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Author Topic: Religious Freedom Act  (Read 113231 times)

Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #280 on: April 03, 2015, 12:19:28 pm »

if it is illegal - then I want legal protection for it to be legal... if it continues to be illegal it is also OK for as long as it is illegal for all, including nazis
no, I am a business owner in your situations, not a customer... so I want the law to allow me single out... somebody might single out gays, digitaldog will single out nazis, etc... and then market will put things right

Sorry, but I don't get it.

You say you don't want the state to tell you who you can single out and who you cannot single out.
But this law allows you to single out just gays but not afroamerican or women or jews.

So is this law a good law or a bad law?
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #281 on: April 03, 2015, 12:20:53 pm »

Is it legal to refuse a customer because he is black?
if legal scholars say that it is legal now with the law in place then I am fine with that (look, I have no issues with you trying to put me in a position where I am looking pro nazi or anti gay - I really do not care... what I care is that gays do not have more rights __or__ obligations vs nazis __and__ vice versa), but I want to be sure that the law also allows the same treatment for nazis (to be singled out) for those business owners who do not like nazis (or whites or asians or you name it)  ;D ...
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #282 on: April 03, 2015, 12:22:40 pm »

if legal scholars say that it is legal [to refuse a customer because he is black] now with the law in place then I am fine with that .

What if the legal scholars say it's illegal?
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #283 on: April 03, 2015, 12:22:49 pm »

You say you don't want the state to tell you who you can single out and who you cannot single out.

yes

But this law allows you to single out just gays but not afroamerican or women or jews.
__or__ nazis or men or arabs
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #284 on: April 03, 2015, 12:23:09 pm »

What if the legal scholars say it's illegal?
then I am fine if the same goes for nazis
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #285 on: April 03, 2015, 12:24:49 pm »

then I am fine if the same goes for nazis
So here you're contradicting youself because now you're ok for the state to tell you who you can or cannot discriminate against.
Is this correct?
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #286 on: April 03, 2015, 12:25:43 pm »

Because the terror campaigns from which business owners needed protection of the law have started only recently.
btw things has to go both ways... if customers have right to punish private business owners (and I believe that they shall be able to) then private business owners shall have the legal right (or legal protection) to punish customers too (goes both ways)...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #287 on: April 03, 2015, 12:28:22 pm »

The rabid calls for lethal action by some here still fall into the free-speech domain in the U.S. (legally that is... colloquially though, they are more in the idiot's blabbering domain).

However, his ideological brethren are already taking the call for ams to the next, criminal level. A high-school teacher in Indiana asked her Twitter followers to follow her to BURN DOWN a pizzeria that expressed an opinion about the law in a TV interview. The pizzeria was initially forced to close and the owners went into hiding after death threats. The teacher got suspended and the police recommended criminal charges of harassment, intimidation and threats. Oh, yes... the pizzeria in the meantime got $400,000 donations as of Thursday.

AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #288 on: April 03, 2015, 12:29:00 pm »

So here you're contradicting youself because now you're ok for the state to tell you who you can or cannot discriminate against.
Is this correct?


no, I am saying that I want (to be able to single out gays or nazis), but if I am not getting what I want then I am OK to obey the law that does not allow to single out, but then I want the that law to be equal for gays and for nazis - so that if you can't single out gays then you can't single out nazis
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #289 on: April 03, 2015, 12:35:21 pm »

In general a large percentage of people will behave badly if such behavior is given the social seal of approval.
the issue is that you usurp the right do decide what is "behave badly" - why do you think you opinion about that is more valuable than mine ? now we can take this to a vote... or vote is OK only when it suits you ?
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #290 on: April 03, 2015, 12:38:24 pm »

A high-school teacher
teachers and federal employees and some others are totally out of sync with the realities... they have too much protections and too much sense of entitlement...
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #291 on: April 03, 2015, 01:54:50 pm »

no, I am saying that I want (to be able to single out gays or nazis), but if I am not getting what I want then I am OK to obey the law that does not allow to single out, but then I want the that law to be equal for gays and for nazis - so that if you can't single out gays then you can't single out nazis

So you're saying that the Indiana law is ok because, even if it singles out gay but not women or afroamerican (just two examples), it allows you to single out some of the people you don't like.
Did I understand correctly?

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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #292 on: April 03, 2015, 03:40:38 pm »

So you're saying that the Indiana law is ok because, even if it singles out gay but not women or afroamerican (just two examples), it allows you to single out some of the people you don't like.
it is OK because it allows private business owners to act according to their beliefs on a legal basis _if_ they decide to do so... now I bet that the market will make sure that nobody (from those groups so dear to you) will actually suffer, because most of those private business owners will put their wallets above their inner thoughts (and as a good person, you shall believe that most of those people are not going to even think poorly about discriminating anybody - have faith in humanity, eh ?)... so fear not, Diego...
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 03:50:17 pm by AlterEgo »
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #293 on: April 03, 2015, 03:50:59 pm »

it is OK because if allows private business owners to act according to their beliefs on a legal basis _if_ they decide to do so
I see.

Let me propose a thought experiment.
Let's imagine two opposite worlds: RIGHT-WORLD, where any private business can legally discriminate anybody for any reason they like.
In LEFT-WORLD, instead, any kind of discrimination of any type for any reason in illegal.

What do you think is the best world of the two?




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NancyP

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #294 on: April 03, 2015, 03:55:38 pm »

Slobodan, do you have a citation for that supposed arson threat statement? Indy Star and WISH-8 TV are silent on this.  Is this statement the common radio host stunt of featuring a pull-it-out-of-nether-region unconfirmed rumor from an uncited source. I don't take much of what goes on on commercial radio as reliable two-sourced news. Commercial radio is not in the news business, it is in the advertising business, and will feature anything that is entertaining.

Maybe the pizzeria owner was trying to get some free advertising for the pizzeria, maybe the owner wanted to get her opinion on TV, maybe the owner sees that people are willing to give her money without asking for the pizza and is sitting on her hands while the donations are flowing, instead of opening up the pizzeria again. Who knows?  If all she wanted was to get her opinion on TV, she certainly was naive in not realizing that yes, being interviewed about a controversial subject can result in more  interviews from a wide variety of sources (ordinary newspapers, Christian syndicated media, etc) and suck up an inordinate amount of time and energy, and that yes, random people are likely to jump on the Facebook and aggregated review pages and post likes and pans. I do feel sorry for her if she was sincere and naive about being on TV, rather than gaming the system for free publicity. Anonymity on the internet does tend to promote rudeness in  people. Any woman who posts as a woman on controversial subjects in a non-moderated forum has had a perfect stranger wish rape on her, if not threaten to do it himself. I stopped posting on certain USENET alt. boards for that reason, way back in the day. Too tiresome.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #295 on: April 03, 2015, 04:00:05 pm »

Slobodan, do you have a citation for that supposed arson threat statement?...

CNN article here
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 04:06:26 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #296 on: April 03, 2015, 04:32:48 pm »

CNN article here
Looks like some idiots get your attention much more than an entire town:

Quote
Garrett hung a sign in his store front letting everyone know they are welcome. The sign reads “We do not discriminate, if you are a customer, you are a valued customer. Please come again.”

“We don't care if you are pink, white, purple, orange it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you do in your own free time. If you are a homosexual or heterosexual it just doesn't matter," said Garrett.

Throughout town, both visitors and residents like Steven Zehner share Garrett's open attitude.


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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #297 on: April 03, 2015, 04:36:00 pm »

Looks like some idiots get your attention...

Indeed... You got my attention too... initially.

Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #298 on: April 03, 2015, 04:39:42 pm »

Indeed... You got my attention too... initially.
And where did you get the talent to spot idiots? House mirrors?
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #299 on: April 03, 2015, 04:47:02 pm »

Name-calling aside, don't you know think that boycotting anti-gay businnes is quite a good deal?
This pizzeria got almost 500.000 USD in a few days.

Don't you think now that more boycott should be put in place?
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