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Author Topic: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?  (Read 157578 times)

BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #620 on: July 27, 2016, 08:01:46 pm »

A cable release will not stop shutter movement and auto aperture movement. Never has so this camera is no worse and certainly better than most as the shutter is in the lens where there is minimal movement.
On the last page someone made 9 comments on why they are not going to buy the X1D. Don't buy it, please !  it is simple as that. More stock for the rest of us.

Hasselblad digital backs such as my H3Dll-39ms have in / out ports (same size plugs as audio in/out) that are used for connecting and communicating with lens & shutter systems on technical cameras. Possibly the audio in/out ports on the 1DX can be used for this by way of a firmware and a menu item. 

The present connection allows me to control the Rollei lens/shutters directly from Phocus when tethered. This includes adjusting shutter settings, activating LV, and recording all electronic shutter data to the image metadata. So at present it is not just a basic sync connection.
How do you do that? I have the H3DII-39 and my understanding is that the Sync In and Sync Out are just 2 wire dry contacts from the PC connector on the lens to fire the back when the shutter fires and fire the flash from the back at the correct time. If there is more data being transferred then how is this done? Do you have a USB connector in the laptop?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 08:56:56 pm by BobShaw »
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Don Libby

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #621 on: July 27, 2016, 08:39:14 pm »

where can I find the owners manual?

Brent Daniels

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #622 on: July 27, 2016, 09:34:31 pm »

Bob

I run my H3Dll 39ms about 90% of the time on an Arca 6x9. If you have an electronic shutter system such as the Rollei you connect the back to the computer via firewire. There is one cable from the lens controller that goes to the "out" jack on the back and a second cable from the lens controller to the lens.There is a camera setting in the back's menu for "Lens Controller S". All this allows one to fire the entire camera/lens directly from Phocus when tethered and shooting 1 shot or multishot. You can also change the shutter controller/lens settings directly from Phocus. If shooting 1 shot you can fire the entire camera from the lens controller if shooting tethered or to card. This works seamlessly with the Rollei shutter system. I am not sure about Schneider as I think it needs it's own software.


I do not believe Phase & C1 allows control of electronic shutters directly from the tethered software. Schneider shutters require a separate software running alongside.

With mechanical shutters the out jack on the back works as just a sync to fire a lens. Not being electronic there is no data to go to a file.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:01:13 am by Brent Daniels »
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #623 on: July 27, 2016, 11:25:58 pm »



But it was probably never meant to be one?

why not?   Whey would they make any assumption as to the cameras uses.  Why would they design a camera like this simply to be a "walk around camera"? 

I've tried the Sony app on my a7rII and it works OK, but fumbling around with the phone to trigger the shot really isn't a great option. I've missed shots because while waiting the phone went to sleep. I've also tried capture pilot on my IQ3 100 and it also works nicely but suffers the same many delay (sometimes because I miss the button).  The cable release on the XF is much more reliable.

I also think many types of photography would prefer some type of simple cable release, or at least a reliable infra red or radio release such as studio photographers,

Personally I think it's just an oversight ... some assumptions by the engineering team without talking with enough photographers.  Wondering if they have any option to resolve it with a usb type trigger.
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Joe Towner

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #624 on: July 28, 2016, 12:28:53 am »

Hey Nick
Ummm does this "walk around" camera have a tripod screw mount on it? Just asking as I have not seen a pic of the bottom of it anywhere.

You didn't see my thread?  http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=111540.0

My only stopper was the whole lack of a cable release (and yet, I'm on the wait list).  The jacks for audio in/out are 3.5mm, and the Canon release is 2.5mm.

-Joe
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 12:34:43 am by Joe Towner »
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Brent Daniels

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #625 on: July 28, 2016, 01:21:18 am »

Sorry no I actually did not see your pics ....... or I would not have asked eh.

The jack size is not an issue as in my case there is a mid cable connection to the end cable piece that goes into the back. A $20.00 cable piece connected to the main $100.00 cable piece, that had a habit of failing when there was not a spare available in the country. Now that I have 3 spares in the case it has never failed.

I am one of those that does not believe or trust in wifi / IR / radio triggers. The Sony IR for the A7ll is nice but it has a habit of not  firing when you push the button. The delays involved with each of those, especially when doing high speed flash is generally unacceptable. Sometimes old school hardwire sync cables (not even IR or light triggers between packs) are the only way to go. But even when fully wired items like the Pocket Wizzard wake-up cable to put a Blad body into the 1/2 pushed shutter button mode that is required when using laser triggers is the worst piece of failure crap ever. Usually 2 per shoot die at $100.00 + a pop. Argggggg!!!!!
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bpepz

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #626 on: July 28, 2016, 03:46:20 am »

Sorry no I actually did not see your pics ....... or I would not have asked eh.

The jack size is not an issue as in my case there is a mid cable connection to the end cable piece that goes into the back. A $20.00 cable piece connected to the main $100.00 cable piece, that had a habit of failing when there was not a spare available in the country. Now that I have 3 spares in the case it has never failed.

I am one of those that does not believe or trust in wifi / IR / radio triggers. The Sony IR for the A7ll is nice but it has a habit of not  firing when you push the button. The delays involved with each of those, especially when doing high speed flash is generally unacceptable. Sometimes old school hardwire sync cables (not even IR or light triggers between packs) are the only way to go. But even when fully wired items like the Pocket Wizzard wake-up cable to put a Blad body into the 1/2 pushed shutter button mode that is required when using laser triggers is the worst piece of failure crap ever. Usually 2 per shoot die at $100.00 + a pop. Argggggg!!!!!

I've had great luck with my phottix strato transmitters. I can sync all the way up to 1/800th no problem. Only time it has not fired was becuase I did not have it seated on the hotshoe properly. Have a friend who used them on the Fuji x100s and he was able to get to 1/2000th.
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Brent Daniels

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #627 on: July 28, 2016, 01:41:58 pm »

I've had great luck with my phottix strato transmitters. I can sync all the way up to 1/800th no problem. Only time it has not fired was becuase I did not have it seated on the hotshoe properly. Have a friend who used them on the Fuji x100s and he was able to get to 1/2000th.

I may have caused a bit of a misunderstanding in that by "high speed" I was referring to high speed flash with a flash duration in the 1/7000 (t.01) of a second range. I have found that any tiny delay (micro seconds) as part of IR - radio - wifi - sound triggering devices can cause one to miss. Just nature of the beast.
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NickT

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #628 on: July 28, 2016, 05:23:10 pm »

To clarify my "walk around" comment, I meant that this was how they imagined *most* people would use the camera. Obviously that  doesn't mean you can't use it on a tripod or in the studio or in an underwater housing. That's certainly how I intend using it when I get it and will continue to use the H6D in studio.
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bcooter

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #629 on: July 28, 2016, 05:26:15 pm »


I am one of those that does not believe or trust in wifi / IR / radio triggers. The Sony IR for the A7ll is nice but it has a habit of not  firing when you push the button. The delays involved with each of those, especially when doing high speed flash is generally unacceptable. Sometimes old school hardwire sync cables (not even IR or light triggers between packs) are the only way to go. But even when fully wired items like the Pocket Wizzard wake-up cable to put a Blad body into the 1/2 pushed shutter button mode that is required when using laser triggers is the worst piece of failure crap ever. Usually 2 per shoot die at $100.00 + a pop. Argggggg!!!!!

I'm with you Brent.   I've had good luck with pocket wizards but never leave home without a long sync cable.


IMO

BC
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 08:04:22 pm by bcooter »
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Brent Daniels

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #630 on: July 28, 2016, 09:06:03 pm »

Sometimes the non pros do not realize that a big part of our job is to cover for every possible eventuality so that there is that wonderful allowance for the serendipity that can give us those amazing visual glimpses that can make for an amazing image.

The difference between "making" an image and taking a photo.
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bcooter

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #631 on: July 29, 2016, 03:04:28 am »

Sometimes the non pros do not realize that a big part of our job is to cover for every possible eventuality so that there is that wonderful allowance for the serendipity that can give us those amazing visual glimpses that can make for an amazing image.

The difference between "making" an image and taking a photo.


Very Nice work Brent.

BC
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Brent Daniels

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #632 on: July 29, 2016, 10:35:28 am »

Brent, I love your "About" page. Made me smile; the best I've read for a long time.

Light hearted self deprecation, intermingled with solid facts and all backed up with great photography.

Paul

Thanks Paul. Cannot take credit for that as a dear friend wrote it. It can be surprising how long (20 yrs) someone can hold a grudge over one not so big fish.
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Brent Daniels

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #633 on: July 29, 2016, 11:25:28 am »


Very Nice work Brent.

BC

Thank you Cooter. I am happy you have not walked away. You were one of the few on here I actually enjoyed. Many of the others are just noise like New Yorkers who just love their car horns.
BD
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bcooter

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #634 on: July 29, 2016, 01:07:39 pm »

Thank You Brent,

I think it's funny (not ha ha, but ironic) that as far as digital has come, it's still complicated, delicate and costly.

Try a line item on an estimate for two $100 cables that burn out per project.   That probably won't go over well.

Or line item a day of just DIT prep, of three computers, calibrating monitors, cleaning sensors, charging all of those batteries, testing all of those connectors etc.

That doesn't include the standard prep day(s) of testing cameras, in our case still and motion, all lenses for sharpness, all grip, generators,  loading trucks, once again , etc., etc.

I've mentioned this before but when we started shooting digital (many moons ago) and were trying to figure out color spaces, profiles of monitors, cameras, software and printers.

It was about midnight and our studio manager Chris was standing in front of his desk, two pucks around his neck, wires everywhere, two different monitors, printer chugging away for guide prints.

On his desk was 50 to 60 rolls of 120 film we were shipping out and wearily he pointed at the film and said "you know, in a few years we'll look back at that film and say wow I remember the days when each frame only costs a dollar fifty."

I don't have a clue how much we have spent since then, but dozens of computers later, 20 minimum cameras later, I'd probably fall over if I broke it down in a comparable digital to film cost/time investment.

The upside is with digital we can shoot this quickly with practical lights and additional lighting.  I even used one of our vehicles for the background rim light.



I posted this in the motion section, but it's an interesting tale of what it takes for a wonderful film dp, John Seale does on a project like "Fury Road".  Years of testing by his predecessor, years of prep by him, just to make the switch to digital.

In stills we don't have the years of prep luxury but it's a great listen.

The video won't embed here, but press the watch button to open another window.  It's very interesting.

All the best.

BC

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Brent Daniels

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #635 on: July 29, 2016, 01:56:42 pm »

Hey Cooter I remember those days when you were starting with digital and were having some crazy problems that you were trying to sort. It seemed never ending. At least things are a bit more stable now.

Now people wonder why you could use the Leica, it being so inferior as stated by some here. Damn after all the technical crap that goes with digital, can it be too much to just shoot with a camera that feels good for you personally?

When I bought my last digital camera (I only own 1) I had a choice between 39mp and 50mp. I tested both and  went with the 39mp. Not based on cost, but on the fact that the larger 50mp files were constantly filling up hard drives. A one day bottle & sweat shoot added up to 104gb of files to deliver. That pic you once showed of your hard drive storage room gave me nightmares of my future.

With working photographers there are serious business cost considerations beyond being able to make a better huge print. Just saying.

BD

ps: I used to hide those cable costs under misc studio materials. 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 02:52:41 pm by Brent Daniels »
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bcooter

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #636 on: July 29, 2016, 02:05:51 pm »

Hey Cooter I remember those days when you were starting with digital and were having some crazy problems that you were trying to sort. It seemed never ending. At least things are a bit more stable now.

Now people wonder why you could use the Leica, it being so inferior as stated by some here. Damn after all the technical crap that goes digital can it be too much to just shoot with a camera that feels good for you personally?

When I bought my last digital camera (I only own 1) I had a choice between 39mp and 50mp. I tested both and  went with the 39mp. Not based on cost, but on the fact that the larger 50mp files were constantly filling up hard drives. A one day bottle & sweat shoot added up to 104gb of files to deliver. That pic you once showed of your hard drive storage room gave me nightmares of my future.

With working photographers there are serious business cost considerations beyond being able to make a better huge print. Just saying.

BD

ps: I used to hide those cable costs under misc studio materials.

We're traveling today and I just shipped 50 terabytes of drives from projects that are still in progress.   Now some of that is the fact 4k motion from the RED's fill up quickly, then of course preview dailies, prores conversion, still galleries, so it adds up quickly.

Yea, we have a handle on it but it all changes overnight.  Just going from Resolve 11 to 12.5 is a new interface and a new day or two to learn the basics again, plus upgrading the computers operating system, it's kind of a non stop thing.

Problems?  We'll a lot of that now is just the move we made to motion.   Motion is a new world and what looks good through the viewfinder, has to be checked as you go.  With stills, two bad frames get tossed, but in a 2 minute take or less, or more, you just can't cut out the bad middle section, so we check, check and check, given the fact we're shooting as we check.

Your right, still cameras are pretty stable now and I use what works for me, or what I like and kind of don't think about it too much.

Still photography post production can quickly fix a lot of issues, but in motion, fixing something like banding in the sky is a different thing.

BC
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Rob C

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #637 on: July 29, 2016, 05:26:58 pm »

Thanks for the link, James; spent a very nice evening watching and wondering. Now I need to find somewhere to watch the movie.

Glad you're back!

;-)

Rob C

razrblck

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Re: Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?
« Reply #638 on: July 30, 2016, 02:36:51 am »

Thanks for the link, James; spent a very nice evening watching and wondering. Now I need to find somewhere to watch the movie.

Glad you're back!

;-)

Rob C



You sure do, definitely one of the best action movies of all time.

I managed to catch it the first day at cinemas and was the only one in the entire room. Having it all for myself AND watching Fury Road of all things was such an amazing experience.

They also talked about the 3D being done all in post, and I tried it once the bluray was out (since I have a 3D TV because it was cheaper than a non 3D at the time). I have to say, this was the first 3D movie that not only didn't make my head spin, but felt like it was also shot in 3D natively. There is really only one scene where you can see it was used as a gimmick, but even then it fits the whole crazy theme perfectly so it doesn't bother me that much. Other than that it has been done really well and I actually prefer watching it that way rather than the 2D version.

I never realized that it has many scenes below 24fps. There are some quick scenes with frame skips to speed up the action and sync up to the music, but I never noticed any visible variation in the framerate. Frankly I really find it hard to not get immersed in the story, even when I try to analyze it.

If Terminator 2 and Die Hard didn't exist, I would say this was the best action movie ever made. But being in the top three is still good enough, right? :P
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