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Author Topic: Leica SL  (Read 19726 times)

geesbert

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Leica SL
« on: October 20, 2015, 03:51:10 pm »

Have you seen the new SL? What an ugly camera! I can't believe it. Looks like a cardboard parody of a 60ties russian camera. The Lada of cameras. I wish Leica all the best, they make terrific cameras which i happily buy for years now, but this one?
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Hywel

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2015, 04:12:59 pm »

Holy good gravy, that looks AWFUL.

Not only cosmetically, but I'm getting very tired of all this minimalist "control dials and a few flat buttons" nonsense. I shoot with the camera to my eye, and I want to be able to control it while it is up there, by touch.

I'll just about bear with the A7RII's hideous menu system because it has customisable buttons (though it is hard to figure which is which with the camera to your eye).

Horrid though the buttons are, 42 megapixels and 5 axis IBIS and electronic first curtain shutter and PDAF and face/eye focus that actually works leads to one indulging, if not forgiving, it's ergonomic sins.

Leica though? I just don't see that they have an excuse. They've been making cameras forever. Plus they are partners with Panasonic, who are capable of putting together the eminently pleasant-to-use GH4 with proper physical controls and details like "nipples" on the central of the three top buttons so you can tell which is which even with gloves on.

I don't think anyone will be doing that with the new Leica.

Leica lenses may be stellar, but have you tried the Sony Zeiss 55/1.8? No lens, however stunning, is going to reproduce detail on a 24 Megapixel sensor the way the Sony does on a 42 megapixel sensor. And is that ANOTHER new lens mount for Leica?

In fact I'm not entirely convinced that the new Leica is actually intended to take photographs with. It appears to be more in the spirit of Hasselblad Lunar hideousness. For that sort of money I just don't see who will buy this instead of a Sony, CaNikon for sports, or MF for detail and colour. Really, if you love Leica, why not head for the full-blown S series instead and get decent resolution to go with those beautiful lenses? How much does a second had Leica S cost these days? You can certainly get a Pentax 645Z for the cost of this Leica and a lens. (If I didn't already have MF kit I would certainly consider the Pentax).

I guess they know their market. And their market isn't me.

Cheers, Hywel





« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 05:03:17 pm by Hywel »
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uaiomex

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2015, 04:30:34 pm »

Why is this camera featured in the Compact System Camera forum? However, I thank dear Leica for the nice preview of what a future mirrorless medium format camera from Sony would look. Dimensions, weight and priced accordingly.

Now seriously. Other than been unexpectedly big, the design is hard to swallow. I bet in time more than one will acquire the taste, probably me included.
This new mirrorless camera and its whole incipient system is missing one very important thing: A bigger physical sensor or at least 20 more mp's.

I salute Leica for the effort, the guts and their faith for contemporary photography, which more and more becomes uncharted territory.
Eduardo
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 04:32:24 pm by uaiomex »
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SZRitter

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2015, 04:40:12 pm »

Why is this camera featured in the Compact System Camera forum? However, I thank dear Leica for the nice preview of what a future mirrorless medium format camera from Sony would look. Dimensions, weight and priced accordingly.

My understanding is that the "Compact System Cameras" was where all "Mirrorless" conversations were to be placed. Mind you, at the time the forum category was created, I'm pretty sure none of the Sony A7 gear was public knowledge. That said, my understanding is the SL is a 35mm sensor, right?
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Hywel

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 04:46:05 pm »

Most telling sentence from DPReview's hands-on:

"It took several DPR staffers to finally figure out how to change exposure modes."

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7448206943/a-lot-to-leica-hands-on-with-the-leica-sl-typ-601?slide=4

No, Leica. Seven thousand five hundred times no.

Jeez. When is one of these companies actually going to do a proper survey of working professional photographers to figure out what ergonomics a 21st Century camera should have? I know we all have different needs, but it astonishes me how we still don't have routine access to ETTR auto-modes, proper raw histograms,  etc..

Michael and many others have been telling them what they should do for YEARS now.

So this Leica has a decent res EVF with acceptable refresh rate now, which is good. But one step forwards and about ten back.

Cheers, Hywel

« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 04:57:25 pm by Hywel »
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hasselbladfan

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2015, 05:00:32 pm »

Have you seen the new SL? What an ugly camera! I can't believe it.

Why do all new cameras look so bad? Stop giving design work to design nerds. Look at the Sigma DP2 Quattro ! The A7R II will not win a contest neither.

Time to hire some Italian designers.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2015, 05:11:30 pm »

One thing that must be said though is that this camera further emphazises the strategic mistakes done by Canon and Nikon in terms of product planning.

No, the SL isn't a credible competitor anywhere but in the chinese traders' microcosm as Lamborghini accessories, but it still is the first stepping stone of a FF mirrorless system with interesting technological components (at least the EVF and AF). Where they messed up, even thinking SL, is their lenses roadmap which appears to be extremely slow.

Of course must question the packaging and price point, but they probably make sense for the target buyers. Photographers will continue to buy a7II/D750's and work on their mortgage pay back... for now.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 05:32:22 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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robdickinson

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2015, 05:34:06 pm »

You think this will have any impact on the market or canon/nikon?

its an utter irrelevance.

looks like a practical joke next to the sony lineup.
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jjj

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2015, 05:35:39 pm »

Why is this camera featured in the Compact System Camera forum?
Indeed.
This shot looks like some weird photoshopping has been done re size.
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jjj

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2015, 05:36:48 pm »

You think this will have any impact on the market or canon/nikon?

its an utter irrelevance.

looks like a practical joke next to the sony lineup.
Leica are not exactly after the same market as those other brands.
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robdickinson

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2015, 05:44:20 pm »

I'm not sure what market there is for a mirrorless system with a 24-90f4 zoom that is bigger than a 2.8 zoom and SLR?

Leica will of course sell some of these to people with more money than sense and an obsession with the red dot.

Even those will have some trouble figuring out this weeks mount naming policy.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2015, 06:00:08 pm »

You think this will have any impact on the market or canon/nikon?

No, but Canon and Nikon somehow let Leica Tesla them, which is a clear strategic mistake. They are turning into technological followers overall, even if the sensors used in Nikon bodies are still at least one generation ahead.

It could be argued that the Nikon J1/V1 was ahead of its time and shares the exact same design philosophy as recent Leica (and it preceeded them), so the blame may be even stronger for Canon.

Cheers,
Bernars
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 08:07:21 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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eronald

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2015, 06:42:36 pm »

A mirrorless S with more compact lenses would make sense.

This is thing a misfire. I am sure Leica will get it right in due course, but neither the T nor this new SL are the right design.

Sony has got hi-rezh ybrid mirrorless and video down pat by now; they did the work and deserve the sales. Olympus Panasonic and Fuji have also paid their dues and are getting traction because they have standout features, eg. the very good internal video of the GH4 and the nice ergonomics of the OM series.

In the past there have been a lot of remarks about Japanese copying, but in the move to mirrorless we've been treated to an innovation slugfest, and the old heavies are getting spilled out of the competition.

Edmund

No, but Canon and Nikon somehow let Leica Tesla them, which is a clear strategic mistake. They are turning into technological followers.

It could be argued that the Nikon J1/V1 was ahead of its time and shares the exact same design philosophy as recent Leica (and it preceeded them), so the blame may be even stronger for Canon.

Cheers,
Bernars
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 07:54:37 pm by eronald »
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Manoli

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2015, 08:26:59 pm »

A mirrorless S with more compact lenses would make sense.

Once I'd got over my WTF moment, my first thought was of Richard Young ( the original pap) – how he would have loved this cam!

Thinking it over and glancing through the first reports, perhaps Leica aren't quite as dumb as a majority here seems to think.  They're the first, and so far only one, to have brought a fully interoperable AF mirrorless to market capable of using their whole range of lenses – 145 of them: including 48 M's, 51 R's, 16 S's and even their C- range cine lenses (21).  For anyone with Leica glass,  particularly the S & M crowd (unintentional pun) It's the long awaited mirrorless body, in the same vein as the S. No more doubling up on lenses or cobbling a makeshift amalgam of other makes – assuming you 'like' or own Leica glass. It's even probable that you'll be able to use MF Contax and Hassy glass too – although piggy backing adapters probably wasn't uppermost in the design team's thoughts at inception.

For those who are hovering over a move to MF -  for the price of a PhaseOne XF IQ140 kit, you could buy a Leica S(006) with 70mm Summarit AND an SL,  all interoperable – and still have change left over.  Probably the same with an IQ 250/350 vs S(007) comparison – I haven't done the maths yet. You own legacy Leica glass – even more appealing.

The only question mark, IMO, would be Leica's ability/intention to move to a a larger MF sensor in the future. And regarding the €6,000 / $7,500 body only price – well it's about the price of a new M / M-P, so take your pick.

It's not a cam with the appeal of the Sony A7xx series, nor the same price point, but as part of a 'complete' MF system, it has it's merits. I'd reserve any judgement until we get a clearer idea of the IQ.

I won't be buying it, but I give them kudos for having the guts to take on the heavyweights.
I wish them well.

-

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Manoli

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2015, 08:32:17 pm »

One thing that must be said though is that this camera further emphazises the strategic mistakes done by Canon and Nikon in terms of product planning.

Yup.

No, the SL isn't a credible competitor anywhere but in the chinese traders' microcosm as Lamborghini accessories ..  Where they messed up, even thinking SL, is their lenses roadmap which appears to be extremely slow.

Don't think so (see above), but time will tell.

-
Edit:
BTW, Bernard, it's got twin card slots !

Best,
M

« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 08:38:20 pm by Manoli »
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eronald

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2015, 08:41:30 pm »

We don't think they're dumb; we just feel that a 40MP Sony crapocam is probably more useful in *our* ever so trembling and impoverished paws.

Edmund
 

Once I'd got over my WTF moment, my first thought was of Richard Young ( the original pap) – how he would have loved this cam!

Thinking it over and glancing through the first reports, perhaps Leica aren't quite as dumb as a majority here seems to think.  They're the first, and so far only one, to have brought a fully interoperable AF mirrorless to market capable of using their whole range of lenses – 145 of them: including 48 M's, 51 R's, 16 S's and even their C- range cine lenses (21).  For anyone with Leica glass,  particularly the S & M crowd (unintentional pun) It's the long awaited mirrorless body, in the same vein as the S. No more doubling up on lenses or cobbling a makeshift amalgam of other makes – assuming you 'like' or own Leica glass. It's even probable that you'll be able to use MF Contax and Hassy glass too – although piggy backing adapters probably wasn't uppermost in the design team's thoughts at inception.

For those who are hovering over a move to MF -  for the price of a PhaseOne XF IQ140 kit, you could buy a Leica S(006) with 70mm Summarit AND an SL,  all interoperable – and still have change left over.  Probably the same with an IQ 250/350 vs S(007) comparison – I haven't done the maths yet. You own legacy Leica glass – even more appealing.

The only question mark, IMO, would be Leica's ability/intention to move to a a larger MF sensor in the future. And regarding the €6,000 / $7,500 body only price – well it's about the price of a new M / M-P, so take your pick.

It's not a cam with the appeal of the Sony A7xx series, nor the same price point, but as part of a 'complete' MF system, it has it's merits. I'd reserve any judgement until we get a clearer idea of the IQ.

I won't be buying it, but I give them kudos for having the guts to take on the heavyweights.
I wish them well.

-


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JV

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2015, 08:50:46 pm »

Good move from Leica and IMO one that will prove to be successful over time.

If the 50mm Summilux is of the same quality (or better) as its M equivalent they have got a winner!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2015, 09:02:52 pm »

Don't think so (see above), but time will tell.

The ability to mount existing lenses is nice, no doubt. But really, the value of mounting S lenses on the SL is questionable at best. As far as M lenses go, this could be more interesting, but we need to see how well they work with their sensor. Besides, I am not super convinced that this large camera is the best body to mount M lenses on. My Sony a5100 seems like a better match.

Now my comment was more about the roadmap for native AF SL lenses.

BTW, Bernard, it's got twin card slots !

Yep, saw that, no need to jump up an down though, everybody does that except Sony. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 09:06:57 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2015, 09:07:57 pm »

Good move from Leica and IMO one that will prove to be successful over time.

If the 50mm Summilux is of the same quality (or better) as its M equivalent they have got a winner!

We'll find out beginning of 2017...

By that time Sony will have released the a7RIII.

Cheers,
Bernard

JV

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2015, 09:16:30 pm »

We'll find out beginning of 2017...

By that time Sony will have released the a7RIII.

Cheers,
Bernard

I am guessing probably the a7RIV already...

As an owner of R lenses do you believe this camera could appeal to people with a lot of R glass?
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