Hasselblad's "game changer" 22nd of June?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Would be surprised if Fuji's offering was not nearly the same as Hasselblad's. The two companies are long time partners.

The Hasselblad H series were sold under the Fuji name in Japan, the Pan-X was made at Fujinon. The H-lenses are made by Fujinon.

Best regards
Erik

I would guess Fuji is pretty close as well...:
MIRRORLESS MEDIUM FORMAT :: Hasselblad will make the Start… but FUJIFILM’s Counterattack is (Almost) Ready !
http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-mirrorless-medium-format-camera-coming/

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Our friend Doug over at DT says:

"Would have been better if they went with a full frame sensor. Cropped medium format is not *really* medium format. But maybe the rich enthusiasts it’s pointed at won’t know the difference. Most pros will stick with Phase One."

https://www.cinema5d.com/hasselblad-x1d-medium-format-mirrorless-with-video-leak-live-stream/

I always thought Phase One was pretending the IQ3 50 was a medium format camera…

But, Doug has a valid point. What does a Sony 50 MP 44x33 mm sensor bring over an 42 MP Sony 24x36 sensor?

On the other hand, I don't think that the present generation of MFD sensor are the last ones we are seeing from Sony. In a few hours we will know more about the camera than just the basic things. Does it keep the typical MFD treats, like leaf shutter? Does it have EFC focal plane shutter?

Anyway, it seems that Hasselblad has taken a bold step, coming with some really new and useful technology. I guess we are seeing something really similar coming from Fuji pretty soon.

Best regards
Erik

[BernardLanguillier]

"Would have been better if they went with a full frame sensor. Cropped medium format is not *really* medium format. But maybe the rich enthusiasts it’s pointed at won’t know the difference. Most pros will stick with Phase One."

I agree... for now... IMHO, the impact for P1 isn't the direct sales of the X1D, it is the positioning of Hassy as a company selling to a broader audience, and therefore potentially able to change the game in the MF arena in terms of lowering their prices accross the board. They have already clearly started this with the H5D50c/CFV-50 but could continue the trend to higher end model if they are successful with the X1D. They are changing their business model.

This is a real threat for P1, although I don't expect them to admit it.

However good C1 Pro is, it wouldn't convince many people to pay twice as much for the same 100mp chip.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Christopher]

I agree... for now... IMHO, the impact for P1 isn't the direct sales of the X1D, it is the positioning of Hassy as a company selling to a broader audience, and therefore potentially able to change the game in the MF arena in terms of lowering their prices accross the board. They have already clearly started this with the H5D50c/CFV-50 but could continue the trend to higher end model if they are successful with the X1D. They are changing their business model.

This is a real threat for P1, although I don't expect them to admit it.

However good C1 Pro is, it wouldn't convince many people to pay twice as much for the same 100mp chip.

Cheers,
Bernard

All true, I hope Dougs comment made while half a sleep, because I feel as a Phase One user embarrassing. But enough about that.

MF Full Framer would have been great, but perhaps it really would get to big both in size and price. I think they would have charged around 16k for such a FF camera, which for us would have been great, for their main target market to much.

Now let's wait for all the facts. As most it sounds like a modified 50MP sensor for AF, as I would say its not a new sensor. This makes it a lot cheaper than let's say a 125MP version of the same sensor, which should be there in 1-2 years. At least this would calculate up from their very soon to come 75MP 36mm sensor

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It may be that Hasselblad positions mirrorless MFD at 44x33 mm and optimises the system around that size. I wouldn't be to much surprised to see a say a 70 or 125 MP 44x33 mm sensor from Sony, the former is the A7rII scaled up and the second would be the rumoured 75 MP sensor scaled up to 44x33. But it seems that Sony doesn't really scale between different sensor sizes. They are different designs.

I would be interested know if the new Hasselblad can be mounted on the Actus from Cambo or on the Arca Universalis.

Best regards
Erik

All true, I hope Dougs comment made while half a sleep, because I feel as a Phase One user embarrassing. But enough about that.

MF Full Framer would have been great, but perhaps it really would get to big both in size and price. I think they would have charged around 16k for such a FF camera, which for us would have been great, for their main target market to much.

Now let's wait for all the facts. As most it sounds like a modified 50MP sensor for AF, as I would say its not a new sensor. This makes it a lot cheaper than let's say a 125MP version of the same sensor, which should be there in 1-2 years. At least this would calculate up from their very soon to come 75MP 36mm sensor

[synn]

I can't think of a reason why it won't work on an actus or universalis.
In fact, I think it would be quite great on those platforms.

[NickT]

Our friend Doug over at DT says:

"Would have been better if they went with a full frame sensor. Cropped medium format is not *really* medium format. But maybe the rich enthusiasts it’s pointed at won’t know the difference. Most pros will stick with Phase One."

https://www.cinema5d.com/hasselblad-x1d-medium-format-mirrorless-with-video-leak-live-stream/

I always thought Phase One was pretending the IQ3 50 was a medium format camera…

Erik

I think Phase one make great cameras. I know a bunch of people who work there and they are all talented and passionate. I happen to be a (passionate) Hasselblad user but that doesn't mean I feel I have to denigrate other brands. Research and buy what works for you or your business.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Yes, I think Phase One makes great cameras. But what I see is that one of their salespeople claiming that 44x33mm is no real medium format. That would apply to the IQ3 50, too, wouldn't you say?!

Best regards
Erik

I think Phase one make great cameras. I know a bunch of people who work there and they are all talented and passionate. I happen to be a (passionate) Hasselblad user but that doesn't mean I feel I have to denigrate other brands. Research and buy what works for you or your business.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Synn,

My consideration may be flange distance and possibly lack of focal plane shutter. If there is no focal plane shutter, it may be useful with large format lenses but say V-series lenses may be less practical.

Best regards
Erik

I can't think of a reason why it won't work on an actus or universalis.
In fact, I think it would be quite great on those platforms.

[torger]

or they can get reasonable and just supply Adobe with all the necessary info to handle their raws properly in ACR/LR... Fuji does supply Adobe with SDK for example... if they can't invest as much as P1 in C1 then it is time to call it quits on some fronts... even Nikon licensed GUI from ISL (SilkyPix) to save time & effort on basic stuff

They've already done that for a long time, I know that straight from the source as when I asked for format spec they said they only share it with Adobe. Problem is that color pipeline in Phocus works very differently from the pipeline color in Adobe. Phocus has an own proprietary color profile format (in addition to ICC for user-provided stuff). Their native profiles are if I remember correctly some quadruple-illuminant stuff, pretty advanced stuff. That is even though Adobe can decode the files, they can't fully mirror the color. Oh well, if they tried hard they could probably come pretty close but it doesn't seem that they do. I haven't tested any Hassy camera in LR recently though so I don't know what the status is.

[torger]

Real medium format starts at 6x6cm . Doug is pretty famous for Hasselblad bashing, so I'm not surprised by his comment. But of course it's a 44x33mm sensor, I don't think a reasonable price that would allow a volume model would be possible with the 54x41mm sensor at this time. But sure I hope that the mount is not limited to 44x33 (which I initially thought it was, but now I'm not as sure).

Price is the most important part of the game changing bit, making Hasselblad cameras accessible to more people and not only working professionals.

If we're going Hassy/Phase like Nikon/Canon I could say that in the mirrorless range Phase One has the A system, which to me is a pure luxury product, with embarrassingly poor lens-sensor compatibility

Phase One's strongest point against Hasselblad these days is Capture One. But Phocus is getting better...

[torger]

So the X1D is now priced a $8,995, the H5D-50c at $14,500 and the H6D-50c at $25,995.

Does that make sense if it is all one and the same sensor?

Yes. Medium format is not priced as mass market products. Low volume means high price. Old models are sold out to lower price. It's not only the sensor you pay for, but also the actual feature set. I doubt the mirrorless has true focus for example.

[NickT]

It's not only the sensor you pay for, but also the actual feature set. I doubt the mirrorless has true focus for example.

Exactly.

[synn]

Hi Synn,

My consideration may be flange distance and possibly lack of focal plane shutter. If there is no focal plane shutter, it may be useful with large format lenses but say V-series lenses may be less practical.

Best regards
Erik

Good point, but I suspect it has a focal plane shutter.

[NickT]

Anyone notice how civilised is in here without Theo?

[synn]

Anyone notice how civilised is in here without Theo?

shhh.. don't say its name out loud. Say it three times and it will reappear.

[BernardLanguillier]

shhh.. don't say its name out loud. Say it three times and it will reappear.

I think he must be accumulating sleep somewhere to release the energy continuously for 2 days in a row after the announcement.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Exactly.

I understand that True focus is just an example of absent feature explaining the pricing point difference, but True focus may not be needed either if focus can be acquired directly from the sensor away from the center.

One feature replaced by another with near zero manufacturing cost.

Win-win deal!

Cheers,
Bernard

[NickT]

I think there will be a bunch of different features between the two systems. For example I currently shoot a 40MP medium format in studio and a 36MP dslr on location. Different tools for different jobs.

[synn]

I can see myself in the market for this in some months from now, when proper adapters for Mamiya lenses appear.
 Perhaps even look at an Actus to accompany it. I have a Schneider 47XL sitting in the cabinet doing nothing which could see some action with that combo.