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Author Topic: Leica SL  (Read 19725 times)

Manoli

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2015, 09:17:47 pm »

We don't think they're dumb; we just feel that a 40MP Sony crapocam is probably more useful in *our* ever so trembling and impoverished paws.

Edmund,

I was one of the first adapters of the 'crapocam', replete with shutter niceties, since it's initial introduction. I still am and 'our' impoverished paws are probably still best served by its second incarnation, even more so as Sony thankfully deprived us of the joys of the original's shutter shake, rattle & roll.

But as part of a larger (MF) system as opposed to purely a standalone mirrorless, Leica may be on the right track.  Access to Leica legacy glass changes the price dynamics considerably and if the wide angle woes have been overcome – the appeal will be even greater and the TCO considerably less.

All best,
M
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eronald

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2015, 09:19:46 pm »

We'll find out beginning of 2017...

By that time Sony will have released the a7RIII.

Cheers,
Bernard

Sony have a good AF 50 cheapie in their range.

If I were to use a Leica it would be the S - get an S used and you have a decent piece of gear.

Edmund
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David Anderson

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2015, 09:22:16 pm »

That is the ugliest camera I have ever seen.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2015, 09:26:21 pm »

I am guessing probably the a7RIV already...

As an owner of R lenses do you believe this camera could appeal to people with a lot of R glass?

Yes, perhaps. Those who have not yet converted them to another mount I guess?

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2015, 09:27:09 pm »

Edmund,

I was one of the first adapters of the 'crapocam', replete with shutter niceties, since it's initial introduction. I still am and 'our' impoverished paws are probably still best served by its second incarnation, even more so as Sony thankfully deprived us of the joys of the original's shutter shake, rattle & roll.

But as part of a larger (MF) system as opposed to purely a standalone mirrorless, Leica may be on the right track.  Access to Leica legacy glass changes the price dynamics considerably and if the wide angle woes have been overcome – the appeal will be even greater and the TCO considerably less.

All best,
M

Manoli,

I believe that a mirrorless S could crop any lens under the sun, and would knock the ball out of the park. But a huge 20MP 35mm camera? For people who bought M glass to have something small and tidy?

Apart from that, if all you want is 20MP, any used camera on the market can give it to you - my Canon 1Ds3 & 85 1.2 combo is now "worth" less than $1500 on the used market, just to put things in perspective, the dealer won't even part-exchange it for a crapocam, and its only real issue is the dreadful weight. .

Edmund
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eronald

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2015, 09:28:45 pm »

Yes, perhaps. Those who have not yet converted them to another mount I guess?

Cheers,
Bernard

R glass will work fine on the Sony crapocam ...not only on the Leica luxocam.

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2015, 09:32:33 pm »

Sony have a good AF 50 cheapie in their range.

If I were to use a Leica it would be the S - get an S used and you have a decent piece of gear.

Agreed on both accounts.

The S lenses are very appealing, the S body less so to me, but I could see myself using one. Anyway, it really depends on the target applications, the shutter lenses obviously shine for outdoor flash but I don't do much of that. And even if that were to change, I would probably go the phase route I guess. They should have something real nice once (if ?) the 36x48mm CMOS 100mp~ chips become available. Something that wouldn't have to be replaced for many many years to come.

Cheers,
Bernard

Manoli

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2015, 09:50:18 pm »

Apart from that, if all you want is 20MP, any used camera on the market can give it to you - my Canon 1Ds3 & 85 1.2 combo is now "worth" less than $1500 on the used market ...

Edmund,

I've sent you a PM.
M
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Telecaster

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2015, 09:52:52 pm »

But a huge 20MP 35mm camera?

24mp.

A reminder, again, that Leica trades in the luxury goods market. The needs & desires of more practical-minded folk aren't of much concern, nor do they need to be (for now anyway).

-Dave-
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JV

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2015, 10:02:04 pm »

Purely judging by the hostile reactions of Sony shooters Leica must have done something right...
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2015, 03:53:13 am »

What I find interesting is that people refer to a 3000 USD+ camera as a "crapocam"... So 3000 USD seems to be the new "cheap" and affordable price tier...

As for the new Leica, well, it costs a lot, its controversy worthy, so what is new really?

And it is not a new mount, as someone said, it is T mount.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2015, 04:40:51 am »

What I find interesting is that people refer to a 3000 USD+ camera as a "crapocam"... So 3000 USD seems to be the new "cheap" and affordable price tier...

Edmund is in fact a Chinese trader from HK pretending to be a unioned French worker. 3,000 US$ is the average price of the wine glass he drinks at lunch on week days.

Cheers,
Bernard

David Anderson

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2015, 04:45:53 am »

So 3000 USD seems to be the new "cheap" and affordable price tier...


3000 US is a significant price drop from what the pro Nikon & Canon bodies cost not long ago.
I think the D810 / 5DIII / Sony A7rII are pretty good value given the image quality.


Without knowing how talented it is yet, the New Leica seems expensive for a 24mp FF IMHO.
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scooby70

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2015, 07:01:07 am »

R glass will work fine on the Sony crapocam ...not only on the Leica luxocam.

Edmund

I find it really disappointing to see comments like this. For whatever reason I expect better on this site.

I do have an interest as the A7 plus the 35mm f2.8, 55mm f1.8 and my manual lenses is the best camera I've ever owned for my needs but even so, bad form eronald, IMVHO.
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telyt

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2015, 09:53:39 am »

R glass will work fine on the Sony crapocam ...not only on the Leica luxocam.

I agree, bad form.  The Sony a7-series cameras have left lots of room for improvement but I would not characterize it as a crapocam, not even facetiously, likewise I'd avoid a sound-bite-worthy luxocam label just because it's not the right camera for me.

Regarding R lenses on the a7-series: what I'd like to see is a smaller first viewfinder magnification step, a shutter that is as quiet and responsive as it is with EFC at speeds faster than 1/1000 sec where EFC fails (or a better way of switching EFC on or off other than menu-diving), and an adapter that operates the auto-diaphragm of the lens.
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Hulyss

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2015, 12:59:32 pm »

I think it is one of the best Leïca camera to date, no compromise. It is extremely solid and weather sealed, the EVF seems finally reasonably big / bright and adjustable (on/off sensitivity), the video part is perfect and solid for most applications, 24 well resolved millions pixels @ 11 fps if needed... seems perfect by today standards, even for big printing, the lenses are big and expensive but one would expect very good IQ across the range.

Next year will be about the prime range, expect a 24/35 and 85 f1.4 by the end of 2017 so it will be pretty cool.

It ain't a camera for ppl who like to "upgrade" every 3 month and rent their cars. It is for ppl who like to OWN a good piece of durable gear and are not too sensitive to the marketing. Such a solid camera can be a long term investment (more than 5 years) as the D700 was (and still is, It's my main gear).

The price might drop with time, like S and S2 price dropped with time.

A correct review of Ming : http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/10/21/premiere-review-2015-leica-sl-601/
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 01:11:45 pm by Hulyss »
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2015, 02:38:25 pm »

I think it is one of the best Leïca camera to date, no compromise. It is extremely solid and weather sealed, the EVF seems finally reasonably big / bright and adjustable (on/off sensitivity), the video part is perfect and solid for most applications, 24 well resolved millions pixels @ 11 fps if needed... seems perfect by today standards, even for big printing, the lenses are big and expensive but one would expect very good IQ across the range.

Next year will be about the prime range, expect a 24/35 and 85 f1.4 by the end of 2017 so it will be pretty cool.

It ain't a camera for ppl who like to "upgrade" every 3 month and rent their cars. It is for ppl who like to OWN a good piece of durable gear and are not too sensitive to the marketing. Such a solid camera can be a long term investment (more than 5 years) as the D700 was (and still is, It's my main gear).

The price might drop with time, like S and S2 price dropped with time.

A correct review of Ming : http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/10/21/premiere-review-2015-leica-sl-601/

 :)

I also like this comment:

"Ming Thein says:   
October 21, 2015 at 12:54 PM

Compared to the A7RII, it focuses faster, shoots faster, turns on faster, reviews faster, writes faster, has (mostly) better UI and controls, better sealing, MUCH better battery life. I agree none of these things should increase the cost by 2x, but people who think the A7RII is God are deluded. I bought one with my own money and have been shooting it for the last three months: it still feels like a beta exercise."


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BJL

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2015, 02:59:33 pm »

« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 03:09:47 pm by BJL »
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eronald

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2015, 03:06:52 pm »

I agree, bad form.  The Sony a7-series cameras have left lots of room for improvement but I would not characterize it as a crapocam, not even facetiously, likewise I'd avoid a sound-bite-worthy luxocam label just because it's not the right camera for me.

You know, I think  you're right. I'll call the A7RII the wondercam from now on, as everyone here seems to agree that Sony has done a nice job. Of note, the fact that the A72 sells at less than E2K in Europe, so the wondercam is also doing wonders for Sony's bottom line :)

As far as the Leica is concerned, I'll change my Luxocam labelling when the first forum buyers defend it wit firsthand knowledge ...

Edmund
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 03:49:40 pm by eronald »
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Hulyss

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Re: Leica SL
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2015, 03:07:46 pm »


"Ming Thein says:   
October 21, 2015 at 12:54 PM

Compared to the A7RII, it focuses faster, shoots faster, turns on faster, reviews faster, writes faster, has (mostly) better UI and controls, better sealing, MUCH better battery life. I agree none of these things should increase the cost by 2x, but people who think the A7RII is God are deluded. I bought one with my own money and have been shooting it for the last three months: it still feels like a beta exercise."


It feels like a beta exercise since day one of the Nex series. PPl who use those camera and say "ho !! ha!! this is the best !! ho!! ha!!" just crack me up. Those ppl never used a Nikon D700/800/3/3s/4/4s (or canon counterparts) . Just because of the UI, the whole mirror-less Sony venture stay and will stay a joke compared to a pro Nikon menu and ergonomic. Some ppl cry out loud when someone say those Sony gear are "toys" but hey !! They are toys, expensive toys, who feel and act like toys, with miserable user experience.

When you see supposedly very good and respected photographers endorsing and saying that Sony is the pinnacle in photography ... I just want to go AFK walking and forgetting.

For me, the more the fact of "taking a photography" is easy, the less is the pleasure of photography. Ofc there is a threshold but I do not know yet any ppl who get personal satisfaction / achievement out of easy work.

The ones who stand straight in their boots saying me the contrary are just a bunch of lazy potatoes or weak jerky hipsters.

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When a pro become a fashion victim, it ain't a pro anymore.   H.Bowman
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 03:12:38 pm by Hulyss »
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