of the X1D, it is the positioning of Hassy as a company selling to a broader audience, and therefore potentially able to change the game in the MF arena in terms of lowering their prices accross the board. They have already clearly started this with the H5D50c/CFV-50 but could continue the trend to higher end model if they are successful with the X1D. They are changing their business model.
This is a real threat for P1, although I don't expect them to admit it. ;)
However good C1 Pro is, it wouldn't convince many people to pay twice as much for the same 100mp chip.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I agree... for now... IMHO, the impact for P1 isn't the direct sales of the X1D, it is the positioning of Hassy as a company selling to a broader audience, and therefore potentially able to change the game in the MF arena in terms of lowering their prices accross the board. They have already clearly started this with the H5D50c/CFV-50 but could continue the trend to higher end model if they are successful with the X1D. They are changing their business model.
This is a real threat for P1, although I don't expect them to admit it. ;)
However good C1 Pro is, it wouldn't convince many people to pay twice as much for the same 100mp chip.
Cheers,
Bernard
All true, I hope Dougs comment made while half a sleep, because I feel as a Phase One user embarrassing. But enough about that.
MF Full Framer would have been great, but perhaps it really would get to big both in size and price. I think they would have charged around 16k for such a FF camera, which for us would have been great, for their main target market to much.
Now let's wait for all the facts. As most it sounds like a modified 50MP sensor for AF, as I would say its not a new sensor. This makes it a lot cheaper than let's say a 125MP version of the same sensor, which should be there in 1-2 years. At least this would calculate up from their very soon to come 75MP 36mm sensor ;)
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Hi,
It may be that Hasselblad positions mirrorless MFD at 44x33 mm and optimises the system around that size. I wouldn't be to much surprised to see a say a 70 or 125 MP 44x33 mm sensor from Sony, the former is the A7rII scaled up and the second would be the rumoured 75 MP sensor scaled up to 44x33. But it seems that Sony doesn't really scale between different sensor sizes. They are different designs.
I would be interested know if the new Hasselblad can be mounted on the Actus from Cambo or on the Arca Universalis.
Best regards
Erik
All true, I hope Dougs comment made while half a sleep, because I feel as a Phase One user embarrassing. But enough about that.
MF Full Framer would have been great, but perhaps it really would get to big both in size and price. I think they would have charged around 16k for such a FF camera, which for us would have been great, for their main target market to much.
Now let's wait for all the facts. As most it sounds like a modified 50MP sensor for AF, as I would say its not a new sensor. This makes it a lot cheaper than let's say a 125MP version of the same sensor, which should be there in 1-2 years. At least this would calculate up from their very soon to come 75MP 36mm sensor ;)
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I can't think of a reason why it won't work on an actus or universalis.
In fact, I think it would be quite great on those platforms.
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Our friend Doug over at DT says:
"Would have been better if they went with a full frame sensor. Cropped medium format is not *really* medium format. But maybe the rich enthusiasts it’s pointed at won’t know the difference. Most pros will stick with Phase One."
https://www.cinema5d.com/hasselblad-x1d-medium-format-mirrorless-with-video-leak-live-stream/
I always thought Phase One was pretending the IQ3 50 was a medium format camera…
Erik
I think Phase one make great cameras. I know a bunch of people who work there and they are all talented and passionate. I happen to be a (passionate) Hasselblad user but that doesn't mean I feel I have to denigrate other brands. Research and buy what works for you or your business.
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Hi,
Yes, I think Phase One makes great cameras. But what I see is that one of their salespeople claiming that 44x33mm is no real medium format. That would apply to the IQ3 50, too, wouldn't you say?!
Best regards
Erik
I think Phase one make great cameras. I know a bunch of people who work there and they are all talented and passionate. I happen to be a (passionate) Hasselblad user but that doesn't mean I feel I have to denigrate other brands. Research and buy what works for you or your business.
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Hi Synn,
My consideration may be flange distance and possibly lack of focal plane shutter. If there is no focal plane shutter, it may be useful with large format lenses but say V-series lenses may be less practical.
Best regards
Erik
I can't think of a reason why it won't work on an actus or universalis.
In fact, I think it would be quite great on those platforms.
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or they can get reasonable and just supply Adobe with all the necessary info to handle their raws properly in ACR/LR... Fuji does supply Adobe with SDK for example... if they can't invest as much as P1 in C1 then it is time to call it quits on some fronts... even Nikon licensed GUI from ISL (SilkyPix) to save time & effort on basic stuff
They've already done that for a long time, I know that straight from the source as when I asked for format spec they said they only share it with Adobe. Problem is that color pipeline in Phocus works very differently from the pipeline color in Adobe. Phocus has an own proprietary color profile format (in addition to ICC for user-provided stuff). Their native profiles are if I remember correctly some quadruple-illuminant stuff, pretty advanced stuff. That is even though Adobe can decode the files, they can't fully mirror the color. Oh well, if they tried hard they could probably come pretty close but it doesn't seem that they do. I haven't tested any Hassy camera in LR recently though so I don't know what the status is.
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Real medium format starts at 6x6cm ;). Doug is pretty famous for Hasselblad bashing, so I'm not surprised by his comment. But of course it's a 44x33mm sensor, I don't think a reasonable price that would allow a volume model would be possible with the 54x41mm sensor at this time. But sure I hope that the mount is not limited to 44x33 (which I initially thought it was, but now I'm not as sure).
Price is the most important part of the game changing bit, making Hasselblad cameras accessible to more people and not only working professionals.
If we're going Hassy/Phase like Nikon/Canon I could say that in the mirrorless range Phase One has the A system, which to me is a pure luxury product, with embarrassingly poor lens-sensor compatibility ;)
Phase One's strongest point against Hasselblad these days is Capture One. But Phocus is getting better...
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So the X1D is now priced a $8,995, the H5D-50c at $14,500 and the H6D-50c at $25,995.
Does that make sense if it is all one and the same sensor?
Yes. Medium format is not priced as mass market products. Low volume means high price. Old models are sold out to lower price. It's not only the sensor you pay for, but also the actual feature set. I doubt the mirrorless has true focus for example.
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It's not only the sensor you pay for, but also the actual feature set. I doubt the mirrorless has true focus for example.
Exactly.
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Hi Synn,
My consideration may be flange distance and possibly lack of focal plane shutter. If there is no focal plane shutter, it may be useful with large format lenses but say V-series lenses may be less practical.
Best regards
Erik
Good point, but I suspect it has a focal plane shutter.
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Anyone notice how civilised is in here without Theo?
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Anyone notice how civilised is in here without Theo?
shhh.. don't say its name out loud. Say it three times and it will reappear.
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shhh.. don't say its name out loud. Say it three times and it will reappear.
I think he must be accumulating sleep somewhere to release the energy continuously for 2 days in a row after the announcement. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Exactly.
I understand that True focus is just an example of absent feature explaining the pricing point difference, but True focus may not be needed either if focus can be acquired directly from the sensor away from the center.
One feature replaced by another with near zero manufacturing cost.
Win-win deal!
Cheers,
Bernard
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I think there will be a bunch of different features between the two systems. For example I currently shoot a 40MP medium format in studio and a 36MP dslr on location. Different tools for different jobs.
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I can see myself in the market for this in some months from now, when proper adapters for Mamiya lenses appear.
Perhaps even look at an Actus to accompany it. I have a Schneider 47XL sitting in the cabinet doing nothing which could see some action with that combo.
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4hrs to go btw.
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Damnit, Hassy...
(http://i.memecaptain.com/gend_images/Y3g7Hw.jpg)
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I understand that True focus is just an example of absent feature explaining the pricing point difference, but True focus may not be needed either if focus can be acquired directly from the sensor away from the center.
One feature replaced by another with near zero manufacturing cost.
Win-win deal!
Good point... I'm sure there's other factors too, I just don't think it will be a major threat to the typical H6D-50c use case. Regarding manufacturing cost it's almost irrelevant, people like to think they pay for hardware, but with these prices you do it only to a smaller extent. You pay for development cost, and not really feature-by-feature but totally. You pay for the complete package, and you get to pay what you can pay and for the expected sales volume. Thus the camera aimed at studio professionals is the most expensive.
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I am sure there will be enough differentiation between the product lines to ensure that cannibalization is kept to a minimum.
For example, I do not see this system having leaf shutters, keeping that an H system exclusive. I am sure they will also rreserve the highest MP sensors for the H system only, at least for some time.
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For example, I do not see this system having leaf shutters
I hope you're right on that... making the camera much more versatile for combining with other manufacturer's lenses. My bet is that it actually doesn't have a focal plane shutter... but it's just a guess, and I hope I'm wrong.
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I wonder what that silver button on the right from the mount does, the one on the left is lens release I guess.
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I hope you're right on that... making the camera much more versatile for combining with other manufacturer's lenses. My bet is that it actually doesn't have a focal plane shutter... but it's just a guess, and I hope I'm wrong.
Making it an FPS based system will help them make smaller lenses (Considering how size is a big priority in this project) and also offer proper differentiation in the market. i.e. "If you have some H series lenses, you can use them with this camera and the focal place shutter, but if you want to sync your flash with your H series lenses at high shutter speeds, you have to use the H series cameras". The fact that they updated the H system recently to offer higher shutter speeds is not a coincidence, IMO.
A wonderful side effect of that of course, is that one will be able to use this body with a variety of third party lenses.
p.s. What would be REALLY cool is if it has a global shutter. No vibration, easy adaptability to multiple lenses and view camera solutions and CMOS long exposure. This will be THE landscape camera for some years to come.
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p.s. What would be REALLY cool is if it has a global shutter. No vibration, easy adaptability to multiple lenses and view camera solutions and CMOS long exposure. This will be THE landscape camera for some years to come.
I was just thinking the same. This would really put the X1D firmly into the game changer category, but it would mean a totally new Sony 50mp CMOS sensor... or another mysterious sensor provider? This is pretty unlikely anyway.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Wait and see... Boarding in a few minutes on a flight. Will be a long wait...
Making it an FPS based system will help them make smaller lenses (Considering how size is a big priority in this project) and also offer proper differentiation in the market. i.e. "If you have some H series lenses, you can use them with this camera and the focal place shutter, but if you want to sync your flash with your H series lenses at high shutter speeds, you have to use the H series cameras". The fact that they updated the H system recently to offer higher shutter speeds is not a coincidence, IMO.
A wonderful side effect of that of course, is that one will be able to use this body with a variety of third party lenses.
p.s. What would be REALLY cool is if it has a global shutter. No vibration, easy adaptability to multiple lenses and view camera solutions and CMOS long exposure. This will be THE landscape camera for some years to come.
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Good point... I'm sure there's other factors too, I just don't think it will be a major threat to the typical H6D-50c use case. Regarding manufacturing cost it's almost irrelevant, people like to think they pay for hardware, but with these prices you do it only to a smaller extent. You pay for development cost, and not really feature-by-feature but totally. You pay for the complete package, and you get to pay what you can pay and for the expected sales volume. Thus the camera aimed at studio professionals is the most expensive.
And you pay for the channel, the marketing etc.
I once went to a Leica party, and it was a really nice party, and I would have been happy to pay $50 to get in - but usually I pay Leica to hold the parties to which I don't get invited. And there is probably a 20/1 effect, 10 party attendances by people at various times for 1 buy so about $500 of catering plus advertising and special presentation cases and well-dressed salesmen is necessary to sell a Leica.
Edmund
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I was just thinking the same. This would really put the X1D firmly into the game changer category, but it would mean a totally new Sony 50mp CMOS sensor... or another mysterious sensor provider? This is pretty unlikely anyway.
Cheers,
Bernard
It is the first medium format digital mirrorless camera with AF and EVF. Due to the very short focal flange distance almost any lens will be able to be adapted. That is huge. Previously one would need an ALPA FPS to do that ($$$, no EVF, No EVF, Bulky, etc). This new Hassy absolutely kills the 645Z.
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I don't want to start another brand war, but Ken is right. This should worry Pentax a lot more than Phase or Leica.
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The leaked pictures are a hoax
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Read the article here on Luminous-Landscape available from the home page after 8:30 AM US time. All will be revealed.
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-13 minutes
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-13 minutes
It seems the rumors of Hasselblad's financial troubles were greatly exaggerated.
Edmund
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About the same size as a Leica M.
Nice!
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the weight of 725g is amazing!
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the weight of 725g is amazing!
About as much as a Mamiya lens cap! ;D
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It is the first medium format digital mirrorless camera with AF and EVF. Due to the very short focal flange distance almost any lens will be able to be adapted. That is huge. Previously one would need an ALPA FPS to do that ($$$, no EVF, No EVF, Bulky, etc). This new Hassy absolutely kills the 645Z.
If it...
- is weatherproofed
- has 2 memory slots
- has stabilized lense(s)
- has an articulated screen
then yes.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Welp, leaf shutter.
There goes all the mix and match dreams.
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Leafshutter ^^ and so far is sounds like no FPS.... Sad I had so high hopes....
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EUR 9400 incl. VAT here in Germany.
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what's interesting, is that the size of the camera compared to the H6D...why the heck are those backs so big? the mirrobox makes sense, but the X1D looks havel the size of the Back. makes hopes that the next generation of backs will finally see a slimm down.
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The Viewfinder is 2.36MP XGA Electronic Viewfinder. A little on the low side ? I don't have much experiences with EVF
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https://luminous-landscape.com/hasselblad-announces-groundbreaking-x1d/
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http://www.hasselblad.com/x-system/x1d-50c
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So close, yet so far.
My interest has gone from 100-0 as there is no way I can use my existing lenses on it. Yes, Blad has no obligation to support any third party lenses, but it still sucks.
Excellent companion camera to those who are already on the H system though.
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Looks nice, but way out of my price range
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Ok. Let's see. Great design, great price, light and small. Great sensor as we already know. However, it looks like NO third party lenses (yeah I know I hoped for to much), Only Leafshutter lenses will work.
So for me it's a nice camera but, sorry to say that, because I hoped for more not a game changer or a camera I will get.
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Nikon compatible hot shoe is a nice touch.
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what's interesting, is that the size of the camera compared to the H6D...why the heck are those backs so big? the mirrobox makes sense, but the X1D looks havel the size of the Back. makes hopes that the next generation of backs will finally see a slimm down.
CCD was very finicky, which meant hardened electronics and a dustfree sealed CCD compartment, battery tech was less good, and it was necessary to be able to dissipate the heat. Now the electronics are less finicky, CMOS has integrated converters, battery can be smaller and generally everything electronic gets smaller ...
Edmund
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Ok. Let's see. Great design, great price, light and small. Great sensor as we already know. However, it looks like NO third party lenses (yeah I know I hoped for to much), Only Leafshutter lenses will work.
So for me it's a nice camera but, sorry to say that, because I hoped for more not a game changer or a camera I will get.
Obviously, in cine mode any lens will work ...
Edmund
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wow - I am speachless!
takes HC lenses, full x-sync up to 1/800 sec (or 1/2000). This is my backup and portable H camera next to H6D-100c. I am in, it is now time to trade-in and to order!!!
WOW!!
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Sensor size = Tiny, boring!!!
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Do we know anything about the af-speed?
And AF-points?
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Do we know anything about the af-speed?
And AF-points?
It's CDAF so it should be able to focus anywhere on the sensor and it will likely be relatively slow ;)
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Do we know anything about the af-speed?
And AF-points?
Through Hasselblads new page I found the following (missed the first segment of the live stream so maybe they had more information there):
"Focusing Autofocus metering via contrast detection; Instant manual focus override"
As far as I'm aware, contrast detection is an evaluation of the image in the EVF, and that is sloooow. But theoretically you can focus on anything you want, so I'm assuming they have a focus point which you can move wherever you want in the image.
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Good looking.
? AF What is is it. PDAF or contrast or both number of points?
On sensor stabilization? Lenses don't show anything for VR
GPS ?
Wifi? If so what app
No moving screen ( tilt screen would have been nice )
EVF refresh rate?
I just don't get "game changer". Obviously a well integrated system for Hasselblad shooters no focal shutter. Just being mirrorless MF makes it a game changer?
Paul C
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Canon and Nikon must be so damned mad to see a tiny niche player in Gothenburg do what they have been unable to do for many years now... :P
Which is to find a way to gain something by cannibalising their existing product line up with a mirrorless body!
Cheers,
Bernard
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Slow like medium format or even slower?
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Slow like medium format or even slower?
Slow like my Fuji XE-1; I presume.
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So close, yet so far.
My interest has gone from 100-0 as there is no way I can use my existing lenses on it. Yes, Blad has no obligation to support any third party lenses, but it still sucks.
Excellent companion camera to those who are already on the H system though.
opposite here: my interst has risen from 0 to 100 by using all the existing HC lenses and also for backup and portability! I placed an order already.
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I would really have loved for this to replace the A7r2... so close, but the lack of FPS kills it.
Dag.
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opposite here: my interst has risen from 0 to 100 by using all the existing HC lenses and also for backup and portability! I placed an order already.
That is excellent for existing Hasselblad users, I agree. But they could have engineered it to be a dual shutter system like the Mamiyas or the Leicas, which would have made them appeal to a much wider customer base.
Not complaining, it is an excellent product. Just disappointed as a Phamiya user who was very interested in it.
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To my eyes the camera looks great but a really slow af would be a great disappointment.
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I just don't get "game changer".
Good questions and indeed, there are many potentially interesting features left out, but they had to start somewhere. I believe that they got the right set of core specifications. I am glad they decided to go with double memory slot at least.
We can debate forever about game changing part, but it is nonetheless breaking more new ground than any other recent MF release:
- EVF
- Much more compact and light, especially when you factor in the lenses
- New lens mount
- New price point
I believe that Hassy deserves a lot of credit!
Cheers,
Bernard
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Do we know anything about the af-speed?
And AF-points?
It uses contrast, not great but it's what we are getting.
They could not do better than this because the sensor with phase detection does not exists yet.
This is a platform for the future, I hope.
I understand that they are using normal SD cards, if that is the case that is a big mistake.
They should have gone with SDHC UHS-II, but it could come in the future.
I don't like the 1/2000 shutter speed limitation. A focal plane shutter will be great but, it's not the direction of the future (electronic shutters will be solved).
With that it's an valid compromise: less moving parts, more rugged and dependable , less manufacturing costs.
In general it's a very good machine a good pricing.
We have to wait to see actual performance, in particular the autofocus system.
I am concerned that it does not have an interface to set focus (like the D500 and Canon cameras). If it's contrast we should be able to focus on any part of the frame.
I hope it's not just center and also contrast. I was late to the video, so maybe some on this questions already have an answer.
Best regards.
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Kudos to Hasselblad Team :-) Price is amazing for this product.
Adapter to H system lenses is nice, Adapter to V system lenses will be welcome ;-)
Does anyone know if tethering is possible?
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We have to wait to see actual performance, in particular the autofocus system.
I am concerned that it does not have an interface to set focus (like the D500 and Canon cameras). If it's contrast we should be able to focus on any part of the frame.
I hope it's not just center and also contrast. I was late to the video, so maybe some on this questions already have an answer.
Indeed. On the other hand if they had a smart focus helper (for example zoom area in the context of the frame) I would probably use it in manual focus most of the time.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Since this was made without Fuji's involvement, I guess it's safe to assume that the Fuji camera will be completely different.
Hopefully, that will come with a focal plane shutter, which will make it more interesting to those like me.
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Game changer may be overstating it a bit, but if the H-lens adaptor is solid and the colours and skin tones are as good as Hasselblad's usually are, I'll very likely buy one.
I'll test it myself and compare with an H5D-50c (the H6D-50c is a bit too expensive for me right now). But the appeal of CMOS Hasselblad in a smaller package and the ability to use my existing lenses is a win-win proposition for me.
Cheers, Hywel
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Over at GetDPI, it was just mentioned that the CFV will soon be discontinued.
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Nice camera, good price point, good direction for the future. However I'm more excited about the upcoming Fuji MF mirrorless (and hopefully Phase One response). Expecting hybrid viewfinder, focal plane shutter, and hopefully CF AF. That would be game changing.
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Does anyone know if tethering is possible?
why would it not be? USB 3.0 and full integration with Phocus!
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Nice camera, good price point, good direction for the future. However I'm more excited about the upcoming Fuji MF mirrorless (and hopefully Phase One response). Expecting hybrid viewfinder, focal plane shutter, and hopefully CF AF. That would be game changing.
This camera is crippled by intent.
With on-chip electronic shutter just about any lens could be used.
As soon as Hassy has got the financial boost from the H6, and enough lenses for the X1D, they will announce the X1Dn which is uncrippled.
Edmund
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WIFI and GPS...what more you want?
ok, AF will be tricky, just contrast detection. will have to live with this, and with only 2.3 frames per second it will not kill a Nikon D5 for sports and other dynamic photography, that's for sure!
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Over at GetDPI, it was just mentioned that the CFV will soon be discontinued.
Not nice, but it makes sense if they release an adapter for the old lenses.
I hope is not the case, because many people love that product.
From the perspective of the new generations, maybe the new machine makes more sense.
It also has synergy with the H6D fueling the sale of lenses. Hasselblad need to work on new lenses for the next generation high resolution backs,
The mirrorless system could help a lot with that.
Best regards
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Using Profoto strobes with Nikon N TTL will be really cool
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electronic shutters will be solved
they are all solved long time ago, global or rolling... but rolling shutter is a "focal plane" shutter just fast and no shutter shock an no mech and global shutter inevitably will either reduce possible DR or MP or both... so that's why you do not see global shutters in consumer cameras where marketing cares about claimed DR or MP or both
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Are there any details around the raw file format?
I've seen one suggestion that it is a 16bit (per color) file delivering 14 stops of DR?
same as with H5/6D-50c CMOS and these files are phenomenal...
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Who is making the lenses in Japan??
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I have seen Auto ISO function in the video...nice! is this already with the H6D ?
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Using Profoto strobes with Nikon N TTL will be really cool
what makes you think that this will work? It does not work with H5/6 system so far.
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Hi,
First reactions...
A bold step from Hasselblad that makes a lot of sense.
It has contrast detect AF. Probably works best with the new lenses. Not so fast, but accurate.
Leaf shutter, without Focal plane shutter makes it less attractive for non H- system users.
Pricing is attractive, specially if lenses are really good.
Not buying, but it looks to be a nice camera!
Best regards
Erik
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No real "game changer" imho, except for Hasselblad. Glad to see them introduce a new innovative camera with some nice features. Nikon compatible hotshoe----that's cool. I'm not a big fan of TTL, but I think venerable H found a way to join the Profoto B1 and B2 TTL-party.... Small form factor just made a lot of H photographers happy. Nothing here for me, but very happy to see that medium format is far from dead. :D
ken
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what makes you think that this will work? It does not work with H5/6 system so far.
Why would it not.....its got the Nikon hot shoe
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Who is making the lenses in Japan??
he said -I believe- something like MITO. There is a Fujinon MITO corporation which is a full subsidiary of Fuji group, but that is Fuji. A Japanese Mito by itself in optical manufacturing industries seems not to exist...???
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Why would it not.....its got the Nikon hot shoe
wow, didn't notice that. That would be cool indeed; still having a few of these SB's...
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he said -I believe- something like MITO. There is a Fujinon MITO corporation which is a full subsidiary of Fuji group, but that is Fuji. A Japanese Mito by itself in optical manufacturing industries seems not to exist...???
http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/57490377/Mito-Techno-CoLtd-in-Kitamoto-Japan
If that's it it is a tiny company
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Nikon compatible hotshoe----that's cool. I'm not a big fan of TTL
Nikon compatible does not mean that you have to use "TTL" - it means you have some decently wide standard (Canon might be even wider) to control remote flash/strobes remotely from camera in M mode too... plus TTL for those who want/need it
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Three thou too expensive for general adoption world-wide. DMF remains to be niche systems.
No game changer here.
Ready for the A9 announcement.
Eduardo
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Hi Paul,
I think its changing the game, or rather, it is a new game. Small, affordable and competent...
But, you can not set it on a technical camera and the contrast detect AF may be a bit slow.
May be, Sony will develop a new MFD sensor with full electronic shutter and on sensor phase detection?
I think the camera addresses a new group of photographers perfectly. Young photographers looking for the MFD experience and for that Hasselblad label.
Best regards, from Charleoi Airport
Erik
Good looking.
? AF What is is it. PDAF or contrast or both number of points?
On sensor stabilization? Lenses don't show anything for VR
GPS ?
Wifi? If so what app
No moving screen ( tilt screen would have been nice )
EVF refresh rate?
I just don't get "game changer". Obviously a well integrated system for Hasselblad shooters no focal shutter. Just being mirrorless MF makes it a game changer?
Paul C
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they are all solved long time ago, global or rolling... but rolling shutter is a "focal plane" shutter just fast and no shutter shock an no mech and global shutter inevitably will either reduce possible DR or MP or both... so that's why you do not see global shutters in consumer cameras where marketing cares about claimed DR or MP or both
So they are not solved. As you say, they have a negative impact on dynamic range. By solved I mean: Global and negligible to zero impact on any image quality parameters.
Building machines with moving parts, as I have stated before, is a mistake from the business point of view: You need highly trained, high compromise people at the factory. Moving parts are the source of all kind of nightmares and recalls. Robots could alleviate the manufacturing costs, but you still have to design fragile moving parts. The only moving parts that are welcome, in a modern design,6 are the ones that are high value for the costumer: like moving LCD / AMOLED displays.
Best regards,
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I think its changing the game, or rather, it is a new game.
the proper definition will be changing the game in a smallish sandbox
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what makes you think that this will work? It does not work with H5/6 system so far.
The info is on the hasselblad web site: http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/X1D-50c-Datasheet-EN.pdf
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Several reactions:
I do consider the X1D a game changer in terms of its fundamental premise: medium format image quality (and sensor) in an exceptionally small form factor. (The Sony A7RII is 625g; the X1D is 725g.)If you don't see that as a breakthrough, then pick up a Phase XF body with an IQ350 back and three LS lenses and take a nice long hike or walk around a city for the day. Then, do the same with the new Hasselblad 30, 45 and 90mm lenses. The XF is a great camera body, but it should have been put on a diet. So, depending upon the lens quality of the new Hasseblad lenses for the X1D, it could be a fantastic landscape/travel camera.
The X1D would have been really ground breaking 2 years ago. Now, less so. The Sony A7RII is already at 42MP, and rumors are that it will go to 72 or 75MP. The siren song of pure MP is powerful. Of course, Sony is aggressively moving away from its initial appeal to me by focusing its high end lenses on big, heavy and fast. I want light and small and can accept slower.
The X1D is the camera that the Leica SL should have been. Leica completely dropped the ball, IMO.
An obvious question is why leaf shutter lenses. Was it just so that the existing HC lenses would be compatible?Of course, you won't have to worry about shutter shock.
Why did Hasselblad not use the same type of EVF that the Leica SL uses, which is supposed to be exceptional. I can't understand that omission in a $9,000 camera body.
The X1D appears to be a beautifully designed camera body. I expect it to be a very functional design rather than being crapped up by a mind numbing menu system and controls like Japanese cameras always seem to be.
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This camera is crippled by intent.
With on-chip electronic shutter just about any lens could be used.
As soon as Hassy has got the financial boost from the H6, and enough lenses for the X1D, they will announce the X1Dn which is uncrippled.
Edmund
Trouble is that with the Sony chip (40MP A7R2) when you select full electronic shutter (silent shooting) the file drops to 12 bit. You also lose long expose NR option. I'd expect the 50MP chip to have the same (or worse) limitations and Hasselblad may not have wanted to go there ...
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Waiting for Steve Huff or Ken Rockwells review
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Or "the game-changer of the few"?
the proper definition will be changing the game in a smallish sandbox
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http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/57490377/Mito-Techno-CoLtd-in-Kitamoto-Japan
If that's it it is a tiny company
He said Nitto ...
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Nitt%C5%8D_K%C5%8Dgaku
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Hi,
i don't know about the availibility of FP shutters. Most customers Hasselblad addresses with the new model may not miss FPS.
This may be a first camera of a new generation.
Best regards
Erik
Several reactions:
I do consider the X1D a game changer in terms of its fundamental premise: medium format image quality (and sensor) in an exceptionally small form factor. (The Sony A7RII is 625g; the X1D is 725g.)If you don't see that as a breakthrough, then pick up a Phase XF body with an IQ350 back and three LS lenses and take a nice long hike or walk around a city for the day. Then, do the same with the new Hasselblad 30, 45 and 90mm lenses. The XF is a great camera body, but it should have been put on a diet. So, depending upon the lens quality of the new Hasseblad lenses for the X1D, it could be a fantastic landscape/travel camera.
The X1D would have been really ground breaking 2 years ago. Now, less so. The Sony A7RII is already at 42MP, and rumors are that it will go to 72 or 75MP. The siren song of pure MP is powerful. Of course, Sony is aggressively moving away from its initial appeal to me by focusing its high end lenses on big, heavy and fast. I want light and small and can accept slower.
The X1D is the camera that the Leica SL should have been. Leica completely dropped the ball, IMO.
An obvious question is why leaf shutter lenses. Was it just so that the existing HC lenses would be compatible?Of course, you won't have to worry about shutter shock.
Why did Hasselblad not use the same type of EVF that the Leica SL uses, which is supposed to be exceptional. I can't understand that omission in a $9,000 camera body.
The X1D appears to be a beautifully designed camera body. I expect it to be a very functional design rather than being crapped up by a mind numbing menu system and controls like Japanese cameras always seem to be.
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I'm really disappointed in the low resolution of the EVF. After using the Sony a7rII and a Leica SL, there is absolutely no comparison in quality of the EVF. A high resolution EVF on a medium format would be a game changer for me. I just can't figure out why Hasselblad did not do this? The technology is there. Maybe use too much power but Leica does not have that problem with the SL.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Perhaps in a few months, we might see an enterprising chinese manufacturer come up with a fully electronic X to EF adapter with a built in FPS.
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The X1D is the camera that the Leica SL should have been. Leica completely dropped the ball, IMO.
Fully agree. Leica is always so scared of cannibalisation on their existing camera line (S and M) that they try to play smart and loose. Now they have to play catch-up again.
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will there be AF when using the HC lens adapter? don't know anything about using lens adapters...
and aperture settings, i.e. automatic exposure mode by aperture or shutter pre-dialing?
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he said -I believe- something like MITO. There is a Fujinon MITO corporation which is a full subsidiary of Fuji group, but that is Fuji. A Japanese Mito by itself in optical manufacturing industries seems not to exist...???
Get some hearing aids :)
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Nittō_Kōgaku
https://www.nittohkogaku.co.jp
Edmund
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I do consider the X1D a game changer in terms of its fundamental premise: medium format image quality (and sensor) in an exceptionally small form factor. (The Sony A7RII is 625g; the X1D is 725g.)
A7R2 has IBIS and FPS inside ... so as Ricoh and/or Olympus shows IBIS can do something like multi-shot... so when you consider 725g vs 625g with what 625g has I am not sure that 725g is something exceptional, even if the sensor is 1.6* times bigger than FF one ... that weight is achieved by a lot of crippling
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I'm really disappointed in the low resolution of the EVF. After using the Sony a7rII and a Leica SL, there is absolutely no comparison in quality of the EVF. A high resolution EVF on a medium format would be a game changer for me. I just can't figure out why Hasselblad did not do this? The technology is there. Maybe use too much power but Leica does not have that problem with the SL.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
it says XGA resolution with 2.36 MP. isn't that good enough? don't know much about EVF though have one of these little compacts from Fuji (X100 with only 1.44 MP on the EVF)
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Get some hearing aids :)
Edmund
ok, wil do so, but first getting the X1D... ;D
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Fully agree. Leica is always so scared of cannibalisation on their existing camera line (S and M) that they try to play smart and loose. Now they have to play catch-up again.
I told my Leica rep immediately after the released from the SL that Leica should have made the new S with the same style as the SL and allowed the ability to use M lenses with an adapter.
Just think about it. Medium format sensor that you could shoot either medium format or 35mn lenses.
Gage
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Why did Hasselblad not use the same type of EVF that the Leica SL uses, which is supposed to be exceptional. I can't understand that omission in a $9,000 camera body.
My guess is the chip is quite expensive and they need to cut as many corners as possible.
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My guess is the chip is quite expensive and they need to cut as many corners as possible.
Leica uses it in there $8k camera. If cost is a big deal just add another $500-1000 to the cost and I believe most would not care.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I would really like to see a focal reducer made to adapt H lenses to this. That way you can get more of the "full frame" look and the lenses will be a bit faster. It would negate most of the negatives of the crop sensor.
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I'm sick of being screwed by the Euro to GBP pricing.
The body at 7900 Euro at the current exchange rate = £6066 and yet Calumet UK are quoting £7188
Take a drive across the channel and make the purchase?
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I'm worried about the EVF quality. It says 2.4 MP XGA viewfinder. That's the same resolution as Sony A7 but is it OLED? Refresh rate? If it's as good as Sony I'm getting it if it's as bad as Fuji x100s that's disappointing. Does anyone know what XGA IS?
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I'm sick of being screwed by the Euro to GBP pricing.
The body at 7900 Euro at the current exchange rate = £6066 and yet Calumet UK are quoting £7188
nothing on Pro Centre yet, a bit surprised, also, is it possible that Calumet lists price including VAT?
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I'm sick of being screwed by the Euro to GBP pricing.
The body at 7900 Euro at the current exchange rate = £6066 and yet Calumet UK are quoting £7188
that includes GBP 1198 VAT. EUR 7900 is without VAT. apples and pairs?
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I'm disappointed there isn't multishot(pixel shift) option, like Pentax K3.
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Nikon compatible does not mean that you have to use "TTL" - it means you have some decently wide standard (Canon might be even wider) to control remote flash/strobes remotely from camera in M mode too... plus TTL for those who want/need it
I believe the lens manufacturer is Nittō Kōgaku (also known as Nittoh these days).
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Nitt%C5%8D_K%C5%8Dgaku
Dave
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will there be AF when using the HC lens adapter? don't know anything about using lens adapters...
and aperture settings, i.e. automatic exposure mode by aperture or shutter pre-dialing?
yes, confirmed. full AF and exposure functionality with HC/HCD lenses when using X1D with the adapter. Adapter is CHF 355 which is around EUR 320 + VAT.
Just ordered and being the first on the order list! :)
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Since this was made without Fuji's involvement, I guess it's safe to assume that the Fuji camera will be completely different.
Hopefully, that will come with a focal plane shutter, which will make it more interesting to those like me.
And to those like me.
I'm not interested in it as in a standalone camera, but to be able to attach it to my telescope would be nice -- and, say, 645Z is not an option here, I'm fed up with mirrors, thank you very much; using 5D and 5DII for that was... less than satisfactory.
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I'm interested to see if Hasselblad will be able to offer some sort of lens shift adapter along the lines of the Contax / Rollei / Hasselblad H module solutions for the FPS. I don't know if the flange to sensor dimension of the X1D will permit it (or if their lenses are appropriate for the task), but the ability to apply rise/fall is pretty much a requirement for any camera purchase I contemplate. I know that puts me into a really small pool. Otherwise I think this is a pretty neat platform. I own a tech camera and a Leaf back and there are times where I'd love that functionality in a much smaller and less cumbersome setup.
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I had a dealer tell me there are issues with the adapter and older HCD lenses. Apparently it doesn't work with lenses older than 5-10 years. They are trying to work out the serial numbers. This is a huge question for me because I have 4 HCD lenses and need the focal lengths to transition.
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Three thou too expensive for general adoption world-wide. DMF remains to be niche systems.
No game changer here.
Ready for the A9 announcement.
Eduardo
Honestly I'm not really seeing what the mythical A9 can bring to the table beyond a larger body with better handling/controls, a higher res sensor could just as well be put in a smaller body(and still won't equal the performance of the larger sensor) and it seems very unlikely Sony will suddenly be able to deliver AF performance to suit a sports/journalist/wildlife market plus of course they really lack the lens range to do so.
The X1D isn't anything radically new in terms of performance but I do think size and relative affordability make it an interesting product that potentially opens them up to a wider market. The big advantage with a mirrorless 33x44mm design I would say is that your not just saving size relative to an SLR your also saving size relative to SLR's that have a flange distance designed for 645 film or digital sensors. For a lot of people who are happy shooting a FF DSLR in the 750g-1 kg range probably aren't so happy with the prospect of the Pentax 645z at 1.5 KG and a lot thicker.
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Anyone catch the image circle size on the X1D glass? Can they shoehorn the 100mp chip into one in a year?
There really should be a push for a V to X1D adapter, even at $1,500 it's viable. All the adapters should be designed with a 2 part lock, once to the lens mount, then a sliding clamp that attaches to the bottom of the camera. If it was Arca styled, it would be perfect.
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I don't think I'll be buying one (I currently have a H5X and Credo), but this does jump to the front of the, "If I had no cameras or lenses at all, what would I buy." Before today I think it'd have been a toss between the Sony A7 series and the Pentax.
-Doug
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I have my testing unit by the end of the week start of the month :)
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Looks like a nice camera and a step in the right direction, however one aspect completely negates all of that, no shutters in the camera body.
Considering how easy and cheaply it would have been to add on global shutters, the only reason I can think why not is someone at Hasselblad said, "we can't do that because not as many of the lenses would sell." I am sure regardless of this, there would be a pretty consistent amount of Hassy diehards who would buy bodies and lenses. I can not imagine those figures varying too much regardless. However, by not having a shutter in the camera, a large section of potential users have been disregarded.
In the past year or so, we have seen many architectural and studio shooters attach the Sony's to there bellows camera with great results. Having a medium format option with, hopefully, better color would have been nice. This camera does not work here.
Also, the lens chooses are very limited currently. I am sure many wedding and event shooters are looking at this as a possibility but now can't justify buying one since no zoom lenses can be used on it. And we all know how long it usually take Hassy to get things to market; professionals can not base their purchasing decisions on "what ifs."
One of the best features of mirrorless is that, due to the shallow flange depth, virtually any lens ever manufactured, with the right adapter, can be used on them. I am sure many people have many old unique lenses collecting dust that they would love to use on a digital platform. Not possible here.
Hasselblad, with the lack of including an in-camera shutter, has cobbled the creative possibilities for this "game-changer" and greatly limited its user base. Not the best financial decision IMHO.
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Hopefully Fujifilm will come along & do it properly
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The shutter is on the H system if one need one. In the same time the XD-1 lenses are not that much expensive for LS lenses ...
The X1-D is priced €7900 without VAT. The 45mm less than 2K without VAT and the 90mm a bit more than 2K without VAT and the later 30mm a bit less than 3K without VAT. The adaptor will be around €300 without VAT and will work only with Hasselblad LS lenses. This 30mm will be "stargazing" .
There is no plan for now on another lenses, probably 2017.
The lenses are made by the same manufacturer as the Xpan lenses, in Japan.
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Leica is always so scared of cannibalisation on their existing camera line (S and M) that they try to play smart and loose. Now they have to play catch-up again.
Besides the difference in sensor size/resolution I don't see the Hasselblad X1D having many advantages over the Leica SL but perhaps I am missing something....?
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Honestly I'm not really seeing what the mythical A9 can bring to the table beyond a larger body with better handling/controls
more mp, multishot through IS, EVF like Leica SL or even better, double card slots, compressed lossless raw, bigger battery, a lot of things to "justify" extra $$$... some small increases in AF, DR (per sensor, not per one sensel) might be as well
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MTF of the new lenses look nice.
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Anyone catch the image circle size on the X1D glass? Can they shoehorn the 100mp chip into one in a year?
It doesn't look like it to me (but then it didn't look like Sony could get FF into the E-mount either when the NEX cameras were first introduced)
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The shutter is on the H system if one need one. In the same time the XD-1 lenses are not that much expensive for LS lenses ...
The X1-D is priced €7900 without VAT. The 45mm less than 2K without VAT and the 90mm a bit more than 2K without VAT and the later 30mm a bit less than 3K without VAT. The adaptor will be around €300 without VAT and will work only with Hasselblad LS lenses. This 30mm will be "stargazing" .
There is no plan for now on another lenses, probably 2017.
The lenses are made by the same manufacturer as the Xpan lenses, in Japan.
They mentioned at the lunach they were planning a 30mm lens for Photonika I believe, that would be a biggue I'd imagine for potential landscape users.
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Hasselblad, with the lack of including an in-camera shutter, has cobbled the creative possibilities for this "game-changer" and greatly limited its user base. Not the best financial decision IMHO.
Yes the lack of FPS is a big disappointment for frankenstein-camera-builders. However, how many of those (us) are there, really? Over the past few years I've seen the architectural/technical camera genre been constantly hammered. Copal is out, Schneider is out, sensor-lens compatibility is mediocre at best. Phase is talking about "hey, maybe you should crop and do keystoning instead". Simply put, no-one except the Alpa/Cambo/Arca/Linhof cares about this segment. They adapt as much as they can, just as photographers have to do. The A7r working out on tech cams is just a fortunate side effect.
The logical explanation to that this segment is so hugely ignored is that there's no money to make in it, so why make products for it?
Sure I'd love tech cams to be a significant market, but over the years I've become a lot more pessimistic about that. It would be interesting to have some actual statistics on where the sales go.
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They mentioned at the lunach they were planning a 30mm lens for Photonika I believe, that would be a biggue I'd imagine for potential landscape users.
It would definitely help landscape shooters but something a bit wider would still be welcome, something around a 21mm or so.
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They mentioned at the lunach they were planning a 30mm lens for Photonika I believe, that would be a biggue I'd imagine for potential landscape users.
Yes and this lens is a little problem (in the good way) for hasselblad but I can't say more. I might say more if I'm authorized too. Well it is not clear so I won't take the risk.
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It would definitely help landscape shooters but something a bit wider would still be welcome, something around a 21mm or so.
That's pretty wide for MF, I don't think anyone else offers wider than 24/25mm even on the Pentax 33x44mm limited system.
24mm, 30mm, 45mm and 90mm would certainly be a good start though and this does generally seem to be well aimed at the travel/landscape market.
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http://www.adorama.com/hsx1d50c.html?utm_source=rflaid67913
Adorable has more info on it including the fact it can shoot 39mp square format and x-pan which is all previewed live in the evf
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That's pretty wide for MF, I don't think anyone else offers wider than 24/25mm even on the Pentax 33x44mm limited system.
24mm, 30mm, 45mm and 90mm would certainly be a good start though and this does generally seem to be well aimed at the travel/landscape market.
Phase One has a 28mm which is equivalent to 17mm on a full frame 35mm sensor when used with the IQx60, x80 and 3-100 backs! There's also lenses for technical cameras that are in the low 20's which get you way wide when using a MF back. Phase ships the A-series with a 23mm which when paired with a x60, x80, or100mp back is about like a 14mm on a full frame 35mm camera.
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4 new photos :
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/EMMA.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/MATHIEU.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/SHUKRI.jpg)
(http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/06/DAVID2.jpg)
Photo credit : AORTA (http://www.aorta.se/)
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Wouldn't it be good if Hasselblad bought up Apple's Aperture & developed that, giving their users a fully-fledged alternative to LR?
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MTF of the new lenses look nice.
the 90mm f/3.2 MTF looks really fantastic. Look at the almost straight lines, f3.2 almost as good as at f8. very similar to the sharpest HC lens which is 150 f/3.2 IMO.
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Yes the lack of FPS is a big disappointment for frankenstein-camera-builders. However, how many of those (us) are there, really? Over the past few years I've seen the architectural/technical camera genre been constantly hammered. Copal is out, Schneider is out, sensor-lens compatibility is mediocre at best. Phase is talking about "hey, maybe you should crop and do keystoning instead". Simply put, no-one except the Alpa/Cambo/Arca/Linhof cares about this segment. They adapt as much as they can, just as photographers have to do. The A7r working out on tech cams is just a fortunate side effect.
The logical explanation to that this segment is so hugely ignored is that there's no money to make in it, so why make products for it?
Sure I'd love tech cams to be a significant market, but over the years I've become a lot more pessimistic about that. It would be interesting to have some actual statistics on where the sales go.
For genres of architecture and landscape, which general speaking require wider lenses, I do agree with you to an extent. (I still think you are at the far end of being too concerned with lens cast and that the current wide line-up is fine for almost all needs, but I digress.) However, for studio and table top work, where you are using longer lenses, having a good deal of shift and tilt/swing is very beneficial.
There are things you just can not replicate in post with movements.
So, the need for technical cameras (with bellows) is still very huge. Yes, the focus stacking aspect of the XF is great, but you don't always want images that look like they were shot at f/64, but may want to manipulate the focus to an extent. Plus, if something is moving, like liquids, focus stacking is impossible.
Having an in-camera shutter here would have been a great advantage for studio shooters.
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For genres of architecture and landscape, which general speaking require wider lenses, I do agree with you to an extent. (I still think you are at the far end of being too concerned with lens cast and that the current wide line-up is fine for almost all needs, but I digress.) However, for studio and table top work, where you are using longer lenses, having a good deal of shift and tilt/swing is very beneficial.
There are things you just can not replicate in post with movements.
So, the need for technical cameras (with bellows) is still very huge. Yes, the focus stacking aspect of the XF is great, but you don't always want images that look like they were shot at f/64, but may want to manipulate the focus to an extent. Plus, if something is moving, like liquids, focus stacking is impossible.
Having an in-camera shutter here would have been a great advantage for studio shooters.
I do agree that I am in the far end, as I not only look at actual end results but at the fact if the sensor+lens combination leaves the sensor operating in its designed range. It's obvious that newer sensor designs totally disregarded from tech lens lines, and as a side effect of very good progress in dynamic range and color separation it can be somewhat masked. The point is that the trend is there -- for Phase One / Hasselblad it's not seen as a major issue, they look at their main systems and tech cam get what they get, if it happens to work, that's fine let's ride the wave a bit longer, if not, that's fine too. Their long-term idea is that features like super-high resolution, improved perspective reprojection in post, and focus-stacking will eventually bring tech cam users to their main systems. I certainly agree that it's not the same, but some things just fade away even if they had some merit... :-/
Historically Hasselblad has been much worse than Phase One on the tech cam support too. While they had the Kodak sensor and Phase One ditched them for Dalsa, Hassy had a great opportunity to push hard the superiority of the Kodak on tech lenses (especially the Digitars), but they totally missed out. So it's not surprising that they don't do it now either.
But this is perhaps not so much about tech, but third-party compatibility in general, as FPS would be used for SLR lenses (with tech lenses we can use Copal and flash-sync perhaps, if the camera has it?). Hasselblad doesn't have too good history there either, they want you to stay within the Hasselblad ecosystem...
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I would love this camera for architecture. Live view, a slim body, and access to great lenses with leaf shutters sounds perfect.
However, $8k for the body, $4k+ for the HTS, and $6k for the 24mmHCD..oh yeah...and probably what...$500 for the adapter to H lenses. All that to get a roughly 26mm equivalent field of view shift lens for architecture.
That's a steep price. I already own a Phase back, H system, and Cambo system. I would LOVE to switch over and gain more than ISO 50 and a prehistoric working method.
It is a very appealing camera. I wish us architectural photographers got a bit more love out there. Or is everyone satisfied with 5DS and a shift lens?
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This is a total game changer. Putting Medium Format into such a tiny body and dropping $16K of the H6-50c price is absolutely ridiculously incredible. This puts Hasselblad back in the game, something most of us thought would not be possible. I was expecting a half baked hyped up junk product but it is not. Well done Hasselblad for setting a cat amongst the pigeons - Very interested to see how disrupts the industry and how they react.
Re no Focal Plane Shutter - It seems the camera has an electronic shutter instead. On the Mode dial it says Mq. This is apparently Manual-quiet so a way to adapt lenses within the parameters of current electronic shutter technology. Pentax put a shutter in their Q/K adapter and there is nothing to say Hasselblad or someone else won't create one. I think there will be some surprises left for Photokina and this might just be one of them. I am also expecting/hoping for a 70mm f2 or faster. It's odd there is no standard lens at launch and I feel this could be why.
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AFAIK an electronic shutter will make the sensor lose significant dynamic range, if so it's probably still not a real option for architecture photography. I'm not 100% sure if this is the case though...
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Well now you know!
As I've said I think this is a lovely camera and it feels fantastic in your hands.
Some of the posts here are pretty funny, especially the ones who say "I can't believe they didn't put this thing in, it's so cheap and easy to do"
Do you really think that Hasselblad decided not to put cheap and easy things in just to annoy people?
C'mon it's a great piece of kit I think it will be a great walk about camera, can't wait to get hold of one.
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Interesting, no meter/feet reading on the lenses. Focus-by-wire?
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Put me also firmly in the "I really really want this!" camp. Medium format in a camera that's basically the size of my APS-C DSLR? How is that not exciting?!
Some fodder for thought, Pentax Q lenses have the shutter built in. For their Q to K mount adapter, they included a mechanical shutter:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/891530-REG/Pentax_Adapter_Q_for_K_mount.html
So it's definitely possible to build an adapter with a built-in shutter that talks to the camera. I'm guessing a Hassy version will cost a bit more than the Pentax, but saying there's still hope for a series of adapters for those complaining about the lack of a focal plane shutter.
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Maybe I missed this, but what sort of weather sealing is on this body/new lenses? I'm not immediately in the market but as an H system user, I could see myself considering this as a backup/walk around body. But I'd really want it to be something I could throw in a bag and use anywhere, not (as) worried about the fragile/expensive tool (I baby my H/Credo set up).
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It would be fun to try out on an Actus.
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This camera gives me headaches.
There is so much really nice stuff. The menues look good, the formfactor is nice, the size is great.
BUT: why oh why - did Blad decide to keep this a part of the H System with leafshutters involved ? for... what ?
Light and carry backpack shooters will most likely not use studio flashes. For all the others there is now HSS if needed.
Excluding this camera from a simple adapter solution because of the lacking FPS is such a total misconception of the understanding
of the success of the mirrorless bodies. It´s about the lenses Hasselblad - all these wide open old or new pieces of glass that
invite the creative spirit for experiment ? You could have done that , making some nice f2.0 or brighter series for that camera especially ?
No leaf shutter, which is only a source of additional headaches (as we heard before ?).
And then: no 4K finder ? Epson sells these, they are available for some time now. A 9000$ body which cannot get the best out there in finders ?
and finally: I get the point that making a 4K video option in a high quality way may have been difficult. But at least some more punch on the video side
like mabe 120fps in full HD, Log S or some of these goodies ....?
Sigh......
Such a nice camera. But a "close to" hit is still a miss.
I don´t even want to speak of the now cannibalizing effect of this body for all the hobbyists that have been buying H6D before and can now get the Blad name and the lenses on a 7k $ less expensive body ? Did nobody speak with the dealers first ?
BIG Sigh
I wish Hasselblad Luck. They will need it.
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Just wondering - the look on Perry Oosting's face, and the tone in his voice, when talking about Nitto and not Fuji for lenses was quite guarded and odd I thought.
Fuji have not done the lenses on this because they are probably about to launch their own camera at Photokina.
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Yes the lack of FPS is a big disappointment for frankenstein-camera-builders. However, how many of those (us) are there, really? Over the past few years I've seen the architectural/technical camera genre been constantly hammered. Copal is out, Schneider is out, sensor-lens compatibility is mediocre at best. Phase is talking about "hey, maybe you should crop and do keystoning instead". Simply put, no-one except the Alpa/Cambo/Arca/Linhof cares about this segment. They adapt as much as they can, just as photographers have to do. The A7r working out on tech cams is just a fortunate side effect.
The logical explanation to that this segment is so hugely ignored is that there's no money to make in it, so why make products for it?
Sure I'd love tech cams to be a significant market, but over the years I've become a lot more pessimistic about that. It would be interesting to have some actual statistics on where the sales go.
It's not just for tech cam makers.
How many A7R2 users are using Canon lenses? Hint: A lot.
It would have been nice if one could use Canon/ mamiya/ nikon etc. lenses on this.
For me personally, if this had an FPS, I would have gotten rid of the nikon gear, bought an adapter for my mamiya lenses plus maybe a canon 24 TSE. No frankencamera necessary.
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Just wondering - the look on Perry Oosting's face, and the tone in his voice, when talking about Nitto and not Fuji for lenses was quite guarded and odd I thought.
I missed that but check out the MTF for the 90mm, absolutely amazing.
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I missed that but check out the MTF for the 90mm, absolutely amazing.
which may be indicating that they use the electronically (by Firmware) corrected MTF´s only........
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Just wondering - the look on Perry Oosting's face, and the tone in his voice, when talking about Nitto and not Fuji for lenses was quite guarded and odd I thought.
Fuji have not done the lenses on this because they are probably about to launch their own camera at Photokina.
Hasselblad already seen the fuji prototype.
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The lack of FPS is IMHO the result of:
- the desire to keep the body very simple, compact and cheap to produce,
- the desire to spread the cost of their new leaf shutter mechanism over a larger number of lenses
- the tageted usage of the camera where outdoor flash photography is considered important
Cheers,
Bernard
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This camera gives me headaches.
There is so much really nice stuff. The menues look good, the formfactor is nice, the size is great.
BUT: why oh why - did Blad decide to keep this a part of the H System with leafshutters involved ? for... what ?
Light and carry backpack shooters will most likely not use studio flashes. For all the others there is now HSS if needed.
Excluding this camera from a simple adapter solution because of the lacking FPS is such a total misconception of the understanding
of the success of the mirrorless bodies. It´s about the lenses Hasselblad - all these wide open old or new pieces of glass that
invite the creative spirit for experiment ? You could have done that , making some nice f2.0 or brighter series for that camera especially ?
No leaf shutter, which is only a source of additional headaches (as we heard before ?).
And then: no 4K finder ? Epson sells these, they are available for some time now. A 9000$ body which cannot get the best out there in finders ?
and finally: I get the point that making a 4K video option in a high quality way may have been difficult. But at least some more punch on the video side
like mabe 120fps in full HD, Log S or some of these goodies ....?
Sigh......
Such a nice camera. But a "close to" hit is still a miss.
I don´t even want to speak from the now cannibalizing effect of the body for all the hobbyists that have been buying H6D before and can now get the Blad name and the lenses on a 7k $ less expensive body ? Did nobody speak with the dealers first ?
BIG Sigh
I wish Hasselblad Luck. They will need it.
I don't agree with your analysis, I'm very positive about the camera. Sure I'd love to have FPS too, but what I want is not necessarily what sells the most cameras. If the choice was between $9k camera and 725 grams, or a $11k camera and 900 grams plus a bit bulkier form factor, just to fit the FPS, would the later option be better? I don't think so. Maybe it would not hurt the design that much, but the point is that FPS wouldn't come for free, and the slick lightweight sexy design plus the lower price I think is more important for sales than satisfying the niche of combining third-party lenses and tech cams. I would guess that there's like 20 enthusiast buyers that want a slick clean system on every 1 pro that mixes and matches bodies and lenses. Sure you can argue that with FPS the lenses would be cheaper, but no, medium format / hassy is so associated to leaf shutters so I think that either they would have had FPS + leaf shutters, or just leaf shutters like now. I'm not sure how good idea it is to have a MF-sized shutter in a light body either...
The video is probably because the sensor/platform simply isn't made for it. As far as I know anything but the most basic video does require quite some specific development, and I don't think video makes sense in medium format size at all (with like Arri's special rental only camera as the exception), so that it actually have some basic video is just a bonus.
The lack of highest end finder is a bit mysterious though, but I'd like to see it first before saying that it's actually bad.
Cannibalizing effect may be there for a narrow set of users, but what would they do instead? Set the price to $20k? They want to reach those that cannot pay for H6D. Working professionals, probably 90% or more of the H6D customer base, will go for the H6 for the feature set anyway, and maybe get the X1D as an extra body. I think pros that get X1D as an extra is more than those that get only an X1D instead of a H6D they otherwise would have bought.
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This model is for Hasselblad , what Cayenne for Porsche.
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The lack of FPS is IMHO the result of:
- the desire to keep the body very simple, compact and cheap to produce,
- the desire to spread the cost of their new leaf shutter mechanism over a larger number of lenses
- the targeted usage of the camera where outdoor flash photography is considered important
Cheers,
Bernard
This is it. It is not made to cannibalize the H series who have other advantages. This is the digital Mamyia 7.
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ok, wil do so, but first getting the X1D... ;D
Well, at least you already have a sense of humor - that's priceless :)
Edmund
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@ Torger
I would have wished Blad would have more faith and courage.
Dividing the H6D Pro Line completely from the X1D would have been a much more clean and definite marketing approach.
Doing it the FPS way, which I think would have been Cheaper (there is a Copal shutter that also Phase uses), would have been a start for a second
Model line and total freedom of design. No backward compatibilty issues etc.pp.
And this would also have solved the cannibalizing problem: Light and easy - and Pro and heavy line. 100% clear and straight.
And - there is a gadzillion users out there who have been asking for this kind of camera to get wide open glass to save the medium format look.
All these will now NOT buy this camera. Is this really a good plan by Blad ? We have to many customers, we don´t need new ones ? ???
Jeez......
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Stefan,
You should look at it as a business opportunity.
"Just" build an adapter with shutter built-in.
As far as the EVF quality goes, this is in my view the only disapointement, but then again most a7rII users have been telling us that it is perfectly fine.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Amen.
Stefan, an Hcam FPS module for this with an EF mount in the front would be... For the lack of a better term, echt Hammer!
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I agree with Stefan about the lenses. They could do better than 3.2 and 3.5. Maybe just to save weight.
Also how can the MTF's be said to be so fantastic without information of the linepairs on the graph?
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Stefan,
You should look at it as a business opportunity.
"Just" build an adapter with shutter built-in.
As far as the EVF quality goes, this is in my view the only disapointement, but then again most a7rII users have been telling us that it is perfectly fine.
Cheers,
Bernard
Yes. that would really be a matter of courage. I have done something like this 7 years ago with the HCam B1, where we reengineered the Canon Lens Protocol.
And BECAUSE I have already done this: Never again.
Let´s see what the Sony (and others) answer to the X1D on Photokina will be.
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Amen.
Stefan, an Hcam FPS module for this with an EF mount in the front would be... For the lack of a better term, echt Hammer!
I see all this as a very tricky business. What about global shutter already being in the wings ? What use will a leafshutter have, as soon Sony releases the next generation of sCMOS chips with Global Shutter (which they already make with lower res for industrial ?) for Photography ?
To invest nowadays into a mechanical solution like leafshutter, seems an anachronism to me in this year 2016.
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As many here, I wish Hasselblad the best and feel a lot of sympathy for this fascinating brand. Also I like the design and a lot of their ideas behind the X1D. Nevertheless, I am also a bit puzzled about HB's business strategy.
- The first MFD with EVF means you have to convince the mirror aficionados (as myself) that EVF could work. So the new Epson EVF (or something similar) and multiple focus points were mandatory. Instead they have subpar resolution-specs for EVF and SCREEN and apparently only a single focus point. We have to wait, what first testers will say, but I am not very optimistic as far as I have experienced screens and EVF with that specs.
- I assume that there is a increasing number of enthusiasts who buy Hasselblad (as compared to professionals). As the X1D cripples nearly nothing compared to the H6D (except the EVF does not replace the OVF), I suppose there will be substantial cannibalizing. I bet, H6D 50 pricing will react accordingly once the upgrade phase finishes in september.
- Sony A7 was and is so popular also because a lot of people like to adapt other lenses, for economic and practical reasons, but also for creative reasons (think of all the photographers who adapt vintage lenses with special character). The first mirrorrless MFD should meet this demand but HB obviously does not want this. Only think of these nice old V lenses without leaf shutter like the 110 FE or MF lenses for Contax, Pentax, Mamiya, etc, etc.
- Wasn't one argument to gain other MFD users, like Leica S, to make a even more compact and cheaper MFD system? No Leica S user (at least which I know) would part from their S lenses, so adaptability is a must. This was exactly the strategy of Leica, when they produced all their adapters for Hasselblad H (even with working leaf shutter), V, Pentax 6x7, Mamiya, Contax.
This new camera seems to be very nice for current Hasselblad users and also for some enthusiast FF photographers who want to increase their sensor sizes without selling their kidneys, but not for P1, Pentax and Leica users.
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Lenses for the V System possess leaf shutter . I hope the adapter appears.
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Lenses for the V System possess leaf shutter . I hope the adapter appears.
Only the C lenses, not the F lenses which I am interested in a little bit more
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The first MFD with EVF means you have to convince the mirror aficionados (as myself) that EVF could work. So the new Epson EVF (or something similar) and multiple focus points were mandatory. Instead they have subpar resolution-specs for EVF ....
Probably a stupid question / idea, but at a time that Leica can improve their AF via a firmware update and Tesla makes their cars drive better every month via software updates:
can they improve the EVP later on via a software update?
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Only the C lenses, not the F lenses which I am interested in a little bit more
There is only one lens I like. 110/2. But I have few CF lenses... Anyway I think that dedicated lenses will suit better :-)
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Probably a stupid question / idea, but at a time that Leica can improve their AF via a firmware update and Tesla makes their cars drive better every month via software updates:
can they improve the EVP later on via a software update?
depends... for example what you see in EVF is the result of raw conversion... which is done by software in camera... but they can't increase the amount of elements in LCD/whatever emits there for your eye
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There is only one lens I like. 110/2. But I have few CF lenses... Anyway I think that dedicated lenses will suit better :-)
Adaptation of V leaf shutter lenses should be possible with the combined adapters V-H-X (not very practical though, I assume)
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which may be indicating that they use the electronically (by Firmware) corrected MTF´s only........
Am I feeling a tiny bit of negativity here? ;)
Considering the limited aperture and sensor size, I am not surprised by the MTF results.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Am I feeling a tiny bit of negativity here? ;)
Considering the limited aperture and sensor size, I am not surprised by the MTF results.
Cheers,
Bernard
pfff - not negativity. It´s just common status of technology now. Unless you measure the lenses on something like a K8/Zeiss
normal users - and that includes journalists testing the devices on bodies by software like Imatest - you will never see the real lens data.
They are buried in the raw (perhaps if that happens at a later stage) and if you use something like Raw Therapee you can even see it.
But if the cameramaker decides to do it deep down in the "throat" of the sensor electronics, you will never know.
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I don't agree with your analysis, I'm very positive about the camera. Sure I'd love to have FPS too, but what I want is not necessarily what sells the most cameras. If the choice was between $9k camera and 725 grams, or a $11k camera and 900 grams plus a bit bulkier form factor, just to fit the FPS, would the later option be better? I don't think so. Maybe it would not hurt the design that much, but the point is that FPS wouldn't come for free, and the slick lightweight sexy design plus the lower price I think is more important for sales than satisfying the niche of combining third-party lenses and tech cams. I would guess that there's like 20 enthusiast buyers that want a slick clean system on every 1 pro that mixes and matches bodies and lenses. Sure you can argue that with FPS the lenses would be cheaper, but no, medium format / hassy is so associated to leaf shutters so I think that either they would have had FPS + leaf shutters, or just leaf shutters like now. I'm not sure how good idea it is to have a MF-sized shutter in a light body either...
The video is probably because the sensor/platform simply isn't made for it. As far as I know anything but the most basic video does require quite some specific development, and I don't think video makes sense in medium format size at all (with like Arri's special rental only camera as the exception), so that it actually have some basic video is just a bonus.
The lack of highest end finder is a bit mysterious though, but I'd like to see it first before saying that it's actually bad.
Cannibalizing effect may be there for a narrow set of users, but what would they do instead? Set the price to $20k? They want to reach those that cannot pay for H6D. Working professionals, probably 90% or more of the H6D customer base, will go for the H6 for the feature set anyway, and maybe get the X1D as an extra body. I think pros that get X1D as an extra is more than those that get only an X1D instead of a H6D they otherwise would have bought.
+1
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pfff - not negativity. It´s just common status of technology now. Unless you measure the lenses on something like a K8/Zeiss
normal users - and that includes journalists testing the devices on bodies by software like Imatest - you will never see the real lens data.
They are buried in the raw (perhaps if that happens at a later stage) and if you use something like Raw Therapee you can even see it.
But if the cameramaker decides to do it deep down in the "throat" of the sensor electronics, you will never know.
… and do you know, on which basis Rodenstock, Leica and Zeiss publish their MTFs?
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… and do you know, on which basis Rodenstock, Leica and Zeiss publish their MTFs?
I am pretty sure Zeiss uses real data from K8 MTF optical (collimator)measurements.
http://www.zeiss.de/camera-lenses/de_de/industrial_lenses/lens_measuring_technologies.html
Rodenstock also uses optical measurements, last time I had seen it they used a specially modified device from another German company OEG, from Frankfurt/Oder
http://www.oeggmbh.com/?p=2&k=7&kj=&z=
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pfff - not negativity. It´s just common status of technology now. Unless you measure the lenses on something like a K8/Zeiss
normal users - and that includes journalists testing the devices on bodies by software like Imatest - you will never see the real lens data.
They are buried in the raw (perhaps if that happens at a later stage) and if you use something like Raw Therapee you can even see it.
But if the cameramaker decides to do it deep down in the "throat" of the sensor electronics, you will never know.
True, but there is no reason to suspect this considering the specs of those lenses.
Cheers,
Bernard
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True, but there is no reason to suspect this considering the specs of those lenses.
Cheers,
Bernard
These MTFs are of no use at all as long as they are not stating the linepairs/mm used normal standards are 10/20/40lpm.
Numbers with 10lpm look totally different than 40lpm.
So in this case - it´s just some nice graphics with not much information at all.
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I think it is a game changer. I have no interest in focal plane shutters. I have a Canon for that.
Leaf shutters was a main reason to go MF in the first place.
To me with an H3D it is a great upgrade and means that the Hasselblad is now as portable as the Canon.
I think it will not only attract H and maybe V series owners wishing to upgrade progressively but also those looking at a high MP 35mm camera with much better image quality that you can put in a backpack.
I don't know but it may have virtually no moving parts.
So given my H3D still works great (as do many H1s) a camera of this quality could last well over a decade.
I want one.
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I'm quite positive about the X1D overall. Looks like a great camera, and I want one too!
The lack of focal plane shutter doesn't bother me too much personally as I'd rather have the option for faster sync speed with the leaf shutter lenses anyhow. I do expect to see this camera be fitted to different technical cameras because of the shallow throat, and in those cases the users might like try all kinds of different glass. But I guess you can fit almost anything to different mechanical shutters so no real worries. If Stefan doesn't want to make active adapters I'm sure others will.
The EVF is something I'd want to work with before making any comments but for me the issue won't be resolution but rather lag. Maybe by going with a lower resolution they could speed up the processing and get less lag?
Otherwise this is all win in my opinion!
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These MTFs are of no use at all as long as they are not stating the linepairs/mm used normal standards are 10/20/40lpm.
Numbers with 10lpm look totally different than 40lpm.
So in this case - it´s just some nice graphics with not much information at all.
I assume its 10/20/40 as always with Hasselblad. What puzzles me is the comparison between the MTF of the new XCD 45 and the HC 50 II. The 45 is substantially better, but that might have to do with what you say.
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For all those who want to know more - this is the best read available - by Dr. Hubert Nasse/Zeiss:
http://lenspire.zeiss.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/03/cln30_en_web_special_mtf_01.pdf
http://lenspire.zeiss.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/03/cln31_en_web_special_mtf_02.pdf
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These MTFs are of no use at all as long as they are not stating the linepairs/mm used normal standards are 10/20/40lpm.
Numbers with 10lpm look totally different than 40lpm.
So in this case - it´s just some nice graphics with not much information at all.
Ah ok, you described them as suspiciously good (probably electronically enhanced) 5 mins ago and now they are useless... I must have misunderstood.
Cheers,
Bernard
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In another forum I read that the use of HC lenses via adapter will only be manual focus.
Anybody can confirm that?
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Yes I can :)
It will depend on the age of the lens but to be on the safe side assume MF with HC lenses.
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Thanks for the confirmation.
I assume shutter speed will be 1/800 with the older lenses.
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Yes I can :)
It will depend on the age of the lens but to be on the safe side assume MF with HC lenses.
Do you have more info about focusing with the native lenses?
- AF: how many points and how to select among them?
- MF: is there any focusing aid?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Single AF point using contrast detection.
I would think there would be MF focussing aid, have asked the question.
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I'm quite positive about the X1D overall. Looks like a great camera, and I want one too!
The lack of focal plane shutter doesn't bother me too much personally as I'd rather have the option for faster sync speed with the leaf shutter lenses anyhow. I do expect to see this camera be fitted to different technical cameras because of the shallow throat, and in those cases the users might like try all kinds of different glass. But I guess you can fit almost anything to different mechanical shutters so no real worries. If Stefan doesn't want to make active adapters I'm sure others will.
The EVF is something I'd want to work with before making any comments but for me the issue won't be resolution but rather lag. Maybe by going with a lower resolution they could speed up the processing and get less lag?
Otherwise this is all win in my opinion!
I think there is an opportunity for some to create a FPS adapter to use on this camera so other lenses can be used, both on tech cameras and hand held. I think though, having a FPS in camera would be a much better option, and, not having one, will cause those on the fence to not buy. I think there will be many on the fence.
I feel the size of the market of pros who put together Frankenstein systems in greatly underestimated. Speaking from my field, I know many architectural shooters who use a Frankenstein system to some extent (even my system is very Frankensteinish), and I would bet those numbers would be in the majority of APs. I also know many pros who use outdated lenses to create that look.
The resolution of the EVF I kind of feel could be a good thing. The more resolute the EVF is, the harder it is to surprise noise (due to the sensor working at a higher ISOs). Dealing with noise in an EVF is very annoying, but we will have to wait.
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There is no opportunity for an adapter because by the time the adapter comes out Hassy will release a firmware upgrade that does electronic shutter.
Edmund
I think there is an opportunity for some to create a FPS adapter to use on this camera so other lenses can be used, both on tech cameras and hand held. I think though, having a FPS in camera would be a much better option, and, not having one, will cause those on the fence to not buy. I think there will be many on the fence.
I feel the size of the market of pros who put together Frankenstein systems in greatly underestimated. Speaking from my field, I know many architectural shooters who use a Frankenstein system to some extent (even my system is very Frankensteinish), and I would bet those numbers would be in the majority of APs. I also know many pros who use outdated lenses to create that look.
The resolution of the EVF I kind of feel could be a good thing. The more resolute the EVF is, the harder it is to surprise noise (due to the sensor working at a higher ISOs). Dealing with noise in an EVF is very annoying, but we will have to wait.
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There is no opportunity for an adapter because by the time the adapter comes out Hassy will release a firmware upgrade that does electronic shutter.
Edmund
This is the only other reason I could think of for why they would not include a shutter.
Maybe they are future thinking and laughing at us back in Gothenburg.
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I'm starting to think from reading some of the comments on here that some people here are so pessimistic that they see a half full glass as 3/4 empty.
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I'm starting to think from reading some of the comments on here that some people here are so pessimistic that they see a half full glass as 3/4 empty.
LOL. Many photographic commentators don't own a Hasselblad, will never own a Hasselblad, don't know what a leaf shutter is, don't shoot manual because they can't and have never heard of the exposure triangle. Their Rebel sits on the Green Square and they imagine that the camera somehow knows what should be in focus and what should be correctly exposed.
Personally i am quite excited by this announcement and at that price point I think it will sell well to all of Hasselblad owners, other medium format owners and high end 35mm owners.
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I'm starting to think from reading some of the comments on here that some people here are so pessimistic that they see a half full glass as 3/4 empty.
I'm a pretty optimistic person and rarely complain about products. (Really, what is the point; I just don't buy them.)
But I just find it odd that Hassy would negate one of the main reasons people love mirrorless, open accessibility to using whatever lens you want.
BTW, I dont shoot mirrorless and have no plans to, but I know many who do and this one of the things I hear over and over again. It is just mind boggling! I really hope the IQ is amazing, otherwise I don't see this being a home run. I like MF and would prefer there be two main players, even though I am clearly in P1's camp. Competition just makes the products better.
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I'm starting to think from reading some of the comments on here that some people here are so pessimistic that they see a half full glass as 3/4 empty.
You know, this new Hassy thingy is crippleware; it doesn't do most of what an A7IIR does, and that's just too bad.
- inferior viewfinder
- inferior focus
- cannot take Canon and Nikon lenses
- no 4Kor 4K bursts
- no in-body stabilisation
- no multishot
I think what most of us were hoping for is a body with a *large* sensor -possibly in Pano format- that can use any brand C or N lens with a new-style Metabones, and possibly even Leica S, Hassy V and Contax lenses. With in-body stab and at least on-tripod multishot for those really incredible landscapes.
This is not a 1/2 full glass, it is a serving of an expresso when you want a glass of water.
Edmund
PS. I'm sure that apart from the stab and multishot, a revised sensor, better VF and some firmware would turn the list around. But that's not what's on offer today.
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Crippleware. That's just silly Edmund. I get that you are not going to buy one... what are you going to buy? Oh wait I know, nothing! :)
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Crippleware. That's just silly Edmund. I get that you are not going to buy one... what are you going to buy? Oh wait I know, nothing! :)
Maybe I'm gonna sell *all* my still video gear and get some pro video kit for documentary work. I've done some tests with a GH4 and it may be time to put my money where my mouth is :)
Nick - this camera solves a well known business school problem of how to introduce a new product just before your cash cow dies of old age. You bring in a new "calf" except it cannot do everything the H6 cow can, so the cow customers still buy cow milk, and then at some point you pension off the cow and make the calf the new milk provider. Sony already killed off their old Alpha line much in the same way, replacing it with mirrorless. Wait, that's wrong, they sold off their inventory by titanium-plating it and rebadging it a Hasselnut or something.
And I stand by my quote. The X1D is crippleware. With electronic shutter and a good viewfinder and on-sensor phase-detect focus all over the image area, it would be a real alternative to the H body, make people with dSLR shift lenses VERY happy, grow zillions of third party lens adapters and get a fan following like the A7RII.
BTW - as I wrote before, the only perfect systems are the obsolete systems; the H6 system is now just about perfect with the 100MP sensor, superb focus, good ergonomics and a complete lens assortment so it is (falsely maybe) logical to declare it obsolete. It would clearly be illogical to simply lower the price to attract more buyers, right? So before you know it, you'll be getting rich by ebaying Contax H6 WLF finders.
Edmund
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don't know what a leaf shutter is
it seems you miss the point that P&S cameras have (may be with few exceptions) leaf type shutters and can sync for example @ 1/4000... but it seems you never touched one, no ?
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they... have never heard of the exposure triangle.
Well, that's a good thing actually
On topic: I like the XD1 and would buy it if my budged allowed it.
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This thread proves that if Perry Oosting had walked across the water in the Skagerrak straight during the press conference today, people here would complain that he ought to have grown wings and flown.
The X1D is both beautifully designed and appears to be superbly executed. It has *almost* everything I would want in such a camera. It is scarcely larger than the Xpro with its (comparatively) minuscule APC sensor, has sharp lenses, simple clean UI, and features the best sensor yet built. Add GPS and wifi and what's not to love?
The inclusion of leaf shutters is, imho, one of its biggest features. Shutter vibration has noticeably degraded images on every MF camera I have seen that uses one. Landscape shooters work in the 1/4 to 1/30th range consistently and even the well-dampened shutter of the 645z takes a toll there with longer glass. A small cost, but a noticeable one. Leaf shutters solve that and are ideal in any environmental portraiture setting.
The only downsides are the meh resolution on the EVF. Yuck. (I still dislike EVFs intensely, but the SL's is getting there - this is well shy of that, but probably limited by the sensor's output, not Hasselblad's obduracy.) And the price. Better, but still painful.
Oh, and where's my all-black body? Chrome is nasty ;)
But well done Hasselblad. Very well done.
Over to you, Fuji and Leica.
- N.
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Thanks Nick, voice of reason.
This guys seems pretty happy with the screen:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2016/06/22/first-impressions-hasselblad-x1d/#.V2tO_1fwwUE
I've never been a fan of EVF but I'm old so..
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Single AF point using contrast detection.
I would think there would be MF focussing aid, have asked the question.
Thanks, this is going to be a make or break question for many.
AF is going to be pretty much unusable with this first body (single point, probably pretty slow on static subjects and unusable on moving ones), so MF aids will be essential since the EVF is not resolving enough to enable accurate focusing...
Cheers,
Bernard
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Single AF point using contrast detection.
but you can move that single AF point around the frame, right ?
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but you can move that single AF point around the frame, right ?
Unless you can do that via the touchscreen, I see no control on the camera that would facilitate moving an AF point.
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Single AF point using contrast detection.
I would think there would be MF focussing aid, have asked the question.
somebody has the camera and embargo is over - can't we get a PDF manual finally ?!
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This thread proves that if Perry Oosting had walked across the water in the Skagerrak straight during the press conference today, people here would complain that he ought to have grown wings and flown.
The X1D is both beautifully designed and appears to be superbly executed. It has *almost* everything I would want in such a camera. It is scarcely larger than the Xpro with its (comparatively) minuscule APC sensor, has sharp lenses, simple clean UI, and features the best sensor yet built. Add GPS and wifi and what's not to love?
The inclusion of leaf shutters is, imho, one of its biggest features. Shutter vibration has noticeably degraded images on every MF camera I have seen that uses one. Landscape shooters work in the 1/4 to 1/30th range consistently and even the well-dampened shutter of the 645z takes a toll there with longer glass. A small cost, but a noticeable one. Leaf shutters solve that and are ideal in any environmental portraiture setting.
The only downsides are the meh resolution on the EVF. Yuck. (I still dislike EVFs intensely, but the SL's is getting there - this is well shy of that, but probably limited by the sensor's output, not Hasselblad's obduracy.) And the price. Better, but still painful.
Oh, and where's my all-black body? Chrome is nasty ;)
But well done Hasselblad. Very well done.
Over to you, Fuji and Leica.
- N.
Thank you! I couldn't agree more (well I don't hate EVF's but other than that... :) ). My only additional beef, no C1 support or my order would already be in.
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Unless you can do that via the touchscreen, I see no control on the camera that would facilitate moving an AF point.
so one might think that H decided to preserve the mental sanity of H users who used to the one immutable AF point ... but w/o TrueFocus
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I'm starting to think from reading some of the comments on here that some people here are so pessimistic that they see a half full glass as 3/4 empty.
So, this forum is 3/4 empty, I guess?
<sigh...> And we could all hold each other's hands and sing together... Another opportunity is lost... Life is just unfair... :'( :'( :'(
But wait, not all hope is lost!! I heard there's a place up there where everyone is friendly and meets every new piece of hardware with genuine enthusiasm, wholeheartedly thanks manufacturer, and immediately places the order!!!
That magical land of untold beauty is called THE ZOO around these parts. I personally cannot guide you there, I am forever doomed to these empty forums, but just ask around, my friend, and someone less cursed than me will guide you there...
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You know, this new Hassy thingy is crippleware; it doesn't do most of what an A7IIR does, and that's just too bad.
It's not supposed to duplicate a mass production camera, or use lenses devised for a 35mm sensor, or be an ersatz video camera. You're also not going to get good images with an adapter that tries to expand the imaging circle.
It's a medium format stills camera. It's designed to be highly robust, very precise, and produce high-quality images, in a relatively compact form factor.
The target audience is not gearheads, it's working professionals and enthusiasts who want a large sensor in a highly portable body.
this camera solves a well known business school problem of how to introduce a new product just before your cash cow dies of old age. You bring in a new "calf" except it cannot do everything the cow can, so the cow customers still buy cow milk, and then at some point you kill off the cow and make the calf the new milk provider.
Yeah... no, that's not what is happening here.
Hasselblad makes expensive system cameras for studio use, and already has a modular 100mp high-end DSLR. That is not going away any time soon.
What will likely happen is the X1D will supplement existing pro MF shooters, who want a higher-quality body for field use. Given its price point, it might also sell to a few enthusiasts -- sort of like the Bronica SQ-B back in the day.
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but you can move that single AF point around the frame, right ?
Yes I'm pretty sure you can just touch the screen like on an iPhone for where you want focus.
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Yes I'm pretty sure you can just touch the screen like on an iPhone for where you want focus.
Hum, from a UI standpoint this is poor. You need to take your eyes off the EVF.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Well that's an option I assume you can focus/recompose too, again I don't know much about the AF, and I'm not a mirrorless user. Will try and find out more.
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Well that's an option I assume you can focus/recompose too, again I don't know much about the AF, and I'm not a mirrorless user. Will try and find out more.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hum, from a UI standpoint this is poor. You need to take your eyes off the EVF.
No.
Finger to touch screen first, then eye to EVF.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
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which may be indicating that they use the electronically (by Firmware) corrected MTF´s only........
I have checked and this is not the case, there are no corrections applied to those MTF results.
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I have checked and this is not the case, there are no corrections applied to those MTF results.
Great news!
Cheers,
Bernard
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Some reactions and comments…
Well, I would say that the X1D is in all probability an excellent picture taker. There is a lot of discussion about bottle sizes and filling levels. Understandably, some folks ask for FPS, as a focal plane shutter would enable wider lens choices, like with that A7rII.
It has been said that FPS are vibration prone, but that problem can be mostly eliminated by an electronic first curtain. I don't know if the Sony sensor has that feature.
The system is of course limited by lens choices and also by CDAF. Contrast Detecting AF needs lenses with focusing groups that can move very fast. The older H-series lenses are probably quite a bit slow at AF.
There are some comments on cropped format sensor. To some extent this is correct. But, one of the design targets was small size and affordable price, neither plays well large sensors.
The lenses are probably very good. They are pretty slow by todays standards, but probably a good choice for size and portability.
My personal take is that the camera system is a bit more limited than I would like, right now.
Best regards
Erik
Several reactions:
I do consider the X1D a game changer in terms of its fundamental premise: medium format image quality (and sensor) in an exceptionally small form factor. (The Sony A7RII is 625g; the X1D is 725g.)If you don't see that as a breakthrough, then pick up a Phase XF body with an IQ350 back and three LS lenses and take a nice long hike or walk around a city for the day. Then, do the same with the new Hasselblad 30, 45 and 90mm lenses. The XF is a great camera body, but it should have been put on a diet. So, depending upon the lens quality of the new Hasseblad lenses for the X1D, it could be a fantastic landscape/travel camera.
The X1D would have been really ground breaking 2 years ago. Now, less so. The Sony A7RII is already at 42MP, and rumors are that it will go to 72 or 75MP. The siren song of pure MP is powerful. Of course, Sony is aggressively moving away from its initial appeal to me by focusing its high end lenses on big, heavy and fast. I want light and small and can accept slower.
The X1D is the camera that the Leica SL should have been. Leica completely dropped the ball, IMO.
An obvious question is why leaf shutter lenses. Was it just so that the existing HC lenses would be compatible?Of course, you won't have to worry about shutter shock.
Why did Hasselblad not use the same type of EVF that the Leica SL uses, which is supposed to be exceptional. I can't understand that omission in a $9,000 camera body.
The X1D appears to be a beautifully designed camera body. I expect it to be a very functional design rather than being crapped up by a mind numbing menu system and controls like Japanese cameras always seem to be.
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Contrast Detecting AF needs lenses with focusing groups that can move very fast.
PDAF needs that too (why otherwise they have powerful ring USM motors), but what CDAF needs is a motor/focusing group that can not simply move fast (which we have already in PDAF lenses), but can do a lot of small start-stop-start- moves very fast __PLUS__ sensor readout speed/processor/firmware must to be able to feed EVF/LF and at the same time execute CDAF math and feed back commands to the lens motor ... for example Panasonic GH3, GH4, ... and some lenses (12-35/2.8, 35-100/2.8, etc) are operating @ 240 AF command loop iterations/sec while feeding EVF/LF at the same time
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This thread proves that if Perry Oosting had walked across the water in the Skagerrak straight during the press conference today, people here would complain that he ought to have grown wings and flown.
The X1D is both beautifully designed and appears to be superbly executed. It has *almost* everything I would want in such a camera. It is scarcely larger than the Xpro with its (comparatively) minuscule APC sensor, has sharp lenses, simple clean UI, and features the best sensor yet built. Add GPS and wifi and what's not to love?
The inclusion of leaf shutters is, imho, one of its biggest features. Shutter vibration has noticeably degraded images on every MF camera I have seen that uses one. Landscape shooters work in the 1/4 to 1/30th range consistently and even the well-dampened shutter of the 645z takes a toll there with longer glass. A small cost, but a noticeable one. Leaf shutters solve that and are ideal in any environmental portraiture setting.
The only downsides are the meh resolution on the EVF. Yuck. (I still dislike EVFs intensely, but the SL's is getting there - this is well shy of that, but probably limited by the sensor's output, not Hasselblad's obduracy.) And the price. Better, but still painful.
Oh, and where's my all-black body? Chrome is nasty ;)
But well done Hasselblad. Very well done.
Over to you, Fuji and Leica.
- N.
I have never used MF, and probably never will, because it is out of my price range. But I follow photographic developments very closely. I think you have summarized the new camera pretty well. I see this new camera as an entry point into MF territory. I can not understand the complaints about slow AF, or comparisons with Sony A7 system in that regard. Do people actually get MF cameras to shoot sports and action, I thought it was more for landscapes and studio?
I think the size of the camera is very important, again when the Sony A7 showed up, it was revolutionary because one could have 35mm sensor in a camera about the same size as the Fuji XE1 or Olympus EM1. Now the new X1D (who comes up with these names?) is about the same size as those cameras, while providing a much bigger sensor.
Should provide a nice, small, and light, travelling system.
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I find it a bit surprising that some seems to expect that the camera should be as feature-rich as a Sony, and when it isn't there's huge disappointment.
Hasselblad is a tiny company, trying to compete with the latest electronic features which they of course only can source in from others, is going to be futile. Sony has an entirely different capacity to develop advanced electronics on their own.
Instead what Hasselblad needs to compete with is simplicity, ergonomics, build quality, optical quality, and whether we like it or not -- the brand. As far as I can see without having actually held this X1D, it has pretty much maximized Hasselblad's qualities.
I was worried that Perry's background from luxury brands would cause the Lunacy to continue (and anyone remember the dreadful Ferrari editions?), but they now seems to be right on track, building the Hasselblad brand, Scandinavian design, "handmade in Sweden" etc, I personally think it's a bit silly with luxury/status stuff, but the chic city people like it and now they do it in a much more refined way, and if they continue play it right over the coming years I think they can raise to Leica status in that regard.
Personally I like simplicity, I like it when electronic features is not the central aspect of the camera driving you to upgrade and upgrade and upgrade. I find this camera to be really neat. I'm a tech cam guy though, I won't give up my Linhof for this, but I do see its qualities.
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While reading the comments so far, one gets a sense of what it doesn't have - and there are a few things I wish it had, etc.
Then there's a moment, sitting back, and thinking, gee, wouldn't that be a nice camera to have?
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I have never used MF, and probably never will, because it is out of my price range. But I follow photographic developments very closely. I think you have summarized the new camera pretty well. I see this new camera as an entry point into MF territory. I can not understand the complaints about slow AF, or comparisons with Sony A7 system in that regard. Do people actually get MF cameras to shoot sports and action, I thought it was more for landscapes and studio?
I think the size of the camera is very important, again when the Sony A7 showed up, it was revolutionary because one could have 35mm sensor in a camera about the same size as the Fuji XE1 or Olympus EM1. Now the new X1D (who comes up with these names?) is about the same size as those cameras, while providing a much bigger sensor.
Should provide a nice, small, and light, travelling system.
My guess is that Hassleblads target audience are a mix of potential H system users who couldn't justify the expense of that system and more of a landscape/travel market(both pro and amateur) who might previously have not bought the H system due to both price and size/weight.
Size/weight wise I don't think this camera is really aiming for most existing mirrorless, its never going to be pocketable and the lenses are not going to ever be small either(especially with the higher expectation of quality). What I think its targeting is that MF bodies(bar the Leica S) tend to be very bulky due to having to keep to 645 flange distance and potentially being modular. Look at this comparison with FF DSLRs and mirrorless and the Hassleblad next to the Pentax 645D(same size as the Z models that's obviously the alternative price wise)....
http://camerasize.com/compact/#567,624,678,211,ha,t
The savings in depth and weight with the Sony relative to the Nikon look relatively small next to those with the Hassleblad relative to the Pentax. That's I think a good position for Hassleblad as the DSLR market is still larger so obviously a lot of users are happy with that form factor but I'm guessing many potential 645z buyers may have been put off by its size/weight.
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Then there's a moment, sitting back, and thinking, gee, wouldn't that be a nice camera to have?
Yes, it is.
I would also have loved a better EVP, but with all the nice things it offers (better sensor than my H4D40, lower weight, promising new travel lenses, square crop, use of all my H / V lenses), I will go for it. Time also to dust off my old V / Zeiss lenses, that have been too long in the drawers.
For those, who are never fully satisfied with anything new that comes out : my wife doesn't have the complete full specs of the "ideal perfect lady", but I am still very happy with what I have.
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I think it is a game changer. I have no interest in focal plane shutters. I have a Canon for that.
Leaf shutters was a main reason to go MF in the first place.
To me with an H3D it is a great upgrade and means that the Hasselblad is now as portable as the Canon.
I think it will not only attract H and maybe V series owners wishing to upgrade progressively but also those looking at a high MP 35mm camera with much better image quality that you can put in a backpack.
I don't know but it may have virtually no moving parts.
So given my H3D still works great (as do many H1s) a camera of this quality could last well over a decade.
I want one.
Exactly my thoughts (H3Dii owner here, too).
I have Canons - and Sonys- for the things they are good at. I'm interested in the X1D because it will hopefully be good at the things my Hasselblad is good at. Like colours, and flash sync at 1/800th or 1/2000th of a second in full daylight with Hensel Porty strobes actually OVERPOWERING the sunlight, so I can underexpose the sky and get great saturation and colour impact. Try that with a focal plane shutter.
But lighter, with a decent rear screen and a damn sight cheaper than an H6D-50. Usable above base ISO. Usable in the mountains without breaking my ageing legs and back lugging the kit around.
I won't be buying right away. But if the reviews are positive and I like it when I hire it for a day, I'll be buying one in due course.
Shame that the HC lenses sound like MF only- focussing ease and accuracy is definitely one thing that might tip me back to a newer H-series if my H3Dii does start getting cranky. But as 95% of my shots on my current 'blad are with 50 mm and 80 mm lenses, the new 45mm and 90mm will do just fine for me. I'm already itching to book another shooting week in Norway and another in Spain to take advantage of a 1/2000th sync speed and the drama skies plus well-lit model shots I could take :)
Cheers, Hywel
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This model is for Hasselblad , what Cayenne for Porsche.
A flawed first attempt: the Macan now shows what could have been done (and outsells it).
Lots more of the analogy fails: the Cayenne was able to double Porsche production as it was based on a VW model and produced (if not 'finished') in the VW factory in Slovakia.
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A flawed first attempt: the Macan now shows what could have been done (and outsells it).
Lots more of the analogy fails: the Cayenne was able to double Porsche production as it was based on a VW model and produced (if not 'finished') in the VW factory in Slovakia.
This analogy is very apt. Cayenne helped raise funds and survive the company. Today, Porsche is doing quite well. In my opinion, X 1D will hit sales of the brand, like Cayenne. Macan must wait a little bit ;-)
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A flawed first attempt: the Macan now shows what could have been done (and outsells it).
Lots more of the analogy fails: the Cayenne was able to double Porsche production as it was based on a VW model and produced in the VW factory in Slovakia.
Woow, so many half-truths and flawed insinuations.
1. The Cayenne is not a flawed attempt. It is still the "best sporty 4x4" on the planet. A fantastic concept for large families.
2. There is sales and profit. The Macan's are selling well, but at a profitability that is much less than the Cayenne.
3. The Macan is a totally different car, more for fun / for the city, less for highways and off-road. At 130mph, a Cayenne stays as a rock. I would not do that with a Macan.
4. The VW plant in Slovakia produces also the Audi Q7 and Skodas. So what?
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I am puzzled by some of the comments. Complaints that something can be improved. Of course, it is always possible.
It should be borne in mind that it was supposed to be a simple design, light, giving very good quality. In this very easy to use. ( Very clear, easy UI) I think that it's designers have succeeded. It is a real return to the roots. The CEO feels very well this company, perfectly knows how to exploit the potential and the history that stands behind the brand. In my opinion he is one of the two best in the industry.
So I think that for those dissatisfied was created A7IIR. It's almost a perfect camera. You can make movies in 4k. It has a menu so extensive that only the Japanese know how to use it ... You could just list goes on
. I like things simple, high quality, designed for a particular purpose. For me, filming function is redundant. Do you want to deal with making movies? Look for a film camera such as RED or Arri.
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As much as I admire Hasselblad's new offering I'm not in the market for a medium format camera.
That said I'm haunted by the thought of the X1D with an HC 100 2.2 on the front.
never say never...
Only manual focus with the adapter would spoil it a bit though...
I still have 7 HC lenses and I was also thinking of the 100mm. I don't see myself putting the 50-110mm on this body though... :)
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Despite some perceived shortcomings congratulations to Hasselblad!
If the lenses are any good this could very well become a modern day Mamiya 7/7-II that so many have been asking for.
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Overall one thing is sure, even the XF was far from generating this amount of interest at LL! It is by far the most exciting MF new product in many years.
While the Nikon D5 and Canon 1DXmkII annoucements may have resulted in discussions thread barely passing the 2 pages barrier, here we are at 26 and counting!
Well done Hasselblad. I'll probably try to book a test some time in July if possible.
Cheers,
Bernard
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As usual, a very nice blog / article from Ming Thein.
https://blog.mingthein.com/2016/06/22/announcing-the-hasselblad-x1d-50c/
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I don't understand the complaint about the evf. Isn't it he same as the Sony A7RII which IMO is amazing?
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Hum, from a UI standpoint this is poor. You need to take your eyes off the EVF.
Cheers,
Bernard
If it's implemented like some other touchscreens you do not. You simply place your finger on the LCD while looking through the viewfinder and as you drag your finger across the screen you see the focus point move. Don't know if the Hassy does it this way but it does work on other cameras.
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http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/hasselblad-x1d-1323848/review
"As it's a mirrorless camera the X1D has an electronic viewfinder from Seiko (aka Epson) rather than an optical one, with 2.36 million dots giving a reasonably detailed view. According to Bengtson the company didn't opt for a higher-resolution screen because it would have reduced the refresh rate."
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I get all the "shortcomings" that have been noted. We all have slightly different needs and we all wish for more. For me, this seems like it works. I do primarily landscapes and seascapes. I think this will be an ideal backup camera for my XF100 and for days that I want to travel light this should fit the bill. I have looked at and shot with the Sony A7r2 and I can't stand the menu system. I know it's a good system but it just doesn't work for me. I look forward to trying the X1D.
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but I am still very happy with what I have.
or she reads the forum ;D
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or she reads the forum ;D
;D
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At first I was like WOW, good job Hasselblad. After some thought, I realized they created a very niche camera.
Basically a landscape shooter dream if he/she does not need movements: small and portable, high DR, high resolution, will see about the lenses. Product photographers may consider this one as well.
Other than that (f.e. portrait and anything where frequent re/focusing is part of the job) it's not much usable.
But as a first step into a new area (MF ML), it is a good attempt. I hope the evolution of this will net us some interesting cameras in the future.
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Someone else eg. Fuji or Sony, who don't need a crippled second string product, will do better.
Edmund
At first I was like WOW, good job Hasselblad. After some thought, I realized they created a very niche camera.
Basically a landscape shooter dream if he/she does not need movements: small and portable, high DR, high resolution, will see about the lenses. Product photographers may consider this one as well.
Other than that (f.e. portrait and anything where frequent re/focusing is part of the job) it's not much usable.
But as a first step into a new area (MF ML), it is a good attempt. I hope the evolution of this will net us some interesting cameras in the future.
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Someone else eg. Fuji or Sony, who don't need a crippled second string product, will do better.
Edmund
Your assessment of the X1D's virtues and flaws are all about YOUR expectations of what a medium format mirrorless camera should offer. For me, and I think I am not alone, there are two critical features of a medium format digital mirrorless camera. First is the form factor. Is it light and compact? Does it handle well? Is the menu system simple and intuitive? Do I enjoy using it as a tool? The second relates to the lenses. Are they relatively small and compact and optically excellent? So far, it appears that Hasselblad has met those design goals in spades. Would I like a focal plane shutter? Not critical to me. And definitely not if the byproduct is shutter shock like the original Sony A7R. Would I like it to use the Sony 100MP sensor? Sure, but at what cost in terms of price and size. Would I like IBIS, fast Phase Detection AF, better EVF, etc.? Sure, but they are not critical for me and many others. At the end of the day, every camera is a set of design compromises that involves trade offs. There are many photographers who have dreamed of a digital version of the Mamiya 7. The X1D appears to be that and much more, but we need to wait till final versions go out into the real world and are put to the fire. And if anyone for a minute thinks that Sony or Fuji will come out with their own medium format mirrorless camera with a full complement of lenses that satisfies everyone's checklist and works perfectly, dream on.
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Your assessment of the X1D's virtues and flaws are all about YOUR expectations of what a medium format mirrorless camera should offer.
and are expectations from FF mirrorless format different ? or are they different from APS-C , M43 and Nikon1 ? they are the all the same ;D
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There are many photographers who have dreamed of a digital version of the Mamiya 7.
I think that's right on the money.
And it's funny, but whilst I vaguely mused about Hasselblads and Pentax's and Contax's and Rolleis and so forth back in the days of film, the only film medium format camera I ever actually owned was a Mamiya 7, which I liked very much. So no wonder it seems like an attractive proposition to me.
I don't think Hasselblad were in any position to come up with an A7Rii technological powerhouse or a CaNikon beating autofocus sports shooting monster. But a digital MF Mamiya 7? Well played, Hasselblad.
Cheers, Hywel
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Someone else eg. Fuji or Sony, who don't need a crippled second string product, will do better.
Edmund
Perhaps nobody else will release anything as the market isn't large enough to justify the cost of a product with functionality we see in smaller formats?
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i think given fuji's background in mf film cameras we may well see something from them, and if it's anything like their current small sensor lineup i would guess that it'll be good.
it's nice to see this new camera, but i won't be jumping in on the v1.0, and my intuition tells me that fuji's (possible) offering would be interesting.
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i think given fuji's background in mf film cameras we may well see something from them, and if it's anything like their current small sensor lineup i would guess that it'll be good.
it's nice to see this new camera, but i won't be jumping in on the v1.0, and my intuition tells me that fuji's (possible) offering would be interesting.
Yes, i think $4K is the pricepoint we can expect.
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i'd guess a bit higher, but it'll have all those stonkin' features off the bat.
and i think they'll do a better job on the design front, not sure victor would have dug on the x1d "brickie-blobbyness" either...
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So true.
The XD1 is the most exciting new medium format camera introduction since...well...I simply can't think of another.
Great fun, a modern day Mamiya 7.
+1000
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i'd guess a bit higher, but it'll have all those stonkin' features off the bat.
and i think they'll do a better job on the design front, not sure victor would have dug on the x1d "brickie-blobbyness" either...
I was playing with an Xpro2 today, and I really like what Fuji have done with the finder. It feels like a *camera*, not like a miniature PC.
Edmund
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and are expectations from FF mirrorless format different ?
Yes.
Medium format is much more about deliberation, preparation, setup, and so forth. Although this camera is small for MF, it's not a generalist camera, it's not optimal for conventional sports / action photography.
MF is more for landscape, portraiture, architecture, still life, product photography -- situations where image quality is paramount, and factors like AF are not as important.
Plus, I don't think most MF shooters expect video capabilities, while 35mm and smaller do.
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If Fuji comes out with a MF mirrorless, I think it will have a richer feature set, lower price and satisfy a broader audience. It will probably have that focal plane shutter as many of us want. However I don't think this means Hasselblad has made it wrong with the X1D, what they should be doing with their capacity is a simple sexy camera with excellent optics and build quality, so far that looks good. Hasselblad is Hasselblad, Fuji is Fuji, Leica is Leica, Sony is Sony. Don't expect them to make the same products.
When I see a new camera like this I mostly think is this camera right for this brand and their market? What would I do in their shoes? Have they made the right trade-offs?
I think the discussion then becomes more interesting than approaching a new camera like "if I personally want it, it's great, otherwise it's crap".
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When I see a new camera like this I mostly think is this camera right for this brand and their market? What would I do in their shoes? Have they made the right trade-offs?
I think the discussion then becomes more interesting than approaching a new camera like "if I personally want it, it's great, otherwise it's crap".
Very true … and in this line of thinking Hasselblad nailed it.
Also we should not forget that the adaptation of third party lenses always has been a strategy of costumers ... more or less against the will of camera makers. They always want us to buy the whole package of camera and lenses. The two prominent exceptions, Sony A7 and Leica S have been selfish-business driven also … Sony had no good lenses at the time and the Leica S family of lenses was also very small in the beginning (+ limited by production capacities), so the manufacturing of lens adapters was a smart move, lowering the $$$ hurdles and buying them some time.
Hasselblad has the whole, very complete HC/D family, so why invite the competition to the buffet.
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Yes.
Medium format is much more about deliberation, preparation, setup, and so forth. Although this camera is small for MF, it's not a generalist camera, it's not optimal for conventional sports / action photography.
No, you are trying essentially to switch the subject here... reread what was written about MF dSLM = " Is it light and compact? Does it handle well? Is the menu system simple and intuitive? Do I enjoy using it as a tool? The second relates to the lenses. Are they relatively small and compact and optically excellent? " and how these, each and every question is not applicable to FF, APS-C, m43 dSLM cameras...
why do you think that for example m43 camera must be big & heavy, handle poorly, have complex and un-intuitive menu system, be not enjoyable in use as a tool and have poor optics which is relatively big & heavy ;D ?
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I think it looks like a great camera. I loved the Mamiya 7 I shot with film. It was near perfect for landscape. Love the leaf shutter lenses. Will have to try out the evf.
The light weight travel side of life is what most interests me.
Robb
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If Fuji comes out with a MF mirrorless, I think it will have a richer feature set, lower price and satisfy a broader audience. It will probably have that focal plane shutter as many of us want. However I don't think this means Hasselblad has made it wrong with the X1D, what they should be doing with their capacity is a simple sexy camera with excellent optics and build quality, so far that looks good. Hasselblad is Hasselblad, Fuji is Fuji, Leica is Leica, Sony is Sony. Don't expect them to make the same products.
When I see a new camera like this I mostly think is this camera right for this brand and their market? What would I do in their shoes? Have they made the right trade-offs?
I think the discussion then becomes more interesting than approaching a new camera like "if I personally want it, it's great, otherwise it's crap".
if, and let's be honest it's an IF, Fuji releases a MFML camera they will probably do the same stuff as they did with X100 and X-Pro1 (former owner of both) will be just enough for market and just a bit more than what competitor offers. in other words, not much ;)
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No, you are trying essentially to switch the subject here...
Or, not.
Edmund suggested the X1D is "crippled," in a post that suggested he didn't understand how 35mm and MF traditionally (and still do) differ.
So, when you asked whether the expectations were different, for different formats? I answered yes. Because they are. ;)
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Yes I agree
I'm not expecting an X1D to perform like my 810, I'm wanting it to perform like a lighter version of my H6D.
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If Fuji comes out with a MF mirrorless, I think it will have a richer feature set, lower price and satisfy a broader audience.
Yeah, I dunno. Historically, they made a lot of fixed-lens MF rangefinders, and one really weird system camera (the 6x8). None of these were exactly cheap, or chock full of features.
It might be cheaper, but we are talking about an expensive sensor in a low-volume camera. The market may be small enough that it's difficult for the economies of scale to kick in.
It will probably have that focal plane shutter as many of us want.
I really don't see why people are so obsessed with this.
Lots of MF cameras -- including many of the Fuji MFs -- used leaf shutters. They're quieter, reduce vibration, flash sync at higher speeds, reduce the flange distance, make a slimmer body, and make it compatible with H lenses. It might also be possible to adapt vintage MF lenses on the new bodies.
And of course, they almost certainly want you to buy their lenses, and not just for optimal performance. ;)
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Or, not.
Edmund suggested the X1D is "crippled," in a post that suggested he didn't understand how 35mm and MF traditionally (and still do) differ.
So, when you asked whether the expectations were different, for different formats? I answered yes. Because they are. ;)
Traditionally? Traditionally MF has a better viewfinder than 35mm. At least my Hassy 500C, my russian clone and my Phamiya all had nice large viewfinder images. When you pay $8K for a body, you asssume your middle-aged eyes will get at least the same image as when you buy a $2K Sony A7II or Olympus 4/3.
This thing is intentionnally sub-specced, so it can be "upgraded" later when the H series gets retired ot made mirrorless.
Edmund
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Yeah, I dunno. Historically, they made a lot of fixed-lens MF rangefinders, and one really weird system camera (the 6x8). None of these were exactly cheap, or chock full of features.
It might be cheaper, but we are talking about an expensive sensor in a low-volume camera. The market may be small enough that it's difficult for the economies of scale to kick in.
I really don't see why people are so obsessed with this.
Lots of MF cameras -- including many of the Fuji MFs -- used leaf shutters. They're quieter, reduce vibration, flash sync at higher speeds, reduce the flange distance, make a slimmer body, and make it compatible with H lenses. It might also be possible to adapt vintage MF lenses on the new bodies.
And of course, they almost certainly want you to buy their lenses, and not just for optimal performance. ;)
Leaf shutter is fine if one can adapt old lenses thanks to electronic shutter.
Edmund
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TWhen you pay $8K for a body, you asssume your middle-aged eyes will get at least the same image as when you buy a $2K Sony A7II or Olympus 4/3.
Which you will, the specs of the X1D EVF are identical to those of the a7rII.
The only camera on the market with a better EVF is the Leica SL.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The only camera on the market with a better EVF is the Leica SL.
Resolution-wise, there is also the Leica Q with 3,6 MP …. as Epson started mass production of their (Leica SL) EVF panels, I assume, it will be pretty standard at the end of the year.
The 2,3 MP EVFs are o.k, in the sense that you might get things done and, no doubt, there are a lot of advantages … but I feel a kind of aversion looking through them (using my RX1 and Olympus OM-D). Sure some people love them. The Leica S optical viewfinder, on the other hand, is a revelation, and makes shooting a joy.
Same holds for the LCD screen, evaluating focus at 100% with 0,9 MP is possible, but really no fun.
You may call this crippled (to offer something new in the X2D), or a business decision, to make the camera a little bit cheaper, but in my opinion its shooting into the own foot ...
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Traditionally? Traditionally MF has a better viewfinder than 35mm.
I wish you'd told that to Yashica 30 years ago. :D
I also have to say, as much as I liked W/L finders, it's a stretch to say they were better than 35mm SLR finders.
At least my Hassy 500C, my russian clone and my Phamiya all had nice large viewfinder images.
Yes, was it about the same size as... oh, I dunno... a 3" LCD? :D
Nor is a 2.36mp EVF a total disaster. That's the same as in my Pen-F, which looks pretty good.
This thing is intentionnally sub-specced, so it can be "upgraded" later when the H series gets retired ot made mirrorless.
Or:
It isn't crippled. It's not intended to replace studio cameras 4 times its price. (If a mirrorless MF replaces the current SLRs, it'll be a very different form factor.) It's a relatively light-weight MF camera you can take into the field, and might be useful to serious photographers who want a larger sensor in a more portable body.
The X1D isn't intended to be an A7RII with a bigger sensor. It's more like a Fuji 645 or Mamiya 7.
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Mousecop, with respect, on the 6x6 slrs some of us had prism finders, and even my Mamiya 645DII had a decent finder image. The H finder is also decent and the same can be said of the XF.
Edmund
I wish you'd told that to Yashica 30 years ago. :D
I also have to say, as much as I liked W/L finders, it's a stretch to say they were better than 35mm SLR finders.
Yes, was it about the same size as... oh, I dunno... a 3" LCD? :D
Nor is a 2.36mp EVF a total disaster. That's the same as in my Pen-F, which looks pretty good.
Or:
It isn't crippled. It's not intended to replace studio cameras 4 times its price. (If a mirrorless MF replaces the current SLRs, it'll be a very different form factor.) It's a relatively light-weight MF camera you can take into the field, and might be useful to serious photographers who want a larger sensor in a more portable body.
The X1D isn't intended to be an A7RII with a bigger sensor. It's more like a Fuji 645 or Mamiya 7.
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You may call this crippled (to offer something new in the X2D), or a business decision, to make the camera a little bit cheaper, but in my opinion its shooting into the own foot ...
Product planning and feature selection is something all companies do as part of their design process, but I would be surprised if Hassy had taken the risk to under-specify on purpose such an important product for their future. I don't think you can do that for a new product category. You do the very best you can with available technology to hit your core KPIs targets on what you identify as the most important features of your product for the target audience, and they you find ways to minimze the cost while still doing this.
Odds are that the choice of the EVF was related to other technological constraints such as the live view feed through put of the Sony 50mp sensor.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Some more info is coming through :
Finally, the early prototype only had one central AF point, with a Hasselblad representative telling me that more selectable points will be available on the shipping camera.
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Mousecop, with respect, on the 6x6 slrs some of us had prism finders, and even my Mamiya 645DII had a decent finder image. The H finder is also decent and the same can be said of the XF.
Edmund
I have got a Voigtlander 6x9 like the one below:
(http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00T/00Trnh-152013784.JPG)
It actually has two finders, one for framing and one for focusing. I find that the ergonomy and viewing pleasure of both is quite bad.
It is an interesting camera though, for nostalgic and personal reasons.
-h
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Finally, the early prototype only had one central AF point, with a Hasselblad representative telling me that more selectable points will be available on the shipping camera.
Good news, thanks!
cheers,
Bernard
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I have got a Voigtlander 6x9 like the one below:
(http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00T/00Trnh-152013784.JPG)
It actually has two finders, one for framing and one for focusing. I find that the ergonomy and viewing pleasure of both is quite bad.
It is an interesting camera though, for nostalgic and personal reasons.
-h
Yes, I have a Super Ikonta which a camera shop *gave* me; some of these cameras are superb picture takers - the school photographer when I was a kid used one for all the group pix.
I just wish I could get a digital Plaubel Makina, the ideal traveller's "pocket" landscape camera - for me.
Edmund
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Strikes me as slightly surreal to make comparisons betweem 135 format and amost any MF format cameras.
In film days you chose the format to suit the job; today, probably because of the very high costs involved, people might feel obliged to try to force the same out of both formats - it's a bit unreal, and a distorted practical decision.
135 was mainly used as a fast method of working, very often hand-held, whereas MF almost always required a tripod, if only to allow one to hold it steady enough to find focus and get the framing right. SLR MF cameras had heavy mirrors that induced shake and, worse, some also incorporated focal plane shutters that provided yet another layer of despair on top of the mirror problem. I owned both types. A Pentax 67 ll was never a big Nikon. Unfortunately.
Folks drool about the Mamiya 67 rangefinder one; I tried one in a shop and put it down almost at once. The viewfinder was a bad joke. Every bit as much guesswork as the Leica M cameras were. For some people, having a bit more or less of the subject on the frame might not mean too much; for many other pro users accuracy was very important, the one reason I never bought into Leica's R cameras, despite loving their look and their lenses: the finder offered a less-than-comparable coverage when up against Nikon's F, F2, F3 and F4 bodies.
Now, LV may be a very good thing insofar as accurate framing goes, but it's not a viewing method I'd chose for any 135 format work. I've used it with my own Nikon and in reality, found it to be as difficult to come to a decision regarding fine focus as I always face using the viewfinder screen. Digital offers many advantages, but good viewfinders don't seem to come as part of the digital 135 format package. They need to introduce a new idea: let's call it something revolutionary - a split-image screen! In fact, if you are going to be using a 135 format camera with LV switched into play, you would really be better off doing the same thing on MF instead, which you probably would have chosen to do in the first place, had money not been part of the considerable consideration!
Yes, the new 'blad is a very pretty machine, but when it comes down to paying for such an item, I think it requires to be more than that. People hold it up as being great for landscape; well, I'm not a landscape aficionado, but even with the limited work I have done in that province I realise the requirement for camera movements to be important; hell, even on 135 format it helps, if only to get some rise or fall!
I suppose that in the end, it will be just another option designed to fit a particular pocket. For Hassy's sake, let's hope there are enough of them.
As a footnote: yesterday I went into the 'blad website and looked at their other cameras; one had a video showing a guy sitting at a desk in front of a window, an old 500 Series in front of him, which he plays with (I guess he's supposed to be representing a designer making the future)... ironically, that old one was the one I would have back before any of the replacements. I wonder if Hassy saw the irony - or the danger.
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Yes, I have a Super Ikonta which a camera shop *gave* me; some of these cameras are superb picture takers - the school photographer when I was a kid used one for all the group pix.
I just wish I could get a digital Plaubel Makina, the ideal traveller's "pocket" landscape camera - for me.
Edmund
Good company: Helmut Newton made good use of Plaubel too. But then he had big 'pockets'.
Rob
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Rob, really, do you honestly think folk here buy cameras because they're pretty. You must have a very low opinion of your fellow contributors.
If people here bought cameras for image quality vs. price, we would see 3x as many Pentax users.
Photographers are as much creatures of fashion as creators of fashion.
Edmund
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Got the green light for Hassy USA so here we go :
The upcoming XCD 30 mm f/3,5 will have superior MTF, so superior that it will outperform the actual HCD 28mm f/4.
Every guys worried about wide landscape superior IQ can sleep very well and start to save money. Not that much money after all it will be around 3K US$.
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Got the green light for Hassy USA so here we go :
The upcoming XCD 30 mm f/3,5 will have superior MTF, so superior that it will outperform the actual HCD 28mm f/4.
Every guys worried about wide landscape superior IQ can sleep very well and start to save money. Not that much money after all it will be around 3K US$.
Except that 30mm on this sensor isn't really all that wide... ;)
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eronald, it's quite obvious you have a low opinion of contributors here and photographers in general.
Couple that with his near non existant experience with medium format cameras, it's perfect white noise.
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The upcoming XCD 30 mm f/3,5 will have superior MTF, so superior that it will outperform the actual HCD 28mm f/4.
Sounds great, 24mm equivalent is just about perfect.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Looks, status and brand is a factor when people buy cameras, yes. That's why there are luxury editions or accessories. It's not the only factor but it's there more or less depending on the buyer. Leica and Hasselblad has the brands that can build on that more than others.
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Numbers have never been my strong point.
Bernard, is that 24mm equivalent to 3:2 format once the 4:3 format has been cropped to 3:2?
It's angle of view, in other words on the diagonal. So it wouldn't be quite as wide as a 24mm on a 35mm camera but a little taller.
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I've been looking at the camera and its specs wondering if it really is the camera for me and then noticed the cost of the lenses available were really relatively cheap. Are the X1D lenses barrels made of plastic or similar or is it just the H lenses are way over priced considering both have leaf shutters capable of 1/2000 sec?
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I've been looking at the camera and its specs wondering if it really is the camera for me and then noticed the cost of the lenses available were really relatively cheap. Are the X1D lenses barrels made of plastic or similar or is it just the H lenses are way over priced considering both have leaf shutters capable of 1/2000 sec?
I haven't fingered on them but making them from plastic would be a huge mistake, I would be most surprised. Less margin on them I would guess to improve sales volume, and also smaller image circle.
MF lenses are "overpriced" for sure if you compare to 135 format, so there is a wider span for the manufacturer to adapt prices to what the target market is prepared to pay. The whole X1D system is more camera for the money than the H6 system, so I guess lens prices is affected too.
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eronald, it's quite obvious you have a low opinion of contributors here and photographers in general.
No, I do not have a low opinion of people who follow fashion to belong - after all this is what every fashion photographer sells. But I know that my cheap biker's leather jacket is as warm, tough, and long lasting as my expensive Armani. And a Swatch keeps time as well as a Rolex.
The Pentax has the same sensor as the Phase and Hassy 50mp cameras; fashionable people don't buy it because it is a no-nonsense unfashionable "value" brick, marketed to retiree japanese landscape shooters and low-budget hardworking pro photographers. The Leica S on the other hand is a luxury product that happens to be a very good camera.
I use an Elinchrom flash system with an Octabank 6' dish. Came an AD and model and said "we don't know what crappy flash you are using, but it did work. " They were pointing out so nicely that I wasn't using Profoto. Should I have a bad opinion of them because they are trendy?
Edmund
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yadi yadi ya
I think my 5 year old should join us in this kindergarten .)
Edmund
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Looks, status and brand is a factor when people buy cameras, yes. That's why there are luxury editions or accessories. It's not the only factor but it's there more or less depending on the buyer. Leica and Hasselblad has the brands that can build on that more than others.
Isn't that the same with all kind of consumer goods. Some people put emphasis on design and brand, others have a more utilitarian view of life. I couldn't care less, in which camp each member of this forum is. But something is clear to me, this X1D attracts people of the first camp, SWC-DNA (some see Mamiya 7, don't know if Hasselblad likes the idea), surprising form factor, one of the most valuable brands in the photographic worlds resurrected ...
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With perhaps Fuji and others joining the medium format digital club will 44x33 become the new 36x24?
:-\
;)
MFT is dead, APS is dead, and FF is looking so pale ... :-\
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Good idea.
He or she probably has as much experience with medium format digital cameras as some contributors posting here.
Hahaha.
Right on point.
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I have a full range of HC lenses that could be used with the X1D. The one HC lens that I would be concerned about hanging off the front of the X1D because of its size is the 210mm. It doesn't have a tripod foot. Unnecessary with an H series body. RRS does not seem to offer generic lens collars wit tripod feet. Hasselblad should consider offering one for the HC 210.
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Agreed Howard I think lens collars will be really important as the body will be hanging off the lens not the other way around.
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Rob, really, do you honestly think folk here buy cameras because they're pretty. You must have a very low opinion of your fellow contributors.
Keith,
"Yes, the new 'blad is a very pretty machine, but when it comes down to paying for such an item, I think it requires to be more than that. People hold it up as being great for landscape; well, I'm not a landscape aficionado, but even with the limited work I have done in that province I realise the requirement for camera movements to be important; hell, even on 135 format it helps, if only to get some rise or fall!"
I thought it necessary to post the entire sequence of words from which you quoted. My original reading of your post was that you were being tongue-in-cheek; I'm not so sure now, as this thread has progressed.
So just for the record: I am not expressing an opinion on fellow contributors at all; frankly I never gave them a thought when I penned those words. They are simply my view that the camera looks pretty, costs a lot of money, but doesn't deliver anything particularly wonderful in the sense of helping the landscape shooter do his shots any the better. He needs something different: movements.
And no, even 135 format couldn't come up with it, despite the introduction of something called a Kennedy - I think it was called that - a 135 monorail that turned out to be far too tiny to allow human fingers to operate it, and the bellows to handle wides.
If folks want to buy pretty why not? Far better doing that than pissing it against the wall somewhere. But not for me when it comes to cameras. If I spend on photography I still feel it needs justification, that I shall be getting something worthwhile out of it that's reflected in what I produce. It was exactly like that when I was working and could easily buy whatever I felt I needed. It wasn't about numbers, but about value to me. That's not been lost.
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Good idea.
He or she probably has as much experience with medium format digital cameras as some contributors posting here.
As I have little experience with MF, I hope you won't mind my saying that of all the cameras I have used, the one I enjoyed using most was my 500C or whatever the "cheap on sale" model with 80mm was called. I carted the thing around in my backpack around the world, and hugely enjoyed taking it out from time to time for ... one shot on Fujichrome 1600, metering with the cheapest incident light Sekonic meter. I had an ancient Rollei 6x6 slide projector. Before the Hassy I had a russian Kiev - with I think a 30mm? fisheye in addition to a couple of other lenses.
My experience with digital MF was bad, I never merged with the Phamiya and eventuallly sold it. For some reason no art I ever did with the Phase ever sold. All my "pro" images that were published, all the catalog work, and all the art prints I sold I did with Canon, although I used the Phamiya as a travel camera. As we all know, these days the only reason I pull out a camera is when I want to take an atmospheric image of my kid, and my new "pro" imaging activity is video, although I'm now directing rather than lensing.
I just wish that Hassy had found a way to sell digital versions of the V series rather than starting from scratch. The lenses I was lucky enough to handle were wonderful, and at least for amateur use, the shooting experience delightful.
Edmund
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JV, seems as though there'll be AF after all.
That said, I've only ever owned one camera with AF - Hasselblad H3 - and even then rarely used anything other than manual focus.
Sound great! Although I probably don't want to invest in another MF system, that being said I have changed my mind before...
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+1
I just wish that Hassy had found a way to sell digital versions of the V series rather than starting from scratch. The lenses I was lucky enough to handle were wonderful, and at least for amateur use, the shooting experience delightful.
Edmund
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I just wish that Hassy had found a way to sell digital versions of the V series rather than starting from scratch.
Isn't that the CFV-50c?
Cheers,
Bernard
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As I have little experience with MF, I hope you won't mind my saying that of all the cameras I have used, the one I enjoyed using most was my 500C or whatever the "cheap on sale" model with 80mm was called. I carted the thing around in my backpack around the world, and hugely enjoyed taking it out from time to time for ... one shot on Fujichrome 1600, metering with the cheapest incident light Sekonic meter. I had an ancient Rollei 6x6 slide projector. Before the Hassy I had a russian Kiev - with I think a 30mm? fisheye in addition to a couple of other lenses.
My experience with digital MF was bad, I never merged with the Phamiya and eventuallly sold it. For some reason no art I ever did with the Phase ever sold. All my "pro" images that were published, all the catalog work, and all the art prints I sold I did with Canon, although I used the Phamiya as a travel camera. As we all know, these days the only reason I pull out a camera is when I want to take an atmospheric image of my kid, and my new "pro" imaging activity is video, although I'm now directing rather than lensing.
I just wish that Hassy had found a way to sell digital versions of the V series rather than starting from scratch. The lenses I was lucky enough to handle were wonderful, and at least for amateur use, the shooting experience delightful.
Edmund
So basically, next to nothing that is relevant to pontificating on this forum like an expert in medium format digital.
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So basically, next to nothing that is relevant to pontificating on this forum like an expert in medium format digital.
Come on Synn, you can do better than that.
If you want a totally closed gassing shop, then you'd better look elsewhere. As with photography itself, if it, LuLa, were to depend on its elite performers and its pros, it would close shop today, not tomorrow.
For the record, the man's right: he knows what worked for him and what did not; that's all he's putting down. From my own experience, my two 500 Series cameras were fantastic for the jobs for which they were suitable. Yet, overall, I owe most to Nikon and Kodachrome which brought me in the bulk of my earnings.
Yes, photography was the only arrow in my quiver.
Rob
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Come on Synn, you can do better than that.
If you want a totally closed gassing shop, then you'd better look elsewhere. As with photography itself, if it, LuLa, were to depend on its elite performers and its pros, it would close shop today, not tomorrow.
For the record, the man's right: he knows what worked for him and what did not; that's all he's putting down. From my own experience, my two 500 Series cameras were fantastic for the jobs for which they were suitable. Yet, overall, I owe most to Nikon and Kodachrome which brought me in the bulk of my earnings.
Yes, photography was the only arrow in my quiver.
Rob
Saying what worked for him and didn't is well and good, but the said gentleman is in every thread, giving expert commentary on how this AF system performs better than that one, how this body locks up and the other doesn't, how this company should be pricing their products and so on, without having even smelled the products in question.
Now I am gonna take a cue from Keith and sign up for an online course to learn swimming.
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Saying what worked for him and didn't is well and good, but the said gentleman is in every thread, giving expert commentary on how this AF system performs better than that one, how this body locks up and the other doesn't, how this company should be pricing their products and so on, without having even smelled the products in question.
Now I am gonna take a cue from Keith and sign up for an online course to learn swimming.
So true ... book one training course for me too I'll pay you later.
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Rob,
But what a travel camera! Roughly the same size as my Leicas and smaller a lighter than your Nikons. What's not to like?
Yes!
Lots of detail, huge DR, needs to be shot at high shutter speed or on tripod (lack of stabiliser), accurate but slow focus.
Smaller than Nikon or Canon SLRS. Wide and normal lenses.
Exactly what one needs for a travel camera.
Edmund
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This camera is definitely growing on me...
But I will patiently wait till more reviews become available and by that time it will be Photokina and we will hopefully also know more about what the competition has lined up.
As a S2-owner it will also be interesting to see what Leica has in mind.
Now that both Pentax and Hasselblad are below the $10K price point selling a 37MP camera at $16K is no longer commercially viable IMHO.
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This camera is definitely growing on me...
But I will patiently wait till more reviews become available and by that time it will be Photokina and we will hopefully also know more about what the competition has lined up.
As a S2-owner it will also be interesting to see what Leica has in mind.
Now that both Pentax and Hasselblad are below the $10K price point selling a 37MP camera at $16K is no longer commercially viable IMHO.
The Leica S/S2 is a great platform. The body (amazing viewfinder) and lenses are awesome. The sensor might be its weak point but it is not that far off the Sony 50mm which I think fits into the body no problem and the lenses have enough coverage. So it is still a future possibility for Leica. The short flange focal length is also a plus for adapting many lenses.
The X1D looks like a superb platform as well but the EVF is it's weak point. Hasselblad can easily fix that in future models (along with better AF and adding other features). The X1D changes the game no question but it would have made a HUGE impact had it incorporated a mechanical shutter.
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As much as the camera is growing on me, I can't help but think that the door is still wide open for the competition. If anyone releases a FFMF mirrorless with a focal plane shutter or an electronic global shutter to accommodate legacy glass, the conversation will move elsewhere quickly.
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As much as the camera is growing on me, I can't help but think that the door is still wide open for the competition. If anyone releases a FFMF mirrorless with a focal plane shutter or an electronic global shutter to accommodate legacy glass, the conversation will move elsewhere quickly.
If one follows this line of reasoning, then the warm reception seen so far should be interpreted as a wish for more :)
Edmund
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If one follows this line of reasoning, then the warm reception seen so far should be interpreted as a wish for more :)
Edmund
The angry mob led by Edmund himself.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/63262334.jpg)
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Looks, status and brand is a factor when people buy cameras, yes. That's why there are luxury editions or accessories. It's not the only factor but it's there more or less depending on the buyer. Leica and Hasselblad has the brands that can build on that more than others.
Camera manufacturers obviously spend resources on product appearance. This indcates that they believe that looks means something to the average buyer.
Of course, perfectly rational buyers are not average in any way and through complete insight into their own mind they just switch off biases as needed.
h
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If Hasselblad can make this camera in Sweden targeting a relatively small production run... What prices can we expect if the Japanese big players decide to have a go at it?
I am guessing that many D810/5Ds owners would be willing to sacrifice AF speed, framerate, lens selection etc if they could have the argueably "best" camera sensor out there without increased size, weight, a moderate price increase.
-h
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If Hasselblad can make this camera in Sweden targeting a relatively small production run... What prices can we expect if the Japanese big players decide to have a go at it?
I am guessing that many D810/5Ds owners would be willing to sacrifice AF speed, framerate, lens selection etc if they could have the argueably "best" camera sensor out there without increased size, weight, a moderate price increase.
Potentially yes, that will depend also on what is announced next by Nikon and Sony.
I have a very significant investement in F mount lenses, many of which without equivalent in the MF world.
I would be a question of figuring out what I would do with what camera, what I would gain in terms of look/image quality/success ratio, the cost impact,...
The X1D is interesting but I don't know yet if it is interesting enough to replace my collection of Otus lenses. I would gain AF, a slightly larger sensor but would loose some DoF control and possibly a few points in lens quality and ability to fine tune manual focus.
It really is a difficult call and I am not sure that testing the X1D for a few minutes would provide decisive decision making information.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Potentially yes, that will depend also on what is announced next by Nikon and Sony.
I have a very significant investement in F mount lenses, many of which without equivalent in the MF world.
I don't get your reasoning. F-mount lenses are designed for a 24x36 sensor, they will not cover anything bigger as a rule. Or do you expect Nikon to announce a mirrorless camera with a 24x36 sensor capable to use F-mount lenses? That camera already exists, is made by Sony and is called A7.
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If Hasselblad can make this camera in Sweden targeting a relatively small production run... What prices can we expect if the Japanese big players decide to have a go at it?
I am guessing that many D810/5Ds owners would be willing to sacrifice AF speed, framerate, lens selection etc if they could have the argueably "best" camera sensor out there without increased size, weight, a moderate price increase.
-h
I am one of those people.
For most of my work, the AF speed, points, frame rate etc. of my D800 is too much camera.
I use it mostly when I need ISO flexibility, extra long exposures or an ultra wide perspective.
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I don't get your reasoning. F-mount lenses are designed for a 24x36 sensor, they will not cover anything bigger as a rule. Or do you expect Nikon to announce a mirrorless camera with a 24x36 sensor capable to use F-mount lenses? That camera already exists, is made by Sony and is called A7.
To me EVF is a means by which MFish bodies like the X1D can get in the same bulk ballpark as DSLR or even a bit smaller, but I would buy the X1D in spite of its EVF, not thanks to its EVF.
So that aspect won't have a huge influence on my decision, the decision will be driven by image quality and by the lack of major inderhance in terms of usability (a poorly implemented auto ISO could by itself remove any image quality advantage at iso usability),...
I am not sure that a 50mp X1D with its apparently excellent lenses would deliver superior image quality compared to a 70mp D900/a9 with an Otus. It may or it may not.
From a cost standpoint, moving to the X1D would probably cost me around 5,000 US$ + the annoyance of having to manage auction sales. There better be a significant advantage. ;) In comparison upgrading to a D900 would cost me around 2,000 US$ and I would be able to use my full range of lenses with it...
Cheers,
Bernard
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If Hasselblad can make this camera in Sweden targeting a relatively small production run... What prices can we expect if the Japanese big players decide to have a go at it?
I am guessing that many D810/5Ds owners would be willing to sacrifice AF speed, framerate, lens selection etc if they could have the argueably "best" camera sensor out there without increased size, weight, a moderate price increase.
-h
Production in Japan won't be cheaper than in Sweden, but a big group could source latest generation EVF and display and sensor to which non-japanese wouldn't get access. As we all know, Phase and Hassy displays were for a long time not exactly the most appealing part of the product, and this trend seems to continue with the new Hassy EVF.
And then there is this perverse japanese attitude that normal members of society are supposed to be able to afford consumer products, whereas as Hasselblad once told me they see themselves as "reserved for an Elite". So I would expect a Fuji or Pentax product to trade at most at 60% of the swedish product. On the other hand, the swedish product may have more "western" design, have buttons physically sized for westerners with large hands, and be better repairable.
A french engineer who subcontracted some instrument manufacture for me had portable audio disc jockey mix stations of his own design as a steady seller. One of the sales points was that the buttons were separated enough for "American disc-jockeys with very thick fingers". Also, as it is very conventional discrete electronics it can stand up to any amount of abuse and is field-repairable by anyone with a soldering iron.
I think there is room for both western and eastern build philosophies and pricepoints; personally I have always preferred the western designs, more stolid and more solid. The market doesn't share my opinion, as the large German camera industry has mostly died out.
Edmund
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I think it is truly outstanding from HBlad to be introducing a kind of FF EVF camera before Nikon and Canon; Usually Medium format is lagging a few years behind.
I am sure the next half year we will see more FF-mirrorles coming.
Looking back I think especially Nikon has missed a great opportunity to bring out Otus-type of lenses as soon as they released the D3x with its excellent sensor.
Instead they released a new 300€ mediocre -50mm1.4; as if they did not understand that they were entering a new era were FF can be as good as a former Hblad.
At that time they had a two years advantage with the 24MP sensor over the competition.
Now, with the knowledge from making the Nikon1 series they know exactly how to built a good FF-mirrorless.
If it has an outstanding EVF it could be surpassing Hasselblad for the first time in terms of the quality of the viewfinder.
Sony and Hblad make sure that we are entering the FF-EVF-era, from now on. I personally would like a camera that has both a very good OVF and a very good EVF to choose from.
At the moment my EVF is the viewfinder with a loop. Good EVF, but not very convenient.
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Looking back I think especially Nikon has missed a great opportunity to bring out Otus-type of lenses as soon as they released the D3x with its excellent sensor.
Instead they released a new 300€ mediocre -50mm1.4; as if they did not understand that they were entering a new era were FF can be as good as a former Hblad.
I took my new-design 85/1.4 and my D3x with me to Boulder when I visited Norman, the author of Imatest. We set up together, and he then said it was the best lens he'd ever tested. In the sense that it outresolved the D3x so far that we could barely see any variation across the field.
Like many, I prefer my old 85 to the newish one, but it is clear that at least some lens teams in Nikon shared your point of view that 35mm could be very very good, technically speaking.
Edmund
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Hi Bernard,
Interesting and good questions.
Best regards
Erik
Potentially yes, that will depend also on what is announced next by Nikon and Sony.
I have a very significant investement in F mount lenses, many of which without equivalent in the MF world.
I would be a question of figuring out what I would do with what camera, what I would gain in terms of look/image quality/success ratio, the cost impact,...
The X1D is interesting but I don't know yet if it is interesting enough to replace my collection of Otus lenses. I would gain AF, a slightly larger sensor but would loose some DoF control and possibly a few points in lens quality and ability to fine tune manual focus.
It really is a difficult call and I am not sure that testing the X1D for a few minutes would provide decisive decision making information.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I saw some comment to the effect that this camera does not do lense movements.
Is that only a comment on the current lense (system)? I would guess that other MF lenses can/could be adopted pretty much like how FF lenses are adopted to the Sony 7 series?
-h
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I saw some comment to the effect that this camera does not do lense movements.
Is that only a comment on the current lense (system)? I would guess that other MF lenses can/could be adopted pretty much like how FF lenses are adopted to the Sony 7 series?
-h
Only if those lenses have an integrated shutter or the camera is updated to include a fully electronic shutter. The reason you can do it with the Sony a7 series is because the camera has a focal plane shutter and the later models also have a fully electronic shutter.
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Answer on manual focus and dof scale
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In regards to auto focus, this is what Hasselblad had to say:
The cameras on display at the announcement event had touch screen controls for working the menus and for making feature selections, but they didn't allow touch AF controls. 'It is still early days for this camera but when it comes to market it will have touch AF and the AF points will be spread across the screen. You will press the AF/MF button and an AF point display will appear on the screen and then you can select the point you want to use.
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Only if those lenses have an integrated shutter or the camera is updated to include a fully electronic shutter. The reason you can do it with the Sony a7 series is because the camera has a focal plane shutter and the later models also have a fully electronic shutter.
Aha. Would it be possible to make a shutter-adapter for SLR-type MF lenses?
-h
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Perhaps, but one has to understand that the market for making a phase/Leica s adapter with the Leafshutter is a tiny one compared to making adopters for a Sony.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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Thanks.
Good news on the DOF info, less so on the manual focus "by wire"
I thought I would be disappointed too. But after trying it on hand, the "by wire" manual focus is really damn good, probably except when adjusting by very, very minute movement.
I'm totally fine with it.
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Does this sound the long awaited death knell for FF?
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Does this sound the long awaited death knell for FF?
Seriously doubt it. http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/seven-reasons-why-im-still.html
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So whats a game changer? Something which Define game changer: a newly introduced element or factor that changes an existing situation or activity in a significant way (MW) whats groundbreaking? introducing new ideas or methods MW which is a bad definition from my view thing about breaking the ground that will be something very special.
No the camera is not from my view. So its very small like a SLR camera yes it is but: For me medium format has always been 6x6 like in my old Rollei etc. So this 50 MP Sensor is smaller but we can not use bigger one`s. Its mirrorless yes this is fine but it uses an EVF. So in handling this camera the advantage of MF in composing the picture is gone the EVF is much bader than an optical one and the bigger back scene did not have any light shades so it will be difficult to use in the landscape. The problem with mirrorless nowadays is much better reviewed by Tom Hogan. You need new lenses, There is a real small MF market now you will need new lenses for another system? No the Zeiss Lenses are expensive but good, so why new lenses? The Distance between lenses and the sensor may have been changed in another way. My main complain is that for me medium format is about composing the picture. Why not to choose the screen of the sensor back to preview the picture? of course you may need the change the back to a tiltable screen and protect it from external light f.e. by a motor moveable shade around the display. Why is the sensor backsceen in MF not moveable?? this back modification may also be an advantage the the normal MF series. One of the biggest advantages may be the possible integration os all camera feedbacks in the composing screen. So Hasselblad tried to minimize the size of aMF camera to a 35mm camera. But why, do we need it, no. If I will have a smaller camera than I choose a 35mm, i get also nowadays similar resolution. So my composing fun is killed by an EVF, may be - to say it hard - the hold story is, that we need to buy new lenses for marketing reasons. Also I am happy that the half dead Hasselblad manufacturer shows signs of new life and this development is light years better than the stupid rebranding in the past Hasselblad area. So I am personally now waiting for a mirrorless Phase One some day.
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I just don't get why people want to rant at a piece of equipment that, in this case, none of them has held let alone used.
I've been a photographer for 40 years and can honestly say I have never been upset by a camera I did not own. I've been upset by a few I have owned mind.
Paul
+1
The X1D is a huge success why rail against it?
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So whats a game changer?
A game changer is when THE GAME ...changes!
Something which Define game changer: a newly introduced element or factor that changes an existing situation or activity in a significant way (MW) whats groundbreaking? introducing new ideas or methods MW which is a bad definition from my view thing about breaking the ground that will be something very special.
No the camera is not from my view. So its very small like a SLR camera yes it is but: For me medium format has always been 6x6 like in my old Rollei etc. So this 50 MP Sensor is smaller but we can not use bigger one`s. Its mirrorless yes this is fine but it uses an EVF. So in handling this camera the advantage of MF in composing the picture is gone the EVF is much bader than an optical one and the bigger back scene did not have any light shades so it will be difficult to use in the landscape. The problem with mirrorless nowadays is much better reviewed by Tom Hogan. You need new lenses, There is a real small MF market now you will need new lenses for another system? No the Zeiss Lenses are expensive but good, so why new lenses? The Distance between lenses and the sensor may have been changed in another way. My main complain is that for me medium format is about composing the picture. Why not to choose the screen of the sensor back to preview the picture? of course you may need the change the back to a tiltable screen and protect it from external light f.e. by a motor moveable shade around the display. Why is the sensor backsceen in MF not moveable?? this back modification may also be an advantage the the normal MF series. One of the biggest advantages may be the possible integration os all camera feedbacks in the composing screen. So Hasselblad tried to minimize the size of aMF camera to a 35mm camera. But why, do we need it, no. If I will have a smaller camera than I choose a 35mm, i get also nowadays similar resolution. So my composing fun is killed by an EVF, may be - to say it hard - the hold story is, that we need to buy new lenses for marketing reasons. Also I am happy that the half dead Hasselblad manufacturer shows signs of new life and this development is light years better than the stupid rebranding in the past Hasselblad area.
I think you was practicing too much at DPR and the "Thom Hogan this, TH that" posts... All that meaningless nonsense only to say THIS:
So I am personally now waiting for a mirrorless Phase One some day.
That would change the changed before game? ;D ...good luck waiting! :'(
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So whats a game changer? Something which Define game changer: a newly introduced element or factor that changes an existing situation or activity in a significant way (MW) whats groundbreaking?
Overall I would say that a product is a game changer when a sufficient percentage of the target buyers agree it is a game changer.
Considering the very positive response the X1D has received from target buyers, it may be one.
I am still on the fence, haven't had the chance to play with one yet, but it sure looks interesting and is IMHO by far the most interesting move in the MF world in a long time.
Cheers,
Bernard
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It is a game changer because prior to this, there was no way one could buy medium format imaging with autofocus this portable, at any price, let alone the 4 figures it retails for.
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When are they shipping and are there any actual reviews like from Steve huff or the likes????
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When are they shipping and are there any actual reviews like from Steve huff or the likes????
https://blog.mingthein.com
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Any news on a cable release option?
I attended a presentation of the X1D and asked that question. The answer was that there was no cable release, but one could use an app via wi-fi instead.
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I would say the WiFi app may be great!
Sony implements cable release over that "mini USB2" and that works fine, but you still need mess with cables. Having a phone app for exposures may be a great thing!
Best regards
Erik
I attended a presentation of the X1D and asked that question. The answer was that there was no cable release, but one could use an app via wi-fi instead.
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Wish camera manufacturers leave my phone alone! >:(
I'll pass.
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I would say the WiFi app may be great!
Sony implements cable release over that "mini USB2" and that works fine, but you still need mess with cables. Having a phone app for exposures may be a great thing!
I have an H4D-50, a Sony RX100M3 and a Go-Pro camera.
On the H4D-50, I use a 8€ remote control. It is quite light, does not need batteries and takes very little place in the bag. It is a bit unhandy to plug it in, due to the position of the connector on the camera, but it does the job. Basically, on somewhat static subjects, I raise the mirror and use the remote to make sure there are no vibrations.
On the Sony RX100M3, I have used the built-in wifi a few times. It needs an app on the iPhone (or Android). It needs half a minute or so to connect once the camera wifi is on and then streams the camera viewfinder on the phone. There is a small delay between the button press on the phone and the actual shutter release. The distance at which the connection is lost is surprisingly small, less than 5 meters or so (so less than what would be needed for a wildlife trap, for example). The system empties the batteries quite fast on both the camera and the phone, so I need to switch it off between takes to conserve power (and then wait to reconnect, etc). Last but not least, an iPhone is surprisingly inconvenient to use outside, especially when it is raining a bit or quite cold.
On the Go-Pro camera, I use the built-in wifi to adjust settings (the camera lacks a decent built-in interface). The app, different from the one for the Sony, behaves in a similar manner. Range is much better, at least 50 meters.
On both the Sony and the Go-Pro, the app is sometimes upgraded to a new version together with the other apps on the phone. Sometimes, that also requires that the camera firmware is upgraded, which is a rather complicated process and cannot be done in the field. I had the inconvenient surprise once to find out away from home that the new app would refuse to communicate with the old firmware, so I had to do without the wifi for that session.
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I too used a cheap Chinese remote on my H3D, it was at least as good as Hasselblad's expensive option. I neither own nor have the desire to own a smartphone.
I simply can't believe this glaring omission by Hasselblad.
Maybe Hasselblad believes that the people who can buy a 8000€ camera (plus the money for the lens) can also spend 500€ for a smartphone?
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Maybe I need to explain a bit more.
When Hasselblad designs a new camera like the X1D, they need to sell it to a few thousands customers. It seems that their idea of the X1D customer group orbits around people who already own a smartphone. That you are not in that group is unfortunate, but they are trying to please the larger group.
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+1
I would gladly use it in case of an emergency but I'd prefer a google times to use a dedicated remote.
Maybe I need to explain a bit more.
Even if I owned a smartphone I wouldn't want to use it as a release. What I would want to use is a simple cable release as I did on every Hasselblad I ever used.
EDIT: I should add that a well respected contributor to this website who is closely associated with Hasselblad predicted that I would be one of the first to buy the X1D. Never going to happen if a dumbphone is the only option as a release.
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Maybe I need to explain a bit more.
Even if I owned a smartphone I wouldn't want to use it as a release. What I would want to use is a simple cable release as I did on every Hasselblad I ever used.
You don't need to convince me. I am perfectly happy with a simple release and do not want to have to use an app either. It is just that, for whatever reason, neither you nor me are the user group Hasselblad built the X1D for, apparently.
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Overall I would say that a product is a game changer when a sufficient percentage of the target buyers agree it is a game changer.
Considering the very positive response the X1D has received from target buyers, it may be one.
I am still on the fence, haven't had the chance to play with one yet, but it sure looks interesting and is IMHO by far the most interesting move in the MF world in a long time.
Cheers,
I agree with Bernard!
I have great hope this camera will drop 4 to 5 pounds from my camera bag and deliver images of the quality I get with the H5D-50c WiFi I currently own. I've ordered the X1D, just today, and the lens adapter so I can use my current 28 and 100 on it until the lens stable expands to cover what FOV I like. But, bitch all you want, it's a game changer for anyone wanting 16bit files and 50MP RAW images. And I'm putting my money where my "keyboard" key are (mouth is).
Bernard
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Hey Keith
To be fair to Hasselblad I think this was conceived as a "walk around" camera rather than something to be mounted on a tripod. BTW I have asked the question re remotes on your behalf.
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30 plus pages of comments and we get bogged down on a cable release?
I guess that means it's pretty good.
I agree it should take a cable but if the camera doesn't have a mirror and it doesn't have a focal plane shutter than the two main causes of shake are gone.
A 2 sec delay would overcome most finger problems for most people. If you need instant then reach for the phone (until V2 no doubt).
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Lust4Life, the above is a post I made towards the beginning of this thread and I haven't changed my mind.
I agree the X1D is a game changer, I'm merely bitching the detail.
So it's not a pug? :P
Edmund
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Lust4Life, the above is a post I made towards the beginning of this thread and I haven't changed my mind.
I agree the X1D is a game changer, I'm merely bitching the detail.
I do carry an iPhone, but I agree with Keith. A hard wired cable release should be made available. I have tried using my iPhone to operate my Sony A7RII and I find it buggy at best. I actually find myself using the self timer in the Sony A7RII rather than the remote cable release because the connection to the camera is not very convenient for attaching the cable release.
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An IR remote would be fine too, but I also wouldn't want to have to use a wifi connection to trigger the camera, they never work when you want them to. Plus smartphones run out of battery way too early in the wild.
The current status simply rules out the X1D as a serious landscape camera. IMHO.
But it was probably never meant to be one?
Cheers,
Bernard
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Or moving subjects. I do fine with 2s delay, mostly but it is not workable when good timing is needed.
Best regards
Erik
BTW, delay is not an option in fast moving light.
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Hey Keith
To be fair to Hasselblad I think this was conceived as a "walk around" camera rather than something to be mounted on a tripod. BTW I have asked the question re remotes on your behalf.
Hey Nick
Ummm does this "walk around" camera have a tripod screw mount on it? Just asking as I have not seen a pic of the bottom of it anywhere.
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An IR remote would be fine too, but I also wouldn't want to have to use a wifi connection to trigger the camera, they never work when you want them to. Plus smartphones run out of battery way too early in the wild.
Hi Bernard,
There are other third party Wireless possibilities (assuming the use of an electronic Cable release is possible and a cable available). I've used my PocketWizards for remote release (on another camera), and a radio controlled release (made by Phottix). Both are quite reliable.
The current status simply rules out the X1D as a serious landscape camera. IMHO.
A bit too harsh and generic, but I agree it's an improvement opportunity for those who use the camera on a tripod and/or need to trigger the shutter wirelessly/remotely.
What also remains to be seen is the vibration that 'the camera' actually still generates due to closing down the lens aperture / opening/closing of the leaf shutter, and if repositioning to support the camera below the center of gravity helps.
Cheers,
Bart
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Hey Nick
Ummm does this "walk around" camera have a tripod screw mount on it? Just asking as I have not seen a pic of the bottom of it anywhere.
Hi Brent,
According to the user manual, it has a "Quick coupling tripod plate".
Cheers,
Bart
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Thanks Bart. Due to the well connected NickT's comment of being designed for "walk around" maybe not tripod use, and the lack of the flash sync & remote release plugs (base pro features on every Hasselblad previously made) I thought it prudent to specifically ask Nick.
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Went through numerous hasselblad cable release before realising canons simplest cheapest release did the same thing and never breaks. I use a cable release for 80% so will wait it out. Used a smart phone release too but battery power is an issue. Can't believe this is for real no min jack cable release provision.
Shaun
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Thanks Bart. Due to the well connected NickT's comment of being designed for "walk around" maybe not tripod use, and the lack of the flash sync & remote release plugs (base pro features on every Hasselblad previously made) I thought it prudent to specifically ask Nick.
Quite right you are. I accidentally looked at the wrong User manual though, it's even simpler for the 1XD-50c, a regular tripod screw connection seems to be present, judging from the images.
Cheers,
Bart
P.S. I wonder if the USB connection can be used to trigger the shutter.
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A bit too harsh and generic, but I agree it's an improvement opportunity for those who use the camera on a tripod and/or need to trigger the shutter wirelessly/remotely.
Needless to say, I am only speaking for myself.
No way on earth I'd want to trust shutter release to wifi when the proven cable release is so well implemented in many other cameras with a clear landscape focus.
Doesn't mean I don't find the X1D interesting.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hey Keith
To be fair to Hasselblad I think this was conceived as a "walk around" camera rather than something to be mounted on a tripod. BTW I have asked the question re remotes on your behalf.
Can you please ask them to consider that a cable release could use either the USB plug or the microphone plug? The latter may even be simpler, depending on the design of the mic interface, the presence of plug-in power, etc...
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Hasselblad digital backs such as my H3Dll-39ms have in / out ports (same size plugs as audio in/out) that are used for connecting and communicating with lens & shutter systems on technical cameras. Possibly the audio in/out ports on the 1DX can be used for this by way of a firmware and a menu item.
The present connection allows me to control the Rollei lens/shutters directly from Phocus when tethered. This includes adjusting shutter settings, activating LV, and recording all electronic shutter data to the image metadata. So at present it is not just a basic sync connection.
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A cable release will not stop shutter movement and auto aperture movement. Never has so this camera is no worse and certainly better than most as the shutter is in the lens where there is minimal movement.
On the last page someone made 9 comments on why they are not going to buy the X1D. Don't buy it, please ! it is simple as that. More stock for the rest of us.
Hasselblad digital backs such as my H3Dll-39ms have in / out ports (same size plugs as audio in/out) that are used for connecting and communicating with lens & shutter systems on technical cameras. Possibly the audio in/out ports on the 1DX can be used for this by way of a firmware and a menu item.
The present connection allows me to control the Rollei lens/shutters directly from Phocus when tethered. This includes adjusting shutter settings, activating LV, and recording all electronic shutter data to the image metadata. So at present it is not just a basic sync connection.
How do you do that? I have the H3DII-39 and my understanding is that the Sync In and Sync Out are just 2 wire dry contacts from the PC connector on the lens to fire the back when the shutter fires and fire the flash from the back at the correct time. If there is more data being transferred then how is this done? Do you have a USB connector in the laptop?
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where can I find the owners manual?
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Bob
I run my H3Dll 39ms about 90% of the time on an Arca 6x9. If you have an electronic shutter system such as the Rollei you connect the back to the computer via firewire. There is one cable from the lens controller that goes to the "out" jack on the back and a second cable from the lens controller to the lens.There is a camera setting in the back's menu for "Lens Controller S". All this allows one to fire the entire camera/lens directly from Phocus when tethered and shooting 1 shot or multishot. You can also change the shutter controller/lens settings directly from Phocus. If shooting 1 shot you can fire the entire camera from the lens controller if shooting tethered or to card. This works seamlessly with the Rollei shutter system. I am not sure about Schneider as I think it needs it's own software.
I do not believe Phase & C1 allows control of electronic shutters directly from the tethered software. Schneider shutters require a separate software running alongside.
With mechanical shutters the out jack on the back works as just a sync to fire a lens. Not being electronic there is no data to go to a file.
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But it was probably never meant to be one?
why not? Whey would they make any assumption as to the cameras uses. Why would they design a camera like this simply to be a "walk around camera"?
I've tried the Sony app on my a7rII and it works OK, but fumbling around with the phone to trigger the shot really isn't a great option. I've missed shots because while waiting the phone went to sleep. I've also tried capture pilot on my IQ3 100 and it also works nicely but suffers the same many delay (sometimes because I miss the button). The cable release on the XF is much more reliable.
I also think many types of photography would prefer some type of simple cable release, or at least a reliable infra red or radio release such as studio photographers,
Personally I think it's just an oversight ... some assumptions by the engineering team without talking with enough photographers. Wondering if they have any option to resolve it with a usb type trigger.
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Hey Nick
Ummm does this "walk around" camera have a tripod screw mount on it? Just asking as I have not seen a pic of the bottom of it anywhere.
You didn't see my thread? http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=111540.0
My only stopper was the whole lack of a cable release (and yet, I'm on the wait list). The jacks for audio in/out are 3.5mm, and the Canon release is 2.5mm.
-Joe
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Sorry no I actually did not see your pics ....... or I would not have asked eh.
The jack size is not an issue as in my case there is a mid cable connection to the end cable piece that goes into the back. A $20.00 cable piece connected to the main $100.00 cable piece, that had a habit of failing when there was not a spare available in the country. Now that I have 3 spares in the case it has never failed.
I am one of those that does not believe or trust in wifi / IR / radio triggers. The Sony IR for the A7ll is nice but it has a habit of not firing when you push the button. The delays involved with each of those, especially when doing high speed flash is generally unacceptable. Sometimes old school hardwire sync cables (not even IR or light triggers between packs) are the only way to go. But even when fully wired items like the Pocket Wizzard wake-up cable to put a Blad body into the 1/2 pushed shutter button mode that is required when using laser triggers is the worst piece of failure crap ever. Usually 2 per shoot die at $100.00 + a pop. Argggggg!!!!!
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Sorry no I actually did not see your pics ....... or I would not have asked eh.
The jack size is not an issue as in my case there is a mid cable connection to the end cable piece that goes into the back. A $20.00 cable piece connected to the main $100.00 cable piece, that had a habit of failing when there was not a spare available in the country. Now that I have 3 spares in the case it has never failed.
I am one of those that does not believe or trust in wifi / IR / radio triggers. The Sony IR for the A7ll is nice but it has a habit of not firing when you push the button. The delays involved with each of those, especially when doing high speed flash is generally unacceptable. Sometimes old school hardwire sync cables (not even IR or light triggers between packs) are the only way to go. But even when fully wired items like the Pocket Wizzard wake-up cable to put a Blad body into the 1/2 pushed shutter button mode that is required when using laser triggers is the worst piece of failure crap ever. Usually 2 per shoot die at $100.00 + a pop. Argggggg!!!!!
I've had great luck with my phottix strato transmitters. I can sync all the way up to 1/800th no problem. Only time it has not fired was becuase I did not have it seated on the hotshoe properly. Have a friend who used them on the Fuji x100s and he was able to get to 1/2000th.
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I've had great luck with my phottix strato transmitters. I can sync all the way up to 1/800th no problem. Only time it has not fired was becuase I did not have it seated on the hotshoe properly. Have a friend who used them on the Fuji x100s and he was able to get to 1/2000th.
I may have caused a bit of a misunderstanding in that by "high speed" I was referring to high speed flash with a flash duration in the 1/7000 (t.01) of a second range. I have found that any tiny delay (micro seconds) as part of IR - radio - wifi - sound triggering devices can cause one to miss. Just nature of the beast.
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To clarify my "walk around" comment, I meant that this was how they imagined *most* people would use the camera. Obviously that doesn't mean you can't use it on a tripod or in the studio or in an underwater housing. That's certainly how I intend using it when I get it and will continue to use the H6D in studio.
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I am one of those that does not believe or trust in wifi / IR / radio triggers. The Sony IR for the A7ll is nice but it has a habit of not firing when you push the button. The delays involved with each of those, especially when doing high speed flash is generally unacceptable. Sometimes old school hardwire sync cables (not even IR or light triggers between packs) are the only way to go. But even when fully wired items like the Pocket Wizzard wake-up cable to put a Blad body into the 1/2 pushed shutter button mode that is required when using laser triggers is the worst piece of failure crap ever. Usually 2 per shoot die at $100.00 + a pop. Argggggg!!!!!
I'm with you Brent. I've had good luck with pocket wizards but never leave home without a long sync cable.
IMO
BC
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Sometimes the non pros do not realize that a big part of our job is to cover for every possible eventuality so that there is that wonderful allowance for the serendipity that can give us those amazing visual glimpses that can make for an amazing image.
The difference between "making" an image and taking a photo.
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Sometimes the non pros do not realize that a big part of our job is to cover for every possible eventuality so that there is that wonderful allowance for the serendipity that can give us those amazing visual glimpses that can make for an amazing image.
The difference between "making" an image and taking a photo.
Very Nice work Brent.
BC
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Brent, I love your "About" page. Made me smile; the best I've read for a long time.
Light hearted self deprecation, intermingled with solid facts and all backed up with great photography.
Paul
Thanks Paul. Cannot take credit for that as a dear friend wrote it. It can be surprising how long (20 yrs) someone can hold a grudge over one not so big fish.
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Very Nice work Brent.
BC
Thank you Cooter. I am happy you have not walked away. You were one of the few on here I actually enjoyed. Many of the others are just noise like New Yorkers who just love their car horns.
BD
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Thank You Brent,
I think it's funny (not ha ha, but ironic) that as far as digital has come, it's still complicated, delicate and costly.
Try a line item on an estimate for two $100 cables that burn out per project. That probably won't go over well.
Or line item a day of just DIT prep, of three computers, calibrating monitors, cleaning sensors, charging all of those batteries, testing all of those connectors etc.
That doesn't include the standard prep day(s) of testing cameras, in our case still and motion, all lenses for sharpness, all grip, generators, loading trucks, once again , etc., etc.
I've mentioned this before but when we started shooting digital (many moons ago) and were trying to figure out color spaces, profiles of monitors, cameras, software and printers.
It was about midnight and our studio manager Chris was standing in front of his desk, two pucks around his neck, wires everywhere, two different monitors, printer chugging away for guide prints.
On his desk was 50 to 60 rolls of 120 film we were shipping out and wearily he pointed at the film and said "you know, in a few years we'll look back at that film and say wow I remember the days when each frame only costs a dollar fifty."
I don't have a clue how much we have spent since then, but dozens of computers later, 20 minimum cameras later, I'd probably fall over if I broke it down in a comparable digital to film cost/time investment.
The upside is with digital we can shoot this quickly with practical lights and additional lighting. I even used one of our vehicles for the background rim light.
(http://russellrutherford.com/midnight_dallas.jpg)
I posted this in the motion section, but it's an interesting tale of what it takes for a wonderful film dp, John Seale does on a project like "Fury Road". Years of testing by his predecessor, years of prep by him, just to make the switch to digital.
In stills we don't have the years of prep luxury but it's a great listen.
The video won't embed here, but press the watch button to open another window. It's very interesting.
All the best.
BC
https://vimeo.com/127381179
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Hey Cooter I remember those days when you were starting with digital and were having some crazy problems that you were trying to sort. It seemed never ending. At least things are a bit more stable now.
Now people wonder why you could use the Leica, it being so inferior as stated by some here. Damn after all the technical crap that goes with digital, can it be too much to just shoot with a camera that feels good for you personally?
When I bought my last digital camera (I only own 1) I had a choice between 39mp and 50mp. I tested both and went with the 39mp. Not based on cost, but on the fact that the larger 50mp files were constantly filling up hard drives. A one day bottle & sweat shoot added up to 104gb of files to deliver. That pic you once showed of your hard drive storage room gave me nightmares of my future.
With working photographers there are serious business cost considerations beyond being able to make a better huge print. Just saying.
BD
ps: I used to hide those cable costs under misc studio materials.
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Hey Cooter I remember those days when you were starting with digital and were having some crazy problems that you were trying to sort. It seemed never ending. At least things are a bit more stable now.
Now people wonder why you could use the Leica, it being so inferior as stated by some here. Damn after all the technical crap that goes digital can it be too much to just shoot with a camera that feels good for you personally?
When I bought my last digital camera (I only own 1) I had a choice between 39mp and 50mp. I tested both and went with the 39mp. Not based on cost, but on the fact that the larger 50mp files were constantly filling up hard drives. A one day bottle & sweat shoot added up to 104gb of files to deliver. That pic you once showed of your hard drive storage room gave me nightmares of my future.
With working photographers there are serious business cost considerations beyond being able to make a better huge print. Just saying.
BD
ps: I used to hide those cable costs under misc studio materials.
We're traveling today and I just shipped 50 terabytes of drives from projects that are still in progress. Now some of that is the fact 4k motion from the RED's fill up quickly, then of course preview dailies, prores conversion, still galleries, so it adds up quickly.
Yea, we have a handle on it but it all changes overnight. Just going from Resolve 11 to 12.5 is a new interface and a new day or two to learn the basics again, plus upgrading the computers operating system, it's kind of a non stop thing.
Problems? We'll a lot of that now is just the move we made to motion. Motion is a new world and what looks good through the viewfinder, has to be checked as you go. With stills, two bad frames get tossed, but in a 2 minute take or less, or more, you just can't cut out the bad middle section, so we check, check and check, given the fact we're shooting as we check.
Your right, still cameras are pretty stable now and I use what works for me, or what I like and kind of don't think about it too much.
Still photography post production can quickly fix a lot of issues, but in motion, fixing something like banding in the sky is a different thing.
BC
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Thanks for the link, James; spent a very nice evening watching and wondering. Now I need to find somewhere to watch the movie.
Glad you're back!
;-)
Rob C
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Thanks for the link, James; spent a very nice evening watching and wondering. Now I need to find somewhere to watch the movie.
Glad you're back!
;-)
Rob C
You sure do, definitely one of the best action movies of all time.
I managed to catch it the first day at cinemas and was the only one in the entire room. Having it all for myself AND watching Fury Road of all things was such an amazing experience.
They also talked about the 3D being done all in post, and I tried it once the bluray was out (since I have a 3D TV because it was cheaper than a non 3D at the time). I have to say, this was the first 3D movie that not only didn't make my head spin, but felt like it was also shot in 3D natively. There is really only one scene where you can see it was used as a gimmick, but even then it fits the whole crazy theme perfectly so it doesn't bother me that much. Other than that it has been done really well and I actually prefer watching it that way rather than the 2D version.
I never realized that it has many scenes below 24fps. There are some quick scenes with frame skips to speed up the action and sync up to the music, but I never noticed any visible variation in the framerate. Frankly I really find it hard to not get immersed in the story, even when I try to analyze it.
If Terminator 2 and Die Hard didn't exist, I would say this was the best action movie ever made. But being in the top three is still good enough, right? :P